Singapore - lowest % property ownership in the world?
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A choice to leave this place? I doubt it, which country would want you unless you have millions to invest in their country.Originally posted by FireIce:ur luck and fate u are born in singapore
u have a choice to leave this place u know.........there is always a choice. -
Hehehe.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:main reason is to have control over your basic needs. so you will never dare to go against them.
realise why there are not demonstration here? mainly because people have to work. otherwise don't work, no money (also because we pay and pay), which will lead to no food, no house, no this no that.
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. -
1.
Do u think only u are holding free hold land/unit and governmentOriginally posted by kilua:I opened todays paper and saw HDB ad.
Singaporeans only own a "HDB lease and tenancy agreement"
If you infringe their "HDB lease and tenancy agreement", they can compulsorily
acquire the flat for infringement". You can be made homeless if you infringe their rules.
If we assume 85% of Singaporeans living in HDB flats, The Singaporeans
who owns a property rather than a lease is 15%.Doesnt this make it the lowest property ownership in the world?
promise u never compulsoriy purchase,even u infringe the conditions ,
then is considered OWN?
Which country do this?
Pl carify the concept before we go further.
Do u think in Spore,people hold 999,or 9999 years lease
can be considered owners?
Dunt play with the words OWN.Is it correct u own balance of the 99 years?
Usually there are 70 years and above of lease for you,your kids,
and grand children.
2.
Pl give actual cases that PAP reset 99 years to give backOriginally posted by kilua:i think HDB is a quite a good political tool to control the people.
If you vote for the right party, the lease can be given reseted back to 99 years under some upgrading programme.
if they vote for the wrong party, thats too bad. The reason is only good policies
can reset the lease, those who did not vote for PAP are not voting for the good policies and get what they deserved..
supporters?Even PAP reset,do the lessee have to pay premium to
top up the lease to 99 years and is the premium is fair--
without fear or favours? -
99% of hdb flat owners actually rent the flats, not own them.
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No.Originally posted by dragg:99% of hdb flat owners actually rent the flats, not own them.
100% of HDB flat "owners" rented the flat for 99 years and paid quite expensive for it. -
ALL owners in Hong Kong rents the land up to year 2047,that is 40 years
down the road.So,by definition in opening postings,
there is no owner in HK!!
ANNEX III of Joint Declaration between The Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of the People's Republic of China.2...may be extended if the lesses so wishes for a period expiring not later than 30 June 2047 without payment of an additional premium.
2.can we call lease hold owner ''owner with limited period''?
3. From the entry into force of the Joint Declaration until 30 June 1997, new leases of land may be granted by the British Hong Kong Government for terms expiring not later than 30 June 2047..... -
Originally posted by kilua:
You can be made homeless if you infringe their rules. = you 'own' a property on their terms = the property is not truly yours. = we dont have a right to property = we have no human rights (since there can be no human rights without property rights)
If you infringe their "HDB lease and tenancy agreement", they can compulsorily
acquire the flat for infringement". You can be made homeless if you infringe their rules.
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maybe thats why people are unhappy
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Do u think only u are holding free hold land/unit and government
You own a lease, not a property. The history of human is only 5000 years.
promise u never compulsoriy purchase,even u infringe the conditions ,
then is considered OWN?
Which country do this?
Pl carify the concept before we go further.
Do u think in Spore,people hold 999,or 9999 years lease
can be considered owners?
Dunt play with the words OWN.Is it correct u own balance of the 99 years?
Usually there are 70 years and above of lease for you,your kids,
and grand children.
if i own a property for 9999 years, it can be treated the same as fully owned. I doubt
my descendants would feel the depreciation of their lease.
In the case of a 99 year lease, once it goes 60+ years, the value of the lease drops and it would be hard to get a loan on it.
anyway i quoted direct from HDB ads. If you are not happy, please ask HDB to reword their ad.Pl give actual cases that PAP reset 99 years to give back
There is SERS where HDB owners get a new flat with their lease reseted without paying any premium. Are there any SERS in opposition wards? They would consider themselves lucky if they even get money for the lifts.
supporters?Even PAP reset,do the lessee have to pay premium to
top up the lease to 99 years and is the premium is fair--
without fear or favours? -
can migrate to SentosaOriginally posted by maurizio13:A choice to leave this place? I doubt it, which country would want you unless you have millions to invest in their country. -
i think HDB is a quite a good political tool to control the people.
85% or so of the population live in HDB all their lives, and if you don't vote for 'The Family' your home, or right to a home, might be taken away, or at the very least left without improvement/upgrades/MRT. Could this be construed as direct punishment for voting for any opposition. How might this be related to democracy?
The 'autocratic party' who have been in power for generations have to yes, this must be unique in the world, themselves nominate 2 or 3 tame 'oppostion' politicians, to sit opposite them, like doe-eyed labradors, to nod up and down and say nothing, take the taxpayers money, and yet to not make too much trouble, solely to present some imagined fig-leaf of democracy.
Same way if you challenge the leaders, you and your life will be destroyed. Bye bye HDB, CPF, passport... Guilty (or not?).
Meanwhile, they pay themselves millions of taxpers money a year. Highest paid politicians in the world. Despite transparency this topic is well 'off-limits' (if you still want your HDB flat and any kind of life and not be instantly and hysterically crushed for you 'lack of respect' (democratic though it might be thought) eh) lol
p.s. Is it any wonder there are expensive teams of SGn diplomat/politicians constantly roving the world, presenting seminars to skilled SGn expats abroad, imploring them to come back? They have been for decades now, [the attendees I've met who have been through this generally say 'fat chance'. Tasted freedom, we're off!] -
Yup Totally agree ..Originally posted by Genie8:
85% or so of the population live in HDB all their lives, and if you don't vote for 'The Family' your home, or right to a home, might be taken away, or at the very least left without improvement/upgrades/MRT. Could this be construed as direct punishment for voting for any opposition. How might this be related to democracy?
The 'autocratic party' who have been in power for generations have to yes, this must be unique in the world, themselves nominate 2 or 3 tame 'oppostion' politicians, to sit opposite them, like doe-eyed labradors, to nod up and down and say nothing, take the taxpayers money, and yet to not make too much trouble, solely to present some imagined fig-leaf of democracy.
Same way if you challenge the leaders, you and your life will be destroyed. Bye bye HDB, CPF, passport... Guilty (or not?).
Meanwhile, they pay themselves millions of taxpers money a year. Highest paid politicians in the world. Despite transparency this topic is well 'off-limits' (if you still want your HDB flat and any kind of life and not be instantly and hysterically crushed for you 'lack of respect' (democratic though it might be thought) eh) lol
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Dunt play with the words OWN.Is it correct u own balance of the 99 years?
Life Expectancy in Singapore is : 81.53
Usually there are 70 years and above of lease for you,your kids,
and grand children
if we assume you buy a HDB flat at the age of 30 and you unfortunately lived until 81.53 years. the lease would have left 48 years. If you lived in potong pasir or hougang, they would be still in the waiting list to receive the good policies of PAP.
The difference between owning a real property and a lease would be obvious isnt it?
- cant get a loan on the 48 year lease.
- cant sublet the whole flat out even if you "own" the property
If you think there is no difference between 99 year lease and 999 lease, next time, please tell your employer you want to add 1 more zero to your annual salary. not much difference mah... -
I have to correct you..........if we assume you buy a HDB flat at the age of 30 and you unfortunately lived until 81.53 years. the lease would have left 48 years. If you lived in potong pasir or hougang, they would be still in the waiting list to receive the good policies of PAP.Originally posted by kilua:Life Expectancy in Singapore is : 81.53
if we assume you buy a HDB flat at the age of 30 and you unfortunately lived until 81.53 years. the lease would have left 48 years. If you lived in potong pasir or hougang, they would be still in the waiting list to receive the good policies of PAP.
The difference between owning a real property and a lease would be obvious isnt it?
- cant get a loan on the 48 year lease.
- cant sublet the whole flat out even if you "own" the property
If you think there is no difference between 99 year lease and 999 lease, next time, please tell your employer you want to add 1 more zero to your annual salary. not much difference mah...
Not PAP....is government...PAP is a political party that was ''elected'' to govern singapore.
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you don't..
PR in another country = Singapore Citizen + Permanent Residency in another country...
if you qualify for citizenship in another country and get it, you will have to renounce your status as Singapore Citizen..
after that, you MAY get your CPF..Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Need to check with you guys something. They only give us back our CPF when we give up our citizenship? So if my PR application in another country is approved, how soon will I get it? -
And I guess the emphasis is : MAYOriginally posted by the Bear:you don't..
PR in another country = Singapore Citizen + Permanent Residency in another country...
if you qualify for citizenship in another country and get it, you will have to renounce your status as Singapore Citizen..
after that, you MAY get your CPF.. -
yeah.. which is why i used the upper case to write it...
hey, look at the CPF issue brought up by the malaysians in the past!
the CPF have deep pockets and short hands..Originally posted by mistyblue:And I guess the emphasis is : MAY -
Darn, so I guess I can only smell my money when I old, sheesh think of what I can do with those money in a foreign land!
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dream of it perhaps.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Darn, so I guess I can only smell my money when I old, sheesh think of what I can do with those money in a foreign land!
It Might never ever come back to your hands. -
Might? You dunwan your Money isit?Originally posted by mistyblue:dream of it perhaps.
It Might never ever come back to your hands.
Anyway i see about it a load of rubbish about a home.. at least property price wont depreciate like car prices. You still get value investing in a house than a car. At least got a roof over your head, then what do you expect? Living in a flat for free? Who gonna pay? You pay for me?
All of you all only stay in SG, other countries are much worse off than Singapore.
Living in Comfort still dun satisfied. Go and live in a neighbourhood country lor.. complain so much..
The best living standard in South East Asia what more can you ask for? -
Originally posted by ulquiorra87:You can be made homeless if you infringe their rules. = you 'own' a property on their terms = the property is not truly yours. = we dont have a right to property = we have no human rights (since there can be no human rights without property rights)
maybe thats why people are unhappy
If my property i paid over 10 yrs with CPF and cash, i fully owned my flat..
What rights do the government of Singapore have over my property?
If i sold my flat after i reach 55, what rights have CPF to take back the money i taken from CPF?
No right? It still my money at the end..
Funny you all think like this.. even a property in Malaysia need 200 thousand ringgits.. and when Singapore land is so tiny.. of course you will be paying more for of limited land. What else? Reclaim till we combind with Malaysia?
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You sound like one of the damage control agent."The best living standard in South East Asia what more can you ask for? " This is a repeat argument
Anyway i see about it a load of rubbish about a home.. at least property price wont depreciate like car prices. You still get value investing in a house than a car. At least got a roof over your head, then what do you expect?
What rights do the government of Singapore have over my property?
The best living standard in South East Asia what more can you ask for?
to avoid comparing with Hong Kong and Taiwan.
This argument is a just a way to silence critics without addressing the issue. If i say Singapore service standard is poor compared to Taiwan and Hong Kong and we should try to change it, you would say "The best service standard in South East Asia what more can you ask for? "
This would send Singapore back to third world standards if we are forced to compare with Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia on Service standards. Its quite an irritating to apply "best in SEA" on all arguments. We acknowledge Singapore is better in service standard than cambodia etc.
but we want to compare with better countries.
U seem to have missed these points.
The difference between owning a real property and a lease would be obvious isnt it?
- cant get a long term loan on the 48 year lease.
- cant sublet the whole flat out even if you "own" the property
- the value of a lease would depreciate as it get closer to expiration like cars
The government shouldnt use HDB as a political tool to get votes. A wrong is a wrong. -
Ah but you have a choice - a choice of government .That is where your vote counts.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:It is like saying,
"You can always die one you know? You do not need to see the doctor and pay the exorbitant fees one you know? You have a choice one you know?"
What kind of choice? It should be,
"You have a choice to choose your government, you know?"
Please don't tell me Singaporeans have a choice. -
I notice a few people who equate PR with citizenship even in another topic.Originally posted by the Bear:you don't..
PR in another country = Singapore Citizen + Permanent Residency in another country...
if you qualify for citizenship in another country and get it, you will have to renounce your status as Singapore Citizen..
after that, you MAY get your CPF..
PR of another country is a special visa stuck on your Singaporean passport giving you free and unrestricted access to that particular country within a set timeframe . Give up Singaporean citizenship - your passport is invalidated - you effectively lose PR status in another country. Officially you become stateless and an illegal migrant.
Permanent residency is not citizenship although it forms a shield to allow you the same rights to seek jobs or health services as citizens of the country. You cannot vote for the government or hold a passport of the country as a permanent citizen or gain further benefits . You have to renew every 5 years on a valid passport in Australia.
Bearing in mind , once you surrender Singaporean citizenship and withdraw your cpf - you will find it VERY hard to get back in unless you have what they view as talent! -
Originally posted by Urroh:
If my property i paid over 10 yrs with CPF and cash, i fully owned my flat..
What rights do the government of Singapore have over my property?
If i sold my flat after i reach 55, what rights have CPF to take back the money i taken from CPF?
No right? It still my money at the end..
Funny you all think like this.. even a property in Malaysia need 200 thousand ringgits.. and when Singapore land is so tiny.. of course you will be paying more for of limited land. What else? Reclaim till we combind with Malaysia?
I'm just saying we own the flat under their terms, and that it can be taken away any time we infringe their rules. Own the flat under their terms doesnt it equal to it is not really ours to do as we please?? which is what the word 'own' really means?Originally posted by kilua:If you infringe their "HDB lease and tenancy agreement", they can compulsorily
acquire the flat for infringement". You can be made homeless if you infringe their rules.
also i never complained about paying more for property