PAP moves to counter criticism of party, govt in cyberspace
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Stomp has their own fair share of dodos and whiners. There's nothing special except it has the backing and resources of SPH.Originally posted by the Bear:is this why STOMP is now tragi-comedy?
it would be comic if it wasn't so tragically effective in diverting attention away from important issues...
For all their 'starblog' celebrity base, they still lack the substance and intellectual capacity to sustain serious arguments. -
by James...
How long will 'the message is important not the identity' b4...
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Can one believe that a PhD can be intolerant towards opponents of this Government, and will dare whine about personal attacks when he will not hesistate to launch the first attack with natural knee-jerk reaction ?
Given the extremely bigoted and caustic remarks expressed by opponents of the government here, a robust rebuttal is not only to be expected, but required.
If opponents of the government are bigotted and can only express caustic remarks, it is intended to slice through the purposeful blindness or blinkered views - (of those who claim high education but prefer to be 'mushrooms') - to the reality of the Singapore situation that surely is leading Singapore to the edge of a precipice.
Clever propaganda and articulate strategies have constantly been created to lull most unthinking Singaporeans to sleep; but cannot possibly be effective to those with a keen sense of history and memories of mistakes made from past arrogant policies.
It is a pity that the highest educated will not see the road that this Government has taken for the last forty five years of Singapore's history.
Touchy-feely liberal leftist ?
Policy decisions require a comprehensive, non-passionate consideration of all the implications. Yes, it may be seen as being too cold and calculating for the touchy-feely liberal leftist. But at the end of the day, if your policies and laws lack consistency, society breaks down and investors leave.
What has Oxbridge done to you ? When did they begin to produce 'right-wingers' and 'totalitarian monsters' that look and think with heads resembling 'mushrooms' ?
While 'Policy Decision' need to be comprehensive and non-passionate in a plural society - for the sake of being ethnic-neutral and maintain fairness; unfortunately, more often then not the Ruling Political Party aka the Government - with full and monopolistic control of the entire machinery and systems of Government - have used its position to benefit its own interests at the expense of Singapore and Singaporeans.
Is Singapore society not slowly breaking down ?
While its decline is not as unruly and chaotic as some African or Middle-east or Latin countries, the rot has already begun to affect the large crust of the lower and middle-income groups.
It is only the harsh laws, a strong Police State, and the fact that the majority of Singaporeans are employed by State own companies that has largely kept the angry emotions of Singaporeans in check, and grudgingly accept government policies that have been rushed through Parliament without any Members of Parliament being allowed to vote according to their conscience.
Conscience ? Do you have any ?
In any case, are you Conscious to the real events in Singapore ?
Surely the sudden increase in suicides along the MRT lines indicate something is not right in Singapore Society ?
The Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party has already stated that it has nothing to do with the Thaksin or Shin Corp affair; which they claim is largely a commercial transaction involving Temasek.
There is nothing wrong in taking a strong stand on an issue (and in case you have conveniently forgotten, I also oppose certain government policies such as the Thaksin affair, just as strongly). The government critics here who regularly demonstrate inconsistencies in their positions are building on sand and bound to fall.
They have distanced themselves from this COMMERCIAL deal - why are you barking up the wrong tree ?
They do not see this as a Political Issue - or at least they are trying hard to de-politicize this matter - which can affect their not so white Political Reputation that you have so fervently defended.
It seems that your position is more precarious than most government critics, as your arguments have mostly been based on very weak foundations, which have been repeatedly and convincingly demolished more oftern than once - with you quietly sliding out of the many threads.
By the way, the Singapore shore lines have been extended by reclaimamation from the sea using a huge amount of sand; are you suggesting that Singapore being built on sand will also fall - at the hands of this Singapore Government ? -
there was a vibrant intranet discussion forum in my organisation... all anonymous
until someone blasted the then-no.1.. which i have to say is deserved.. this set off a tidal wave of blasting... all very objective..
the no.1 could not handle this and we swear he tried to defend his position with some silly handle... those who had to work under him directly saw his style of writing and laughed...
after a while, he could not take the heat.. instructed the IT side to trace the first posting... the IT side refused quoting chapter and verse of the origin of the forum...
the no.1 took the forum down.. and it was replaced by one where you have to identify yourself with your staff number...
that forum died of inactivity...
take what you want from this story..Originally posted by eyebuzz:by James...
How long will 'the message is important not the identity' b4... -
Seems typical that people at the top value their face too much and in their arrogance simply can't take the heat.Originally posted by the Bear:there was a vibrant intranet discussion forum in my organisation... all anonymous
until someone blasted the then-no.1.. which i have to say is deserved.. this set off a tidal wave of blasting... all very objective..
the no.1 could not handle this and we swear he tried to defend his position with some silly handle... those who had to work under him directly saw his style of writing and laughed...
after a while, he could not take the heat.. instructed the IT side to trace the first posting... the IT side refused quoting chapter and verse of the origin of the forum...
the no.1 took the forum down.. and it was replaced by one where you have to identify yourself with your staff number...
that forum died of inactivity...
take what you want from this story.. -
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which have been repeatedly and convincingly demolished more oftern than once - with you quietly sliding out of the many threads.
LOL! How true! -
Originally posted by Atobe:
.. I love watching you chew people up....
The Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party has already stated that it has nothing to do with the Thaksin or Shin Corp affair; which they claim is largely a commercial transaction involving Temasek.
They have distanced themselves from this [b]COMMERCIAL deal - why are you barking up the wrong tree ?
They do not see this as a Political Issue - or at least they are trying hard to de-politicize this matter - which can affect their not so white Political Reputation that you have so fervently defended.
It seems that your position is more precarious than most government critics, as your arguments have mostly been based on very weak foundations, which have been repeatedly and convincingly demolished more oftern than once - with you quietly sliding out of the many threads.
By the way, the Singapore shore lines have been extended by reclaimamation from the sea using a huge amount of sand; are you suggesting that Singapore being built on sand will also fall - at the hands of this Singapore Government ?
[/b]
...please don't chew me ...
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If the younger ministers and post-65 mps indeed were our best talents, surely they do not need any hand holding and can on their own stand up for their own beliefs and abilities without prompting from the older mentors or leaders.
This is the real chance for mps like Denise Phua who commented negatively about the views of forummers to exercise her real debates skills or charisma to clear any doubts once and for all.
So far, we have hip-hops from them instead of their abilities in exercising their debating skills or good ideas on any policies or issues.
For a start, I for one am eagerly looking forward to these newer ministers and post-65 mps to tell us how they could serve the people better by continuing to up taxes, gst and all the fees to carry on their past taxing and cost-recovering policies as emphasised by the older leaders.
Do we people soon see a pot of gold or copper at the end of the rainbow.
We would be eagerly looking forward to their real-time posting using their real names why people must continue to pay more and more after all the double-charging and corporatization which have driven up people's costs of living unheard of in modern day history.
May be this is an opportunity too for them to show that they are not like durai of nkf who are only interested in their own rewards or positions and using their power to involve in insider deals and golden tap privileges.
This is really a very good opportunity for them to grow up instead of hiding behind the mentors and trying to stage-manage perceptions.
We have seen too many wayangs for a long time now and we would certainly do well with some real substantive or robust debates of views worth the hot air that spews. -
Well, GCK himself said it. They used the GRC process to shepherd these spineless morons through knowing full well they have a total lack of ability to contest elections on their own two feet and used minister shadows to do the job.
These spineless yes women/men have absolutely no individual thought whatsoever and the Govt likes it that way so they can rubber stamp every single bill through parliament without even using the party whip, if it is even used. -
On the contrary, it is the bigoted who cannot see the progress this government has made over the last forty years. Even David Marshall, founder of the Workers' Party and a robust critic of the government had to admit the achievements of this government:Originally posted by Atobe:Clever propaganda and articulate strategies have constantly been created to lull most unthinking Singaporeans to sleep; but cannot possibly be effective to those with a keen sense of history and memories of mistakes made from past arrogant policies.
It is a pity that the highest educated will not see the road that this Government has taken for the last forty five years of Singapore's history.
"When I was Chief Minister, there were men dying of starvation and because of ‘beri-beri’. I took my PA [personal assistant] and an Inspector of Police for night at midnight. For two hours, we toured Singapore and we estimated there were two ten thousand men sleeping on the pavements. No homes.
Today - no unemployment, no homeless. I started this business of building homes for our people. Compare the puny work I achieved and the fantastic HDB homes that are available today for our people. I am deeply impressed and I take off my hat to this very able honest government. Dedicated!"
(http://thinkhappiness.blogspot.com/2006/08/meeting-david-marshall-in-1994.html)
Unfortunately, bigots like you are blinkered by your prejudice that you are unable to see what a honest Opposition leader can. And that is why the Opposition will never win an election unless it can recruit people of the calibre of David Marshall.It is only the harsh laws, a strong Police State, and the fact that the majority of Singaporeans are employed by State own companies that has largely kept the angry emotions of Singaporeans in check, and grudgingly accept government policies that have been rushed through Parliament without any Members of Parliament being allowed to vote according to their conscience.
First, where's your evidence that the majority of Singaporeans are employed by state-owned companies? Another wild allegation not supported by facts? The electorial results over the past 40 years certainly do not support a grudging acceptance of government policies. People will always whinge, especially Singaporeans, but at the end of the day, those with some brains will make their decision based on who will ensure their continued prosperity.The Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party has already stated that it has nothing to do with the Thaksin or Shin Corp affair; which they claim is largely a commercial transaction involving Temasek.
As usual, you have completely missed the point. My comments on the Thaksin affair relates only to the interview he made to CNN. The purchase of Shincorp is a purely commercial decision and has nothing to do with the government. The question is whether the government should have ignored Thaksin's right to freedom of expression and muzzled him, in the national interests, knowing the current Thai government's position on it. As it turned out, the government resepcted Thaksin's civil liberties and allowed him to make critical remarks about the military junta, thus earning the displeasure of the Thai government. My position is that national interests should override personal liberties.
They have distanced themselves from this COMMERCIAL deal - why are you barking up the wrong tree ?
Are you prepared to support the PAP in defending Thaksin's right to freedom of expression? -
Unfortunately the key word is last forty years, not the last 5 years. Not when Mr LHL took over.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:On the contrary, it is the bigoted who cannot see the progress this government has made over the last forty years. Even David Marshall, founder of the Workers' Party and a robust critic of the government had to admit the achievements of this government:
"When I was Chief Minister, there were men dying of starvation and because of ‘beri-beri’. I took my PA [personal assistant] and an Inspector of Police for night at midnight. For two hours, we toured Singapore and we estimated there were two ten thousand men sleeping on the pavements. No homes. -
You see, all these die hard PAP supporters often allude to the past "glorious history" to justify their support for the PAP, often papering over all the past stupidities of the PAP Govt. Yes, they did a good job in the PAST. But it is the present that matters. At present, are they doing a good job? I think not. Lots of stupid bungling ranging from the biomedical nonsense where you have someone at the head of a Govt organisation who has the balls to insult the entire male population when that moron has never served NS before in his entire life has no moral authority to even comment on NS, and to the various other bunglings like the Suzhou Industrial project which is a huge billion dollar skeleton in the closet which will make the NKF issue tame by comparison and now we have the more public Thaksin fiasco.
What they fail to see is that the PAP is banking on the foolish Confucian notion of filial piety and respect for elders for their eternal support. Chinese society is incredibly fossilized in Singapore because people still retain some of the age old notions of how a family should be and should stay that way and not change at all. Respect for elders, pah! Respect is earned and not some God given right!
The other exploitation of course is the fact that people do not like change and the Govt does its best to keep our laws in the backward ages.
Now Question: They claim it is a commercial deal with erm.. Singapore taxpayer's money and yet say it is commercial again. Either this is the greatest doublespeak and attempt to pander silly legalistic terms, or the fact of the matter is that they are, like the Suzhou project that went before it, trying to distance the Govt from it. Now, I would like accountability on this issue, but thus far, Temasek has been silent while the Govt does the talking for it. So either the Govt is simply trying to smile off the entire event, or it is simply so deep in shit they know that they are aiming this commercial nonsense not at the Thais but at hte Singaporeans who will be concerned at the prospect taht billions of dollars of taxpayers' cash is now in danger of flying away. -
Like I said, the form book never counts. If you cannot deliver, and be seen to deliver, it's time to hedge our bets.
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one thing is.. the country is much much more important than mere gratitude to a party for things done in the past...
if they aren't delivering, they don't deserve your vote...
that includes the opposition.. doesn't mean that the powers are not delivering, you get a vote by default.. -
second thatOriginally posted by the Bear:one thing is.. the country is much much more important than mere gratitude to a party for things done in the past...
if they aren't delivering, they don't deserve your vote...
that includes the opposition.. doesn't mean that the powers are not delivering, you get a vote by default..
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Oxford Mushroom
err... when was that... today? Leaders like DM are genuinely for the people then but now, today, TODAY.... u haven't seen yet, after 40 years, old ladies pushing empty cartons, old men sleeping in void decks, fishing for emptied cans from the rubbish chutes, selling tissue papers competing with the visually handicappeds, 'vagabonds' waiting at hawker centres waiting for u to leave some leftovers... n >40s in structural unemployment... people livin' in borrowed monies, thousands in debts, increased bankruptcies... excuse me these r not rampant yet?...we shall see the next 'more good years' to come, k?
On the contrary, it is the bigoted who cannot see the progress this government has made over the last forty years. Even David Marshall, founder of the Workers' Party and a robust critic of the government had to admit the achievements of this government:
"When I was Chief Minister, there were men dying of starvation and because of ‘beri-beri’. I took my PA [personal assistant] and an Inspector of Police for night at midnight. For two hours, we toured Singapore and we estimated there were two ten thousand men sleeping on the pavements. No homes.
Today - no unemployment, no homeless. I started this business of building homes for our people. Compare the puny work I achieved and the fantastic HDB homes that are available today for our people. I am deeply impressed and I take off my hat to this very able honest government. Dedicated!" -
Once again, OM shoots and misses the entire issue nearly entirely, not to mention misfires and ends up shooting himself in the foot.
In Animal Farm, many papers and stats are given the the animals to convince them that no matter what they felt- things were better and getting better still despite what the animals were seeing right there in front of their eyes.
Once everyone has stripped our current issues to the core, one wonders if we will find the core to be full of rot.
I've noticed his affinity to quote the past to dismiss what is plainly happening right now is a lot like a certain members of a charity that kept putting up interesting pictures and self-promotions to indicate how much they have progressed since their modest beginnings and why that ought to silence any current questions about their operations. I wonder what's happened to some of them now.
All nations must progress, but I've yet to see one rely on memory of past progress to dismiss or ignore some rather obvious cracks that are currently seen?
Let's try another theory: back then it worked for everybody to work together to bring the nation up to great heights... but once we got there and everybody was settling in, what's to stop some groups from deciding that the status quo should be maintained at the expense of others, or from helping themselves to a larger share of the fruits and rights of the nation's labour then ought to be fairly allocated them?
So OM... can you actually come up with something worth of proper discussion? Or are you just going to keep refering to well-known facts that people already know, but obviously made the logical connect to see these facts and realize that by all the math... something is obviously very wrong now. Something that is so obvious that nobody needs to mention it at all until you decide to show your ignorance (or prehaps just wilfull denial) of the subject matter?
If anything... your attempt to draw a point from history supports your opponents, if anything else. Which is unfortunate, given a person with basic respect for facts and logic could see it coming from a mile away.
So really, is there anything new that you have to say? Or are you just going to post more jibber-jabber that help your opponents more along their way?
Are you sure you are not actually on the side of your "opponents", acting as an agent provocateur to make your "side" seem bad? Because I find it hard to believe a proponent of any position would consistently and willingly make so many astounding errors of basic logic and judgement in debate, and yet keep up the act.
The only motivation for such behaviour I can see is if that somebody is actually playing for the side he's attacking... unless of course that person is really that senseless... but given this is the internet, anything is possible. -
Originally posted by Oxford Mushroom:
There is no doubt that in his younger days - during the early 1950s - David Marshall was an impressive speaker as LKY. David Marshall's verbal assault was feared in the Courts, as he was entertaining in debate.
On the contrary, it is the bigoted who cannot see the progress this government has made over the last forty years. Even David Marshall, founder of the Workers' Party and a robust critic of the government had to admit the achievements of this government:
"When I was Chief Minister, there were men dying of starvation and because of ‘beri-beri’. I took my PA [personal assistant] and an Inspector of Police for night at midnight. For two hours, we toured Singapore and we estimated there were two ten thousand men sleeping on the pavements. No homes.
Today - no unemployment, no homeless. I started this business of building homes for our people. Compare the puny work I achieved and the fantastic HDB homes that are available today for our people. I am deeply impressed and I take off my hat to this very able honest government. Dedicated!"
(http://thinkhappiness.blogspot.com/2006/08/meeting-david-marshall-in-1994.html)
Unfortunately, bigots like you are blinkered by your prejudice that you are unable to see what a honest Opposition leader can. And that is why the Opposition will never win an election unless it can recruit people of the calibre of David Marshall.
Despite his fearsome looks, David Marshall retained his humanity towards his fellow Singaporeans.
His reputation as a Politician and expertise of the Legal System made him a formidable opponent to LKY and the PAP. It was unfortunate that he lacked the touch of ruthlessness in dealing with the underground Communists that brought his political career to an early end.
Although David Marshall was less ruthless than LKY, his formidable brain and quick thinking could easily outclass LKY; and given proper political support, it is more then likely that David Marshall could have resurrected his political career in Singapore Politics.
This possibility was probably noted by LKY, who shrewdly offered David Marshall the opportunity to be Singapore's Ambassador to France; in the same manner as LKY had neutralised the fantastic legal brain of Tommy Koh - by sending him away to be Singapore's Representative to the United Nation.
'Today - no unemployment, no homeless' - a statement that you attribute to the late David Marshall is perhaps out of touch with reality; as the term 'Today' referred to 1994 - thirteen years ago.
Those words were spoken by a gentleman, in his twilight years and blind sided by the superficial glitter of the HDB estates without being involved in the squalor and packed environment of those living in the Single-and-3 Room HDB units.
From the following report "Singapore : New Poor and Social Cohesion":According to quarterly reports by Singapore's Department of Statistics, unemployment has been steadily increasing. By June 2001, unemployment had reached 3.4%, breaching the international satisfactory unemployment level of 3.0%. Singapore?s unemployment rate worsened to 4.7 percent in December 2001, the highest in 15 years, as companies laid off workers to weather the recession.
Unemployment stood at 4.5% in the first and second quarters of 2003 as confirmed by the Manpower Research and Statistics Department report on ?Labour Market, Second Quarter 2003?. The rate exceeds the 4.4 percent recorded in December 1998 during the Asian financial crisis. The Manpower Research and Statistics Department published a report on "Labour Market, 2001" in March 2002 in which overall unemployment rate was projected to reach about 5.5 - 6% by the second half of 2002 ? an estimate that has been confirmed with the 5.9% figure for the third quarter of 2003. The record rate of 6.0 percent was in March 1986 resulting from the mid-1980s recession.
With unemployment figures hovering at about 4.5% and set to peak at 5.5%, there is increasing realization that a certain fixed level of unemployment that goes beyond the international satisfactory unemployment level of 3.0% might become a permanent feature of society"
It is not usual to have government lead surveys of wage to show that since the Asian crisis wage growth has reached pre-crisis levels. However a comparison of the pay increase of the rank-and?file employees will show that throughout the 1990s average annual wage growth has been declining from 10% to 8% in the early half to 7% to 5% in the later half (see page 4, Report on Wages in Singapore, 2002). This is largely due to attempts to keep business costs down, as employers see a cut in wages as one way of keeping costs down.
In fact, total wages comprising of basic wages, annual wage supplement and variable bonuses came to standstill in 2002, a drop from the 1.1% rise in 2001 (Report on Wages in Singapore, 2002). For the rank and file worker there was a cut in wages by 0.3% in 2002 down from a 1.2% gain a year earlier. The variable wage component of all workers (which includes the 13th month allowance and other variable bonuses) fell 15% from 2.09 months of the basic salary in 2001 to 1.77 months in 2002 (Report on Wages in Singapore, 2002). Needless to say, the rank and file workers experienced a drop of 19% in 2002.
It has been highlighted that the Per capita GDP in 2000 at around US$23,000 was higher that many First World countries but the remuneration received by Singapore workers or wage share in GDP was about 42 percent, which is unusually low compared to developed countries and lowest among the Asian NIEs.
Some economists have therefore remarked that Singapore, while having attained a First World per capita income, in reality has kept in place an income structure that is closer to that of a Third World country (Department of Statistics, 2001).
Surely in 1994, in which David Marshall made the quoted remarks in his old age, he could not possibly have foreseen the impending increase in the numbers of unemployed and homeless in Singapore?
The reason for the Opposition not being able to win in any Election is due largely to the unethical political moves made by the Ruling Political Party, with its shameless use of its monopolistic grip and abuse of government machinery, the police, the legal system, the medias - to perpetuate its existence in Singapore.
In any other First World society, with a strong and independent Judiciary and Legal System, the methods employed by this Ruling Political Party - to perpetuate itself during the Election Process - would have resulted in independent probes and prosecution.
Can Singapore ever hope to get itself out of the present rut and take off in the same manner as the South Koreans - who have rid themselves from dictatorial rule and the accumulation of power in one person and one party ?
Will you prefer to be purposefully blind and ignore the numbers prepared by the Department of Statistics; or perhaps the mushroom brain cannot possibly absorb any sequential logic from obvious numbers, and prefer to be lulled to sleep by pompous propaganda ? -
continuation:
Originally posted by Oxford Mushroom:
Are you permanently based in UK or are you residing in Singapore ?
First, where's your evidence that the majority of Singaporeans are employed by state-owned companies? Another wild allegation not supported by facts? The electorial results over the past 40 years certainly do not support a grudging acceptance of government policies. People will always whinge, especially Singaporeans, but at the end of the day, those with some brains will make their decision based on who will ensure their continued prosperity.
Either way it seems you are oblivious to the present situation in Singapore when you prefer to be blind sided by propaganda, while arrogantly associating yourself with the falsehood of being one of the Government labelled Singaporean elite.
How could a trained mind missed the present situation in Singapore, when foreigners researching the Singapore economy can see the obvious - as reflected in the report posted in the website of the US Department of State :The Singapore government is strongly committed both to maintaining a free market and to taking a leadership role in planning Singapore's economic development. That role has traditionally relied heavily on industrial policy; the government's active use of the public sector as both an investor and catalyst for development has given rise to the characterization of Singapore as “Singapore Inc.”
The Government asserts that GLCs (defined here as those companies in which the Government has a 20% or greater ownership and/or controls the majority of voting rights) account for just 13% of GDP.
The use of a broader definition of GLCs, including a lower percentage of Government ownership as well as GLC subsidiaries, would boost that percentage considerably.
As of October 2004, GLCs accounted for nearly 40% of total capitalization of the Singapore stock exchange.
Some observers have criticized the dominant role of GLCs in the commanding heights of the domestic economy arguing that it has displaced or suppressed private entrepreneurship.
The government is now stressing measures to encourage such entrepreneurship, while still continuing a heavy state role in the economy.
With the Government's owing forty percent of the capitalization in the Stock Exchange of Singapore, who do you think is the biggest single employer of Singaporeans ?
Have I completely missed the point of your last post concerning the "Thaksin Affair" ?
As usual, you have completely missed the point. My comments on the Thaksin affair relates only to the interview he made to CNN. The purchase of Shincorp is a purely commercial decision and has nothing to do with the government.
Did your posted comments about the "Thaksin Affair" make any reference to the interview that Thaksin made to CNN ?
Unless you are attempting to change the prints of your last post, you did submit the following - and how many ways can one miss your obvious point ?
Was the Shincorp deal a purely commercial decision that has nothing to do with the Singapore Government ?
There is nothing wrong in taking a strong stand on an issue (and in case you have conveniently forgotten, I also oppose certain government policies such as the Thaksin affair, just as strongly). The government critics here who regularly demonstrate inconsistencies in their positions are building on sand and bound to fall.
A deal worth $3 BILLION that is paid from cash taken from the Singapore Reserves and did not pass muster from the Singapore Government ?
Is Temasek an independent commercial entity similar to any large US or European Corporation, or is its existence due to the fact that its capital is 100% paid by the Singapore Government - with money from our Reserves ?The question is whether the government should have ignored Thaksin's right to freedom of expression and muzzled him, in the national interests, knowing the current Thai government's position on it. As it turned out, the government resepcted Thaksin's civil liberties and allowed him to make critical remarks about the military junta, thus earning the displeasure of the Thai government. My position is that national interests should override personal liberties.
Are you now expanding the Thaksin Affair - from the Shincorp commercial transaction - to the Thaksin Affair concerning his Rights being muzzled by the Thai Military ?
Are you prepared to support the PAP in defending Thaksin's right to freedom of expression?
It is a sad irony to believe your pseudo concern with Thaksin's right to freedom of expression, when you hardly will recognise the same rights that have been taken away from Singaporeans by this Singapore Government.
Can we believe your pathetic postion in attempting to twist your way out of a quick sand that you have built your entire position on ?
It is best that you follow David Marshall's decision to stay out of politics, and quit while you are ahead, as it is not so smart to make comments about issues that you have definitely shown yourself to be unable to grasp.
Going about the entire reply but engaging issues at a tangent with new implausible arguments only confirms the mushroom thinking that you so proudly identify yourself with. -
The president approved the touching of the reserves. If they need to bleed further regarding the Shin Corp issue, will the President give the go ahead again? Not sure about this issue... anyone? Or did he give the go ahead already?Originally posted by Atobe:A deal worth $3 BILLION that is paid from cash taken from the Singapore Reserves and did not pass muster from the Singapore Government ?
Is Temasek an independent commercial entity similar to any large US or European Corporation, or is its existence due to the fact that its capital is 100% paid by the Singapore Government - with money from our Reserves ? -
the president's approval is just a formality, thats what they pay him for, to sign his name on documentsOriginally posted by bigmouthjoe:The president approved the touching of the reserves. If they need to bleed further regarding the Shin Corp issue, will the President give the go ahead again? Not sure about this issue... anyone? Or did he give the go ahead already? -
as much as i would like to see this friendly discussion carrying on, i must say that the end-result is obvious. the critics here won my vote for the brilliant exchange. perhaps, i am not so neutral after-all.
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if tomasick really is run independently from the arms of the gahmen, the head of the tomasick would roll by now given the recent serious blunder, not to mention the past blunders as well...
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Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:
Does Temasek need the President to approve any investment decision ?
The president approved the touching of the reserves. If they need to bleed further regarding the Shin Corp issue, will the President give the go ahead again? Not sure about this issue... anyone? Or did he give the go ahead already?
More likely, Temasek will seek the approval of MM and the PM, and one can only wonder if the SM's opinion is even sought.
In a January 2005, Herald Tribune reported "Temasek, which is wholly owned by the Ministry of Finance, has 90 billion Singapore dollars, or $55 billion, of assets and controls companies that account for 44 percent of the Straits Times index."
The Singapore Department of Statistic's February 2007 report had published the Singapore's Foreign Reserve as at US$136 BILLION.
It is very likely that Temasek has a huge operating funds that have NOT been transferred into the Reserves that require the approval of the President or Parliament.
Temasek's operating funds came from the Annual Surplus from this Government, who prefer to move the surplus into the various Government Linked Companies such as the GIC and Temasek - so as to allow itself a free hand to generate additional cash.
What is the real size of our Singapore Reserves ?
This 'gold mine' of 'loose cash' remains UNAUDITED in the annual reports from GIC and Temasek - and is probably the cause of LKY's nightmare that some other political party will take over the reins of Government, and let some sunlight to shine onto the accounts that have been kept in the dark since the incorporation of the GIC and Temasek.
To prevent this nightmare from happening, LKY had implemented the first obstacle that prevent any new Government - (formed by any other political party) - from spending any cash that has not been generated by itself.
In other words, all cash holdings generated by the present Ruling Party that formed the present Government will not be available to the next Ruling Party that form the next Government to run its own program - even if the next Ruling Party has the overwhelming support of the Singapore Population.
For the first term of any Government - formed by an Alternative Political Party elected - Singaporeans will have to tighten our belts and live in poverty or suffer higher taxes while the New Government generate its own surplus, whle the previous surplus and reserves continue to be managed by the GIC and Temasek with LKY and his daughter-in-law at the helm, respectively.
The other obstacle that LKY has put in place - is to have cronies from within the present Ruling Party to sit as Chairman and CEO of every one of the many Government Owned and Government Linked Companies in its huge stable.
Will all these Government Owned and Government Linked Companies submit themselves to any New Government formed by any other Political Party ?
The present Ruling Party that formed the present Government has set the foundation for a chaotic system that will not allow for any smooth transition of political rule in a Multi-Political Party System - such as that of the REAL First World Countries in West Europe, UK, USA; and closer to home in countries such as Australia, Philippines, India, and South Korea.