Why they so like that?
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I cant understand why even though we keep helping indonesia in their time of need, they seem to repay us with criticism, haze and bully tactics (crazy acts like banning sand exports).... makes no sense to me.... like that where is the gratitude..... why help them?
Like that dont help better rite...
I mean they cant help themselves in the first pace with vast natural resources. Still wanna ask for help thn never say thanks and scold us.....
Crazy man
What do u all think? -
crazy man
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I believe it is more a circumstantial obligation; we are SMALL..
It is only prudent for a small country like us, to be sociable, helpful, to surrounding neighbors like Indonesia and Malaysia - we are friggin surrounded man!
What happened to Kuwait, can surely happen to us..
if our gov stick their noses in the air and ignore neighbors.
We may be advanced, technically inclined, economically strong... but hell we sure lack population size and millitary manpower!!
One bad confrontation can very potentially throw our economic machinery helter-skelter!
So.. when slapped on one cheek, we may necessarily offer up the other cheek... -
in future we better not help at all
tell them we can't help because we small
also tell them we scare gana bully if help them
so help don't help also gana bully then help sg ppl better.
err...lack military power?
not sure leh... with indon's current army strength wrt their land size.....maybe nearby countries can walk into any indon island anytime without much problem. or wipe out their air force and navy ( ha.. abit exaggerated?)
if indon has no navy or air force, can they defense over ten thousand islands?
just a thought
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That's because they don't need to put up a charitable front for political standing in this part of the world.
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Ha ha yah man... i say we reestablish our contacts with israil and develop a defence force that mirrors their defence capabilities. I think only they jknow our pain. Surrounded by stupid shit heads...
Indeonesia's military streangth in proportion cannot match ours. In our immediate region i believe we have the most powerful defence force. Both in numbers and machinery. -
but they still yaya step up their patrol in batam sea
wonder what their navy thinking... who are they trying to scare?
with their 4 hardly fighting fit russian fighters and a few hardly serviceable old f16... wonder who is at who's mercy....but yaya is in their blood lah... cannot fight also must wayang first
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When you help somebody you help genuinely. You don't expect gratitude or worse, like Singapore, make a big show of it. Come on, it's their tragedies, don't try to see benefits and extract self interests from them. Step in their shoes, and you will understand more.Originally posted by headset:I cant understand why even though we keep helping indonesia in their time of need, they seem to repay us with criticism, haze and bully tactics (crazy acts like banning sand exports).... makes no sense to me.... like that where is the gratitude..... why help them?
Like that dont help better rite...
I mean they cant help themselves in the first pace with vast natural resources. Still wanna ask for help thn never say thanks and scold us.....
Crazy man
What do u all think? -
agree. humanities help should be unconditional. to link it to political or economic matter is missing the point altogether.Originally posted by chiabaliao:When you help somebody you help genuinely. You don't expect gratitude or worse, like Singapore, make a big show of it. Come on, it's their tragedies, don't try to see benefits and extract self interests from them. Step in their shoes, and you will understand more.
i also think that sometimes singapore `politicise' all this. Another `bak chor mee' syndrome.
sometimes its best that government channel all help to NGOs whenever it can. unfortunately, the `whats in it for me' mentality is a tad too obvious coming from sinkapore. -
True that aid shoud be unconditional........
But i think you are missing the point............... It is not what they do for us in return. I doubt the government expects much form indonesia in return anyhow.....
The issue is, why do they seek to persecute us inspite of our kind manner towards them? I believe it is un called for and warrants a good spanking by singapore. -
so, just because we saved them during a natural disaster, that we should prevent them pursuing criminals in our country?
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on the contrary, i think u misunderstood me. i am saying exactly tt sg shld not expect anything in return from indo. if u want to help, go ahead but pls do not expect favor in return.Originally posted by headset:True that aid shoud be unconditional........
But i think you are missing the point............... It is not what they do for us in return. I doubt the government expects much form indonesia in return anyhow.....
The issue is, why do they seek to persecute us inspite of our kind manner towards them? I believe it is un called for and warrants a good spanking by singapore.
repatriation and humanitarian help are 2 separate thing. it shldn't be link together. sgp's habit of `negotiating as a package', e.g. with malaysia over the bridge issue as well, is not done in all good faith. (i do agree tt the msia's water/brigde negotiation is slightly trickier, but humanitarian effort is a straight forward thing. u help becos there is a dire need and u have the resources. to tie it to `something' is not right. -
Thread starter, why you so like that ??
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the problem is the help is indeed tied to something. next time if there is a chance you see if we don't help what they will say. the help is taken as a gesture of goodwill and sort of expected as diplomatic gift. so including it in adiplomatic tussle isn't exactly wrongOriginally posted by weiqimun:on the contrary, i think u misunderstood me. i am saying exactly tt sg shld not expect anything in return from indo. if u want to help, go ahead but pls do not expect favor in return.
repatriation and humanitarian help are 2 separate thing. it shldn't be link together. sgp's habit of `negotiating as a package', e.g. with malaysia over the bridge issue as well, is not done in all good faith. (i do agree tt the msia's water/brigde negotiation is slightly trickier, but humanitarian effort is a straight forward thing. u help becos there is a dire need and u have the resources. to tie it to `something' is not right. -
S'pore loves to play by the rules. But we sometimes forget that in Southeast Asia, the written rules are not as important than the 'unwritten' rules. S'pore must have pissed off someone important in Indonesia, but we didn't get to hear about this in our tight media. In retaliation, Indonesia does what it can to teach us a lesson.
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sometimes in life, we need to get smarter. we do not have to explicitly spell it out to get it.Originally posted by hisoka:the problem is the help is indeed tied to something. next time if there is a chance you see if we don't help what they will say. the help is taken as a gesture of goodwill and sort of expected as diplomatic gift. so including it in adiplomatic tussle isn't exactly wrong
u help someone n expecting nothin' in eturn; when a return help is needed in the future, ppl generally reciprocate. sometimes, u get more than what u asked for.
a side track, many a times, business is done on a handshake. -
why they so like that? Well, this is one of the reasons:
Jakarta Post
Feb 26, 2007
By Huala Adolf, Bandung
The Indonesian government's attempts to coerce Singapore into signing an extradition pact have been met with a lukewarm response. Jakarta has used various means to push the island state to sign the treaty since the 1980s.
It has been widely reported that the sand export ban has been one of the means Jakarta has used to press Singapore to do it.
Using the sand export ban as a tactic to compel Singapore will be ineffective, or even backfire. Singapore's response that the ban was a "disappointment" indicates that this will continue to be the case.
Jakarta's expectation the extradition treaty will be signed is quite high. There is the expectation here that by signing the treaty, the assets of corrupt Indonesians being kept in Singapore can easily be returned home.
But is it true that the treaty would be a guarantee that this would happen?
One thing that is quite clear from Singapore's position is that the city state is always happy when the assets of its citizens, permanent residents or rich foreigners are saved in Singaporean banks, or invested in Singaporean property.
There is no data on the amount of money or assets owned by wealthy Indonesian being invested or saved in the city state. The true fact is that, to many corrupt Indonesians, Singapore has been a safe haven to hide their assets.
But we need to remember that the root of the problem is not the position of Singapore. The cool response of Singapore should not be regarded as showing that Singapore is not cooperative on this matter.
In fact, the root of the problem is at home. We should ask why the assets left Indonesia so easily, why official corruption is so rampant, and why enforcement is so weak.
There have been many cases where the suspects, despite having been arrested by law enforcement officers, have easily left the country.
Likewise, it is an open secret that a person banned from travelling out of the country can easily pass through many Indonesian ports to easily leave the country.
Another reason why the extradition treaty with Singapore will not be effective is those being targeted in anti-corruption efforts are mostly well-educated.
They are smart. Singapore is in fact not the only safe haven to conceal their assets. They could transfer their assets to any nation or foreign bank under their wife's, children's or relatives' names.
They could invest their money in a whole host of ventures, including buying shares or providing loans. They could even easily change their name on their passport.
There has been no convincing evidence that the extradition treaty will successfully return ill-gotten assets to Indonesia.
Indonesia has already signed a numerous bilateral extradition treaties with many countries, including Malaysia, the Philippines and Hong Kong. There is no data to suggest the signing of these treaties has proven successful in bringing these assets back.
Another reason why an extradition treaty would not be easily effective is that it has to deal with the Singaporean legal system.
Even if the treaty does come into effect, the transfer of a criminal or suspect must first of all meet requirements for the transfer of prisoners set out in Singaporean law.
In this respect, the Singaporean executive must first get the approval of the Singaporean judiciary. As far as the Singaporean judicial system is concerned, the executive cannot interfere. This process should be understood by Jakarta.
An extradition treaty with Singapore will not be effective if the root problems of rampant corruption and weak legal enforcement are still out of control.
(The writer is lecturer in the Faculty of Law, University of Padjajaran, Bandung.) -
For thjat we may have the hard ware but do we have the software??? ren zhai ke shi shi xin bu zhai????Originally posted by headset:Ha ha yah man... i say we reestablish our contacts with israil and develop a defence force that mirrors their defence capabilities. I think only they jknow our pain. Surrounded by stupid shit heads...
Indeonesia's military streangth in proportion cannot match ours. In our immediate region i believe we have the most powerful defence force. Both in numbers and machinery. -
duno y the govt so stupid.
give our money to them then they still bully us.
stupid! -
Gib or dun gib will still kenna bullied....maybe the difference is "how serious we kenna bullied"....
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to those who are unkind to us, don't think we will hesitate to hammer.Originally posted by erict_79:For thjat we may have the hard ware but do we have the software??? ren zhai ke shi shi xin bu zhai????
lately there is report that malaysia navy intrude into indon water and there are voices demanding the indon govt to protest. In the report, the indon official admit that although they have warship patroling but these ships are not fighting fit. They know the neighbouring country always intrude their water but really can't do much with their old grandfather hardware. But of course they can still yaya though they know they are just paper tiger and no one is afraid of them.