Has "Lightning Bolt" gone mad?
-
I can agree that some forummites do blindly lash out at the government out of spite.Originally posted by Lim Beh Ka Li Kong:
Uh oh...
On hindsight, I tink i got a little carried away when pple say i have to get my facts right before commenting...
so yup, it reads sarcastic...
and yup, uncalled for...
jus trying to get the point across...
that we should not criticise the govt merely for the sake of it...
it's not perfect, with room for improvement, but it's pretty okay...
so, no offences, really...
But perhaps it is time for you to realise that not everyone here is guilty of that. When we criticise the government, we do so because we feel that what they have in mind may not be good for the sake of Singapore. We support policies that are good, and oppose policies that are bad. In the end, we only want to see what is best for Singapore.
As you pointed out, the government is not perfect. It is not infallible. So if we see that something doesn't seem to be right, we point out what we feel is wrong and try to figure out what should be done instead.
That is what being Singaporean is all about. Not blind obedience and subservience to those in charge, but working together for a better place for all Singaporeans to live in.
- Fudgie -
Well said. This is the kind of attitude we need Singaporeans to have.Originally posted by fudgester:I can agree that some forummites do blindly lash out at the government out of spite.
But perhaps it is time for you to realise that not everyone here is guilty of that. When we criticise the government, we do so because we feel that what they have in mind may not be good for the sake of Singapore. We support policies that are good, and oppose policies that are bad. In the end, we only want to see what is best for Singapore.
As you pointed out, the government is not perfect. It is not infallible. So if we see that something doesn't seem to be right, we point out what we feel is wrong and try to figure out what should be done instead.
That is what being Singaporean is all about. Not blind obedience and subservience to those in charge, but working together for a better place for all Singaporeans to live in.
- Fudgie -
But some "singaporeans" don't want us to think to have this kind of attitude so those "singaporeans" can sit comfortably where they are sitting.Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:Well said. This is the kind of attitude we need Singaporeans to have. -
There is nothing to lose.
-
Governments are supposed to be working for the people, not for the money. But if high salaries are justified by preventing ministers from being corrupted, then it is nothing new here
-
legalised vice....
-
That's tantamount to telling people, since it's dangerous for druggie to purchase drugs illegally, because they might contain other dangerous chemicals. We shall legalise drugs so that they won't be poisoned by other hazardous chemicals, because since retailers of drugs are registered the quality of the drugs can be checked.Originally posted by mrwonderful:Governments are supposed to be working for the people, not for the money. But if high salaries are justified by preventing ministers from being corrupted, then it is nothing new here -
Next thing you know, workfare bonus is going to be implemented into ministerial pay.
They did mention that the raise will be slightly factored by a performance variable. Will that depend on how well you can hip hop or praises you can sing for a policy that might soon come into action eg gst hike.? -
That's their justification. Why must we buy it?Originally posted by mrwonderful:Governments are supposed to be working for the people, not for the money. But if high salaries are justified by preventing ministers from being corrupted, then it is nothing new here
We've got our own brains, and we're definitely not going to buy anything at face value. Get real. -
I think the female Malaysian MP, was good at apple polishing, to the effect that our PM and SM were smiling gleefully. I think she will get a good performance bonus this year.Originally posted by ditzy:Next thing you know, workfare bonus is going to be implemented into ministerial pay.
They did mention that the raise will be slightly factored by a performance variable. Will that depend on how well you can hip hop or praises you can sing for a policy that might soon come into action eg gst hike.? -
You mean the one who mentioned the hike was a caring and compassionate move by the government?Originally posted by maurizio13:I think the female Malaysian MP, was good at apple polishing, to the effect that our PM and SM was smiling gleefully. I think she will be a good performance bonus this year. -
Yah, about her telling her story of going back to Malaysia for Chinese New Year and relatives saying that she is going to get filthy rich soon because she's an MP. Then she rebutted the relatives saying that Singapore is not like Malaysia, it's an honest government........yadayadayadayada.Originally posted by ditzy:You mean the one who mentioned the hike was a caring and compassionate move by the government?
Bollocks!!!
Can't imagine the current plight of parliament, it's suppose to be a place to discuss policies and issues. Now it's used by career minded individuals to apple polish and pursue their own self interest.
Maybe next time instead of doing hip hop dance, they can teach all the MPs to perform cheerleading routines with pom poms. -
I don't understand how these people can sleep so peacefully at night.Originally posted by maurizio13:Yah, about her telling her story of going back to Malaysia for Chinese New Year and relatives saying that she is going to get filthy rich soon because she's an MP. Then she rebutted the relatives saying that Singapore is not like Malaysia, it's an honest government........yadayadayadayada.
Bollocks!!!
Can't imagine the current plight of parliament, it's suppose to be a place to discuss policies and issues. Now it's used by career minded individuals to apple polish and pursue their own self interest.
Maybe next time instead of doing hip hop dance, they can teach all the MPs to perform cheerleading routines with pom poms. -
I looked around.. and I seeOriginally posted by Lim Beh Ka Li Kong:Performance is measured by RESULTS, not whether they are public or private?
Look ard you and I hope u can still say our govt sucks when compared to the rest of the world...
more MRT suicides...
http://tomorrow.sg/archives/2007/03/03/another_mrt_sucide_at_woodlands_.html
a perfect example of our swiss standard of living
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/vnc2005/Swiss_Standard_of_Living/
more bankruptcies
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/070302/3/470nq.html
widespread unhappiness... LOL
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htm
more coincidences of rising fares to boost our economy after the election
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/229899/1/.html
http://singaporeserve.blogspot.com/2007/01/erp-rates-at-three-expressways-to-go-up.html
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/216935/1/.html
more people... most likely immigrants
http://www.straitstimes.com/portal/site/STI/menuitem.5184b9e5238fb92293c89138e3a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=00f88490f045e010VgnVCM1000000a35010aRCRD&vgnextfmt=vgnartid:b5d8c0ec337a0110VgnVCM100000430a0a0aRCRD
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/258236/1/.html
more jobs going to foreigners... shld be 70% but i see 45% in the link.. my memory must be failing
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/251939/1/.html
more offers for foreigners by our local world class universities
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2862/1607/1600/702769/bursary.jpg
Things are certainly looking up and i'm indeed grateful
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/127762.asp
anyone else care to add on what you see around you? -
Didn't someone promise the country they'd qualify for the football World Cup by 2010(yeah, we still have 3 years to go...I'm sure we'll win the World Cup when 2010 comesOriginally posted by monkeywarriors:I looked around.. and I see
more MRT suicides...
http://tomorrow.sg/archives/2007/03/03/another_mrt_sucide_at_woodlands_.html
a perfect example of our swiss standard of living
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/vnc2005/Swiss_Standard_of_Living/
more bankruptcies
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/070302/3/470nq.html
widespread unhappiness... LOL
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htm
more coincidences of rising fares to boost our economy after the election
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/229899/1/.html
http://singaporeserve.blogspot.com/2007/01/erp-rates-at-three-expressways-to-go-up.html
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/216935/1/.html
more people... most likely immigrants
http://www.straitstimes.com/portal/site/STI/menuitem.5184b9e5238fb92293c89138e3a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=00f88490f045e010VgnVCM1000000a35010aRCRD&vgnextfmt=vgnartid:b5d8c0ec337a0110VgnVCM100000430a0a0aRCRD
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/258236/1/.html
more jobs going to foreigners... shld be 70% but i see 45% in the link.. my memory must be failing
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/251939/1/.html
more offers for foreigners by our local world class universities
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2862/1607/1600/702769/bursary.jpg
Things are certainly looking up and i'm indeed grateful
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/127762.asp
anyone else care to add on what you see around you? ) and also secure a medal at the Olympics?
Talk about legitimate corruption...
-
They dont think, they just do it!Originally posted by Ponders:Announcing ministerial pay increase when they are debating GST hike in parliament.
Are they so confident that they will lose 2011 election so they are giving themselves goodies before they vacate the premises they occupied since 1959?
So which is which? GST goes up to fund pay increase, or Pay increase because need to offset increased GST?
Seriously, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?????
Why is it that we normal, non-elistist simply don't understand what good cause they are genuinely doing for the people?
So how, what r we going to do about it?
Nothing!!!!!
Remember someone did mentioned about sending in the army if there will be a freak election result?
Talking about banning public citizen demonstration is to prevent violence from happening.
Now who is prepared to bring about bloodshed in order to protect their own elite positions.
Seriously, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING????? -
the saying goes:
can't beat them, join them.
can't join them, make yourself scarce. -
Its wrong to presume that only high salaries promote job loyalty and attract talents. There are many other factors like the work environment, the managers way of management or even office politics.
Lets focus on the problem the public sector is experiencing. The problem is high resignation rate not the failure to attract talents. Government should examine herself for this failure instead of taking the easy way out.
Government comparing herself with the private sector is like comparing apple with oranges. The stress level in private sector is much much higher than public sector. The chances of claiming OT in private sector is nil. There is no 9 to 5 job or even 5 day work week. Bonuses always vary there is no such thing as a solid 13 month bonus. Go and try to find such jobs in public sector. -
about 5 years ago, one chap I knew who worked in the Public sector was paid $30K. He resigned to work in the private sector (not GLC) and lost his job.Originally posted by NewAge:Its wrong to presume that only high salaries promote job loyalty and attract talents. There are many other factors like the work environment, the managers way of management or even office politics.
Lets focus on the problem the public sector is experiencing. The problem is high resignation rate not the failure to attract talents. Government should examine herself for this failure instead of taking the easy way out.
Government comparing herself with the private sector is like comparing apple with oranges. The stress level in private sector is much much higher than public sector. The chances of claiming OT in private sector is nil. There is no 9 to 5 job or even 5 day work week. Bonuses always vary there is no such thing as a solid 13 month bonus. Go and try to find such jobs in public sector.
An ex P*P minister's wife (mutual friend) told me:
"Only the government will pay him $30K. When you are outside, getting $5K is also difficult." -
Originally posted by Lim Beh Ka Li Kong:
Incidently, what 'more' figures did you provide in your argument? Or did your vivid imagination lead you to 'believe' that you actually provided factual figures in the first place?
China's economy is roaring...
At one point, their premier was earning abt USD800, I believe...
You really shd be there...
ohh... talking abt 'facts'..
wow, i think i gave more figures and stats then u did...
comparing us to scandinavians jus becoz u 'think' they are better...
wow... and trust u to believe forbes wholesale, and not looking at other reports...
and u think board of directors are really tt neutral?
who appts them?
how much do they know abt the running?
what happened in Enron and NKF?
but if they can be paid remuneration based on tt result, how far off is our public service when it comes to international standings?
I really like your sense of 'impartiality' on fair comparison...
why dun u take a look reports from PERC / WB / WEF and a list of other sources before commenting?
The impartiality, not 'neutrality' as you put it, of any board of directors is subject to scrutiny, and for each board of directors, there is a panel reviewing their individual performances, on top of the chairman.
In the case of the old NKF, while the likes of Matilda Chua, Loo Say San and Richard Yong were revealed as 'compliant poodles' bowing to the whim and fancy of TT Durai, do we have any reason to doubt the credibility of UOB and its board?
Can you suggest why we should begin to doubt any board of directors for that matter? Are you suggesting that every member of such a panel within their own private firm are in collision to 'dupe' their respective shareholders?
At least there are appointees within each private company who monitor the activities and performances of their senior staff. Can the same be said of our cabinet ministers?
Instead of making hollow accusations that statistics and reports from Forbes lack credibility, what proof do you have that the profit findings are inaccurate? Making such contentious claims merely exposes your own inadequacy to respond when shown the data. The Forbes report was used because it summarised the net profit declared by SIA in a lump sum, making it simple to interpret. Sowing confusion by referencing various statistical data will merely befuddle the issue, rather than provide clarity.Anyway, I have never said UOB and SIA are bad...
Should i take your statement above seriously? Or do you have selective memory?Creative and SIA are prob two names most can name, but hey, they are faltering too...
How else should i interpret your claim above other than 'bad'?Performance is measured by RESULTS, not whether they are public or private?
I totally agree that results govern the determination of monetary incentive. But for every denomination, there must be a formula to determine that. In layman terms, it is termed 'performance indicators'.
Look ard you and I hope u can still say our govt sucks when compared to the rest of the world...
What tangible performance indicators have the government revealed to evaluate the results of their ministers? Mah Bow Tan was just quoted recently in claiming that HDB flats will be kept 'affordable' in the near future, but what does he mean by affordable? A single 3-foot flat is already a 6-figure sum, and HDB was recently unable to respond convincingly to a comment that HDB flats are sold at a discount and not a subsidy as claimed by HDB.
More lip service from Mah? Do we measure our ministers in this manner? By word of mouth and generalisation? -
maybe they 'dun sleep' at all..Originally posted by ditzy:I don't understand how these people can sleep so peacefully at night. 
-
Originally posted by ditzy:I don't understand how these people can sleep so peacefully at night.
Simply by changing the penal code to 20 years imprisonment for striking an MP.Originally posted by 4getmenot:maybe they 'dun sleep' at all.. 
If you are a good MP, working for the best interest of every Singaporean, why worry about citizens whacking you?????
-
exactly ! they want to be placed on a pedestal and be worshipped by subservient peasants. lolOriginally posted by Young@heart:If you are a good MP, working for the best interest of every Singaporean, why worry about citizens whacking you????? -
Dont u know that when one enter public services without any prior work exp in private sector your chances of getting a good job in the private sector is very very low. Even if one have private working experience few will want to hire them for one the knowledge they have is obsolete (it has been proven that knowledge become old every 2 year).Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:about 5 years ago, one chap I knew who worked in the Public sector was paid $30K. He resigned to work in the private sector (not GLC) and lost his job.
An ex P*P minister's wife (mutual friend) told me:
"Only the government will pay him $30K. When you are outside, getting $5K is also difficult." -
Pay comparison between private and public sector is not straightforward. For example, would it make sense for the government to hire Sim Wong Hoo or Wee Cho Yaw at their current pay, even if we all agree that the two are worth their high pay?
The key question is whether the government officers are doing a good job at in public administration to justify a higher pay. I don't really care how government rewards its officers, as long as its service level is upheld.
The way to justify the increase in civil service pay is not to always draw a comparison with private sector pay. PM should spell out concrete measures for greater transparency in the way government sets and achieves targets eg. improving public transport, reduction waiting times at polyclinic etc. If government can make those targets, then it can rightly justify higher pay for its officers.
