There's Been Enough Incidents, STOP Debating!
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If there's are any authorities from SMRT reading in here, please get off your arses and put up those blinking glass panels!!!
In the first place, why build MRT platforms with no Barriers? Or is it like HDB Upgrades where you pass the buck on to people later when LIFTS at every level are necessary??? No fore-sight???
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Multiple accidents ignite glass panel debate
March 06, 2007
YESTERDAY's incident was the second close-shave at an MRT platform in just three days.
On Friday, a woman in her 50s broke her right leg after she was hit by a train at Woodlands MRT station.
She was pinned under the train but was freed by an SCDF rescue team.
Northbound train services were disrupted for about an hour on Friday afternoon and close to 3,000 passengers were affected.
Also in the news recently were two videos containing footage of MRT track incidents - one at Yishun and one at Admiralty - which spread on the Internet.
This sparked a discussion on the value of protective glass panels on MRT platforms.
In November, Madam Cynthia Phua, MP for Aljunied GRC, raised the issue in Parliament.
Minister for Transport Raymond Lim replied that the Land Transport Authority would assess the effectiveness of the panels before making a decision.
Madam Phua recently told The New Paper that after a trip to Hong Kong, she was impressed with the shoulder-height glass panels she saw at train stations there.
The SMRT had considered installing similar panels but eventually decided against it. An SMRT spokesman said this was because the panels would not effectively eliminate suicide attempts as people could still climb over them.
However, the LTA's main concern was that the costs associated with installing the panels might have to be borne by commuters in the form of higher fares. -
The indecisiveness reminds one of the ridiculous situation of employing 3 groups of separate Public Transport Specialist Consultants to advise the Government with their separate feasibility stuides whether to go ahead with the construction of a MRT system.
Was it a surprise when each group was engaged - one after the other - and returned with three separate and completely differing positions ?
Even when the three expert groups returned with three conflicting reports - (one for an all bus sytem, and the other for a solely MRT system, and the final report that seems to be a compromise of the previous two reports) - the government and LTA seemed to be even more confused.
Separate teams led by Cabinet Ministers globe trotted the world to study the MRT systems of major cities in the East and West before a final decision was made to proceed with the MRT.
It seems that the Government was then undecided if Singapore should be one of the major metropolis that qualify to have an MRT system.
What was the amount spent - on top of the publicised S$2 Million fee paid to the three groups of Transport Consultants - for the globe trotting study trips before a final decision was made to move ahead with an MRT system ?
Will we be spending another equal amount before installing some form of physical barrier for the open platforms of elevated MRT stations ?
Whatever happen to local initiative and local imagination to resolve such issues ?
Is there a dearth of talent at the local level, or has the identified talented prefer to play politics instead of showing their talent to lead ?
Will it be safer to make decisions based on someone else's input, or to take the initiative based on one's instinctive assessment of the situation ? -
I am one of those who do not agree with implementing barriers for SMRT train stations.
This concept of barrier-less overhead stations is derived from european and western societies, where most have a substantially large network of metro stations above ground. In such a case, introducing a protective barrier to prevent people from 'accidentally' falling onto the tracks will not be cost effective.
People die everyday, and throwing themselves in front of a train is probably not new in countries like UK and USA. Yet their societies have not seen fit to erect protective barriers to deter would-be suicides.
In retrospect, placing a barrier may limit the number of people who conveniently use SMRT as a means of committing suicide, but it doesn't take away the intention.
It was miraculous that in the initial years of operation, SMRT did not already suffer from such incidents. The recent spat of copycat suicides is just something unavoidable.
If we go back several years, i recall a Mercedes Benz that somehow jumped off the road, plowed through the fencing and ended up on the SMRT train tracks at Lentor, right in the path of an oncoming train. On that occasion, civic- mindedness saved the day when fellow road-users 'rescued' the driver from the car while others ran ahead of the advancing train to warn the pilot.
Ironically, the driver was later arrested on suspicion of drink-driving (or was it drugs-related?).
In that incident, sufficient barriers were erected, yet such a freak catastrophe occured.
Can we safely say barriers will solve all our problems? -
All I can say it is odd that the MRT has been in service since the 80's and these incidents have only occured in more recent times. Perhaps the solution is beyond these barrier panels and the onus should be passenger's own caution.
However, it is a ridiculous notion that the cost of barrier panels to be borne by the passengers. In every year the SMRT makes a profit, do they redistribute this surplus back to passengers? A company, much less a GLC should be not guaranteed a profit year-on-year. It is ridiculous to put the consumers in a position to guarantee profits for these GLCs. Any cost, especially that towards safety, should be borne wholly and soley by SMRT.
They already made substanial retained earnings over the years. That should more than cover the cost of the panels. -
if not wrong MRT system use our CPF saving to build
therefore they have 2 different group operate together initially
SMRT & MRTS
but when GOV sold the system to private operator & listed stock exchange (stock listed company)
where did our CPF saving profit?
how can they took the CPF saving? invested, make money? where the return?
Our GOV use our CPF saving?
invested initially, with minimum seed funding.
sell the system @ market price.
get the company listed ( public money again)
just as good as
invested S$10.00
sold the system market price S$ 400.00
public listed
http://www.smrt.com.sg/investors/financial_highlights.html
SMRT Corporation Ltd is Singapore's premier multi-modal transport service provider offering integrated island-wide transport services. Established in 1987, SMRT has been listed on the Singapore Exchange since July 2000. In its core transport business, it delivers safe, reliable and friendly travel for commuters through its comprehensive network of 51 MRT stations, the Bukit Panjang LRT System, as well as a fleet of over 2,600 taxis and 800 buses plying 76 routes. Beyond transport, SMRT offers advertising and commercial space within its network. Leveraging its expertise in land transport, SMRT also offers operations and maintenance services, engineering consultancy and project management expertise in Singapore and overseas.
SMRT has an annual turnover of more than S$700 million and total assets worth S$1.4 billion. Incorporated on 6 March 2000, SMRT has been listed on the main board of the Singapore Exchange since 26 July 2000 and has a market capitalisation of approximately S$1.7 billion. -
btw, whatever happened to personal responsibility?
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Agree.... if i can't jump from MRT station and jump from 10th floor HDB, will you want the Govt to fence up all the HDB flats in S'poreOriginally posted by the Bear:btw, whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Remember that HDB also ''used'' CPF $$$ to bulit.
If ppl start getting kill while crossing the road, do u intend to fence up all the road also
There are near daily death on S'pore's road..... I know
Lets ban all cars from the road.... that should solve all the problem 
When will this end
SMRT like every company in the WORLD is to make profit...... even thought only for the ''Share Holder'' and not common ppl like you & me..... but if the cost of bulit the fence + aircon the station will increase cost..... you think SMRT won't use this as and excuse to rise price again Then we will have Posting complainting about the rise in ticket price even when we were the one who demanded the fence to be setup..... -
Originally posted by hloc:
even easier idea, lower the tax, give us better pay,
Agree.... if i can't jump from MRT station and jump from 10th floor HDB, will you want the Govt to fence up all the HDB flats in S'pore Remember that HDB also ''used'' CPF $$$ to bulit.
If ppl start getting kill while crossing the road, do u intend to fence up all the road also
There are near daily death on S'pore's road..... I know Lets ban all cars from the road.... that should solve all the problem
When will this end
SMRT like every company in the [b]WORLD is to make profit...... even thought only for the ''Share Holder'' and not common ppl like you & me..... but if the cost of bulit the fence + aircon the station will increase cost..... you think SMRT won't use this as and excuse to rise price again Then we will have Posting complainting about the rise in ticket price even when we were the one who demanded the fence to be setup.....[/b] -
People want to commit suicide, panel or no panel oso won't deter them. Dey can still sun and smash their heads against the panels wat!
Then pple say put up the panels for wat........?
There are always two sides to everything!
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debate what fuck?!
Most of these cases are accidents not suicide attempts.
fucking hell.
raising prices will mean they get to collect extra revenue till eternity.
If they want to raise, fine. But raise until costs are covered.
by the way, this stinking attitude of revenue over customer saftey is utterly disgusting.
By all right, they shouldnt even dream of raising prices when putting the barriers up. -
If you wanna die, building glass panels would mean nothing anyway.
Also, if you're not feeling well, why so stewpid enough to stand close to the yellow line?
Cheers.
C.K -
No need to raise costs lah....... Eating in mrt stations and trains are supposed to be punishable with fines. Yet I dun see the mrt authorities actively imposing this. I 've almost never failed noticing pple eating and/or drinking in the trains, some of whom are beri blatant summore.....!
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Yeah..... lower taxes, give more pay..... free housing + cars.... You start a govt with these 'gifts' i confirm vote for you....... but before you suggest this 'Easy Idea'.... pls see possible or not in the REAL WORLD....Originally posted by allentyb:even easier idea, lower the tax, give us better pay,
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Seen many ppl eating & drinkin on the MRT...... NEVER saw anyone kena caught before.... incl ME...... so, don't think enough $$$ will come.Originally posted by :No need to raise costs lah....... Eating in mrt stations and trains are supposed to be punishable with fines. Yet I dun see the mrt authorities actively imposing this. I 've almost never failed noticing pple eating and/or drinking in the trains, some of whom are beri blatant summore.....!
Would rather SMRT fine those A*shole who play music out from their handphone for all to 'enjoy'...... maybe take their handphone away then sell to 2nd H/P shop....... that would make $$$ -
I agreed.Originally posted by CKeer:If you wanna die, building glass panels would mean nothing anyway.
Also, if you're not feeling well, why so stewpid enough to stand close to the yellow line?
Cheers.
C.K
If a person wants to die, even if there is a bullet-proofed glass panel, thet person will still find some ways to end his/her life. -
please note.. the recnt spat of events have been accidents and not suicides.Originally posted by CKeer:If you wanna die, building glass panels would mean nothing anyway.
Also, if you're not feeling well, why so stewpid enough to stand close to the yellow line?
Cheers.
C.K
Are we gonna continue until accidents lead to more deaths? -
Well, accidents can be prevented but i think building glass panels would be wasting money anyway.Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:please note.. the recnt spat of events have been accidents and not suicides.
Are we gonna continue until accidents lead to more deaths?
Reasons:
1. Maintenance(It has to be wiped clean becos this is Singapore. )
2. Like i've metioned earlier, if u're not feeling well, isn't is stewpid to stand close to the yellow line when you know that one slip could have caused your life.
3. Building Glass Panels would mean that train service would be terminated for a period of time.
There might be more reasons which i cant think of them now.
Cheers.
C.K -
Maintenace isnt a good reason. If we can afford all the luxuries now, is it so difficult to clean a simple glass pannel?Originally posted by CKeer:Well, accidents can be prevented but i think building glass panels would be wasting money anyway.
Reasons:
1. Maintenance(It has to be wiped clean becos this is Singapore. )
2. Like i've metioned earlier, if u're not feeling well, isn't is stewpid to stand close to the yellow line when you know that one slip could have caused your life.
3. Building Glass Panels would mean that train service would be terminated for a period of time.
There might be more reasons which i cant think of them now.
Cheers.
C.K
Termination of train services is bullcrap. Works can be carried out at night to solve that problem. If we can close major roads for roadworks, i dont see why we cant do the same for our rail system.
And if you've taken a train before, you'll know that there is close to no standing room during peak hours. One doesnt need to be sick for an accident to happen.
try harder
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Ok, let me first start by asking you what kind of glass panel are u referring to? Glass panels like those of underground stations or those build a feet apart from one another, leaving space for the door opening?Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:Maintenace isnt a good reason. If we can afford all the luxuries now, is it so difficult to clean a simple glass pannel?
Termination of train services is bullcrap. Works can be carried out at night to solve that problem. If we can close major roads for roadworks, i dont see why we cant do the same for our rail system.
And if you've taken a train before, you'll know that there is close to no standing room during peak hours. One doesnt need to be sick for an accident to happen.
try harder
Either of those requires lots and lots of money. On top of that, who will guarantee that glass panel would stop accidents like those from happening?
Carried out at night? How many train stations are there in Singapore? Those that are not underground. You'll need lots of manpower and on top of that, the equipments.
Why do incidents like those that happened recently doesn't appear like, 10 years ago?
I've taken train during peak hours and i've a place to stand that is far away from the yellow line. Those that squeezed in front are the kiasu ones, waiting to seize the opportunity to grab a seat. The smarter ones would have stepped back.
Think harder.
Cheers.
C.K -
again, this is personal responsibilites!! if u not feeling well, den dun stand close to the yellow line! when i am unwell and taking public transport, i usually watch myself closer, and remind myself, such as when i am taking MRT train, i wont stand close to the yellow line and wad so ever. in fact, nobody should even stand at the yellow line before the train arrives because it is dangerous.Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:please note.. the recnt spat of events have been accidents and not suicides.
Are we gonna continue until accidents lead to more deaths?
if a person wants to commit suicide by jumping off HDB flats, does it mean we shall stop building HDB and demolish all of them? cannot be wad, if so, people will still go to buildings in shenton way to jump off. in the United States or london, their underground railway does not even have such gates or barrier built in, unlike our singapore underground MRT station. It has also already been said that the cost of building such barrier in our existing stations is high. and whether is it effective in deterring such accidents is another story. look at it this way, if u build a barrier, u will need to aircon the whole station because there will be not enough airflow inside the station.
anyone who studies econs or do business will know that it is really expensive to build aircon and facilities into our exisiting stations. That is why u see that NEL has woodleigh station build on it, even though it is nt opened and nobody lives in the surrounding. but as the govt foresees that there will be development around the stations in the next few years, this station will be viable and critical. if the station is not build and only a few years later dey build it, it would be much more expensive~ -
Look at it this way lah:
We have been fortunate all these years to avoid all these incidents, but the recent spike is disturbing.
But I think the logic is as follows, if there's no barrier it's only a matter of time, no matter how much education, before somebody ends up on the track.
The barrier is just that: a safety net. The foolproofness of your barrier is dependent on how much you are willing to build... a full system or just the blocking one like in Hongkong (I am more for the latter in the meantime)?
As for suicides, can't really stop them... but I think our main concern is avoiding those deaths and injuries that come from stupidity or carelessness and what have you not... if we can stop these then why not?
As for the costs... I wonder if it's really that expensive or that we are not being creative enough or just plain lazy. Any kind of barrier would be better then none... even those ugly makeshift bannisters with chains or what have you not... -
If totally enclose from the track, mean there's automated door like those underground station one. They can install station by station, not necessary overnight all station must have. if totally enclosed, safer and got air-con shiok shiok some more.
Build can build, but lay chey lah. See they want to build only a not, need to install the metal works and rewire the circuits, reload the software, test the system, debug and...........
So if they start working after the last train around 12.30am, there have about 5.5 hrs to completed , everything, and get ready for the 1st passenger to take the train, if got problem, hoh sey liao everybody take bus. -
Even in London, the Underground stations in the city do not have screens between the platform and the tracks. A terrorist could place a globe filled with anthrax spores on the tracks and infect the whole city when the train runs it over and scatters the virus.Originally posted by BillyBong:I am one of those who do not agree with implementing barriers for SMRT train stations.
This concept of barrier-less overhead stations is derived from european and western societies, where most have a substantially large network of metro stations above ground. In such a case, introducing a protective barrier to prevent people from 'accidentally' falling onto the tracks will not be cost effective.
People die everyday, and throwing themselves in front of a train is probably not new in countries like UK and USA. Yet their societies have not seen fit to erect protective barriers to deter would-be suicides.
In retrospect, placing a barrier may limit the number of people who conveniently use SMRT as a means of committing suicide, but it doesn't take away the intention.
It was miraculous that in the initial years of operation, SMRT did not already suffer from such incidents. The recent spat of copycat suicides is just something unavoidable.
If we go back several years, i recall a Mercedes Benz that somehow jumped off the road, plowed through the fencing and ended up on the SMRT train tracks at Lentor, right in the path of an oncoming train. On that occasion, civic- mindedness saved the day when fellow road-users 'rescued' the driver from the car while others ran ahead of the advancing train to warn the pilot.
Ironically, the driver was later arrested on suspicion of drink-driving (or was it drugs-related?).
In that incident, sufficient barriers were erected, yet such a freak catastrophe occured.
Can we safely say barriers will solve all our problems?
However, having barriers at above-ground stations like those underground ones may mean having to spend more on air conditioning. This wastes more energy. -
Yeah, full of $hit aren't you?Originally posted by hloc:Would rather SMRT fine those A*shole who play music out from their handphone for all to 'enjoy'...... maybe take their handphone away then sell to 2nd H/P shop....... that would make $$$ -
No..... those A*shole who 'share' their music on their loudspeaker really really PISSES me off...... the $$$ will be put to good use..... like saving some other A*shole who can't take care of themselve and don't understand ''NOT to step over the yellow line''.......Originally posted by iveco:Yeah, full of $hit aren't you?