Death of the "OLD" Singaporean
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Call me a paranoid Xenophobe, but the projected 6.5Million population scares me. With current a current population of about 4million, of which Singapoeans make up only 3Million it is deffinately forseeable that the "Old" Singaporean population will be diluted in the new mix.
With firtility rates not exceeding 2.1, Our "Old" singaporean population will not, at least in the next 10-20 yrs be able to grow rapidly enough to form the majority of this 6.5Million. Will our new singaporeans stand by our nation as we have all these years? What incentive is there to fight for a nation of forigners?
Whats worse, is that i forsee Singaporean society becoming more fragmented. Even today its common to see parallel societies forming. Sure we need forigners to meet labour demands, but the rate of influx of these forigners is staggeringly quick. They barely have enough time to integrate with society. SIngaporean dont mix with them but more importantly they dont make the effort to integrate with society mainly because they have no need to. There are so many of them that they easily form support communities of their own nationalites within the country. Juct like in the Universities here. Let me give u an example. There are 2 indian cultural Societies. One for the India Indians and one for the Singapoeran Indians.
These people do not identify themselves as singaporeans but rather as citizens of their homelands. This is so even after they gain citizenship here. I think it is totally unwise to put the future of a country we have worked so hard for in the hands of fair weather friends. The Old singaporeans with means to be mobile will end up sidelined and be forced to leave. Singapore could become a bording hose soon enough. -
Your observation is good...
But I'm afraid, our gov will need to grow a few more million brain cells for them to eventually realize what you observed, and start another about-turn in poplicies...
They need crap to hit the fan, before they deem it is necessary to put a brake on foreign influx. -
Ha ha sadly our heads of state , though highly qualified on paper, seem to have no clue of the ground effects of their policies. They see the plight of the poor but have not lived in their shoes......
Degrees != Brains != Good leadership (Clearly evident )
we are mese social experiments to the folk upstairs who have iron seats in singapore. -
Yes and no.Originally posted by headset:Degrees != Brains != Good leadership (Clearly evident )
I have seen people with brains and leadership. I have also seen people without qualifications and have leadership. Of course there are also some without brain and no leadership.
So that particular statement is sterotyping. -
This is because Rajaratnam's wish for a stronger emphasis on Singaporean identity did not materialise as planned.
It's time we moved away from emphasis on ethnic groups and focus on policies that help to foster and create an overall identity that immigrants should adapt to. It would be a disaster for immigrants and expatriates to form ghettos and refuse to socialise. One day, we will face the problem that England is facing today with their British Asian groups, same as Australia.
Promote the Singaporean identity above racial and ethnic identity, immigrants and PR must take a test about our history and our culture should they wish to settle down. Proficiency in English is a must. If they refuse to integrate, sorry, quality is better than quantity. -
Very hard to ask some one to adopt the new country identity as they are still deeply rooted in their motherland.
Just ask the FT talent that are playing for singapore in sports, would they stay in Singapore for the rest of their life ?
As for the poodle, they dun really care about the singapore identity.
As long as some one serve the reservist, some one pay the tax and their salary, they dun really give damn or shit about the identity stuff.
So much for employing deserters to be a poodle.
They are all short-sighted.
Who care a hoot about singapore remaining as one unit in 20 years time ???
In singapore, you are only a asset if you are paying tax, or else u can stand aside. -
Who are the "OLD" Singaporean?Originally posted by headset:Call me a paranoid Xenophobe, but the projected 6.5Million population scares me. With current a current population of about 4million, of which Singapoeans make up only 3Million it is deffinately forseeable that the "Old" Singaporean population will be diluted in the new mix.
With firtility rates not exceeding 2.1, Our "Old" singaporean population will not, at least in the next 10-20 yrs be able to grow rapidly enough to form the majority of this 6.5Million. Will our new singaporeans stand by our nation as we have all these years? What incentive is there to fight for a nation of forigners?
Whats worse, is that i forsee Singaporean society becoming more fragmented. Even today its common to see parallel societies forming. Sure we need forigners to meet labour demands, but the rate of influx of these forigners is staggeringly quick. They barely have enough time to integrate with society. SIngaporean dont mix with them but more importantly they dont make the effort to integrate with society mainly because they have no need to. There are so many of them that they easily form support communities of their own nationalites within the country. Juct like in the Universities here. Let me give u an example. There are 2 indian cultural Societies. One for the India Indians and one for the Singapoeran Indians.
These people do not identify themselves as singaporeans but rather as citizens of their homelands. This is so even after they gain citizenship here. I think it is totally unwise to put the future of a country we have worked so hard for in the hands of fair weather friends. The Old singaporeans with means to be mobile will end up sidelined and be forced to leave. Singapore could become a bording hose soon enough.
As it is, the old (in age) Singaporeans are dying a sad death. How many young Singaporeans, born in Singapore, are looking after their parents and grand parents? How many young Singaporeans are talking about migrating for their own freedom, their own future without even have a thought for their parents, who might not be able to adapt to the new environment as the young do?
Who are the ones who do not want to employ the old Singaporean? are they not the young Singaporean, as bosses or working in HR or recruitment who think it is cheaper to employ young people, who can run faster, work later, at lower costs? the old Singaporeans therefore should work in canteen, foodcourt.....
It is ironical that many who are against the government politically ended up singing the same tune with the PAP when it comes to dollars and cents.
Are the young Singaporean ready to fight for Singapore TODAY? As soon as war starts foreigners would flee, but we, as Singaporean have our families, our belongings here, and the land we call home. Fighting for our country is our duty and our pride, a nation of foreigners is just an excuse for not fighting.
If we are not proud of our country, if we can't differentiate the difference between our loyal to country and our support for different political parties, we lose the moral ground to influence the new comers. If we do not mix with them I don't see why they should make any effort to integrate in a society, especially when the people are thinking of migrating every minute of the day. The india indians society was probably formed because they could not gain acceptance into the Singaporean Indian Society.
My only hope is that by the time we have 6.5 million people, there would be a lot more young singaporean, locally born or immigrated, to pay tax to support the OLD Singaporean, by then I would be one of them, but have to count on the government, again....sign....
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Who are causing these problems that Singaporean are going to face in the future?
You and me? No. It's the government. Who is making policies to allow more foreigners to come in? It's the government. Who's are the people who make up government? It's the PAP. Who's the steering commitees in PAP? The Lees. Is the Lees righteous people or profit lovers? Ask yourselves
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Who voted in the PAP?Originally posted by (human):Who are causing these problems that Singaporean are going to face in the future?
You and me? No. It's the government. Who is making policies to allow more foreigners to come in? It's the government. Who's are the people who make up government? It's the PAP. Who's the steering commitees in PAP? The Lees. Is the Lees righteous people or profit lovers? Ask yourselves 
are the young Singaporean guilty of not looking after the OLD Singaporean? -
Again, sterotyping.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Who voted in the PAP? are the young Singaporean guilty of not looking after the OLD Singaporean?
When you type in this statement, I assume that you KNEW all the young Singaporeans in person. If not, please throw in some facts to support your......
I would love to use the word "statement", but I think the word "accusation" is more suitable. Don't let some examples blind your whole vision and COME OUT OF YOUR IVORY TOWER AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES.
Who are the ones that lead by example and think profits first? Who were the ones that ditched all moral values into dustbin in our education? No prize for guessing the correct answer.
I think you don't understand TS's OLD Singaporean meant. You were thinking of age, not the roots of both OLD and YOUNG Singaporeans.
The gahmen did a poor job at integrating the all ethnics group together. They keep avoiding sensitive questions and let the snowball roll. -
ya...go back to old Singapore that was covered in jungles and inhabited by the orang Asli..
As the Malaysians might say, you should learn from us and give priority to the bumiputras. You Chinese, Indians and Eurasians either accept our terms or go back to where your forefathers came from
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OM, nothing but cock came out of your keyboard today.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ya...go back to old Singapore that was covered in jungles and inhabited by the orang Asli..
As the Malaysians might say, you should learn from us and give priority to the bumiputras. You Chinese, Indians and Eurasians either accept our terms or go back to where your forefathers came from
I dun think you are sane enough to carry out any arguement for the day. -
Originally posted by Hogzilla:
apoligise I never did a survey before I posted the accusation.
Again, sterotyping.
When you type in this statement, I assume that you [b]KNEW all the young Singaporeans in person. If not, please throw in some facts to support your......
I would love to use the word "statement", but I think the word "accusation" is more suitable. Don't let some examples blind your whole vision and COME OUT OF YOUR IVORY TOWER AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES.
Who are the ones that lead by example and think profits first? Who were the ones that ditched all moral values into dustbin in our education? No prize for guessing the correct answer.
I think you don't understand TS's OLD Singaporean meant. You were thinking of age, not the roots of both OLD and YOUNG Singaporeans.
The gahmen did a poor job at integrating the all ethnics group together. They keep avoiding sensitive questions and let the snowball roll. [/b] But you do agree with me that many young people are not looking after the OLD, right? except that you blame it on the government who "think profits first", "ditched all moral values into dustbin in our education". You may even want to blame your parents for not teaching you the correct moral values, for unless you were taught, you cannot know. 
what I read here is that in every damn problem we face in and outside Singapore, concerning singapore, the standard response here is to blame the government, and the first action plan is to migrate. Go do a survey and tell me I am wrong. If the YOUNG (of age) singaporeans do have ROOTS here, with migrating as a non option, then the OLD (with roots here) singaporeans can see the roots continue to grow in singapore. If the young has no roots, the OLD dies of natural death, don't blame the foreigner.
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I do not agree with the word "many". I prefer the word "some". I doubt that they make up to even a quarter of Singapore youth population. If it does, Singapore will have a more severe social problem than what she is experiencing now.Originally posted by sgdiehard:apoligise I never did a survey before I posted the accusation. But you do agree with me that many young people are not looking after the OLD, right?
There are two factors affecting a particular person's education (Education in terms of both academic and moral) : The giver of the education, the reciever.Originally posted by sgdiehard:except that you blame it on the government who "think profits first", "ditched all moral values into dustbin in our education". You may even want to blame your parents for not teaching you the correct moral values, for unless you were taught, you cannot know.
When the giver hands out the wrong material to the reciever, things will not go the supposely "correct" route; How the reciever interpretes information the giver hand out will alter the nature of the information.
Also no prize for guessing who are/is the giver and who is/are the reciever.
No lah. That's sterotyping again.Originally posted by sgdiehard:what I read here is that in every damn problem we face in and outside Singapore, concerning singapore, the standard response here is to blame the government, and the first action plan is to migrate. Go do a survey and tell me I am wrong. If the YOUNG (of age) singaporeans do have ROOTS here, with migrating as a non option, then the OLD (with roots here) singaporeans can see the roots continue to grow in singapore. If the young has no roots, the OLD dies of natural death, don't blame the foreigner.
At least some of us DO view the objective situation first then start the pointing finger game. -
Hope you are home having reunion dinner with your parents and grand parents.Originally posted by Hogzilla:No lah. That's sterotyping again.
At least some of us DO view the objective situation first then start the pointing finger game.
Happy New Year.! -
Thank you. My grandmother passed away even before I was born. My grandfather passed away when I was a kid.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Hope you are home having reunion dinner with your parents and grand parents.
Happy New Year.!
I'm full from the steamboat that my parents prepare, I do help out. I hope the same happens to you. -
haha...start the year with vulgarity? Well, the only one I have seen today is the one you have been sucking....Originally posted by Hogzilla:OM, nothing but cock came out of your keyboard today.
I dun think you are sane enough to carry out any arguement for the day.
Get back to the topic -
You ARE a paranoid xenophobe..It does not matter who is a new or old Singaporean, as long as he contributes to the prosperity of the nation and not its problems. At least with new citizens we have a choice as to who we let in to join us....not much we can do with the juvenile deliquents who are chidlren of so-called old Singaporeans, even though we can do without them.Originally posted by headset:Call me a paranoid Xenophobe, but the projected 6.5Million population scares me. With current a current population of about 4million, of which Singapoeans make up only 3Million it is deffinately forseeable that the "Old" Singaporean population will be diluted in the new mix. -
by (!=) i mean that one dosent equate to the other. Brains do not equate leadership.... im trying to emphasose ur point...... that there is no hard @ fast rule to determining who should lead us. To me, all that matters is passion to serve singaporeans.Originally posted by Hogzilla:Yes and no.
I have seen people with brains and leadership. I have also seen people without qualifications and have leadership. Of course there are also some without brain and no leadership.
So that particular statement is sterotyping. -
true. leadership not only requires brains, but tons of experience too.Originally posted by headset:by (!=) i mean that one dosent equate to the other. Brains do not equate leadership.... im trying to emphasose ur point...... that there is no hard @ fast rule to determining who should lead us. To me, all that matters is passion to serve singaporeans.
but i don't think the government recognises that.
all they know is that high education status = gd leadership, yes?
but how can the government change the mindset of the growing population to increase the falling birth rate? that's the question.
pure citizens should get a place at the parliament, as they would feel the loyalty for the country, not by some dick or harry who receive a PRC permit.
2.1 is just too low of the current fertility rate. but times had changed. people are smarter in planning their marriages and most families now are making work the #1 in their minds.
at least the fertility rate should be around 2.5-3 per family. i wonder how we mere singaporeans can change that?
the government should do something too...
and somehow, i feel as like i'm depending too much on the government. -
New immigrants are more likely to be loyal to the "ruling party" for obvious reasons; they feel they own everything they have to "their government". Take note, Singapore is already the 2nd most densely populated "nation" in the world, so things will just get worse. The rich can afford to buy holiday chalets overseas, but the poor may in future have to be packed in cramped million-dollar HDB flats that belong to HDB, not them. Then, there's the casino with all the social ills it brings, and also racial issues, where Singaporean citizens are required to pay more in order to enter the casino. Natives are now unofficially 2nd Class citizens in their own "country". New immigrants and "Foreign Talents" are the 1st Class citizens. We are truely screwing ourselves. There's no national identity, nor self esteem. Only more taxes for the "government's" coffers.
And sooner or later, we, the natives may find ourselves becoming the minority of a place we can't call our own. It's time to remove the "cancerous tumor" before it's too late.
This so-called "fertility rate" has got a lot to do with numerous disillusioned citizens migrating per year to other truely democratic countries to start afresh, taking their families with them, or some even abandoning their ageing parents here to perish on their own. It sucks just as bad that Singapore doesn't allow dual citizenship. So it's almost always a case of "I've made a decision and I'm not coming back liao". Then there's the "National Service" where male Singaporeans who risk their lives throwing grenades and handling weapons in are being paid less than what a Bangla road sweeper gets for a duration of 2 whole years.Originally posted by gigabyte14:true. leadership not only requires brains, but tons of experience too.
but i don't think the government recognises that.
all they know is that high education status = gd leadership, yes?
but how can the government change the mindset of the growing population to increase the falling birth rate? that's the question.
pure citizens should get a place at the parliament, as they would feel the loyalty for the country, not by some dick or harry who receive a PRC permit.
2.1 is just too low of the current fertility rate. but times had changed. people are smarter in planning their marriages and most families now are making work the #1 in their minds.
at least the fertility rate should be around 2.5-3 per family. i wonder how we mere singaporeans can change that?
the government should do something too...
and somehow, i feel as like i'm depending too much on the government.
Very soon, only 2 main groups of people would be left here in this hellhole.
1. The rich and powerful with assets and good lifestyles here.
2. The very poor peasants who can't afford to immigrate. -
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Singapore just doesn't offer the depth people often crave in life. Our Nation's success formula is based on money & materialism. 4D is our National pasttime. Money is our new God.. the accursed ambrosia, the secret to immortality. It can solve everything. No talent? Throw money. Need people to run the country? Throw money, but why stop there - pay them highest in the world! Help the needy? Yes, money can solve it.
Our country, its policies and treatment of its citizens lack many deeper humane / cultural values and elements that make men/women loyal to - and proud of - their own country. You can't buy this with money. -
Ha ha this is a good one.Originally posted by headset:Ha ha sadly our heads of state , though highly qualified on paper, seem to have no clue of the ground effects of their policies. They see the plight of the poor but have not lived in their shoes......
Degrees != Brains != Good leadership (Clearly evident )
we are mere social experiments to the folk upstairs who have iron seats in singapore.
I have always had thought that we are pawns in the government's social engineering schemes to consolidate power in the present group. -
What I observed is that Singaporeans ourselves dont help fellow Singaporeans.
Tell me where u rather work ? A company with Local Boss or those International Company? I have heard plenty of stories where local boss dont even pay their local employees well. Especially those employed as "contract" staff. When it times to receive ur pay, some of this boss will pay u lower then whats promised, giving excuse like company doesnt make money etc.
I just find lots of our ppl are getting selfish and pathetic!