PAP moves to counter criticism of party, govt in cyberspace
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(Another example of cyber counter-insurgency from youngpap..perhaps by a minister)
47WYL18RW wrote:
Finger pointing may be so easy but avoiding problems or skiving is easy too. The leaders seem world-class and talented in the art of denial too.
it is said this is a PAI SAI.
you don't agree?
much has been said abt. what's wrong --how many have some articulation of what WORKS; what brings in investments, what makes the economy grow, what makes jobs galore with the necessities of foreign migrant labour.
finger pointing is sooo easy--solutions are hard.
So if they keep saying they are world-class and so very good and make all the people complain, they should be the ones to look in the mirror.
For the past 40 years apart from initial success in nation building, how talented are they in restructuring the moribund talk-only economy to value-add economy.
The Mah and the Yeo were only good in collecting more monies and all they did are bill collector jobs which are not worth half a peanut.
So do not put up such a false front of wellness for people are over-paying them to do a lousy job for so and still give them a chance to talk big despite their repeatedly failing to solve problems like found in NKF and shin corp.
People are pointing fingers only and they are lucky they are so patient. So which is at fault - people's finger or leaders' false front.
It is an over-inflated ego which causes all these problems. -
(Another example of cyberspace counter-insurgency as posted at youngpap site)
47WYL18RW wrote:
People have actually no real grouses against the rich but they do have a lot to say about the uncaring way the elites go about taking monies from the people, running up costs of living until average household needs an income of S$1,000.00 plus to survive. Yet wages are dropping and people are suffering due to thousands of job losses caused by such wrongful tax-and-recover policies.
does the talented and rich care a damm abt. what jealous pple said .
these rich and famous talents work their guts out; get their high salaries and put it in the banks with a big smile on their faces.
so--moan and groaning are soo effective.
poor will always be poor unless they get off their big bobbiees and do something.
Stop all the globalisation or no-free-lunch hypocrisy to deny problems caused by them or using GDP to claim superficial success as there are still hundreds of thousand lagging behind in arrears to HDB so there is no true wellbeing being reflected but only the GLCs and the public sector which in good time and bad are able to increase their fees through monopolies.
Do our elites have what it takes they are the real culprits and not the rich as such.
Do the younger ministers understand such problems as posted and more importantly do they have the gut to tell the MM to stop denying problems with excuses and taking away more monies by trickery and creative accounting from people's CPF savings. -
Not surprisingly you show your true level of maturity and intelligence in the above post... the rest of your positions are more or less simply in the same vein, except spun with more words.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:CSJ is a masochist who goes around asking people, "Hit me! Hit me!"
What CSJ is doing is quite clear to anybody who takes a moment to consider the big picture. He isn't in the game mainly to score points with Singaporeans, but instead to bring out the worst abuses of the ruling party for all to see.
However the way he does it is only semi-effective. The people who handle him may not take the cleanest path, but they are obviously treating him quite carefully so as to be able to justify most of their actions against him.
Obviously most people know going the way of CSJ is counter-productive, but then again he did open up a lot of eyes as to how far the powers that are will go to protect the status quo.
The ineffectiveness of your calls to tell Singaporeans here to "shut up and accept the status quo" shows that CSJ in some way... has been effective in swaying public opinion. While people do not agree with him or his methods, the more astute have eyes to see the extra stuff that is going on behind the scenes.
One needs to question the one party state is really the way to go, or that we should skew our systems of nation to avoid a strong alternative from developing. Your positions here seem to indicate utter trust in a government that you seem to think is infailable, dismissing the cracks that concerned people are pointing out and trying to sell a picture that is basically on the same level of turning white to black.
Are we set up like a plane with only one pilot? In which the chief pilot is so fixed on not letting his position ever be taken over that he never allows the copilot to have a full understanding of how to fly the plane? What happens when one day that pilot is unable to fly that plane anymore? -
papasaidso wrote:
We can live with the human chain as long as people are served and not treated like their targets to score points.
you listen to papa say:
dr lee got many fans.... all docs... or doggie docs lah?
she also got very powderful brokeback-mountain... father is chocalte king...
she already got rid of the formal head of head-wind gang. now she's their leader.... she wanted to be leader of AIRstar... see got ambition gal.... like father like daughter.... like lau lee, like girlee....but this lee is no girlee... one day she will be pm....
see what they say :
YOU(yew) GO(goh) LONG(loong) WAY(wei)!
Long has taken a long time now to find out people are not all that dumb and they could raise hell with nkf.
The solution is to come down to earth and serve diligently without all the dares and superlatives and be humble and let people be the ultimate judge. -
i see it as a move to confuse the netizen with half-truths,
by posing as a man in the street.
Just like the Duran sending his men to post in ST forums to praise him. -
It's fucked up. Plain and simple. And those who carry out this task, better think twice.Originally posted by SnowFlag:i see it as a move to confuse the netizen with half-truths,
by posing as a man in the street.
Just like the Duran sending his men to post in ST forums to praise him. -
i seriously doubt our forumers would be swayed by the various 'counter-criticisms' posted by these 'n00bs'.Originally posted by SnowFlag:Just like the Duran sending his men to post in ST forums to praise him.
Think that's what our highly paid scholars came up with... Durai's plan...
How ingenious. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Is that the best that you can offer from your understanding of what has been printed - a simple childish retort of the post being "yiu chou yiu chang".
Your usual lengthy posts have little substance and reminds me of the Chinese saying: "Wang da nian de luo jiao bu, yiu chou yiu chang"
Is it any wonder that you are the butt of everyone's joke, seeing where you have sunk your nose in to appreciate only the "yiu chou yiu chang".
It simply shows the depth of your intellect - which so far has produced nothing of any substance in all of your postings, allowing anyone without even a PhD qualification to debunk your postion so easily; and you even dare to boast so publicly of your qualification in this Forum.
Can you handle evidence ? You have consistently slinked away from further postings after evidence have been produced.
You do not have the guts of David Marshall to admit that the current government has done better that he could ever do with his puny efforts. Yet you dare to make such bold statements unsupported by any shred of evidence.
In your last post on 6 February 2007 06.32PM - you had also asked "First, where's your evidence that the majority of Singaporeans are employed by state-owned companies?" - my response showed that more 40 per cent of the capitalization on the Singapore Stock Exchange belonged to State Owned Companies - did you have the guts or the simple honesty to react to my reply that met your challenge for evidence ?
It seems that you had lost your voice for three days having been publicly debunked, and now have the audacity to write to me about not having guts to admit on facts.
David Marshall has never been as ruthless as LKY, and history has placed that on record - as even remarked in LKY's memoirs. David Marshall is obviously more of a gracious gentleman than LKY can possibly be - as seen from all public events on record.
Unfortunately, in his old age, David Marshall remained as naive and simplistic as he was in his younger days. Can David Marshall be as ruthless and an unforgiving critic as LKY has always been ?
Compared to David Marshall in his twilight years, LKY remains as sharp and ruthless as LKY had always been - never suffer any fools in his presence. While David Marshall had always been mild mannered, patient, and more generous towards those who are less fortunate than himself.
What about yourself, can any of your boastful PhD qualities and personal traits measure anywhere up to David Marshall's ankle ?
Instead of asking evidence from me to support my statements, why do you not produce any evidence to the contrary and debunk my position. Why do you slink quietly away when you have been so clearly exposed of your low intellect ?
The majority of Singaporeans choose to support the ruling party election after election ?
Just because the majority of Singaporeans choose to support the ruling party election after election does not mean they are brainwashed. It means we are not easily swayed by your vitriolic attacks on the government.
Only a uncritical simpleton will accept the results of the elections on its face value.
According to the Singapore Statistics Department 2006 Report - the Total Population of Singapore by June 2006 was 4.48 Million; with those in the age group between 15 to 64 numbering 2,603,900 and those above 65 years being 306,500.
According to the 2006 Election Results: the number of eligible voters were 2,158,704 - which compared to the age group of 15 - 65+ is about 74 percent.
The total voters that voted was 1,222,884 - which represent 56.6 per cent of all the eligible voters; and the voter turnout was 1,150,003 (which is 94.0% of the total voter count of 1,222,884.
The number of voters in walkover constituencies was 935,820 - which represent 43.4 per cent of the total eligible voters of 2,158,704 not being able to cast their votes.
Comparing to the total population of 4,480,000 - the total of 1,150,003 votes counted will represent only 25.66 per cent of the population.
Is it not even more shocking that of the 1,150,003 votes counted, the Ruling Party only managed to get 66.6 per cent of all the valid votes - a mere 765,901 out of a population of 4,480,000.
Did the majority of Singaporeans voted for the Ruling Party ?
Can you digest the evidence produced, or do you prefer to be blind sided by the slick self-serving propaganda that protect the interests of the Ruling Party ? -
continuation
Can we believe your delusionary statement that - "we are not prepared to gamble away our future properity to put this country into the hands of those who would not even respect our freedom to hold a different opinion "?
We may disagree with some of their policies but on the whole, the ruling party is a far safer pair of hands to entrust the future of this nation. We are not averse to risks, but we are not reckless. As investors, we are prepared to take some risks for higher potential returns, such as the move into the biomedical industry. But we are not prepared to gamble away our future prosperity to put this country into the hands of those who would not even respect our freedom to hold a different opinion.
Your statement sound hypocritical and is best repeated to some of the most intolerant and arrogant Singaporeans found in the Ruling Party.
Having said that, one can only wonder if your statement did not contradict your belief that Singapore is in a far safer pair of hands - in the Ruling Party - to entrust the future of this nation ?
Are you a hypocrite personified ?
With the current political practises and structures found in Singapore, it is designed to lead to some future chaos that will surely occur after the passing of LKY and his generation; and is forcing Singaporeans to be dependent on a ONE Party System.
The entire system left behind by the British Colonial Rulers have been systematically dismantled and replaced with a system that resemble in differing strong shades of a replica of a Communist System but only in name.
The Judiciary, Legal System, Civil Service, Police, Military, Public and Community Organisations have all been politicised, including Government Linked Companies - all manned by political appointees decided by the POWER of ONE.
Is there any plans or provisions for any orderly transfer of political power - as in any other Democratic Political System of a true First World Country ?
Or is the arrogance of the present POWER of ONE satisfied that it will be successful in preventing the Singapore Citizens from ever electing an Alternative Political Party to form a new Government ?
Even in the event of such a possible outcome - as nothing is ever impossible - has the present Government make any arrangements for an orderly transfer of power to the seat of Government, or has it prepared itself to maintain the reins of power by controlling all the NATIONAL ASSETS ?
When GCT became the PM, LKY had remarked to foreign press queries that the power is in the position of the Party Secretary-General - which reflects the power structure of a Communist Country.
The position of the Party Secretary-General was transferred to GCT only when he had shown himself to be unaffected to the challenge from LHL - as proven by his personal involvement in getting the best medical attention for LHL when he was discovered to be afflicted with cancer.
This transfer of party stewardship occurred some years after GCT became PM - when most countries will see the PM as the leader of his own political party.
If you believe that Singapore is in safe hands of the Ruling Party - you had better think again, when its founder had suggested that the SAF to mutiny and stage a Coup deÂ’tat and throw out any government formed by an Alternative Political Party.
If you think that CSJ is a masochist - is it not ironical that you are in the same boat as CSJ, coming back repeatedly only to be brow beaten for your foolishness ?
At least CSJ has a cause, what possibly can yours be ? -
OMG...Atobe..
That, was THE most thorough bombardment I have ever read from you!
BRAVO!! Such artful writings!
Precision demolition at its very highest level!
Hail almighty Atobe!!!
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Anywhere else in the world CSJ would have been dismissed as a clown for some of his antics. Yet this man was sent to jail for those acts! The world now has a clear unbridled view of how ruthless the system here is.Originally posted by Atobe:continuation
If you think that CSJ is a masochist - is it not ironical that you are in the same boat as CSJ, coming back repeatedly only to be brow beaten for your foolishness ?
At least CSJ has a cause, what possibly can yours be ?
While there is not much the world can do about P*P's antics in Sgp, at the least it is comforting to know that they can never export their "Robber State" (the other extreme of a welfare state) ideology to the rest of the world.
It is comforting to know that the world will never give any world leadership roles to any Sgp establishment figure, no matter how much they boast of their dubious achievements in Sgp.
The way LHL was questioned by the NZ press in front of Helen Clark is CSJ's achievement. -
Great postings from Atobe and Robertteh... MIW guys, you got to read it!
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Thanks to our community of forumers who could tell the right from wrong and not accepting any nkf.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Great postings from Atobe and Robertteh... MIW guys, you got to read it! -
It is a pity that such truth are not read by people or thought about it, which was only viewed by the mostly thousand of people compared to million of citizen in Singapore.
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It is even more interesting to note the muted (if any) response from people who cheers the government's every move.
i.e: some guys who actually BELIEVES that the 7% GST can really HELP the poor... -
Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:
If that's the case, why not increase it to 50% since it will help the poor even more.
It is even more interesting to note the muted (if any) response from people who cheers the government's every move.
i.e: some guys who actually [b]BELIEVES that the 7% GST can really HELP the poor...[/b]
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shhhhh!!! don't give them any ideas like that!Originally posted by charlize:If that's the case, why not increase it to 50% since it will help the poor even more.
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It will likely hit 10% by the end of the decade or the start of the next.Originally posted by the Bear:shhhhh!!! don't give them any ideas like that! -
Rationale for the hike to 10%?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:It will likely hit 10% by the end of the decade or the start of the next.
To help the middle income families. -
one of my favourite movies, Metropolis... by Fritz Lang
the writeup in wiki says this:
The film is set in the year 2026, in the extraordinary Gothic skyscrapers of a corporate city-state, the Metropolis of the title. Society has been divided into two rigid groups: one of planners or thinkers, who live high above the earth in luxury, and another of workers who live underground toiling to sustain the lives of the privileged. The city is run by Johhan 'John' Fredersen (Alfred Abel).
sounds ominous? -
Originally posted by the Bear:one of my favourite movies, Metropolis... by Fritz Lang
the writeup in wiki says this:
The film is set in the year 2026, in the extraordinary Gothic skyscrapers of a corporate city-state, the Metropolis of the title. Society has been divided into two rigid groups: one of planners or thinkers, who live high above the earth in luxury, and another of workers who live underground toiling to sustain the lives of the privileged. The city is run by Johhan 'John' Fredersen (Alfred Abel).
sounds ominous? -
very soon we'll all be eating soylent green
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1984, Animal Farm, Metropolis, ..
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Sorry for the bumping up of this thread and I really have to clarify that I only read the first and last page of this thread. Here r some of my thinkings regarding the issues
Firstly by looking at the last page of tis thread, I find a lot of verbal abuses on oxford mushroom particularly. For some of the posters here, the verbal abuse seems to span more than half of the reply they made... Tis is particularly unhealthy for discussion and I find tat similar in many ways on how the PAP act. They silence opposition and mudsling them, some posters here silence and mudsling opposition as well. Have they become the people they hate themselves ? Or tis is just naturally due to the heat of discussion, similar to heated discussion and passion on politics and how PAP deal with CSJ ? In any case replies can be refered by the points and they and less on the person tat say it
On the issue of feedback, I tend to agree tat the gov should treat opposition more leeway and seek their opinion more. But if u ask whether have they opened up more after Lee Hsien Long, I tend to agree with tat statement. But they may not "open up" for opposition, they "open up" for population here. In many decision they do hear wat the population say such as casino where there is a lengthy decision making process and the polticians do address issues make by the population. According to them they seek the pros and cons and hear opinions before deciding to go ahead. On hanging of the australian guy, they do seek feedback and come out with statistic tat singaporean prefer the existence of the death penalty. And surprisingly for the last election, no opposition is sued till bankrupt. The past previous elections someone is bound to be sued. I think there r signs tat the country is opening up. Has it opened up enough is another question
On the problems singapore population faces, I got to ask is it the problem of capitalism problem or is it the problem of politician here ? On the first page robertteh mention public housing earns a profit based on construction cost, and not look at land cost. Now which city in the world offer free land for housing for the poorer people ? Do Shanghai give free land for housing ? Neh... Do tokyo give free land for housing ? Much worse... Do New York give free land for housing ? Nope. Do our neighbour KL give free land ? Also no. All these cities that were mentioned r bigger than singapore themselves and they all charge a high price for the land. All gov consider their land as their precious resources and seek to earn tax from it. In a way it is good since the people who own more land, less efficient with land and stay in a good location generally pay more tax than others. Tis is not the problem of singapore, every city faces tis problem. It is the problem of capitalism.
About whether should we have the idea of "scholars" and emphasis on study result, I think to be fair, wat other telltale signs do we have when we want to employ a good person ? Tat is why generally education level and having a good CV land u in a better job isn't it ? Don't look at the public sector, look at the private sector. Most of them still look at education level. We cannot blame parents for pushing their children to study hard, and we cannot solely push the blame to gov and not to the companies here as well. Talking about Bill gates or other successful people, it is true tat there r such talents. But then again bill gates himself still use education qualification as a gauge in recruiting people
http://www.microsoft.com/college/ft_salesmktgsvcs.mspx
Qualifications:
• BA in Business, Information Technology, Information Science, Computer Engineering, or Computer Science required
• MCSE, MCT, or MOUS certification helpful
• Presentation experience and Microsoft product and business knowledge desired.
Anyway I probably not going into tis discussion again after tis reply. I think tis is too time consuming and too bad I am not paid to do tis Just some points on the other side of the fence to reflect. -
There is a big difference between how the Govt silences the Opposition and how silencing is done here, unless you are suggesting we are also a bunch of autocrats who rule by the sword. OM has consistently not backed up his arguments and in the rules of debate, that can be regarded both as disrespectful and dishonest. Hammering him for not backing his arguments is a direct end result.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Firstly by looking at the last page of tis thread, I find a lot of verbal abuses on oxford mushroom particularly. For some of the posters here, the verbal abuse seems to span more than half of the reply they made... Tis is particularly unhealthy for discussion and I find tat similar in many ways on how the PAP act. They silence opposition and mudsling them, some posters here silence and mudsling opposition as well. Have they become the people they hate themselves ? Or tis is just naturally due to the heat of discussion, similar to heated discussion and passion on politics and how PAP deal with CSJ ? In any case replies can be refered by the points and they and less on the person tat say it
Go read some of the other threads where OM was involved and see his high handedness in debates and you will understand the level of consternation with regard with debating with him.