VoA - Nigerians React Angrily to Execution of Nigerian in SG
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whether singapore should scrap the death penalty should be decided by the perople of singapore and foreigners have no rights to say or intervene as we are an independant nation.
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They should be out lashing out at drug traffickers and drug lords instead of reacting angrily to Singapore's methods of handling drug traffickers. Singapore didn't ask him to come in .
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cfm this poor sod will be dead
but if he was an american citizen,it may be a different story 
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Did that chap went through a fair trial? If yes and the judge found him guilty, he should obey Singapore law and face the death sentence. Stop being a bugger and ask for pardon for drug trafficking.
But we are also human ane have a soft side for each other, so as what was done in the Australian case, allow that chap's family members to come to Singapore to bid their last farewell. -
I do not like the death penalty, but it is a necessary evil given how much damage drugs have taken. But as someone raised this certiainly needs to be looked into:
“Singapore cannot reverse the burden and require a defendant to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn’t know that he was carrying drugs.”
I mean we are dealing with life and death here, making presumptions "just to be safe" and hang people on it.
The appeal court rejected the trial court’s suggestion that it was irrelevant whether Mr. Tochi had knowledge of what he was carrying but still upheld his conviction, reasoning that under Singapore law such knowledge is presumed until the defendant rebuts that presumption “on a balance of probabilities” and not merely by raising reasonable doubt.
One method of smuggling involves using an unsuspecting person to act as the drug mule, typically by slipping some drugs into his luggage and have him carry it risk free (to the real smugglers at least) across customs before picking it up again from him. Such smugglers rely on careless or trusting people to pull this off.
Hanging a person who has no knowledge of if we was really smuggling drugs does little to stop the drug trade... at most the loss to the real traffackers is in the drugs that were discovered. At worst we are hanging a person for being careless or trusting.
The law needs to be tough on drugs, but at the same time the law must also be applied fairly and squarely. Have we sent some people to the gallows who were unwitting victims of the drug trade? Made a double victim by our legal system? Surely more can be done to protect these people. -
remember the cocaine ring busted several years ago where all the people busted were high flyers or elites?
they escaped the death penalty because the drugs were sent for filtration and after all 'impurities' were removed, the pure cocaine weighed less than needed for the death penalty. so the guy escaped hanging, and was sentenced to 15 months jail. which was later reduced to 8 months.
several others caught were released on bail, applied for permission to travel overseas to 'attend to personal matters', 'seek medical treatment', blah blah blah, then jumped bail and simply never returned to singapore.
if an american was caught, this is the treatment you can expect. -
Another good observation from you....Originally posted by nismoS132:remember the cocaine ring busted several years ago where all the people busted were high flyers or elites?
they escaped the death penalty because the drugs were sent for filtration and after all 'impurities' were removed, the pure cocaine weighed less than needed for the death penalty. so the guy escaped hanging, and was sentenced to 15 months jail. which was later reduced to 8 months.
several others caught were released on bail, applied for permission to travel overseas to 'attend to personal matters', 'seek medical treatment', blah blah blah, then jumped bail and simply never returned to singapore.
if an american was caught, this is the treatment you can expect.
Have we so far hear or read about an American hanging??
I don't recall..... -
either none of them were stupid enough to carry drugs here, have been hanged secretly with the approval of US authorities or sent back to be tried. afterall, a healthy number of US states do impose the death penalty and drugs aren't as widespread a problem in the US as compared to places like amsterdam and australia, where pot is legal and popular.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Another good observation from you....
Have we so far hear or read about an American hanging??
I don't recall..... -
All I know is that I known a few americans in Australia and they have to fly thru Singapore.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Another good observation from you....
Have we so far hear or read about an American hanging??
I don't recall.....
They keep clean for 4 weeks just in case they get picked for drug testing.
Americans I met are very well versed with the drug laws in Singapore although some think that drug addicts will be hung as well. -
but there probably won't be many american smugglers. south american or mexican maybe.
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So what do you guys think, about the probability of someone being hung, because someone planted drugs in his or her luggage??
Is there some kind fo "safety catch" or "safety Lock" like those featured on hand guns, that prevents accidental firing?
I mean, what if one day, someone plants a packet of heroin in your luggage and you get caught?? End of the story just like that??
It would be senseless indeed.... -
In fact a perfect murder might be to slip a kilo of drugs into your target's luggage and have him get caught at customs... the courts will be so focused on the drugs and the "balance of probabilities" that they will totally miss out how the drugs got there in the first place... which often is irrelevant to the case.
I seriously hope there are proper checks and balances to prevent this from happening.
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Our laws completely miss out the importance of the intent and cause of the drugs' presence, and insteads pins the guilt automatically based on mere presence.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:In fact a perfect murder might be to slip a kilo of drugs into your target's luggage and have him get caught at customs... the courts will be so focused on the drugs and the "balance of probabilities" that they will totally miss out how the drugs got there in the first place... which often is irrelevant to the case.
I seriously hope there are proper checks and balances to prevent this from happening.
Wrong wrong wrong. I wonder how many people have died or will die in the future from this fallacy. -
who give a damn about a drug trafficker.\Originally posted by LazerLordz:Nigerians React Angrily to Execution of Nigerian in Singapore
By Gilbert da Costa
Abuja
27 January 2007
Singapore's execution of a Nigerian convicted of drug trafficking has provoked some angry reactions in Nigeria. Gilbert da Costa in Abuja reports for VOA, Nigerians are particularly upset that even their president's intervention could not save the young Nigerian.
Nigeria's leading human rights groups, politicians and opposition figures have issued a strong denunciation of the hanging Friday of 21-year-old Iwuchukwu Tochi.
Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo and international human rights groups had appealed for clemency.
Dubem Onyia, Nigeria 's former deputy foreign minister, says Nigeria should break diplomatic ties with Singapore. "The Nigerian government has a right to protect the interest of Nigerians abroad, and should immediately severe diplomatic relationship with Singapore. In any case, we don't have a Singaporean Embassy in Nigeria. If Singapore can treat Nigerians the way they treated us, the best thing is for us to severe diplomatic relations with them. It is as simple as that," he said.
Legal experts in Nigeria have said the trial process was not fair. But Peter Egon, an international relations expert in Lagos, says the conviction was carried out under Singapore's laws and cannot, therefore, be faulted. "Somebody, who leaves his country, goes to a foreign country, and he breaks the law there, and the law of the land says, once you carry drugs you are killed, so, the law has taken its course, in my opinion," he said.
The Nigerian was arrested at Singapore's Changi Airport in November 2004, carrying more than 700 grams of heroin.
Under Singapore's tough anti-drug laws, the death penalty is mandatory for anyone caught with more than 15 grams of the drug.
Another African, convicted of abetting in the offense, was also executed.
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http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-01-27-voa21.cfm?rss=africa
u broke the law, u pay the price -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
how to prove clear and convincing evidence leaving no room for an alternative explanation of the facts?
UN expert calls on Singapore not to hang Nigerian on drug charges, says breaches rights
1/25/2007 1:24:40 AM - (DPM)
An independent United Nations human rights expert today called on Singapore not to proceed with tomorrowÂ’s planned hanging of a Nigerian for heroin trafficking, charging that the island stateÂ’s Government has failed to ensure respect for relevant legal safeguards under international standards.
“It is a fundamental human right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty,” UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions Philip Alston said in a statement, noting that the trial judge ruled that although there was no direct evidence that Iwuchukwu Amara Tochi knew the capsules contained heroin ignorance did not exculpate him.
“The standard accepted by the international community is that capital punishment may be imposed only when the guilt of the person charged is based upon clear and convincing evidence leaving no room for an alternative explanation of the facts,” Mr. Alston added. [b]“Singapore cannot reverse the burden and require a defendant to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn’t know that he was carrying drugs.”
The appeal court rejected the trial court’s suggestion that it was irrelevant whether Mr. Tochi had knowledge of what he was carrying but still upheld his conviction, reasoning that under Singapore law such knowledge is presumed until the defendant rebuts that presumption “on a balance of probabilities” and not merely by raising reasonable doubt.
Mr. Alston also said that Singapore law making the death penalty mandatory for drug trafficking was inconsistent with international human rights standards, because it keeps judges from considering all of the factors relevant to determining whether a death sentence would be permissible in a capital case.
Mr TochiÂ’s co-defendant, Okele Nelson Malachy of South Africa, was convicted of having abetted Mr. TochiÂ’s offence and was also sentenced to death. There has reportedly been no date set for his execution, but it would raise similar grave human rights issues, Mr. Alston stressed.
“One of the tasks given to me by the UN Human Rights Council is to monitor states’ respect for those safeguards in order to protect the human rights of those facing the death penalty,” he said. “In the case of Iwuchukwu Amara Tochi, the Government of Singapore has failed to ensure respect for the relevant legal safeguards. Under the circumstances, the execution should not proceed.”
Special Rapporteurs are unpaid, independent experts who report to the Council.
http://www.dpm.ae/doc_cont.asp?id=108959
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IMHO, this is one aspect of our legal system that needs to be changed. It is inherently unfair. [/b]
he just need to say he don't know what he is carrying, can anyone prove that?
ensure respect for the relevant legal safeguards? does he meant UN safeguard? who ever follow UN guideline in the first place -
compare that one worthless life to the tens or hundreds his drug will ruined, i think it is a fair trade-offOriginally posted by maurizio13:I am totally against the taking of someone's life, it's just not right. -
What if you really were the hapless victim of one such event? I'm sure you will see things quite differently in an instant. The law is supposed to protect the innocent, and in this case we are not so sure if it really does so. Hanging the innocent does little to stop the real drug dealers and runners from plying their trade. We are the ones to lose the most from such a thing.Originally posted by Kenashi:how to prove clear and convincing evidence leaving no room for an alternative explanation of the facts?
he just need to say he don't know what he is carrying, can anyone prove that?
ensure respect for the relevant legal safeguards? does he meant UN safeguard? who ever follow UN guideline in the first place
If a dude was caught with drugs taped to his body and stuff... it's kinda hard to deny knowledge rite?
However for drugs found in a person's luggage, there are still ways to check. It is possible to run background checks on that guy, find out his contacts, and see if he really has anything to do with it or was simply an innocent and unknowing drug mule. At the end of the day reasonable doubt must be proven beyond... as opposed to this "balance of probabilities" which is as good as saying "we're not totally sure but let's just hang him to be sure".
Also even if he is really guilty and gets free because he managed to raise reasonable doubt, he's pretty much a dead man walking as he would have to find a way to pay off the drugs that he lost when he got caught. The drug mafia does not look too kindly on people who lose their goods and don't pay. Chances are either he will do more runs to pay off his debt (hence making it possible of him to get caught again), or simply be made to do many other things that will invariably end him up on the wrong side of the law. -
Thw law is clear that the penalty for drug offences is dependent on the weight of the pure drug, whether it is cannabis, morphine or heroin. In the Nigerian case, the amount of heroin trafficked would have tobe the pure amount, minus all impurities as well.Originally posted by nismoS132:remember the cocaine ring busted several years ago where all the people busted were high flyers or elites?
they escaped the death penalty because the drugs were sent for filtration and after all 'impurities' were removed, the pure cocaine weighed less than needed for the death penalty. so the guy escaped hanging, and was sentenced to 15 months jail. which was later reduced to 8 months.
several others caught were released on bail, applied for permission to travel overseas to 'attend to personal matters', 'seek medical treatment', blah blah blah, then jumped bail and simply never returned to singapore.
if an american was caught, this is the treatment you can expect.
Know the law before you open your big mouth. I -
This should put a stop to those neverending nigerian scams.
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That's coz Mr Fay went back home and taught them a thing or two.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Another good observation from you....
Have we so far hear or read about an American hanging??
I don't recall..... -
Originally posted by Hogzilla:
Then what if we piss the american off and then we turn to china.. suddenly end up.. one china men smuggle drug also how? do we still hang the person?
[b]IF Singapore judges have the balls to mete out death penalty to a American drug trafficker and all these reaction kicks in, the government's reply will be something like this, "We are sorry that the hanging has cause disturbance to anyone" "We are sorry about wat wat wat". Aiya, the standard replies of the government lah. We see these when the Thai junta did all those funny funny things.
Singapore might walk closer with China IF all these thing kicks in.
Just my two cent worth.
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china sends thousands of people to the firing squad a year for the most minor of offenses, they wouldnt bother if you ahng a couple. even if u deport them back they're just gonna end up like a block of swiss cheese.Originally posted by zheshi:Then what if we piss the american off and then we turn to china.. suddenly end up.. one china men smuggle drug also how? do we still hang the person? -
First, Congress will not do that. They will break the terms of our trade agreements and WTO rules. Their business concerns will override their rhetoric.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Let's toss this out to everyone for discussion.
Scenario: Let's say it was not an Nigerian national, but an American hung for this. Left-wing elements in Congress push for suspension of trade ties and our FTA and successfully do so through a slim majority despite counter-moves by our lobbyists in Washington. What will our be initial reaction be? What should our long term objectives be?
Let's keep it civil and academic.
Second, which hypocritical US politician can stand up in public pushing for this policy when Texas continues to send Americans to the death chamber? Are they going to expell Texas from the Union next?
Long term objective? Buy US-made electric chairs
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i think it is a matter of time when an latino american passport holder is going to cross the border and get caught. And I think SG Gov understand it is going to happen.
I think the rule of Law will apply. for reason of self determination especially for a small country that need to remind all the big countries it is a country of its own.
State department would understand the legal proceeding and would arm twist and down grade relationship. Right wing democrat would raise human rights in Singapore. Domestics usa is a mix bag, interest group will make noise it is news worthy to make headlines.
Central and South America are emotional people if it is their own countryman they might protest.
but I think at the end of the day I think SG gov will still proceed with Hanging the drug trafficker. -
Quite a number of you think it is right to hang him because it is the law here, but there's another perspective to this as well.
What if a singaporean woman in saudi gets thrown into jail for not covering her head or because she was caught driving a car, or she was stoned to death because people suspected her of having an affair with a local?
What then? Since you people say that foreigners should respect the law, that means singaporeans should respect the laws in other countries as well? To hell with justice, it doesn't matter, the law and is the law and we should just sit around and wait for people to be jailed, hanged and stoned to death.