IDF in Jenin
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Tripwire...I did not say whether I support or do not support the Palestines or not. Do not put words in my mouth.
I demand an apology on this.
I am just stating that your statements are irresponsible in comparing muslims to Hilter and linking mosque donations to terrorist action. What you have written clearly does not reflect racial or religious sensitivity on your part. The clash of civillizations are inevitable and these are due to racial fault lines. Please read carefully. If you are refering to pg 254...i suggest you read carefully before arguing the 75 % point.
As for your WTC point...i have pointed and shall point out again that this is done by a small minority who has been brain washed with the wrong doctrines. To link a small group with all muslims is wrong.
I hope you seriously reconsider your points. -
Originally posted by Sudaimiki:Do U think it is possible to wipe away 40 years of mistrust in just a matter of 5 years?
Nope, besides land, there also a water issue where Israel have the upper hand. The mistrust between Singapore and stupid(g) Malaysia could never end.
U claim that everything was done to make the Israelis look bad....have U all ever try considering yourself in the Palestine shoes? When face with tanks and infantry trying to destroy your homeland, would U all not try means and ways to defend your home? So what a shipment of rockets where found? Can it fight the best pilots in the world trying to reduce your home to rubble?
Malaysians are trying very hard to make Singapore lives like palestinian. Although there wouldn't be such a day, I sincerely understand such acts from the palestinian. Well, I, personally would like to deliver a nerve gas bomb to Mahathir. Why can't both Governments consider this? When ever a number of innocent civilians esp. children and women are murdered in an "terrorist" act. Send a team of snipers to kill the same number civilian incl. children and women.
U all claimed that I was biased. But looking at Your post, there hasn't been a single moment U all been condemning Palestine again and again. I presented facts, but U all chose to view it under a pro-Israel's stance.
Malaysia see Singapore as 'Israel'. There's nothing wrong protecting your own kind
Suppose Singapore is invaded one day, won;t U all do the same? Won;t U all hide behind rubble and kill one more person trying to invade your nation?
You mean tactical movement? Of course, all armies are trained in this way.
These people, viewed under their circumstances are freedom fighters. Who wants war? Who doesn't want a peaceful enviroment to allow their children to grow in? But unless Israel and their allies PRo-right US stop all their double sided ways...there will be no peace.
Malaysia wants war! Malaysians Do Not want a peaceful enviroment to bring up these idiotic childrens! Malaysia had been using double standard on Singapore! And yes you are right, there are no true PEACE between Singapore and bloody Malaysia. Unless these maggots of Malaysia disturbing us with those retarded acts.
Sudaimiki formerly known as FuckSpore4ever -
Originally posted by Rudin:
Minority indeed... who do you think will believe you???
Tripwire...I did not say whether I support or do not support the Palestines or not. Do not put words in my mouth.
[b]I demand an apology on this.
**** my apologies is worth nothing to you... my apologies will not or cannot be used as grounds of your position in this isreali palestinian conflict...
**** just a word of apology from me... cannot in anyway affect your true views nor your position on any matters... the truth is in your heart... you know yourself best....
**** the important thing is you... you must face yourself... ask your own heart... where do you stand.... tripwire's view of you... is little more then a view of a person.... tripwire do not... and cannot shape your heart nor change your mind of who you are, what you are, how you feel and how you see the world as it is...
**** so.... grow up.....
I am just stating that your statements are irresponsible in comparing muslims to Hilter and linking mosque donations to terrorist action. What you have written clearly does not reflect racial or religious sensitivity on your part. The clash of civillizations are inevitable and these are due to racial fault lines. Please read carefully. If you are refering to pg 254...i suggest you read carefully before arguing the 75 % point.
**** if my linking of arab muslims to hitler is irresponsible... pray tell... what is the difference between hitler having killed over 6 million jews when compared to the arabs desire to push the entire population of isreal ... 6 million jews as well... into the sea???
**** obviously.. not all will agreed or have to agreed with my views... but my views didnt pop out of the sun.... the arabs stands by my views with their incessant attacks against isrealis with both conventional wars and unconventional wars.... over the last 60 years and the end is no where in sight....
**** and if the arabs have proven anything to date... it is the fact; that the desire to see the end of isreal has caused several if not all the arab nations to mobilised millions of man, weapons and diplomatic effort (such as the oil embargo in 1973) to force the world's hand to eliminate an entire race!! such mobilization of resouces and man... cannot be the work of the MINORITY.... do you think the isrealis will believe you?? i wont... much less the isrealis.....
**** if mohammed is alive... and if koran is as you claim... a peaceful religion... do you think he will be sad or will he cheer??? and if you are a muslim... will you stand forth to defend islam by reprimanding those radicals???
As for your WTC point...i have pointed and shall point out again that this is done by a small minority who has been brain washed with the wrong doctrines. To link a small group with all muslims is wrong.
I hope you seriously reconsider your points.[/B] -
I guess the key point here is the comparison of Hitler to ALL Muslims. While it is largely correct to say that a majority of muslim dislike Jews, its is still not entirely correct to claim the entire Muslim world to be anti-Israel.
The Arab nations, constituting a majority of the Muslim world, may have something against Israel, but there are definitely some that really don't give two-hoots. We ARE living in Singapore, and such issues ARE still *sensitive*.
Anyway, I remember reading somewhere, about a plan calling out to Muslim nations to fund Egypt to crush Israel. If a war like this breaks out, I'm still betting on the Israelis. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
That is my point exactly. Thanks Shotgun for explaining it to him.
[B]I guess the key point here is the comparison of Hitler to ALL Muslims. While it is largely correct to say that a majority of muslim dislike Jews, its is still not entirely correct to claim the entire Muslim world to be anti-Israel.
The Arab nations, constituting a majority of the Muslim world, may have something against Israel, but there are definitely some that really don't give two-hoots. We ARE living in Singapore, and such issues ARE still *sensitive*.
[B] -
if this is the only reply you can muster against my position and raised points... you are truely disappointing....Originally posted by Rudin:That is my point exactly. Thanks Shotgun for explaining it to him.
well... should i take your lack of challenge as a sign of admission to my points... or should i take it that you have accepted my POV??
nontheless... it does not matter.... what must come will come...
Thank you for supporting Isreal... with your words..... -
Tripwire, I have never disputed with you your position on Israel. In fact, I do not condone sucide bombings on children and women. All I wanted to point out is that, it was wrong to link all muslims to evils like Hilter. A few black sheep should not implicate all. Even 99% are bad but there is still one 1 % which are rational and willing to accept good arguments, it still does not justify any group criticizing the 1% because of the wrong that the 99% have done.Originally posted by tripwire:if this is the only reply you can muster against my position and raised points... you are truely disappointing....
well... should i take your lack of challenge as a sign of admission to my points... or should i take it that you have accepted my POV??
nontheless... it does not matter.... what must come will come...
Thank you for supporting Isreal... with your words.....
And no, I have not accepted your point of view. It is too extreme for me. But to each his own. I choose to believe in peaceful co-existance between moderate muslims and other communitities in the world, while you are entitled to your own opinions.
Anyway, If you want to contest your claims about Israel, search for Sudaimiki or RAIDER. They are more interested in that aspect. -
I think Raider and Sudaimiki are just plain biased in their views towards Israel and there is nothing that we can do to correct that.
But before I waste more time dealing with their insular, anal, pedantic and myopic views here are a couple of parting shots.
1) Nothing justifies the bombing of innocent non-combatants. The ends do not justify the means. If that were the case, and Israel seeks so much to eliminate the palestinian problem, they would have started sterilising all palestinian women to curb future terrorists, or just firebombing all the palestinian areas. No sweat. Just press a button and 'poof' no more terrorists and baby and women killers.
Obviously Israel does not endorse the sort of techniques that the muslim terrorists espouse. True, Israel may have it's 'dirt' too - like its kidon hit squads who assassinate militants and terrorists, but do you see mossad, shin bet or aman blowing up mosques or palestinian restaurants with the SOLE aim of causing widespread civilian casualities? Obviously those muslim terrorists have no hesitation in doing so. It's sick how they can think that by blowing up a cafe they are advancing the cause against the 'zionist' entity. Please. It's a legitimate independent state, and has been since 1948. It has a name and it is Israel.
2) **But the palestinians only have rocks and AKs, how are they expected to fight the Israeli military?**
Well, no one said that fighting was a suitable solution for anything. remember that PLO started off as a terrorist organisation, and in many ways is still one today, refusing to give up its rabid (yes rabid like in referring to the dogs they are) militancy. Many times have come and past where the US / Norway and other 3Ps have tried to broker peace agreements - which has been refused by the palestinians everytime.
If they choose to fight, then that is something that they have chosen. Then don't bloody complain when Israel retaliates. Before those terrorist dogs started hitting Israeli civilians, IDF forces did not enter palestinain cities. No one is complaining if a hamas terrorist assassinates an Israeli officer since that is part of the 'dirt' in an undeclared war. But Israel obviously has the right to hit back if those terrorists hit at defenceless civilians.
The way to peace and acceptance is to put down the arms; and accept peaceful negotiations, to renounce terrorism as a legitimate tool of war and to stop encouraging suicide bombers.
Do you think world opinion will still be with Israel if the palestinains all put down their arms and Israel still continues its military operations? of course not. Israel will suffer huge deficits in its global goodwill. But the more the terrorists sprout out, the more Israel will retaliate.
Everytime the Israelis reacted, it's only cos the terrorists moved first.
3) on the morality of sending children to their deaths and martyrdom - that is the most utter and disgusting SHIT i have every heard in my life. To tell me that the koran, a work of peace and tolerance, can be contextually interpretated to justify suicide bombings (which surprise surprise is illegal) is horrific. to further encourage young children to be martyers for 'the cause' is even more repugnant. children should be in school, building a future for palestine; not training under the watchful eyes of corawdly hamas,fatah and islamic jihad dogs who send them to their deaths and give their parents a home video of their last moments.
No matter how vicious the british were in India, it was Ghandi's passive resistance that won the day and shamed an empire. If the palestinains put down their guns and their damned explosives belts, and Israel still continues acting in its present capacity then yes, i will unequivocally condemn Israel.
But such is not the case. Israel is merely acting in self defence.
I think that Ariel Sharon is a monster and a brutal man and I have no love for him. But to see that it is the muslim terrorists who give him new life everyday is perhaps, ironic.
As I've said in earlier posts, it doesn't matter what the cause is. The moment it involves the killing of innocent non-combatants, then it must be condemned. The IRA lost a lot of support when then started targetting British civilians in the 80s, esp when they tried to blow up the then PM, Thatcher. But the mainstream IRA have since renounced their ways, and initiated political dialogue; and it is only a few splinter groups who still believe in the way of the gun. Look at the peace process in N. Ireland now. It may not be the smoothest one, but the levels of violence has sunk in almost inverse proportions to political progress and achievement.
Yes the palestinians have legitimate greviences, no one is denying that, butso do the Israelis, but the moment the palestinains turn baby killers and terrorists, then they should be wiped out.
If the palestinains want to be taken seriously, then they must talk, not self-destruct (don't mind the pun)
Same goes for the FARC, the shining path, red army, and a whole host of other loony organisations.
I have nothing but support and encouragement for the palestinain cause, but i have nothing but contempt for the palestinians and the terror that they now support and if that is the way that they want to live, by the sword, then by Jehovah, I sincerely hope that Israel scyths every single last one of them down like the terrorist dogs that they are.
Terrorists have no part in a peace process. Pity the moderate palestinians and shame the terrorists. There is no reason to view them as an inseperable whole. -
Ariel Sharon may be a brutal man. Unfortunately, he is facing brutal circumstances. Day after day, week after week, bombs explode here and there, killing innoncent lives. Is there a way he can NOT react in a brutal manner to defend his people? All members of military forces around the world, pledge to defend their country against threats, foreign and internal. Is it not part of the IDF's duty to act against the threat of suicide bombers? Personally, I feel that its about bloody time the IDF acted on these terrorists and their networks.
The IDF siege of Jenin may be a wrong step, but its in the right direction. Rather than sitting back, on the defense against "innoncent" looking people strapped with bombs, they took the offense against the people instigating the suicide bombers. Unfortunately, their siege was fruitless, as the man named "Arafat," was not captured. With the EU backing the Palestinian leader, it is unlikely that such similar raids will take place again.
My opinion on what to do with terrorists like Osama Bin Laden; Jail him in the same cell as Slobodan Milosevic.