Has "Lightning Bolt" gone mad?
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Announcing ministerial pay increase when they are debating GST hike in parliament.
Are they so confident that they will lose 2011 election so they are giving themselves goodies before they vacate the premises they occupied since 1959?
So which is which? GST goes up to fund pay increase, or Pay increase because need to offset increased GST?
Seriously, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?????
Why is it that we normal, non-elistist simply don't understand what good cause they are genuinely doing for the people?Ministerial, civil service salaries expected to go up
No uniform revision this time; wages will also be more closely tied to performance
By Zakir Hussain
THE pay of ministers and civil servants is expected to go up soon, after the Government announces salary revisions next month.
But there will not be a 'uniform, across-the-board large revision' for all 60,000 civil servants.
This is unlike 2000, when pay went up by an average of 13 per cent across the board.
This time round, increases will depend on how far civil servants' pay has lagged behind the private sector, said Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean, who oversees civil service matters.
Services with pay lagging significantly behind the private sector will get bigger adjustments, while those closer to the market will get smaller ones, he said.
For example, pay in the Administrative Service has not been revised since 2000 and has fallen sharply behind private sector salaries in the past two years.
Such civil servants are likely to get bigger rises to keep pace with the private sector.
Salaries of ministers, judges and statutory appointment-holders are pegged to the Administrative Service salary structure, so their pay is also expected to rise when the changes are announced.
Another important change is that salaries will be linked more closely to performance.
Mr Teo disclosed these changes in Parliament yesterday following questions from several MPs.
'As private sector wages rise, the wages of civil servants cannot remain stagnant,' he said.
'We do not aim to lead private sector salaries, but we must keep pace.
'If we are not responsive, we will lose our ability to recruit and keep able people. This will do great harm to Singapore as we would have lost one key advantage over other countries - a clean, competent and effective civil service.'
Mr Teo said the public sector had felt the impact of the tightening labour market. He made a similar point in November last year, when he said salaries were likely to rise.
For example, more civil servants are resigning. The resignation rate rose from 4.8 per cent in 2005 to 5.7 per cent last year.
The problem is more severe in some services. The management executive service for graduates saw resignations rise from 7.4 per cent in 2005 to 10.6 per cent last year. At entry grade, the resignation rate is 25 per cent.
While attrition rates in other services are not yet high, 'we should not wait till these services are bleeding badly before we move to retain and maintain competitiveness', said Mr Teo.
Ms Annie Yap, CEO of recruitment firm GMP, said salaries tend to be higher in the private sector.
While starting wages in the public and private sectors are similar, private sector salaries tend to be 10 to 20 per cent higher for top wage earners, she said.
Mr Teo explained that the new salary structure will tie pay more closely to performance, in line with private sector practice, where about 25 per cent or more of pay depends on performance.
This is a good principle to follow, to 'reward deserving civil servants and sustain a high-performance culture in the civil service', said Mr Teo.
Asked how the civil service ensures good outcomes, he acknowledged that it has no financial bottom line. But part of senior officers' pay is linked to Gross Domestic Product growth.
'We feel that is also a good way of getting senior civil servants...to focus on outcomes of that type,' he said.
[email protected] -
Hmm...every policy they have announced so far is all done in the name of preemption. If things goes their way then i have nothing to say.
But man is no god. Sooner or later there will bound to be mistakes. And I hope their salaries will take a similarly drastic fall as their mistakes. -
their mindset is set on if got money, then got able people wanting to take up the political job. no $ nobody wants.
but our mindset is, if we really wanna serve the country as a political leader, we shouldnt care about the pay.
2 perceptions, 2 parties. who is right? -
Hmm...every policy they have announced so far is all done in the name of preemption. If things goes their way then i have nothing to say.
But man is no god. Sooner or later there will bound to be mistakes. And I hope their salaries will take a similarly drastic fall as their mistakes.
1 mistake they make all of us suffer just like a chain they on top we below when damage comes we will suffer below. -
They wanna increase their salaries AND what can u do???~~~~
Please note that it's just to announce to people that they're going to do this. Not announce to discuss with people....
So, LPPL -
Finally, the real reason for the GST has come out.
They said increase of GST will be used to fund the programmes like Workfare etc. But it seems to me quite a lot has been dedicated to the corporate tax cut.
As what they do always, the real reason for everything will come out quickly later in a heck-care attitude.
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Oh well...what they're doing are transparent to the people...so as to avoid "dun say i never say hor..."
But then, got say or no say, it's just an announcement.... -
what else is new in uniquely sinkgapore?
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They very well know WE ALL and YOU ALL, cannot and dare not, do anything about whatever they 'openly' announced to do.
They will tell you they are going to increase their salaries, and there's nothing you can do or say to change their minds. If you question them more, they give you cok-&-bull story as reason, and increase their pay anyway.
So what the hell can you all do? Vote them some more? Because they can keep the economy going for you all or themselves???
Think it about .... -
I seriously cannot believe that pay is the major issue in the rise of the resignation rate amongst civil servants. If civil servants wanted money so much they would have joined the private sector in the first place and not take up civil service at all. Other factors, such as staff morale and support for government policies, work environment etc., must be more important. The government would do well to look more into that.
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its more of an excuse to hike their pay even more amid the debate on the GST increase.. becuz they think people are so engrossed in the gst,not many might give attention on regarding their 'proposal' for the increase of pay rise... oh sorry did i say proposal?Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:I seriously cannot believe that pay is the major issue in the rise of the resignation rate amongst civil servants. If civil servants wanted money so much they would have joined the private sector in the first place and not take up civil service at all. Other factors, such as staff morale and support for government policies, work environment etc., must be more important. The government would do well to look more into that.
i mean com'on , lets be sensible here lar, how much are the current minister's /mps(notmentioning their other 'part time' jobs already drawing? and it is still not enough? why in the world do they emphasis and be so concerned about the pegging of their salary to what private sectors are paying and what not?
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Now think about it, GST hike's objective have to do with thier wanting to increase thier salaries. The initial motive of increasing GST is to want a pay hike? Helping the poor is just a mere excuse to conceal thier real motive?
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Why do you think American blood flow in foreign soil for Freedom and Democracy?Originally posted by Ponders:Announcing ministerial pay increase when they are debating GST hike in parliament.
Are they so confident that they will lose 2011 election so they are giving themselves goodies before they vacate the premises they occupied since 1959?
So which is which? GST goes up to fund pay increase, or Pay increase because need to offset increased GST?
Seriously, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?????
Why is it that we normal, non-elistist simply don't understand what good cause they are genuinely doing for the people?
Why do you think America is the most powerful nation in the world?
Sure China can become a super power without Democracy but will they not become a monster and go mad like "Lightning Bolt"?
Peasants don't think. Please do not equate the masses with the people that bother to do some thinking in the forums. As long as "Lightning Bolt" controls the mass media, they can do anything they want without checks and balances. -
No no no.
Increase GST is to help the poor.
Help.
The.
Poor. -
they should peg their ministerial pay to those of other countries...
and not to the private sectors... -
ohh.. That means our private sector pple shd also peg themselves to that in third world country?Originally posted by GHoST_18:they should peg their ministerial pay to those of other countries...
and not to the private sectors...
Is that a good proxy?
Admin staff in China prob earns $200/mth? Do you think we ought to benchmark against them since we are doing similar work? -
Is it any surprise that the govt will use the psychological approach to 'brainwash' the people that their ministers are deserving of such pompous pay?
By repeating the decision to raise ministerial salaries to match top earners in the private sector, they are simply trying to condition the people to eventually agree to the salary adjustment when it is finally implemented. Debating the issue in parliament is simply a way to lent it legitimacy, regardless of how distasteful and skewed it is.
Without performance indicators to determine whether or not ministers are in fact underachieving or meeting their annual targets, if any, what kind of sordid attempt is this by the MIW?
Leading developed nations must be utterly disgusted by our claims of a corruption-free govt, when our own ministers continue to 'pat themselves on the back' and reward themselves with FAT BONUSES (taxpayer's monies) without any justification to the people, lending even MORE CREDIBILITY to the previous claims of 'legitimised corruption'.
Pegging their salaries to private sector top professionals implies that they must produce the same results as their private counterparts.
Have they achieved this modest target? -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
It's always sexy to go govt-bashing, and claiming tt the whole S'pore was 'brainwashed'...
Is it any surprise that the govt will use the psychological approach to 'brainwash' the people that their ministers are deserving of such pompous pay?
By repeating the decision to raise ministerial salaries to match top earners in the private sector, they are simply trying to condition the people to eventually agree to the salary adjustment when it is finally implemented. Debating the issue in parliament is simply a way to lent it legitimacy, regardless of how distasteful and skewed it is.
Without performance indicators to determine whether or not ministers are in fact underachieving or meeting their annual targets, if any, what kind of sordid attempt is this by the MIW?
Leading developed nations must be utterly disgusted by our claims of a corruption-free govt, when our own ministers continue to 'pat themselves on the back' and reward themselves with FAT BONUSES (taxpayer's monies) without any justification to the people, lending even [b]MORE CREDIBILITY to the previous claims of 'legitimised corruption'.
Pegging their salaries to private sector top professionals implies that they must produce the same results as their private counterparts.
Have they achieved this modest target? [/b]
For one, we have one of the best public service tt the world looks to for guide. May not be the best ard, but we certainly have a credible service.
Are we able to say the same for the local banks? local manufacturing firms (if any since most are foreign MNCs)? Creative and SIA are prob two names most can name, but hey, they are faltering too...
And how sure are you tt these pple do not 'give' themselves millions at EGMs? Wee Cho Yaw earns >$20m a year... Sure, u may say he deserves them coz he made $$$$ for UOB n his other companies... But whiy is it tt u can agree with this amt when u can't think draw an equivalent to our to[ ministers?
Is $1m per year too much? Maybe...
But do they deserve it? I have no qualms abt tt... -
It's hard to say one thing and believe in another.Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:I seriously cannot believe that pay is the major issue in the rise of the resignation rate amongst civil servants. If civil servants wanted money so much they would have joined the private sector in the first place and not take up civil service at all. Other factors, such as staff morale and support for government policies, work environment etc., must be more important. The government would do well to look more into that.
If you know what I mean. Most civil servants are there as professionals, but when policies clash with their innate values, they might choose to leave. -
Problem is... the "private" sectors they are pegging to consists of people who are themselves sitting in the same premises the ministers do debates.Originally posted by GHoST_18:they should peg their ministerial pay to those of other countries...
and not to the private sectors... -
Thus explaining the sudden departure of certain ministers.Originally posted by LazerLordz:It's hard to say one thing and believe in another.
If you know what I mean. Most civil servants are there as professionals, but when policies clash with their innate values, they might choose to leave. -
Wee Cho Yaw has every right to give himself a pay bordering on millions. Unlike TT Durai, however, he has a board of directors to definitively evaluate his performance and determine whether he has met his annual targets.Originally posted by Lim Beh Ka Li Kong:It's always sexy to go govt-bashing, and claiming tt the whole S'pore was 'brainwashed'...
For one, we have one of the best public service tt the world looks to for guide. May not be the best ard, but we certainly have a credible service.
Are we able to say the same for the local banks? local manufacturing firms (if any since most are foreign MNCs)? Creative and SIA are prob two names most can name, but hey, they are faltering too...
And how sure are you tt these pple do not 'give' themselves millions at EGMs? Wee Cho Yaw earns >$20m a year... Sure, u may say he deserves them coz he made $$$$ for UOB n his other companies... But whiy is it tt u can agree with this amt when u can't think draw an equivalent to our to[ ministers?
Is $1m per year too much? Maybe...
But do they deserve it? I have no qualms abt tt...
Can the same be said of our ministers? Which review board has been commissioned to evaluate their performances?
My previous post already mentioned that private sector equivalents must justify their salary through results, results which are determined by others and not by themselves. If they are instrumental in driving profits for their respective companies, surely they will deserve their wage packages at the end of the day?
How do our ministers justify their pay packages? A convenient peg to top earners of private sector professionals without the standards to meet?
Incidently, how 'best' do you define our public service?
Can it be compared to those in developed nations like Scandinavia and NZ, where their leaders earn a pittance compared to the millions our ministers take home, yet they produce better quality standards in an adminstration system they can be proud of as a nation?
Can Sim Wong Hoo and Ng Kai Wa even be used as Singaporean examples of successful professionals to be salary-pegged by our ministers, when our own country's short-sightedness rejected their visionary attempts to introduce 'creative' sound into the home PC?
They are rightly reaping the rewards of their entrepreneurship in more gracious pastures, but have not forgotten their home, nor charity virtues.
Is SIA 'faltering' like you claim? Or are they in a mini-resurgence due to competition from budget carriers and emerging contenders such as emirates and lufthansa, in addition to rising fuel prices and wage costs?
At least get your facts right before you start making such counter-claims.
Based on the track record of SIA over the years and faced with stiffer competition than ever, surely the top brass in SIA have some measure of performance to at least justify their salaries? -
China's economy is roaring...Originally posted by BillyBong:Wee Cho Yaw has every right to give himself a pay bordering on millions. Unlike TT Durai, however, he has a board of directors to definitively evaluate his performance and determine whether he has met his annual targets.
Can the same be said of our ministers? Which review board has been commissioned to evaluate their performances?
My previous post already mentioned that private sector equivalents must justify their salary through results, results which are determined by others and not by themselves. If they are instrumental in driving profits for their respective companies, surely they will deserve their wage packages at the end of the day?
How do our ministers justify their pay packages? A convenient peg to top earners of private sector professionals without the standards to meet?
Incidently, how 'best' do you define our public service?
Can it be compared to those in developed nations like Scandinavia and NZ, where their leaders earn a pittance compared to the millions our ministers take home, yet they produce better quality standards in an adminstration system they can be proud of as a nation?
Can Sim Wong Hoo and Ng Kai Wa even be used as Singaporean examples of successful professionals to be salary-pegged by our ministers, when our own country's short-sightedness rejected their visionary attempts to introduce 'creative' sound into the home PC?
They are rightly reaping the rewards of their entrepreneurship in more gracious pastures, but have not forgotten their home, nor charity virtues.
Is SIA 'faltering' like you claim? Or are they in a mini-resurgence due to competition from budget carriers and emerging contenders such as emirates and lufthansa, in addition to rising fuel prices and wage costs?
At least get your facts right before you start making such counter-claims.
Based on the track record of SIA over the years and faced with stiffer competition than ever, surely the top brass in SIA have some measure of performance to at least justify their salaries?
At one point, their premier was earning abt USD800, I believe...
You really shd be there...
ohh... talking abt 'facts'..
wow, i think i gave more figures and stats then u did...
comparing us to scandinavians jus becoz u 'think' they are better...
wow... and trust u to believe forbes wholesale, and not looking at other reports...
and u think board of directors are really tt neutral?
who appts them?
how much do they know abt the running?
what happened in Enron and NKF?
Anyway, I have never said UOB and SIA are bad...
but if they can be paid remuneration based on tt result, how far off is our public service when it comes to international standings?
I really like your sense of 'impartiality' on fair comparison...
why dun u take a look reports from PERC / WB / WEF and a list of other sources before commenting?
Performance is measured by RESULTS, not whether they are public or private?
Look ard you and I hope u can still say our govt sucks when compared to the rest of the world... -
hmm... can your post be more credible by being less sarcastic?Originally posted by Lim Beh Ka Li Kong:China's economy is roaring...
At one point, their premier was earning abt USD800, I believe...
You really shd be there...
ohh... talking abt 'facts'..
wow, i think i gave more figures and stats then u did...
comparing us to scandinavians jus becoz u 'think' they are better...
wow... and trust u to believe forbes wholesale, and not looking at other reports...
and u think board of directors are really tt neutral?
who appts them?
how much do they know abt the running?
what happened in Enron and NKF?
Anyway, I have never said UOB and SIA are bad...
but if they can be paid remuneration based on tt result, how far off is our public service when it comes to international standings?
I really like your sense of 'impartiality' on fair comparison...
why dun u take a look reports from PERC / WB / WEF and a list of other sources before commenting?
Performance is measured by RESULTS, not whether they are public or private?
Look ard you and I hope u can still say our govt sucks when compared to the rest of the world... -
Originally posted by Ponders:hmm... can your post be more credible by being less sarcastic?
Uh oh...
On hindsight, I tink i got a little carried away when pple say i have to get my facts right before commenting...
so yup, it reads sarcastic...
and yup, uncalled for...
jus trying to get the point across...
that we should not criticise the govt merely for the sake of it...
it's not perfect, with room for improvement, but it's pretty okay...
so, no offences, really...