1/3 PR graduated in Aussie fails in English
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English of 1/3 PR graduated in Aussie not good enough admitted to U!!
English skills row over foreign students,Adam Morton, Higher Education Reporter,January 29, 2007---http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/english-skills-row-over-foreign-students/2007/01/28/1169919213448.html?page=2One in three overseas students granted permanent residency after graduating from an Australian university does not have good enough English to handle a professional job, a study says.
2.What is the passing rate of SG graduates?
An analysis of government visa testing, the first of its kind, found 34 per cent of 12,116 graduating international students who received permanent residency in 2005-06 did not have the English standard needed to be admitted to university, let alone to be awarded a degree.
For students from China, the fastest growing international student market for Australian universities, the proportion with poor English leapt to 43 per cent.
Published in the journal People and Place, the study asks: how did students with poor English get into an Australian university, and how did they pass once they were there?
The author, demographer Bob Birrell from Monash University's Centre for Population and Urban Research, said universities dealt with poor English in their students by lowering teaching and assessment standards.
"The level of English that a significant minority are getting through with is poor English," he said. "I've done a lot of interviews with employers, and we've all reached the same conclusion: no matter what their work ethic, (the students) are not equipped for professional-level work in Australia."
He said some Australian universities offered courses, particularly in accounting and computing, designed to require minimal English. Students in other courses coped using means ranging from "tutorial help to outright plagiarism".
The level of English required to gain an Australian visa varies. Applicants for a higher-education student visa must score at band-six level, rated as "competent", under the International English Language Testing System, if based overseas when they apply.
But international applicants can avoid the testing by basing themselves in Australia earlier to complete either year 12 or an intensive language course. Dr Birrell found that about 40 per cent of overseas students followed this path.
Students wanting a permanent residency visa sit the IELTS after graduating but need to score at only band five, which reflects a "partial com- mand of the language Â… likely to make many mistakes".
Dr Birrell found slightly more than a third of applicants reached band five, but not band six. He called on the Government to lift the minimum English standard for permanent residency to the same needed to go to university.
The number of overseas students at Australian universities surged by about 40 per cent in the first half of the decade, mostly in business and management.
This followed the Government's relaxing of entry laws for skilled migrants, and universities and TAFEs launching campaigns to recruit more international students. Universities have become increasingly reliant on upfront fees from foreigners.
Universities and TAFEs do not independently test the English levels of students before they start study, but Dr Birrell said this should change.
"This is an appropriate juncture for universities to ensure that the students they enrol are actually equipped to undertake tertiary-level training," he said.
Professor Gerard Sutton, the president of the Australian Vice-Chancellors Committee, said it was possible the students who had failed to reach a band-six score had scored poorly in the speaking component of the test, which may not have been a critical skill in the course they were taking.
"I don't accept that there's a problem in universities in terms of soft marking of international students," Professor Sutton said.
With HARRIET ALEXANDER
3.Is it wise to send kids to overseas to study and their English
still not up to standard after graduated? -
if their english is not good in the first place how do they pass their exams??
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After graduated, their English standard is not good enough to be admitted to U!!Originally posted by cAr|n:if their english is not good in the first place how do they pass their exams??
Read the aricle in full then u know the back door. -
We don't have to worry. Our English outclasses those other immigrants anyday.
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Must be they bought the PR illegally
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if i am not wrong, there are about 16 million british who cant read or writ...
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and tons of americans who fail grammar, or can't spell.
threads like this ought to be moved to chit chat. -
Ai pl read full lah.Originally posted by alexkusu:Must be they bought the PR illegally
They graduated in Aussie and got PR in Aussie.
I think saying they bought the degree will be more correct. -
Nowadays tertiary studies is so commercialised in Oz, you pay the schools 10000 bucks in tution fees and they throw you back 6 semesters worth of modules, which ones you dunno how difficult, you decide for yourself.
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and what does that have to do with Singapore?
anyway, i'd say that the Singapore graduates are not that far off either.. at work here, i keep seeing "to received" and other grammatical atrocities in formal reports
oh well.. -
I know for a fact that TOEFL scores for university applications can be easily bought at a certain east asian country .... it's something that citizens of that country would happily tell you about ... so perhaps it's not surprising at all ....
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simple.All U eager to earn forex and accept them as students and let them
graduate (closing one eye,of course.If not, no foreign students wil
attend this U if graduating rate so low )
But the real test after they graduated and got PR found them even
not qualified to be admitted to U!!
from the article in open post.He said some Australian universities offered courses, particularly in accounting and computing, designed to require minimal English. Students in other courses coped using means ranging from "tutorial help to outright plagiarism".
Digest it carefully then u know the reasons.
The level of English required to gain an Australian visa varies. Applicants for a higher-education student visa must score at band-six level, rated as "competent", under the International English Language Testing System, if based overseas when they apply.
But international applicants can avoid the testing by basing themselves in Australia earlier to complete either year 12 or an intensive language course. Dr Birrell found that about 40 per cent of overseas students followed this path.
Students wanting a permanent residency visa sit the IELTS after graduating but need to score at only band five, which reflects a "partial com- mand of the language Â… likely to make many mistakes". -
I think SG'ns English is poorish when they first go to uni in Aust, UK etc. But once they spend some time there, it gets better.
eg no more wrong "s" like fruit"s" , four dollar fifty cent ( should be four dollarS and fifty centS), and I saw in political section one guy wrote "sands"- sand has no "s".
This is especially for the SG girls, cuz a lot spend time with overseas guys, so it gets better very quickly!
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Hello ....pot calling kettle black.Originally posted by lionnoisy:After graduated, their English standard is not good enough to be admitted to U!!
Read the aricle in full then u know the back door.
Your English is not that perfect too. I would suggest that you improve on yours instead of making comments that would put your Singaporean English teacher to shame.
Please correct your grammar and spelling. Thanks.
I would also suggest that all foreigners should have their English competency checked in Singapore.
When I was working as a nurse in Singapore, I met this PRC nurse who couldn't even understand what was on the medication chart ( she had asked me what it was) - and it was penicillin! She matched it by looking at the chart and matching it alphabet for alphabet on the pill foil. -
Erm... none of the fellow Singaporean students I've encountered while living in Australia have a problem with english in the 1st place.
U don't seem to be very well-informed... -
uhh... was anyone poisoned by that woman?Originally posted by fymk:Hello ....pot calling kettle black.
Your English is not that perfect too. I would suggest that you improve on yours instead of making comments that would put your Singaporean English teacher to shame.
Please correct your grammar and spelling. Thanks.
I would also suggest that all foreigners should have their English competency checked in Singapore.
When I was working as a nurse in Singapore, I met this PRC nurse who couldn't even understand what was on the medication chart ( she had asked me what it was) - and it was penicillin! She matched it by looking at the chart and matching it alphabet for alphabet on the pill foil. -
there were plenty when i was there...Originally posted by spinsugar:Erm... none of the fellow Singaporean students I've encountered while living in Australia have a problem with english in the 1st place.
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Geez!!
I think lionnoisy is 100% racist!! -
Geez!!
I think lionnoisy is 100% racist!! -
Really? So much so that they can't string a coherent english sentence together? o.0 Singaporean students may not speak or write perfect english, but I find they're still way ahead of most other SE Asian students. I've never met one who had a *real* problem with the english curriculum.Originally posted by the Bear:there were plenty when i was there... -
To: loinnoisy
You don't have many friends do you? You only mixed within your own race and kind, don't appreciate the qualities of other races, you haven't been out of Singapore because all the other countries are not comparable to Singapore. They have corrupt government, they have unsafe airports, they have high crime rates, they have vices, they have whateveryoucanthinkof......
Hey!! You are no different from a person living in Changi Prison, but your bars are self imposed. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Somehow, it's ironic that someone who can't get through three sentences without slaughtering the English language should post on this topic.
(correction: add "The" ) English of 1/3 PR graduated (correction: "graduates" ) in Aussie (correction: "Australia" ; add "is" ) not good enough admitted (correction: "for admission" ) to U (correction: "university" )!!
2.What is the passing rate of SG graduates?
3.Is it wise to send kids overseas to study (correction: add "if" ) their English (correction: add "is" ) still not up to standard after graduated (correction: "graduation" )?
Just as well that he got corrected by an Australian graduate. -
I agree, it's always the PRC who cant be arsed to learn English, Not all of course, but those skilled workers employed here but are unable to converse in English is always the PRC. Philipines, indians has no problem, We just need to get used to their accent but the PRC...daym! I know they are good with programming etc, but they cant be facing the PC 24/7, they need to talk..I dont blame them though, I blame the employers who hired them. I know majority in this island is Chinese, but at least please think of ur non chinese staff..imagine if u are a non Chinese sitting in a meeting, with a bunch of Singaporean Chinese and PRC..u'll stick out like a sore thumb...they will converse in Mandarin and leave u out of the whole thing..unless U make some noise!Originally posted by fymk:Hello ....pot calling kettle black.
Your English is not that perfect too. I would suggest that you improve on yours instead of making comments that would put your Singaporean English teacher to shame.
Please correct your grammar and spelling. Thanks.
I would also suggest that all foreigners should have their English competency checked in Singapore.
When I was working as a nurse in Singapore, I met this PRC nurse who couldn't even understand what was on the medication chart ( she had asked me what it was) - and it was penicillin! She matched it by looking at the chart and matching it alphabet for alphabet on the pill foil.
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It's pretty easy to just cut and paste articles is it not? This comes especially true when the key objective is to stir up shiit.
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Hey, with such bad English, perhaps cut-and-paste is the lesser of two evils.Originally posted by bangkokboy:It's pretty easy to just cut and paste articles is it not? This comes especially true when the key objective is to stir up shiit.