Opt-out forms for organ 'robbery'
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i got what u trying to say but in the past we had the informed active consent system n the number of demand for organs far exceed the number of donors.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Everyone doesn't get it.. it's not about telling people not to donate.
I fully encourage organ donation, but Singaporeans must learn to CONSCIOUSLY make that choice by informed ACTIVE consent, and not have PRESUMED consent thrust upon them.
The principle of personal choice is something sacred, and something most have not grasped. No State should ever compel someone to do something, even if the rationale is noble, because nothing done out of free will is ever so.
given the difference btw life n death, i think it is the act itself that decide if it is noble or not. -
Oh boy....
from forced savings in CPF, Medisave, to now... forced organ donation by HOTA.
..boy are we going places...
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I don't really care about fighting for my life if it is really sunk and devoid of quality of life - I seen enough people shrivelled up like a vegetable , stiff as an iron bar or stuck to the ventilator for life just because their family threatened the hospital to keep them.Originally posted by Kenashi:well that's yr belief, can't fault u.
but think about it this way, if none of yr family member can donate their organ to u when u need it.
there is an organ from a recent deceased donor, do u want it?
i believe it is a give n take situation.
if u don't want to give, u shouldn't take too.
Once an organ goes into you - you have to take anti rejection drugs - those are really the pits and a risk of the organ failing or be rejected means more suffering. I won't even ask my family to donate their organs to me because the risk is too high for them .
To have a donor's heart , cornea and lungs mean a person died so that I could have their organs? No bloody thanks.
Don't blame people for not donating - it is not their fault someone dies from a lack of organs. Go blame it on how our body works. -
That's too bloody bad because they failed to inform people about the choices they can make. Why should they reverse it so that they get unsuspecting 'donors'?Originally posted by Kenashi:i got what u trying to say but in the past we had the informed active consent system n the number of demand for organs far exceed the number of donors.
given the difference btw life n death, i think it is the act itself that decide if it is noble or not.
Why should anyone be automatically qualified for donating their organs even when they have no clear idea about what it is all about?
And let me tell you what I know about transplant lists- they are still freaking long. The fact remains that people don't die quick enough for a donor or die a matching donor. -
I was referring to the guy who is attempting an emotional appeal at making or rather implied non-donors should feel bad. The issue should not be blaming people for lack of donating. The issue is about automatically removing their conscious and informed right of consent by the optional opt out approach.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Well in the end it's still your choice, however I wonder where exactly do you draw the line at "nature taking their chance away".
I remembered when I opt out after asking a very specific question - the doctor made a lousy attempt at 'making me feel bad'. That answer which made me opt out was that of my death , I cannot have a choice of who my organs go to even though my family member could be well on the transplant list.
Well call me selfish.....at least when I am alive , I can dictate the right to my liver or kidney on who they can go to. -
Well let's talk logic since emotional approaches dont appeal to you.Originally posted by fymk:I was referring to the guy who is attempting an emotional appeal at making or rather implied non-donors should feel bad. The issue should not be blaming people for lack of donating. The issue is about automatically removing their conscious and informed right of consent by the optional opt out approach.
1) Yes, donation of organs upon death is compulsory unless you opt out. Why is that so? As stated by yourself, there are more people needing an organ donation than those dead who's organs are still fit enough to be transplanted. In such a case, aint the Govt making a practical solution to save the living?
2) As for your anti-rejection drugs issue.. go and ask -anyone- on a transplant waiting list, i bet everyone of those wont complain about having to do so. Obviously they rather take those drugs than have the alternatives.
3) There is an opt-out option available and anyone who bothers and wants to can opt out. It is NOT like the government owns your organs like livestock(ie against your will even if you refuse)
4) At the age of 21 (is that or 18?) You are inform of the organ donation scheme and the opt out option is stated right there. Hence you can make a choice.
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I remembered when I opt out after asking a very specific question - the doctor made a lousy attempt at 'making me feel bad'. That answer which made me opt out was that of my death , I cannot have a choice of who my organs go to even though my family member could be well on the transplant list.
Well call me selfish.....at least when I am alive , I can dictate the right to my liver or kidney on who they can go to. [/b][/quote]
I understand your stance of opting out to give your own family priority in case of emergency.
So the question now is, if you family's safe, which i gladly hope they are, and no one you know needs organs, what would you do with your organs when you die since you now have opt out? -
medisave - u got no choiceOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Oh boy....
from forced savings in CPF, Medisave, to now... forced organ donation by HOTA.
..boy are we going places...
cpf - if u r self-employed, u can don't contribute
organ donation - u can opt out.
or u can emigrate
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never mind, u haven't reach the stage where u need one yetOriginally posted by fymk:I don't really care about fighting for my life if it is really sunk and devoid of quality of life - I seen enough people shrivelled up like a vegetable , stiff as an iron bar or stuck to the ventilator for life just because their family threatened the hospital to keep them.
Once an organ goes into you - you have to take anti rejection drugs - those are really the pits and a risk of the organ failing or be rejected means more suffering. I won't even ask my family to donate their organs to me because the risk is too high for them .
To have a donor's heart , cornea and lungs mean a person died so that I could have their organs? No bloody thanks.
Don't blame people for not donating - it is not their fault someone dies from a lack of organs. Go blame it on how our body works.
talk is easy when u r not on the receiving end
think of it this way, some ppl are born with problems with their organs, nobody choose to be born with a faulty heart or other organs.
wonder what will u said if u r born with a hole in yr heart that is widening with every breath u take?
"no bloody thanks if i have to get a heart transplant from a dead person??" -
well, we got news from the papers n tv.Originally posted by fymk:That's too bloody bad because they failed to inform people about the choices they can make. Why should they reverse it so that they get unsuspecting 'donors'?
Why should anyone be automatically qualified for donating their organs even when they have no clear idea about what it is all about?
And let me tell you what I know about transplant lists- they are still freaking long. The fact remains that people don't die quick enough for a donor or die a matching donor.
someone set the rules, u can either opt out or run for a place in the parliment to have yr say
let me also tell u this, the list may be long, but more donors meant a higher chance of a match, furthermore one donor can give organs to more than one recipient. -
do u really care so much of yr right that u r willing to let someone die while yr organs rot away after yr death? what is left after death??? the rights, the selfishness or the guilt?Originally posted by fymk:I was referring to the guy who is attempting an emotional appeal at making or rather implied non-donors should feel bad. The issue should not be blaming people for lack of donating. The issue is about automatically removing their conscious and informed right of consent by the optional opt out approach.
I remembered when I opt out after asking a very specific question - the doctor made a lousy attempt at 'making me feel bad'. That answer which made me opt out was that of my death , I cannot have a choice of who my organs go to even though my family member could be well on the transplant list.
Well call me selfish.....at least when I am alive , I can dictate the right to my liver or kidney on who they can go to.
they based the recipient list on priority.
who need the organ more, if someone's life is hanging by a thread n yr relative can survive without yr organ for a few yrs, i think it is fair that the organ is given to that person. -
I think the gov should outsource organs from foreigners since they are so fond of foreigners..
So far:
>> Foreigners for Talents
>> Foreigners for Labour
>> Foreigners for Babies
>> Foreigners for Sports
... WHY NOT foreigner for organs?? -
Don't use emotional arguments on me and don't even try to do a guilt trip on me. The decision is mine , like the rest of the people out there.Originally posted by Kenashi:do u really care so much of yr right that u r willing to let someone die while yr organs rot away after yr death? what is left after death??? the rights, the selfishness or the guilt?
they based the recipient list on priority.
who need the organ more, if someone's life is hanging by a thread n yr relative can survive without yr organ for a few yrs, i think it is fair that the organ is given to that person.
It is our choice , our bodies. I am not owned by the government . Yes I do care about my rights and my beliefs as long as it does not infringe on other people's right. Last I checked - non donation does not mean infringement. However having an opt out option rather than an opt in is somewhat dubious in terms of informed consent and it is somewhat a borderline infringement . I do not have that religious belief of donating organs. Others want to do it - good of them .
If people don't want to donate their organs , they don't deserve a guilt trip. Like I said , it is not my fault or anyone's that a person die from not receiving any organs. It is the nature of disease that killed them . Not I.
My priority is my family . Between a family member and a stranger - I choose to save my family member especially if it is my parents or sibling. Blood is thicker than water. I do not and will not give priority to a stranger hanging by the thread when my family member is going to hang by the same thread if they do not receive my organs. I make no apology for that .
They will never get any part of my organs if they cannot promise me that in an event should a relative require it ,my relative should take precedence due to the likelihood of a genetic match.
The body is mine made up of genetic structures of my ancestors , the DNA match is likely to be within my family. Do you even know anything about organ tranplants? It is all about the luck of the draw for matching organs between strangers. Alot of people still die on waiting lists because they cannot even find a matching donor from those who die suddenly . If the donor is within the family and has a match, the person have a lower rate of organ rejection than taking a donor organ of a stranger?
Anyways they are experimenting on transgenic pigs for organ transplant. There you go - organ donation for the future. -
I fully agree, that is a very PRACTICAL opinion which I too share.Originally posted by fymk:Don't use emotional arguments on me and don't even try to do a guilt trip on me. The decision is mine , like the rest of the people out there.
It is our choice , our bodies. I am not owned by the government . Yes I do care about my rights and my beliefs as long as it does not infringe on other people's right. Last I checked - non donation does not mean infringement. However having an opt out option rather than an opt in is somewhat dubious in terms of informed consent and it is somewhat a borderline infringement . I do not have that religious belief of donating organs. Others want to do it - good of them .
If people don't want to donate their organs , they don't deserve a guilt trip. Like I said , it is not my fault or anyone's that a person die from not receiving any organs. It is the nature of disease that killed them . Not I.
My priority is my family . Between a family member and a stranger - I choose to save my family member especially if it is my parents or sibling. Blood is thicker than water. I do not and will not give priority to a stranger hanging by the thread when my family member is going to hang by the same thread if they do not receive my organs. I make no apology for that .
They will never get any part of my organs if they cannot promise me that in an event should a relative require it ,my relative should take precedence due to the likelihood of a genetic match.
The body is mine made up of genetic structures of my ancestors , the DNA match is likely to be within my family. Do you even know anything about organ tranplants? It is all about the luck of the draw for matching organs between strangers. Alot of people still die on waiting lists because they cannot even find a matching donor from those who die suddenly . If the donor is within the family and has a match, the person have a lower rate of organ rejection than taking a donor organ of a stranger?
Anyways they are experimenting on transgenic pigs for organ transplant. There you go - organ donation for the future. -
nobody said that yr body ain't yrs.Originally posted by fymk:Don't use emotional arguments on me and don't even try to do a guilt trip on me. The decision is mine , like the rest of the people out there.
It is our choice , our bodies. I am not owned by the government . Yes I do care about my rights and my beliefs as long as it does not infringe on other people's right. Last I checked - non donation does not mean infringement. However having an opt out option rather than an opt in is somewhat dubious in terms of informed consent and it is somewhat a borderline infringement . I do not have that religious belief of donating organs. Others want to do it - good of them .
If people don't want to donate their organs , they don't deserve a guilt trip. Like I said , it is not my fault or anyone's that a person die from not receiving any organs. It is the nature of disease that killed them . Not I.
My priority is my family . Between a family member and a stranger - I choose to save my family member especially if it is my parents or sibling. Blood is thicker than water. I do not and will not give priority to a stranger hanging by the thread when my family member is going to hang by the same thread if they do not receive my organs. I make no apology for that .
They will never get any part of my organs if they cannot promise me that in an event should a relative require it ,my relative should take precedence due to the likelihood of a genetic match.
The body is mine made up of genetic structures of my ancestors , the DNA match is likely to be within my family. Do you even know anything about organ tranplants? It is all about the luck of the draw for matching organs between strangers. Alot of people still die on waiting lists because they cannot even find a matching donor from those who die suddenly . If the donor is within the family and has a match, the person have a lower rate of organ rejection than taking a donor organ of a stranger?
Anyways they are experimenting on transgenic pigs for organ transplant. There you go - organ donation for the future.
it is yr decision that u have to live with.
i know about DNA, but even blood relative can have non-matching organ. furthermore, it is about matching blood type n acceptance by the body more than DNA.
the doctor will try to find those organs that has a chance of matching rather than to transplant one that is going to fail.
u talk as if u know everything, but don't assume everyone else is as ignorant as you.
it just a wonder whether those ppl can hang on till the future is here. -
So? She makes a good point.Originally posted by Kenashi:nobody said that yr body ain't yrs.
it is yr decision that u have to live with.
i know about DNA, but even blood relative can have non-matching organ.
the doctor will try to find those organs that has a chance of matching rather than to transplant one that is going to fail.
u talk as if u know everything, but don't assume everyone else is as ignorant as you.
it just a wonder whether those ppl can hang on till the future is here.
Chances of organ rejection is very high in non-relations transplant. Sometimes, in the end, you roll your dice and live your life according to how it drops. -
but at least there is a fighting chance rite n at the very least it is higher than striking toto n u find hundred of thousand if not million of ppl pinning their hopes on toto twice a wk.Originally posted by LazerLordz:So? She makes a good point.
Chances of organ rejection is very high in non-relations transplant. Sometimes, in the end, you roll your dice and live your life according to how it drops. -
When you are on the list, anything is a bonus. Getting an organ is a bonus.Originally posted by Kenashi:but at least there is a fighting chance rite n at the very least it is higher than striking toto n u find hundred of thousand if not million of ppl pinning their hopes on toto twice a wk.
I wouldn't expect a miracle should I find myself on that list one day. That's the reality of life for you. -
yap, given that the donor pool is widening, this give ppl hopes.Originally posted by LazerLordz:When you are on the list, anything is a bonus. Getting an organ is a bonus.
I wouldn't expect a miracle should I find myself on that list one day. That's the reality of life for you.
i find that hope may be what keeping ppl alive. -
Actually considering people here encouraging to opt-out that should read,Originally posted by Kenashi:yap, given that the donor pool is widening, this give ppl hopes.
i find that hope may be what keeping ppl alive.
given that the donor pool is is DWINDLING. hopes are fading.
By the way, fymk isnt wrong in putting family first, it makes complete sense..heck even most people will think that way.
However, fymk has yet to reply what happens if his family doesnt need his organs. Are you going to donate your organs to public then? -
Maybe you should read what I wrote. I am a she btw.Originally posted by CM06:Actually considering people here encouraging to opt-out that should read,
given that the donor pool is is DWINDLING. hopes are fading.
By the way, fymk isnt wrong in putting family first, it makes complete sense..heck even most people will think that way.
However, fymk has yet to reply what happens if his family doesnt need his organs. Are you going to donate your organs to public then?
We can go over hypotheticals all you want but until a preferential clause is added in for blood relations who might be a good match and might require an organ transplant in an event of mishap, I am not backing down from my stance.
I opted out because the doctor failed to convince me of staying in without that clause. It's my body and my body is not a piece of equipment to be taken apart at the whim of the state policy. I believe in informed rights and consent. I made an informed decision not to donate. That decision has to be respected.
Donor pool is dwindling because of the failure to convince people to be donors. No one should be made to feel ashamed for opting out if they do not feel comfortable with being opt in. -
You're absolutely right...Originally posted by fymk:Maybe you should read what I wrote . We can go over hypotheticals all you want but until a preferential clause is added in for my blood relations who might be a good match and might require an organ transplant in an event of mishap, I am not backing down from my stance.
I opted out because the doctor failed to convince me to stay opt in. It's my body, my body is not a piece of equipment to be taken apart at the whim of the state policy.
Donor pool is dwindling because of the failure to convince people to be donors. No one should be made to feel ashamed for opting out if they do not feel comfortable with being opt in.
What made me very angry was that I didn't even know that I was opted in! -
Same as me 2 only untill last week!!!!Originally posted by ShutterBug:You're absolutely right...
What made me very angry was that I didn't even know that I was opted in! -
Farking hell... some more can remark why people don't Praise or Agree with gov!Originally posted by foomwee88:Same as me 2 only untill last week!!!!
Our gov is not communicative at all. -
if u don't agree with the government policy that yr point of viewOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Farking hell... some more can remark why people don't Praise or Agree with gov!
Our gov is not communicative at all.
the fact that the news have been communicated to the public a while back through the papers n t.v.
if u didn't notice it, it can't be taken as no communication. -
and there we come to the current state of credibility of the state media.Originally posted by Kenashi:if u don't agree with the government policy that yr point of view
the fact that the news have been communicated to the public a while back through the papers n t.v.
if u didn't notice it, it can't be taken as no communication.