IRAQ! 1000 Dead in a week!
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It's time for my bi-monthly state of the war in Iraq posts. So here's the latest:
1) A single suicide bomber detonated his bomb killing over 100 people at a crowded Baghadad market. News sources confirm that the attack takes the toll of civilians in Iraq to 1000 in just one week alone.
2) The Guardian reported that Sunni insurgence might have in their hands a new Anti-Air missile speculated to be the SA-18. This new weapon is reportedly used in the downing of three U.S military helicopters and a civilian helicopter over the last couple of weeks. The attacks have prompted U.S commanders to alter their procedures regarding chopper flights over Iraq
3) President Bush, as part of his 'troop surge' strategy is to deploy an additonal 21,000 troops to Iraq. Not surprisingly, most Americans are against the latest surge according to poll numbers.
4) President Bush will be asking for an extra US$100 billion to fund the war in Iraq in budgetry estimates for the year 2007-2008.
5) The Democratic-controlled Senate is to vote on a non-binding resolution opposing President Bush's new strategy
The other day on Anderson 360 shown on CNN, CNN's Baghdad Correspondent Michael Ware was interviewed on the situation in Baghad. He suggests that Iraq is curretly encapsulated in 4 'Hidden Wars' - the War against Al-Qaeda, the war against the Sunni insurgence, the war between Sunnis and Shites and the hidden war against Iran
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0702/01/acd.02.html
A really insightful discussion for those of you who have a chance to watch it. -
It was the fourth US helicopter to be downed in less than two weeks. News say its Apache.Originally posted by Quincey:It's time for my bi-monthly state of the war in Iraq posts. So here's the latest:
2) The Guardian reported that Sunni insurgence might have in their hands a new Anti-Air missile speculated to be the SA-18. This new weapon is reportedly used in the downing of three U.S military helicopters and a civilian helicopter over the last couple of weeks. The attacks have prompted U.S commanders to alter their procedures regarding chopper flights over Iraq -
yes and the latest incident claimed both the pilot's life. recall reading something about it last week. it was said that three out of the four downed helicopters are apache.Originally posted by qpicanto:It was the fourth US helicopter to be downed in less than two weeks. News say its Apache. -
My ME's frds said more than this even 2 yrs ago!!! -
all helicopters are vulnerable to ground fire, that's why they later installed those machine guns for supression fire. due to weight constraint, one can't outfit a helicopter with additional armour plating like a humvee.
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According wikipedia : at least 91 helicopters and 13 fixed-wing aircraft from both the American military and Coalition forces have crashed in Iraq since the 2003 invasion.Originally posted by YI:yes and the latest incident claimed both the pilot's life. recall reading something about it last week. it was said that three out of the four downed helicopters are apache. -
Good that there was this mid term election for the US voters to cast their ballot papers against the Iraq war. Even after losing both houses, President Bush wanted more troops and sacrifices to ensure victory. At least his wings are clipped.
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even a humvee wouldn;t stand a chance against a SA-18..would it?Originally posted by YI:all helicopters are vulnerable to ground fire, that's why they later installed those machine guns for supression fire. due to weight constraint, one can't outfit a helicopter with additional armour plating like a humvee. -
Originally posted by 4getmenot:even a humvee wouldn;t stand a chance against a SA-18..would it?
Not if humvee learns to fly
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Wonder what they were using against Apache....cannot be that high tech.
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I think the Americans are locked in a Catch-22 situation in Iraq, wanna withdraw also cannot withdraw. Withdraw and you would see a regional conflict along secterian lines - most prob the Saudis and the whole gang will support the Sunnis and the Iranians support the Shites. A couple of weeks ago, the Jordanians announce that they are exploring a possible nuclear programme. So if America withdraws, the consequances will be unimaginable. However, if they dun withdraw, they can only sustain and preserve the current situation. There are just too many factions with their self-vested interest in line playing the game, so it's almost impossible to make them come to a consensus which will benefit all.
America, with 160,000 troops on the ground just lack the manpower to bring about any credible changes on the ground using sheer military force, esp with the Iranians cementing their foothold within the Shite community and the Sunnis turning to Al-Qaeda. This so called 'surge' is the last throw of the dice la, if the American forces fail to pacify Baghdad and the Sunni areas, the future of Iraq looks bleak as it already is. -
I correct myself. It was an AP article which quoted an insurgency saying that it was a SA-18. Russian made. No surprise really given that such weapons are stewned all over the former Soviet Union. All you need is a contact, and you'll get anything from the old Soviet or even modern Russian armory. But if it's really an SA-18, those pilots better start saying their 'Hail Marys'.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Wonder what they were using against Apache....cannot be that high tech. -
Insurgents have used SA-7s, a shoulder-fired missile with an infrared homing device, against U.S. and British aircraft since 2003.Originally posted by Quincey:I correct myself. It was an AP article which quoted an insurgency saying that it was a SA-18. Russian made. No surprise really given that such weapons are stewned all over the former Soviet Union. All you need is a contact, and you'll get anything from the old Soviet or even modern Russian armory. But if it's really an SA-18, those pilots better start saying their 'Hail Marys'.
In an Internet statement, the al-Qaida-affiliated Islamic State of Iraq claimed responsibility for the latest crash -- an Apache Longbow helicopter that went down Friday north of Baghdad, killing two crew members.
"We tell the enemies of God that the airspace of the Islamic State in Iraq is prohibited to your aircraft just like its lands are," the statement said. "God has granted new ways for the soldiers of the State of Iraq to confront your aircraft."
It was unclear whether the "new ways" referred to new and advanced anti-aircraft weapons -- such as SA-18 missiles -- or was simply a boast.
U.S. military helicopters are equipped with long-range sensors and devices to jam radar and infrared technology, but they have proven vulnerable to intense gunfire, as well as rocket-propelled grenades.
Al-Jazeera showed a grainy 15-second video, filmed from the ground, which showed a helicopter plunging with a trail of black smoke emanating from it. It said the video was of the Apache hit Friday near Taji in central Iraq. The authenticity of the video could not be immediately verified.
Taken from AP. -
well, i would guess that the definition/purpose of suppression fire is to prevent the smart alex from firing off the sa-18 in the first place.Originally posted by 4getmenot:even a humvee wouldn;t stand a chance against a SA-18..would it? -
i am not sure if that list had been updated but i had just read that another ch-46 crashed today. there are twenty nine persons onboards when it came down and there is no leaks/news on the fatalities/casaulties yet.Originally posted by qpicanto:According wikipedia : at least 91 helicopters and 13 fixed-wing aircraft from both the American military and Coalition forces have crashed in Iraq since the 2003 invasion. -
Cannot stomach another fatality news already. Too bloody.Originally posted by YI:i am not sure if that list had been updated but i had just read that another ch-46 crashed today. there are twenty nine persons onboards when it came down and there is no leaks/news on the fatalities/casaulties yet.
another chopper crashed 'jialat' (clarify: hokkien dialect for bad, nothing to do with 'jihad') -
Well, flying over an Urban landscape, there is very little a chopper can do when facing shoulder held Anti-air missiles. You see the threat, the most you can do is to deploy counter-measures and manouver your chopper from being hit. It'll prob work against the antiquated SA-7s, but if you're talking abt the SA-18s, that is a whole different proposition. Furthermore, it can deployed from a longer range.
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Well, I think this is what we are gonna hear of everyday from now on or rather his so-called 'surge' will just bring about more gore. As they say 'when the going gets tough, the tough gets going'. I'm sure these insurgence have sold their souls to the cause and would diligently ammulate the above maxim. I sure do not think the American Coalition with all it's might can previal over these insurgents, the forces are just too stretched and unknowing to understand the full complexity of the situation they are dealing with. The systemic failure of the war can be brought down to one major factor and that is lack of knowledge of the occupied culture. This is just so telling when Bush declared on that aircreaft carrier the end of operations in Iraq. He has no idea that it had all just started.
A friend of mine disagrees, and counters that Iraq is as it is, because the Americans needed a 'hot zone' in the Middle East to fight Al-Qaeda. He sighted the fact that America since 2001 has not faced any terrorist attack on American soil. Point taken. But it is more than Al-Qaeda we're talking about now. You're talking civil war; talking a proxy war with Iran; a potential arms race in the Middle East. If anything, the road to cripple Al-Qaeda does not rest in creating a 'hot zone' in the Middle East, it lies with destroying what Al-Qaeda stands for - and that is militancy propogaded by the social injustices Muslims around the world face. That is what draws individuals to Al-Qaeda and that can be quashed by one, finding a permanent solution to the Palestinian cause.