how many of you singaporeans are actually anti-malaysia?
-
Kampong pig. NATO refering to you is it? HAHAHAHAHA. How come so fast nothing to say already? F*** back to your kampong and be pig!
-
Commando : U r very farnie .... U must be a racist person .... dont be leeeeeeeeee ... be a good boi.....Wanna be HERO???? ..... K lor... U r a HERO in ere ..... Keyboard Hero.
U r wasting ur time?? .... I think so too.. after all I will be in ere for a long...long...TIME..... EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!
As for reading ENGLISH ...... yeah..U r rite.. I cant read ..... wat to do.... I'm learning from U....ie. KNN ..CCB ... eh.. Spore. ppl I tot... speak Mandrin?? wat happen to that??.... Now English??..*laff*
I teach U my alien language ........ U ready ...... muahahahahahaaaaaaa
FUKU2 LEEEEEEEEEEEEE ... muthafarker!!!!!!!
If I'm wasting ur time ... PLEASE DONT REPLY.
Brave : Yes..Boi ....err.. ur writing oso kinda short .... why must U type .. F***??
In this world U can type ... FUCK!!!! ... eh.. U oso Copycat ... I think there is a topic about that too ... go and read it.
Kinda Interesting U know .... BTW .... I have reply to ur Posting oledy ... go and read ...K ... then dont forget to reply BACK.
I will be waiting .... *laff*
I just cannot be a PIG ...... sorry K. IF U could..by all means... transform urself.
U..... Hero leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!! -
So finally decided to write long? HAHAHAHAHA. I shall see how long can you write? You enjoy being a copy cat? I copy you. FUCK ALL KAMPONG PIG! Ask your all good governments to FUCK those pigs. HAHAHAHAHA
Thanks for you informing me. I have also replied your post. Warn you in advance go and standby some medicine before reading. Don't get too woke up and landed yourself in somewhere else. HAHAHAHAHA.
You cann't be pig? Thought you already admit you are a pig in the other post? HAHAHAHAHA. Contradict yourself again. HAHAHAHAHA
[This message has been edited by Brave (edited 17 August 2000).] -
tsk tsk....
i really feel ashamed by all this....
no point in me trying to defend, for u guys are oni out to flame, u dun c the truth in the words....
and snafu really ish a nice person...
u all dun base ur judgements on what he post in the net....
u muz noe him then u can tell
------------------
Let me embrace u in my arms, to protect u from harm.
Let me be the one to feel the pain, for I can't bear to c u in suffering.
Let me show u what my love can do for u, touch my heart the way I am going to touch urs.... -
angeldark:
If you really want to help him. I don't mind debating with you here. I feel that you still don't see the point. Why do you think that there are people like Andrewtay, Commando in this topic, Sunray in singapore at war topic, Crazehorse and Buttwiser in the topic in chit chat flaming him?
What do you mean by don't see true in words? If a person do not have this type of thought, would he post such things? Don't tell me he just post to attract attention or just nothing to do post for fun?
Do you side a person regardless whether he right or wrong just because he is your friend? Please comment on this in your next reply. -
Brave, i re-emphasize on what i had said, i am looking at it from MY view point.
i read the replies again, and i still think that u all misunderstood him....
he may not be able to express himself in a way u all understand, but name calling?
to malays of course pig ish really a rude term.. so wad does that make u?
remeber, humans are all the same, degrading one human, means u r degrading urself.
and, the others juz join in the flame bcause they oni read the post like u did, oni on the surface...
if u read it carefully, u will understand that it ish true... furthermore, he ish malaysian, and this topic sparks off patriosm in him, ish that wrong?
so he cannot counter this topic's statement, and u all can pick on him because he ish alone?
that i state again, ish not fair...
and the way he speaks is in a way freedom of speech ish practiced... so does that mean he cannot say wad he likes?
i do not wish to be rude to any one of u here, but i find the urge to say this: "fuku leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee to all Snafu flamers"
------------------
Let me embrace u in my arms, to protect u from harm.
Let me be the one to feel the pain, for I can't bear to c u in suffering.
Let me show u what my love can do for u, touch my heart the way I am going to touch urs.... -
Arrrggghhhhhhhhh .... I been writing and writing and writing .... then ... cannot send.
Geeeeeeeeeeeee .... will write again tomorrow ... sorry guys .
I will be Back ..... heheheheheheeeeeee -
hmmm
this person really dunch noe the meaning of words, and now he goes for personal attacks... no point in me going to tok sense out of a person wif no sense...
------------------
Let me embrace u in my arms, to protect u from harm.
Let me be the one to feel the pain, for I can't bear to c u in suffering.
Let me show u what my love can do for u, touch my heart the way I am going to touch urs.... -
*stretches and yawnzzz*
Waahhh.......I didn't know speakers' corner so happening suddenly?? Woahhhh.....Hot siaz!
Oh well......I see the topic arrrhh...I come in take a look and wala!!! My eyes nearly popped out man!
Cool it lah ppl. I will onlie respond with respect to the topic I see and write about how I feel loh.
Me Singaporean...... but anti-malaysians?? Nah....if I anti-malaysians, it is equivalent to being anti-human-beings. :p
Hmmmm...... Oh yeah...... I always encounter some weird attitudes whenever I go to Malaysia. Once I admit that I am from Singapore, the locals seem to treat me with apprehension. Of course, some Singaporeans may just react instantly and choose to get reallie mad loh. But then again, has it not occur to us that the reason why we are being treated like that is becoz we treated them the same way? Oh yeah......talk about contributing to their 'shopping economy'. I like to go there shop shop at times. And I open my eyes BIGBIG to see what is happening. I see many Singaporeans, who are armed with lotsa 'strong' currencies, shopping like kings and queens there loh. Ohh....I do admire their money power. But once I see the way these very same Singaporeans treat Malaysians who are serving them hor, I feel ashame. They treat the locals like some slaves or servants, looking down on them (superiority complex since Singapore is flourishing?). Woooahhhh.....now tell me, who likes to be looked down upon huh?? Do you? If we answered 'yes' and swear that we will not react instinctively to those ppl who looked down on us, I think our screw loose leh. :p
That means whatever treatment we give to others, we get whatever treatment in return.
I just went to KL. My friend from PJ voluntarily acted as our tour guide for the two whole days we were there. He is a Malaysian but he is willing to bring us ard loh. Oh yes! Who can resist shopping in KL (esp. Sungei Wang)? I went there and I get different treatments. Some salesgals just automatically stay away from me once they know I am a Singaporean. I dun bite but why? Must be some other Singaporeans 'bitten' them before loh, I guess. As much as they are stereotyping us, we are also guilty of stereotyping them aren't we? Then hor......got some salesppl talk to me like I am their friend. They got a shock when they finally realised I am from Singapore. But nevertheless, they still con't talking to us. Why? Perhaps me and my friends treated them as our equals and they find it weird that we are not locals?? Hmm.....points to ponder....
Its not about Singaporeans vs Malaysians loh. Its about human vs human. In our daily lives, the very same thing is happening. I get ppl looking down at me and I will fight to maintain my dignity. Sounds familiar huh? I have many of such experiences. For example, I am a woman so must be destined to be looked down upon by some men? So I should 'prevent' myself from instinctively switching on my defense mode and act like a weak demure lady when kena insulted? Or should I condemn ALL men as a result? The list goes on and on...... I believe everyone of us have our own stories to relate wat.... heheheaaa.........the same concept applies lah.
Or course, within each 'category' of the human race, there are sub-catogories leh. We have to recognise the fact that within each category or sub-categories, black sheeps exist. Or sometimes, some ppl are generally nice but act noti and weirdly at times. We have to make allowances for that occasional outbursts mah.
So....... some Malaysians are farked up doesn't mean all are farked up. Some Singaporeans are farked up doesn't mean all are farked up. But we also cannot stop others from forming their own opinions. So just voice your own opinions loh but hor, before stereotyping others, we should look at ourselves first. ARE WE QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO GO CRITICISE OTHERS???? If we can swear that we are pure and 100% free of sins, then we go hantum others. I am still waiting for this day but errrr.....sorrie....hehea....dun think human-beings can be 100% pure. :p
Oh well......good and nasty ppl. We meet them all the time. What for just becoz of a few nasty ppl, we go stereotype so many others and deny ourselves of potential good buddies? "NO MAN IS AN ISLAND" We need one another to live in this world, whether we like it or not (directly or indirectly). Why should we reduce our chances of survival by 'hantuming' our own human race?
Whatever that is good now can turn bad one day and watever that is bad now can turn good one day...... Who knows wat is good and wat is bad for definite? :p
IRC and forums are just part of the virtual world. Teasing and 'suaning' here and there is definitely fine (fun wat??). We can even take a further step and show our anger or views or even discrimination too. But personal attacks? Nah.....better not leh, coz not nice mah. And also, one is onlie qualified to do personal attacks on a person when one oredi knows that person well and has met and communicate with that person before in real life. Only then there is a basis to criticise leh. :p Ehh.....since when sgforums become flaming ground?
O.kee ler......I think I have given my two cents worth. Dun flame me leh, coz I am just a 'Lao Char bo' trying to voice her thoughts loh.
Good luck to allzzz....
------------------
I aM WhO I aM,
ItS iMpOsSiBle To bE aNy MoRe Or LeSs......
[This message has been edited by TinDonGal (edited 18 August 2000).] -
angeldark:
You are looking at your point of view, so be it. I AM ALSO LOOKING AT MY POINT OF VIEW. If you want me to respect your point of view, than why can't you respect other people point of view?
You keep claiming he is a nice person, we misunderstood him etc etc. Ask yourself this question 1 more time, will a nice person said such provocative words? Will a nice person being flamed by so many people after 2 posts? From my point of view, he is definitely not a nice person.
You yourself better go see carefully who is the person started calling names. Who started using provocative words?
Yes I keep using the word pig. 1st place I didn't know he is a non-Chinese. Further more flaming a person you still expect me to use nice words? I not a kind buddha! I wouldn't be kind to people who post offensive words.
Don't talk to me about what human degrading yourself themself etc etc. Just look who is the person who started all this.
Don't look at the surface what do you expect us to do? E mail him and ask him? Ask him out to talk to him? Wake up! Many things we are unable to go deep into many issue. If he will to post the reply in a proper ways, do you think others will flame him?
It spark off his patroism. Don't forget his replies also spark off our patroism. Am I wrong to defend our country in this case?
He cannot counter? You read carefully how he rebute all the post against. He is all alone? You know why he is all alone? That is because he posted something against the majority. Just like many things in the world. You can't expect everything to go your ways. You have to accept it as a fact of life.
Than how you think it is fair? He can said what he like, so are we. In this case do you mean only he can express his point of view and we can't? We all share common view point and go against him.
I also wish to settle things peacefully with you. But now I don't see the need. FUCK YOUR MOTHER CHAO CHEE BYE ANGELDARK! This is in return to you. YOU NOT HAPPY TRY CHALLENGE ME!
Let me tell you small kid, you better wake up. From what I know about you from your post. You are a arrogant fool who keep thinking highly of yourself. You desprise all those kopitiam 1 liners. You post things like "listen up" etc etc. This is a forum and it is open to all. Don't think just because you register earlier means you can be bossy around.
You are only looking at the point of view of him. You are not looking at things in a general point of view at all. Just like what naivegirl said about you in the other post in chit chat.
Ask yourself this question:
1. Why did he post this 2 posts?
2. Why are there so many people against him?
If you continue to stick to your dreamland, so be it. I can debate with you all the way. -
FUCK U ALL LAH~!~!!~!~!~!~~!!~~!
GO TO THE FUCKING CORNER AND FUCKING GO FUCK A DOG AND GET SERIOUS DISEASES LAH~!!~
WAKE UP UR IDEAS CAN OR NOT?
IF U ALLOWED HIM TO SPEAK HIS MIND, THEN U ALL SHLDN'T FLAME HIM UNTIL SO BADLY, AND TAKING IT SO PERSONAL....
BASICALLY, U R NOT WRONG... HE IS NOT WRONG
BUT U BLOODY IDIOTS JUZ HAD TO FLAME HIM BY CALLING HIM NAMES, COMPARING WHO IS BETTER, PROVOKING HIM TO USE VULGAR LANGUAGE AT U
FUCKING HELL
U HAF NO FUCKING HUMANE SENSE IN U ANY MORE
FURTHERMORE, U JUDGE PPL FROM THEIR POST, AND THAT IS NEVER THE TRUTH
U JUZ LET THINGS BECOME SO FUCKING PERSONAL
SO WHAT ?
I DUN CARE Y OR HOW, BUT U FUCKING IDIOTS HAF GAINED A SPACE IN THE HEARTS OF THE REGULARS
A BUNCH OF FUCKED UP, FUCKING NO GOOD FUCKERS THAT GO ARD FUCKING THEMSELVES IN THE CORNER..
ANGELDARK IS ARROGANT?
HAF U MET HIM?
HAF U REALLY TOKED TO HIM B4?
BLOODY HELL, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE TRUTH, AND U CAN NEVER TELL WHETHER THE PERSON IS REALLY JUZ PLAYING ARD OR REALLY SERIOUS...
IDIOTIC I TELL U.. FUCKING LAMERS.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
------------------
Let me be the soul reaver to reap the sunken souls and let me be the one to release you from your agony, for i am the reaper man -
That was what SNAFU posted on the 10 August 2000 01:50 AM in 'Singapore At War'.Originally posted by SNAFU:...
Did Ur MINDEF tell the ppl. about how ur Harpoon miss???...geeee how can that happen??? ... Did Ur MINDEF tell U about how ur Commandos .. were caught at Msian waters trying to sneek in?? Did Ur MINDEF tell the ppl. about ur Heli & Jet planes lost their ways and miss their marker???? Well...of coz not ..... there is more to it ... even ur Submarine ... there is a story to it too... Y dont U ask ur NAVY about it....or to the one that can get all the leak info ....they can tell U... but of coz... non of the person in ere.... coz they r just not there when it happen.... Did MINDEF tells U ... that all the Tank which waz invented/modified by ur ARMY cant even fire a single round???? ... of coz.. they tell U that they can fire rounds...... the truth??? NO ..IT CANT EVEN FIRE A SINGLE ROUND. U donno??... How about ur ground force?? Lost in a jungle and need ranger to rescue them...awwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeee ...so sweet. Coz U r not there to see it.
Those people standing with this Truth-speaking Malaysian ask yourselves. You think this is true?
We FUCKED this bastard because he tried to mislead people with wrong info. If he had talk sense, truth and convince people to believe him. Do you think we will FUCK his mouth?
Commando/SOF sneek into Malaysia? Just Think lah... If Singapore want to 'spy' on Malaysia do you think we will swim over the coast and pray not being caught or just rather walk over the causeway in plain clothes with the excuse of visiting relatives.Originally posted by SNAFU:...
Did Ur MINDEF tell the ppl. about how ur Harpoon miss???...geeee how can that happen??? ... Did Ur MINDEF tell U about how ur Commandos .. were caught at Msian waters trying to sneek in??
Now Singaporean guys, let us not condemn this guy anymore because I think he is too young to understand all this.
In fact, I believe he is only a 12 year old child who have not even seen a real M16. Perharp not even a real chee bye.
SNAFU, you understand what is a Chee bye or not? Chee bye is used to describe someone like you who lied.
If you think that all these are unnecessary then dun lie in here. Now understand why we FUCK you? -
okok
now i come in peace and i dont want to flame anyone
ok
look
no matter who started it...
no matter what has it caused...
all i noe ish he ish ready to stop..
i am oso tired of it
u all may say wad u all want
but still
personal flaming ish no gd...
and u all juz based ur judgements in these posts.. so u may never noe how the person really ish in real life
the internet ish where we become braver to post, but it sumtimes shld be taken wif a pinch of salt...
not that i am still siding snafu
but i find that this discussion is getting too far liaozz....
so i expect no more flames from u all
and i sincerely apologize to all whom i scolded
sorry...
------------------
Let me embrace u in my arms, to protect u from harm.
Let me be the one to feel the pain, for I can't bear to c u in suffering.
Let me show u what my love can do for u, touch my heart the way I am going to touch urs.... -
EErrrr......the man in question has oredi posted something in "SNAFU" thread in chit-chat. And he has oredi explained everything. Pls kindly go update leh.
No one is wrong here. Everyone has a right to assume some online indentity or voice out their thoughts or something. Its just that we must also make allowances for mistakes at times and not just jump on the wagon with blazing torches. Comeon ppl.....can chill or not?? Pls also go read the reality vs cyberworld thread in chit-chat.
The whole event should stop and someone has oredi taken a first step to stop, so are you also ready to stop?
From wat I see, I understand that there are ppl who are out here to defend their rights and of course, their country. But pls note that there are reallie lamers out there who just sieze the opportunity and turn the whole thing into a big mega racist thing. If we choose to get angry and start bombing again, we are onlie helping these lamers ascend in their quests to 'hyber-rasicm'. Go check out how many racism posts that have been appearing since this unpleasant incident. This is how politics work isn't it? Just some smart-alecs who make use of some chaotic situation in their favour. Do we wanna be some tools to these ppl? I would answer a big 'NO'.
If we reallie wanna discuss this Singaporean vs Malaysian thingy, we should do it diplomatically. There should never be any personal attacks or stereotyping. Dun becoz of a few ppl then go condemn the whole group. Or.... dun becoz of a person's mistake and go condemn the person forever.
All these condemning will onlie spark off many other things and the vicious cycle goes on and on. Wats the point? Do we wanna sit in front of the PC everyday and fume? Waaah..... I certainly dun wanna do that coz my life will be shortened man..... :p
O.keee....I think my points have gotten across leow.
------------------
I aM WhO I aM,
ItS iMpOsSiBle To bE aNy MoRe Or LeSs...... -
H3l|_CUSTOM:
You so interested to fuck is it? Than go Geylang! There a lot of fuck for you. If you want free fuck go Changi, there many people will give you free fuck. You fucker!
A person need to be responsible for what he said. If he didn't said anything wrong. Why are there so many people flaming him? He being flamed badly? Just look at how he posted in the first place. Open your big bloody eyes and read carefully you fucker.
We don't have humane sense? So you trying to tell me he have? You trying to tell me you have? What a great joke, fucker!
A post is never the true? Than you tell me what is the true? Are you going to tell me what he posted is not the true? He don't have the thought for what he posted. Fucker!
We gain a space in the heart of regulars? Didn't know we so popular now. HAHAHAHAHA. I also don't care what the fuck you all think of me. You all are just a bunch of ignorant fool who only side your friend regardless he in the right or wrong. A bunch of blind idiots!
We all fucking here? Aren't you fucking here also. Welcome to the fucking place. Lets fuck together.
angeldark is simply arrogant fool to me. Just look at his post. Bossing around everytime. Talking as if he is the grandfather of sgforum.
Ya ya ya, internet is never the true. In internet everybody is lying. Only a fool like you think so. So he is also lying that Malaysia is better? HAHAHAHAHA:
angeldark:
I also do not have the intention of having any war with you.
No matter who started it, who in the right who in the wrong is no longer a question now. If you willing to settle things, I wouldn't go on flaming you.
Personally I flame him based on the 2 posts he posted here. As I already said many time, a nice person wouldn't post such things. Althought cyberworld usually is the not the true, still no person should post this type of offensive posts. A person will only post something on his mind. That is what I strongly believe. If a person do not have this mentality, he wouldn't have posted something like that. A person need to answer for what he posted.
I am not a forum regular, I never met anyone of you here before. I have nothing to lose out. However I believe most of the regulars here have met each other before. It is also not good to know someone among you all being flamed. Imagine some regulars who never met snafu before were to met him one day. What will be the impression he gave him?
I accept your apology and at the same time I am also willing to apologise to you for my ruddness. It is also very wrong for me to scold you in the first place when you didn't do anything wrong and worst of all saying you arrogant.
Hereby I take it as the problem between us is settled.
And the problem between me and snafu is more or less settle in chit chat. So I will not go into provoking him anymore.
*brave offer to shake hand with angeldark*
[This message has been edited by Brave (edited 19 August 2000).] -
*me shakes hands wif brave*
ok
now i am outta here...
i dun wish to be involved in political stuff....
but i do bother to read loh....
------------------
Let me embrace u in my arms, to protect u from harm.
Let me be the one to feel the pain, for I can't bear to c u in suffering.
Let me show u what my love can do for u, touch my heart the way I am going to touch urs.... -
Wow, I can't believe I actually missed this thread for so long!
There's a lot of issues here. But perhaps most outstandingly is the social-political landscape. If you ask me who's better and who's worse, personally I'll tell you that Singaporeans and Malaysians are the same. We've got the same religious and multiracial components, the same diverse SE Asian culture, and same Asian attitudes and values, like Confucianism.
Firstly, it's very easy to blame one's leaders, for it's they who apply and instigate the social and economic changes. No doubt there's much distrust between Malaysians and Singaporeans. But after having lived both in Malaysia and Singapore, I came to the conclusion that it's the adminstration who's responsible for a country's successes and failures.
Honestly, there's jealousy against Singaporeans. But why didn't it turn out as healthy competition, and instead ended up as detest? The Malaysian adminstration is a major reason. In order to pacify the Malaysian population, they've tried their very best to implicate Singapore. Easy example: CLOB shares, is this the way Malaysia should treat foreign investors?
Why do Singaporeans mock at Malaysia? Is it really just because the 640sq km island is richer than the vast resourceful peninsular and a wide portion of Borneo? Of course not, it's because there's racial discrimination, illogical policies, lack of transparency and clear social inequality and resentment. Looking at how Anwar was dealt with, what do Malaysians think of their leader Mahathir? And the Malaysian judiciary? Firstly, does UMNO think of Malaysians, or Malays? These are fundamental questions that any blockhead could work out, yet Malaysian politicians still met out their policies with indifference. Honestly, Singaporeans do have something to be proud of.
Though Malaysia smirks that Singapore depends on Malaysia for water, Singapore is in fact is the regional base of economic strength and commercial services. Without her, neither Malaysia nor any other country in SE Asian would progress as rapidly, since it would be harder to access and lacks infrastructure by foreigners. The JB water was a fair deal, except again Mahathir wishes to corner Singapore by pushing unnecessarry terms. Does Singapore charge too high for it's treated water?
I'll give some fallacies to some Malaysian arguments. First, during the elections when Mahathir needed Chinese votes, he said that it was possible that one day a non-Malay might become PM. But it's already been stated in the constitution that a non-Malay can never become the political leader. Wasn't he lying through his teeth? The Anwar case. The first charge was he sodomised his driver one particular night. The lawyers found an alibi, and so the charge was 'changed'. Changed? What do you mean changed? If you're not guilty, you're supposed to be acquitted! When the second charge took place, they said it was in a particular building. But the building wasn't even built yet on the night of the crime. Again, the charge was 'changed'. Justice? Next, it's been blamed that George Soros caused Malaysia's recession. Excuse me, in business, stocks, speculation, there's no such thing as blame. Can we 'blame' Malaysia for trying to rob us of the wealth coming from our ports, trade routes and sale of water?!? Everyone looks out for their own interests, I think Malaysia definitely knows this concept best judging from their attitude to Singapore! Malaysia built an aerodome in the middle of nowhere. Tell me, does that really improve the nation's infrastructure? Your roads are still full of holes and puddles! Yet you spend that much on an airport; we know Malaysia's not too efficient, but it's so big it's barely half-utilised!
Finally, Singapore's military defence is technologically superior and its 250,0000 strong trained army is the second largest in Asia, after Thailand. Malaysia may have the population for an army. But first, only Malays seem to be allowed in, and secondly the majority of Malays are paddy farmers and fishermen anyway. Wanna put up a fight? The equipped airforce and naval submarines are too much for Malaysia to match as well, so don't think size boasts military strength.
I've given you conclusively examples of the apparent puppetry going on in Malaysia, and there's even televised statements that Malaysia's doing very well.....come on, who are you trying to kid? Singapore backs its stands and decisions with facts and figures, and performance indicators. Malaysia makes its arguments with codes such as Singapore being 'insensitive' to Malaysia's interests. You tell me, do you truly believe Malaysia's more 'sensitive' than Singapore? Oh, and someone told me that Malaysia's deputy PM is an anti-Chinese extremist. Well, what's new?
But despite being biased against Malaysia, I have to say Mahathir is the best leader at the moment, simply because there's no beter alternative. He's headstrong and is an extremely sharp politician who can pulverise his enemies, perhaps that's the sort of leader Malaysia needs for now. Many people even suggest that he planned Anwar's downfall right from the start. It was a thesis that Mahathir places a deputy hopeful, watches his influence grow, and then displaces him before he can seriously challenge his position. That's one way to stay in power. Politics is an awfully dirty game in Malaysia, another reason for Singaporeans to be grateful to the PAP.
Note that anything defamatory here is not my responsibility as similiar views were stipulated by the foreign media
[This message has been edited by watchdog (edited 22 September 2000).] -
Originally posted by watchdog:
Interesting points =).
Wow, I can't believe I actually missed this thread for so long!
There's a lot of issues here. But perhaps most outstandingly is the social-political landscape. If you ask me who's better and who's worse, personally I'll tell you that Singaporeans and Malaysians are the same. We'ev got the same religious and multiracial components, the same diverse SE Asian culture, and same Asian attitudes and values, like Confucianism.
Firstly, it's very easy to blame one's leaders, for it's they who apply and instigate the social and economic changes. No doubt there's much distrust between Malaysians and Singaporeans. But after having lived both in Malaysia and Singapore, I came to the conclusion that it's the adminstration who's responsible for a country's successes and failures.
Honestly, there's jealousy against Singaporeans. But why didn't it turn out as healthy competition, and instead ended up as detest? The Malaysian adminstration is a major reason. In order to pacify the Malaysian population, they've tried their very best to implicate Singapore. Easy example: CLOB shares, is this the way Malaysia should treat foreign investors?
Why do Singaporeans mock at Malaysia? Is it really just because the 640sq km island is richer than the vast resourceful peninsular and a wide portion of Borneo? Of course not, it's because there's racial discrimination, illogical policies, lack of transparency and clear social inequality and resentment. Looking at how Anwar was dealt with, what do Malaysians think of their leader Mahathir? And the Malaysian judiciary? Firstly, does UMNO think of Malaysians, or Malays? These are fundamental questions that any blockhead could work out, yet Malaysian politicians still met out their policies with indifference. Honestly, Singaporeans do have something to be proud of.
Though Malaysia smirks that Singapore depends on Malaysia for water, Singapore is in fact is the regional base of economic strength and commercial services. Without her, neither Malaysia nor any other country in SE Asian would progress as rapidly, since it would be harder to access and lacks infrastructure by foreigners. The JB water was a fair deal, except again Mahathir wishes to corner Singapore by pushing unnecessarry terms. Does Singapore charge too high for it's treated water?
I'll give some fallacies to some Malaysian arguments. First, during the elections when Mahathir needed Chinese votes, he said that it was possible that one day a non-Malay might become PM. But it's already been stated in the constitution that a non-Malay can never become the political leader. Wasn't he lying through his teeth? The Anwar case. The first charge was he sodomised his driver one particular night. The lawyers found an alibi, and so the charge was 'changed'. Changed? What do you mean changed? If you're not guilty, you're supposed to be acquitted! When the second charge took place, they said it was in a particular building. But the building wasn't even built yet on the night of the crime. Again, the charge was 'changed'. Justice? Next, it's been blamed that George Soros caused Malaysia's recession. Excuse me, in business, stocks, speculation, there's no such thing as blame. Can we 'blame' Malaysia for trying to rob us of the wealth coming from our ports, trade routes and sale of water?!? Everyone looks out for their own interests, I think Malaysia definitely knows this concept best judging from their attitude to Singapore! Malaysia built an aerodome in the middle of nowhere. Tell me, does that really improve the nation's infrastructure? Your roads are still full of holes and puddles! Yet you spend [b]that much on an airport; we know Malaysia's not too efficient, but it's so big it's barely half-utilised!
Finally, Singapore's military defence is technologically superior and its 250,0000 strong trained army is the second largest in Asia, after Thailand. Malaysia may have the population for an army. But first, only Malays seem to be allowed in, and secondly the majority of Malays are paddy farmers and fishermen anyway. Wanna put up a fight? The equipped airforce and naval submarines are too much for Malaysia to match as well, so don't think size boasts military strength.
I've given you conclusively examples of the apparent puppetry going on in Malaysia, and there's even televised statements that Malaysia's doing very well.....come on, who are you trying to kid? Singapore backs its stands and decisions with facts and figures, and performance indicators. Malaysia makes its arguments with codes such as Singapore being 'insensitive' to Malaysia's interests. You tell me, do you truly believe Malaysia's more 'sensitive' than Singapore? Oh, and someone told me that Malaysia's deputy PM is an anti-Chinese extremist. Well, what's new?
But despite being biased against Malaysia, I have to say Mahathir is the best leader at the moment, simply because there's no beter alternative. He's headstrong and is an extremely sharp politician who can pulverise his enemies, perhaps that's the sort of leader Malaysia needs for now. Many people even suggest that he planned Anwar's downfall right from the start. It was a thesis that Mahathir places a deputy hopeful, watches his influence grow, and then displaces him before he can seriously challenge his position. That's one way to stay in power. Politics is an awfully dirty game in Malaysia, another reason for Singaporeans to be grateful to the PAP.
Note that anything defamatory here is not my responsibility as similiar views were stipulated by the foreign media[/B] -
Seems like this has dried up since I came!
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The topic of this thread is about whether singaporeans are anti-malaysia. However many of the posts in this thread have reminded me why i as a singaporean dislike singapore.
I don't like the arrogant haughty attitude that some singaporeans have, and their ill manners and uncouth words. If we speak and act with this kind of bad attitude, can we expect others to respect or even like singaporeans? -
This is a reply to Watchdog.
Very intersting writing. Good to see so many points. I will try to answer/refute as many of them as possible. I lived 5 years in Singapore, 7 years in Australia, 18 years in Malaysia so I have some idea of what I am talking about. I agree with some, disagree with many. But in the end, please continue to be civil.
Jealousy against Singapore by Malaysia. You feel that Malaysia is jealous of Singaporean success in building solid economic status. You feel that Singapore was implicated by Malaysia over CLOB issue. Let me put another spin to it. How about the Ringgit based fd accounts? During the height of the crisis, lots of Malaysians were "attracted" to singapore to park their ringgit in fixed deposit account by Singapore banks offering higher than normal interest rates. The banks then could use the ringgit to short sell it. What then? Jealousy? Friendship? Private business deal? You have to plug the hole. Lucky the Malaysian government did not label the people who sent the ringgit to Singapore as traitors and profiteers.
Agree that instead of healthy competition that it turned out to detest. Reason, higher level people talk about healthy competiton. Lower ranks and worker bees see it as "breaking their rice bowl"
In terms of politics, BOTH countries are not a model of human rights etc. Singapore has not helped its opposition in any way. Lots of Singaporeans have NO CHOICE but to vote for PAP as the opposition is not credible. Not only that, PAP has made it their decision to reward estates that are pro-PAP while neglecting those which are not. I live in Marine Parade so I know what it is like to be blessed!
Agree that Malaysian politicians have lots more to do to improve their act. However, politicians are responsible to the voters who voted them. In Malaysia, not all the voters live in the city. So the city folk are often unable to get the best benefits of policy as some have to help the rural and less educated folk. Price you have to pay if you live in a REAL COUNTRY and not a city.
In Singapore, there is already lots of friction between HEARTLANDERS and the COSMOPOLITIAN sides. Both are right. But from what I see, the HEARTLANDERS are not getting an equal voice in their needs.
As for riches, please note that Singapore is rich ONLY because of its neighbours and NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND. Its purpose is to exist to service the multinational's goods into the region. If the region goes down, so does Singapore. They have food and water. We don't. -
This is a reply to Watchdog.
Very intersting writing. Good to see so many points. I will try to answer/refute as many of them as possible. I lived 5 years in Singapore, 7 years in Australia, 18 years in Malaysia so I have some idea of what I am talking about. I agree with some, disagree with many. But in the end, please continue to be civil. I am writing based on my conscience as I have done some acts against Malaysian interests during the crisis as part of my job.
Jealousy against Singapore by Malaysia. You feel that Malaysia is jealous of Singaporean success in building solid economic status. You feel that Singapore was implicated by Malaysia over CLOB issue. Let me put another spin to it. How about the Ringgit based fd accounts? During the height of the crisis, lots of Malaysians were "attracted" to singapore to park their ringgit in fixed deposit account by Singapore banks offering higher than normal interest rates. The banks then could use the ringgit to short sell it. What then? Jealousy? Friendship? Private business deal? You have to plug the hole. Lucky the Malaysian government did not label the people who sent the ringgit to Singapore as traitors and profiteers.
Agree that instead of healthy competition that it turned out to detest. Reason, higher level people talk about healthy competiton. Lower ranks and worker bees see it as "breaking their rice bowl"
In terms of politics, BOTH countries are not a model of human rights etc. Singapore has not helped its opposition in any way. Lots of Singaporeans have NO CHOICE but to vote for PAP as the opposition is not credible. Not only that, PAP has made it their decision to reward estates that are pro-PAP while neglecting those which are not. I live in Marine Parade so I know what it is like to be blessed!
Agree that Malaysian politicians have lots more to do to improve their act. However, politicians are responsible to the voters who voted them. In Malaysia, not all the voters live in the city. So the city folk are often unable to get the best benefits of policy as some have to help the rural and less educated folk. Price you have to pay if you live in a REAL COUNTRY and not a city.
In Singapore, there is already lots of friction between HEARTLANDERS and the COSMOPOLITIAN sides. Both are right. But from what I see, the HEARTLANDERS are not getting an equal voice in their needs.
As for riches, please note that Singapore is rich ONLY because of its neighbours and NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND. Its purpose is to exist to service the multinational's goods into the region. If the region goes down, so does Singapore. They have food and water. We don't. A lot of Singapore's policies are predetory. We steal business from Malaysia and Indonesia. What? How about the port? Their telecommunications? The airlines?
Port .. no surprise that when Malaysia built a port in Johor, singapore expects growth in its shipping business to not grow so much in the coming year? Why? The Malaysian manufacturers now can use the port in Johor instead of Singapore. So expect to lose the malaysian cargo back to Malaysia.
Airlines? SIA offers cheaper flights for KL-Sin-SF than for Sin-SF. What is this? Stealing. We started it, they followed.
Telco? Do you know we offer cheaper IDD rates than Telecom Malaysia? SO we sell our ICC cards and prepaid cards QUIETLY in Malaysia EVEN when we do not have a licence to do so and it is ILLEGAL to do so.
What about raw materials? If Malaysia and Indonesia stop selling food and water to Singapore, there will be no growth here as well as IMPORTED food will cost more (compare Aussie Port to Malaysian pork) and reduce economic growth by at least 2-3%
Water? If Malaysia bottles the water and sells it to INDIA, it can make more profit, so do you think that we are paying a "fair" price for the water? As for treating the water, they will stop buying treated water by 2003. See. Fed up with us keep on saying that we are fair and they are mistreating us.
As for Malaysian politics? Donno much so no comment. You are right about all those.
As for economy, I have to refute all your arguments. In business, there is no friend. That is true. BUT when national interests are at stake, you do things differently. For the sake of friendship. What happens if the country goes bankrupt and people are rioting on the street when your economy collapese? You sit still and still let your neighbouring country short sell your money? No. You should stop providing food to them. Let them starve. Did Malaysia stop all the trucks from bringing food into Singapore? Did Malaysia stop water? Did Singapore help Malaysia during the crisis or did it adopt a business as usual stance EVEN THOUGH BUSINESS WAS NOT USUAL? Some friend we are.
In terms of military, we may be the best in the region. But how can that help us in a siege? If the population (not government) of Malaysia and Indonesia hates us, we had it. they stop selling food and water. The chinese in Malaysia have as much influence in India, China, HK and Taiwan as us here in Singapore. Anyway, what use to have the best if they do not plan to invade but just make enough trouble in their home country that ships do not dare pass through the region? Flights are canceled? What can we do? Singapore exists if there is peace in the region. If there is trouble, defending Singapore is not enough as the population will still have need for power (fuel imported) food (imported) water (imported)Money (no business no money) so it will collapse.
As for facts and figures? Please do not kid yourself. I have manipulated lots of statistics to suit our needs. Being open? The Singapore business is not as transparent as we like to think. Its just that we have lots of patriots who love to spew forth facts and figures without bothering to find out who is the source.
Singapore should be grateful to the PAP. Without it, Singapore will be a very depressing place to live in. No car (can't afford COE) no garden (flat only) No public political voice (that's why we have a forum) etc.
Just hope that you can think a little about our utopia before you slam Malaysia. In Malaysia, a 25 year old guy can own a HOUSE and a car. By 30, he has fully paid for the car. By 40, the house. He can travel all over his own country.
For us, to stretch our meagre funds, we go to JB for food. We travel all over the world for holidays (why?) We have to get a COE for a car, we have to buy a HDB flat. Do you know how much pressure working in Singapore compared to Malaysia or Australia?
For what? Just so that our GDP growth is 10% (Malaysia is 7%) I think that we should enjoy what we have, be less proud and make friends. The average Malaysian Chinese will welcome us if we are more humble. Start with them. Once we can feel that there is no fear, the malays will then be ok with us. -
wah ah hahahahahhahaha u guys....
dun u know that sayin fuck and shit and all wont get u nowhere? itll just scratch yer point that ur tryin to make. ergh kidz today...
malaysians and sporeans are different. both have malays, both have chinese, but they are different than each other...y? our mindset is different. malaysia is a democratic country. we can voice out our opinions, no matter how limited it may be. we have free speech to a certain extend (no sensitive issues, blablabla). thats y we have parties. spore is a republic country. no freedom of speech, what leader says ppl must accept it. in other words leader is always true/ right.
there was a discussion among fellow malaysian brainies and sporeans not long ago. the discussion turned out to be something like this thing ppl cursing each other... simply because msians just cant accept everything that the leader sez... while sporeans defend them no matter what, give facts that they see.
theres lotsa things in my mind right now but ill just leave it there. cause i wanna sleep and play my games. thats my 2 cents
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C-Fu sez: shut up and enjoy yer life.
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Now say it with me... fuuud is guuuud...
[This message has been edited by C-Fu (edited 06 January 2001).] -
Do you understand what is freedom of speech?Originally posted by C-Fu:malaysians and sporeans are different. both have malays, both have chinese, but they are different than each other...y? our mindset is different. malaysia is a democratic country. we can voice out our opinions, no matter how limited it may be. we have free speech to a certain extend (no sensitive issues, blablabla). thats y we have parties. spore is a republic country. no freedom of speech, what leader says ppl must accept it. in other words leader is always true/ right.
there was a discussion among fellow malaysian brainies and sporeans not long ago. the discussion turned out to be something like this thing ppl cursing each other... simply because msians just cant accept everything that the leader sez... while sporeans defend them no matter what, give facts that they see.
What you are saying is of no concern with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is being allowed to speak what you want publicly except those of slander and insults. I am sure we are allowed to voice out our opinions in Singapore but, whether the leader accept it is another issue. Accepting or not accepting opinions is not call freedom of speech. When you say about Malaysia have different parties, does Singapore not have them? Of course, it is a fact that Singapore is control by one major party, PAP.
Don't mind if you state where is your source? Discussion? Where? When? How do you know? That is a little too vague and again, your "story" has of no concern with freedom of speech.
Thank you and nice day. -
I'm not only anti-malaysia but also anti-indoesia