Originally posted by mfscrewu:1.OK,maybe i'm wrong.I'll put it this way,MOST of the isrealis r legimate military target so long as they belonged to the armed forces which includes reservists.(Does it make a difference when killing a group of "terrorists" when they r eating out in a restaurant n when they r preparing a sucide mission? In uniforms or not, most isrealis r soldiers)
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1.Your notion of every israelis is a legitimate military target is absolutely wrong.
2.some of the victims are new immigrants
3.Humiliation...maybe. But maybe you should examine the real cause of this instead of blaming everything on the israelis?
4.why is it that the arabs does not want the state of israel to exist at all. It was the reluctance of the arab world to make peace with Israel that causes all these.
5.Just as you said that these militant palestine stood up against invaders. Israeli soldiers are doing their job of protecting their home from being bombed by these brain washed murderers.
6.How would you like it, if soldiers go into a cafe in palestine and packed loads of C4 and then set it off while people are inside and then proclaimed that it is done in the name of protecting their homeland?[/B]
Do u think all the "targets" of the IDF r armed or in uniform? Pls dun have a double standard n give me "but they r terrorists" crap. Things have to work on both sides.Anyway i think this is a very dirty war.No one side is absolutely "pure" though my sympathy lies on the palestinian sides...Originally posted by Shotgun:Raider, u grossly mistaken what a "military" target means. To be qualified a soldier or combatant, first, the person has to be ARMED. Second, to be considered openly as a soldier, u have to be in uniform. As far as Singaporean men are concerned, they are civillians when they are unarmed and out of uniform.
Finally, the land DOES NOT belong to the Palestinians. Their rightful land is in SOUTHERN SYRIA. Syrians evicted them a Long time ago... (Ancient history.) As a matter of fact, most Palestinians are actually southern Syrians.
Whatever claims might be laid, we have to look at the facts. The land known as Israel today, was developed wholly by the Jews. The Jews have always existed in the region, flourishing where others failed. They made great agricultural growth on whatever land they owned. In the hands of the Palestinians, the land would still be as bare as it was long ago. Why should the Israelis give up ANY portion of land they have Developed to ANYONE at all?
Our forefathers built Singapore to what it is today. I'd happily shoot anybody who tries to take it away from us, legitimate claim or not. That includes Malaysian suckers who keep thinking that Singapore is part of Malaysia.
Then u better ask the Isrealis to brush up on international law on what the definition of a CIVILIAN/NON-COMBATANT is!Originally posted by No Frill:Amen to that shotgun.
And Raider, before you mouth off about what a combatant is, I'd suggest you brush up on your international law on what the definition of a lawful / unlawful combatant is.
Then u better ask the Isrealis to brush up on international law on what the definition of a CIVILIAN/NON-COMBATANT is!Originally posted by RAIDER:[QUOTE]Originally posted by No Frill:
[b]Amen to that shotgun.
And Raider, before you mouth off about what a combatant is, I'd suggest you brush up on your international law on what the definition of a lawful / unlawful combatant is.
Originally posted by RAIDER:They did... under Mohammed Hitler.... 6 million jews kaput.... how many millions have the palestinians lost thus far?? i do know that Jordan managed to wipe 35,000 palestinians to heaven... have the isrealis come close?
Do u think all the "targets" of the IDF r armed or in uniform? Pls dun have a double standard n give me "but they r terrorists" crap. Things have to work on both sides.Anyway i think this is a very dirty war.No one side is absolutely "pure" though my sympathy lies on the palestinian sides...
**** 1... What constitute a uniform??? a common dress code... AKA... commonality... In some poor countries... Uniform is a luxury... thus no uniform... but something close to combatant clothings... such as camo... But.. this basis is insufficient... as the key to commonality is not so much on uniform... BUT a UNIFIED command structure... this would imply all military organization including the IDF and the PLA or the hamas and even the al-qaeda.... whether they got nice nice uniform or not. The uniform is merely a representative of the ORGANIZATION under a UNIFIED command structure.
**** 2. there are many many organization... some with uniforms like scouts and red cross... even doctors and nurses and certain professions all have uniforms... BUT only one group of uniform personell carry ARMS... thus the key note is Arms and organization...
**** IDF is an organization.. and it carries arms... HAMAS, PLA is an organization and they also carry arms...
**** Civilians including those in uniforms but do not carry arms... cannot therefore be considered as combatants. Civilians carrying Arms on the other hand... is considered in times of war as combatants.
Look at their plight for the past 40yrs till now...Isrealis haven't seen nothing yet compared to them.
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Then u better ask the Isrealis to brush up on international law on what the definition of a CIVILIAN/NON-COMBATANT is!Originally posted by RAIDER:[QUOTE]Originally posted by No Frill:
[b]Amen to that shotgun.
And Raider, before you mouth off about what a combatant is, I'd suggest you brush up on your international law on what the definition of a lawful / unlawful combatant is.
I cannot agree with U more mfscrewu. IT is justified to bomb children and women whoa re defenseless and at home as long as U are doing it under the Israeli mandate. In fact as long as U are under that and US supports U...even the UN can be refused a chance to probe the issue in Jenin. I love this....Everything is sooooo fair here.Originally posted by mfscrewu:Suicide bombers are nothing but murderers. I am sorry that I have to say that but that's the truth. If the so called "freedom" fighters attack a military installation during fighting, that's legitimate. It is absolutely wrong to kill civilians while they are just sitting in a cafe enjoying a meal.
Have it ever occur to U that these palestines have no place called home and they are trying to find some or believe in some happiness when they shift to Jenin or West Bank or Hebron? Choose to believe it or not...as long as U are palestine, the Israeli's will view U with a different eye, there is no need to classified. And of course based on your line of argument, it is equally correct to drop bombs on a people, who don;t even have a airforce to being with, and hence killing children and women...very justified indeed.
Your notion of every israelis is a legitimate military target is absolutely wrong. Have it ever occurred to you that some of the victims are new immigrants and some of them have not even served their national service? How would the world react if Israel start to classify every palestine as terrorist?
Read this excellent article given to us by Shotgun before commenting on this
Humiliation...maybe. But maybe you should examine the real cause of this instead of blaming everything on the israelis? If the palestine have every right to their country, why is it that the arabs does not want the state of israel to exist at all. It was the reluctance of the arab world to make peace with Israel that causes all these.
And Palestines doing the role of protecting their families against government sanctioned killing of whom unfortuately for the soldiers in IDF, they receive the beating end...while Sharon admires his prized trophies one by one.
Just as you said that these militant palestine stood up against invaders. Israeli soldiers are doing their job of protecting their home from being bombed by these brain washed murderers.
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How would you like it, if soldiers go into a cafe in palestine and packed loads of C4 and then set it off while people are inside and then proclaimed that it is done in the name of protecting their homeland?
Looks like u r really hard up on history lessons? 2002-40=1962! The 2nd world war ended decades b4 tt!!! During this time frame(Last 40yrs), its the Isrealis tt benefitted from every war they've wage.Originally posted by tripwire:They did... under Mohammed Hitler.... 6 million jews kaput.... how many millions have the palestinians lost thus far?? i do know that Jordan managed to wipe 35,000 palestinians to heaven... have the isrealis come close?
Hey tripwire....certain things should be said and certain things should not be written. To link Hilter with the muslim is utter disregard for the feelings of rational muslims every where.Originally posted by tripwire:They did... under Mohammed Hitler.... 6 million jews kaput.... how many millions have the palestinians lost thus far?? i do know that Jordan managed to wipe 35,000 palestinians to heaven... have the isrealis come close?
Looks like u r really hard up on history lessons? 2002-40=1962! The 2nd world war ended decades b4 tt!!! During this time frame(Last 40yrs), its the Isrealis tt benefitted from every war they've wage.Originally posted by RAIDER:[QUOTE]Originally posted by tripwire:
[b] They did... under Mohammed Hitler.... 6 million jews kaput.... how many millions have the palestinians lost thus far?? i do know that Jordan managed to wipe 35,000 palestinians to heaven... have the isrealis come close?
what can i say?? isnt hitlers' view in tadem with the arabs view??Originally posted by Rudin:Hey tripwire....certain things should be said and certain things should not be written. To link Hilter with the muslim is utter disregard for the feelings of rational muslims every where.
Please be responsible in your postings
I am a pig??? may allah forgive your ignorance... all live is created by allah... but in the eye of HOLY HOLY (you know who).... he thinks that Allah must have gone crazy to create a talking pig!!Originally posted by RAIDER:Yes! what another RACIST remark from this RACIST PIG...Our harmonious Multi-racial/cultural environment have no room for ppl like u!
Its ppl like U tt will bring the downfall of our nation one day...
It is true that this is a free forum. But you should exercise responsibility when you type those statements. To link all Arabs or muslims to Hilter is utter disrespect for muslims throughout the world. What the Arabs want to do, it is their purpose and reason. To link the entire muslim population in the world shows immaturity on your part. Tripwire, I believe you are above this. Please do not degrade yourself by writing such stuff again.Originally posted by tripwire:what can i say?? isnt hitlers' view in tadem with the arabs view??
HItler went on to murder 6 million jews...
Arabs on the other hand want to push isreals current 6 million jewish population into the sea....
so ... who is the one at fault here? me... that simply view my opinion... or the muslims in the middle east who went as far as waging more then 3 wars with millions of man with the intention of pushing an entire race into the sea.....!!???
If mohammed is alive.... he will probably be the first in line to hang arafat alive.... but... maybe not.... who knows... everyone think that they are more holy then the next fella.... so be it lah... the world will end in their 'holy' hand....
I am just being open per se... to come forth the truth .. to speak my heart.... if that hurts you... then i think you should be asking why so many people felt the same way tripwire felt... rather then attempt to silence us.... with your threats.... on upsetting racial harmony....
friendship... is from honest dealing... if i lie to you... who stands to loose more...???
face it... the whole muslim world... including many fellow singaporean muslims felt that isrealis 'deserve to be pushed into the sea'Originally posted by CenturionMBT:It is true that this is a free forum. But you should exercise responsibility when you type those statements. To link all Arabs or muslims to Hilter is utter disrespect for muslims throughout the world. What the Arabs want to do, it is their purpose and reason. To link the entire muslim population in the world shows immaturity on your part. Tripwire, I believe you are above this. Please do not degrade yourself by writing such stuff again.
singapore also have such 'humanitarian funds'... its just that... they collect it in the mosque.... rather than in public....Originally posted by Shotgun:Ya ya ya.... Palestinians claims Israeli massacre in Jenin. When UN investigation team arrives, they find no trace of any kind of mass killings. It only proves that certain news media really likes to play on this topic. Of course, there will always be people like *AHEM* who believes in a conspiracy at the highest level, covering up all forms of killings.
Are all palestinians combatants? No. But as long as they carry a weapon, I believe the IDF has the right to waste every single one of them mother f*ckin Terrorists. Of course, then the hyped up media of certain countries will start bitching about IDF killing of innoncent young men, women, and kids with AK-47s and C4s strapped to their backs.
Was in M'sia a couple of weeks ago, saw the "Palestinian Humanitarian" fund being publicly raised on the New Straits Times. While the Malaysian politicians are playing so hard on how pitiful them Palestinian terrorists are, and how cruel the oppressive jews are, I couldnt help but notice the amount raised. 4000Ringgit. That should fund quite a bit of handgrenades, explosives and other weapons. But as a humanitarian fund, I believe 4000ringgit just aint gonna save anybody.
I thought they really had a genuine belief that the Palestinians were under great oppression, and thats why they made so much noise about it. After lookin at the pitiful fund, they are nothing but full of hot air.
Yes yes... not all the Palestinian people are combatants. But if them terrorists decide to duck in between a few of these non-combatant, there is really no choice but to shoot, and hope them "innoncent" bystanders don't get shot. Same deal in any war. If someone decides to plant a surface to air weapon beside a hospital or a mosque, then, I'm just too darned sorry about the collateral damage I'm about the cause.
Your logic is obviously flawed here. First thing, be it any race or religon, as long as one member of the community is attacked, other members of the communitiy will stand up to defend them. In this case here, muslims generally view the attack on Palestine as the attack on one of their own people, but their degre of response will largely determine what kind of Islamic teachings they choose to believe in.Originally posted by tripwire:
Where on earth have u got yur info from??? Till date, no UN officials were ever let in to Jenin by the isrealis to conduct the checks after numerous negotiations!!!Originally posted by Shotgun:Ya ya ya.... Palestinians claims Israeli massacre in Jenin. When UN investigation team arrives, they find no trace of any kind of mass killings. It only proves that certain news media really likes to play on this topic. Of course, there will always be people like *AHEM* who believes in a conspiracy at the highest level, covering up all forms of killings.
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**** wat... ??? so.... if you mosque dont collect such donation... it automatically imply that other mosque also dont have such collection drive... and by the same logic... my house has no mosquito tonight... therefore all houses in singapore should also be free of mosquitoes..... wow... such grey matters is really.... grey?Originally posted by Rudin:Your logic is obviously flawed here.
**** oh.... sure... anyone would disagreed with your view... obviously have flawed logic.... is such a simplistic logic conclusion flawed as well....
First thing, be it any race or religon, as long as one member of the community is attacked, other members of the communitiy will stand up to defend them. In this case here, muslims generally view the attack on Palestine as the attack on one of their own people, but their degre of response will largely determine what kind of Islamic teachings they choose to believe in.
**** did isreal declare war on all muslims....??? if not... how come the oversentivity of the islamic cohort???
**** and why the double standard??? isnt isrealis humans as well??? or are muslim humans MORE human than others???
**** how come... no such anger is shown when Muslims were killing muslims?? such as when jordan killed 35,000 palestinians, iraqi murder of countless civilian kurdish minority... the war crimes of the saddam hussein when he use chemical weapons on iran??? where are the muslims brothers... when kuwaiti babies were slaughtered in the hospital by iraqi invading army???
**** why isit seems to many that the christian west are the ones who always ends up saving the muslims as in bosnia by NATO, that afgans from the talibans and kuwait from the iraqis?? mayhaps... the west have intervened for reason of their own concern.. but by their very actions... they saved many muslims while placing their own men in harms way.... and how did the muslim world responded.... welll.... look at the US WTC...
Tripwire, the koran does not preach violence. In fact, it is people like Osama and a few other fantics who perverted the koran teachings. A sin of a few should not warrrent condemation for the whole communitiy. Take an analogy, suppose the chinese population face genocide, whou u not, as a chinese, feel the pain of your felow brethan? It is just as simple as this.
**** few??? according to the book clash of civilization.... the muslims world are involved in almost 75% of all the current on going war running hot in the world.... if that is few.... i would fear to see... what you would mean by majority..... there are wars waged across the entire northern half of africa... in sudan alone... hundreds of thoudsands of christians and muslims have died in an endless war.... (and yet you seem more concerned about the palestinians rather then other muslims who are dying by the thoudsands.. elsewhere)
**** about your analogy of the chinese people... dont waste your time... chinese has been killing chinese since time long long time ago.....
**** there are more chinese then all the muslims combined in the whole world... and if the chinese are attacked... they can muster an army 296 million men strong... and if they include womens as well.... that number can easily hit half a billion troops.... and if the muslim wanna try to take on the non-muslims... just the indians and chinese would have been far too many for the muslims to handle....
Furthermore as for your allegations that funds are collected in mosques here. I beg your pardon. What you have written here is the most irresponsible shit I have even seen in my life. I do not know how the hell you ever got your education. But please, when writing such stuff, use the grey matter of yours a little. If there is no evidence, do not presume. It makes you no better from a drunkard or irresponsible chap who sprews garbage from his mouth.