Maid policies should be changed
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mushroom, why don't you come up with some evidence of your own instead of merely pooh-poohing at Atobe? You have valid points, but so does Atobe. Answer his questions, please. Evidence to justify your sweeping statements, please.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I suppose they don't teach precis writing in school nowdays...either that or Atobe must have been a poor student. His reading and comprehension also leaves much to be desired.
I have conceded that the majority of Singaporeans do not favour a change in the law and indeed the Minister is not at all keen to rock the boat. There is no political will to do so when most Singaporeans think like Atobe.
They want their maids at $300 a month, work 18 hours a day, seven days a week without any right to movement or free association. Whilst folks like Atobe can hardly guarantee that their teenage daughters are not having sex with boyfriends outside the house, they want to ensure that their maids are chaste as the Virgin Mary
Well, I maintain our policies on domestic maids have to be changed, but that will not happen for a long time to come. The fact is, Singaporeans want compliant, cheap domestic maids in the house with as few rights as possible. By the same token, other compliant, cheap foreign workers are taking away jobs from Singaporeans. I suppose that's rough justice. -
Sweeping statements? That's a particular skill of Atobe, I am afraid...I do not profess to have that level of competence.Originally posted by spinsugar:mushroom, why don't you come up with some evidence of your own instead of merely pooh-poohing at Atobe? You have valid points, but so does Atobe. Answer his questions, please. Evidence to justify your sweeping statements, please.
Do the majority of Singaporeans give their maids a day off every week? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the working hours of their maids or give them off time each day? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to freely make friends with who they will? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to call home or their friends as and when they like, even if they pay for their own phone bills? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the movement of their maids?
Answer that and you will know if the majority of Singaporeans are abusive employers. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Should we be surprised that for someone who unabashedly publicize self-inflated qualifications and credentials, you seem to show a sudden uncharacteristicly selective modesty in this instance ?
Sweeping statements? That's a particular skill of Atobe, I am afraid...I do not profess to have that level of competence.
Let's see a few samples of recent creative statements that you have made that deride Singaporeans in one unthinkingly cursory broad sweep:Sweeping Statements by Oxford Mushroom:
Can you offer a similar list of evidence to back up your claim of sweeping statements coming from my posts ?
"The majority of Singaporeans are happy to treat their maids as they do and there is therefore no incentive for the government to change the legislation." - 09 March 2007 - 04:54 AM
"Unfortunately, as I have said, the majority of Singaporeans are abusive employers" -
11 March 2007 - 07:47 PM
" It is precisely because the majority of Singaporeans favour the status quo that the government is not in a rush to change the law.
Human rights? Singaporeans' human rights are far more protected compared to those of foreign maids. " - 14 March 2007 - 03:42 AM
"Whilst folks like Atobe can hardly guarantee that their teenage daughters are not having sex with boyfriends outside the house, they want to ensure that their maids are chaste as the Virgin Mary ...
Singaporeans want compliant, cheap domestic maids in the house with as few rights as possible" - 15 March 2007 - 04:21 AM
Evidence.... evidence..... why are you afraid to subject yourself to your own standards ?
Without evidence to substantiate your claims, is that not tantamount to making sweeping statements with those hollow claims ?
How big is your estimated number from the 4.5 MILLION Singaporeans will you count to be included into your category of 'majority of Singaporeans' ?
Do the majority of Singaporeans give their maids a day off every week? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the working hours of their maids or give them off time each day? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to freely make friends with who they will? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to call home or their friends as and when they like, even if they pay for their own phone bills? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the movement of their maids?
Answer that and you will know if the majority of Singaporeans are abusive employers.
Can you answer that before you expect others to answer it for you ?
Mushrooms are known to grow well in the dark, and can we expect you to survive in the brilliance of truth ? -
I would also ask the question about most Singaporean employees - do they get overtime pay for working overtime or they have to keep quiet because of the fear of getting fired. How many Singaporeans actually work office hours only without the need for overtime?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Do the majority of Singaporeans give their maids a day off every week? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the working hours of their maids or give them off time each day? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to freely make friends with who they will? Do the majority of Singaporeans allow their maids to call home or their friends as and when they like, even if they pay for their own phone bills? Do the majority of Singaporeans limit the movement of their maids?
Answer that and you will know if the majority of Singaporeans are abusive employers.
Fair employment goes both ways in society. My friends and relatives have to work overtime and with overloads without getting paid. It is about shutting up or getting fired in favor of foreign cheaper labor.
So we can talk all we want about the welfare of domestic workers but nothing will be done if overtime without pay, or even overwork without pay is happening to Singaporeans as well. -
I AM an expatriate and have lived in Singapore for the past 15 years. I love Singapore and consider it my home.
But, sad to say, there is an ugly side to Singapore that really upsets me. It is the treatment of maids here by their employers and maid agencies.
A maid friend of mine recently came back to Singapore to work and said she would phone me on arrival. But she didn't make contact until two weeks later as she wasn't allowed to use the telephone.
She was finally able to reach me when she took her employer to the hospital and could use the public phone. What she told me about the agency absolutely appalled me.
She was told she couldn't have any days off, her dresses were taken away from her and they told her she wouldn't need them as she would wear T-shirts and shorts. T hey took her address book with all her phone numbers in it. Luckily she memorised my number. To top it off, they made her cut her hair like a boy.
Wake up, Singapore. What is going on here? This a blatant case of abuse. What about the rights of these poor women who come here purely so their family can eat and their children can go to school?
Wendy Geraldine Koh (Mrs)
(Straits Times 19 Mar)
Why should anyone be surprised if folks like Atobe is representative of Singaporeans? Unfortunately, Singaporeans don't consider these abusive practices are objectionable. They see it as their right as employers. -
Then I ask you the same question again. Do you think Singaporeans have alot of rights as employees?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I AM an expatriate and have lived in Singapore for the past 15 years. I love Singapore and consider it my home.
But, sad to say, there is an ugly side to Singapore that really upsets me. It is the treatment of maids here by their employers and maid agencies.
A maid friend of mine recently came back to Singapore to work and said she would phone me on arrival. But she didn't make contact until two weeks later as she wasn't allowed to use the telephone.
She was finally able to reach me when she took her employer to the hospital and could use the public phone. What she told me about the agency absolutely appalled me.
She was told she couldn't have any days off, her dresses were taken away from her and they told her she wouldn't need them as she would wear T-shirts and shorts. T hey took her address book with all her phone numbers in it. Luckily she memorised my number. To top it off, they made her cut her hair like a boy.
Wake up, Singapore. What is going on here? This a blatant case of abuse. What about the rights of these poor women who come here purely so their family can eat and their children can go to school?
Wendy Geraldine Koh (Mrs)
(Straits Times 19 Mar)
Why should anyone be surprised if folks like Atobe is representative of Singaporeans? Unfortunately, Singaporeans don't consider these abusive practices are objectionable. They see it as their right as employers. -
"Birds of the same feather, flock together"Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
I AM an expatriate and have lived in Singapore for the past 15 years. I love Singapore and consider it my home.
But, sad to say, there is an ugly side to Singapore that really upsets me. It is the treatment of maids here by their employers and maid agencies.
A maid friend of mine recently came back to Singapore to work and said she would phone me on arrival. But she didn't make contact until two weeks later as she wasn't allowed to use the telephone.
She was finally able to reach me when she took her employer to the hospital and could use the public phone. What she told me about the agency absolutely appalled me.
She was told she couldn't have any days off, her dresses were taken away from her and they told her she wouldn't need them as she would wear T-shirts and shorts. T hey took her address book with all her phone numbers in it. Luckily she memorised my number. To top it off, they made her cut her hair like a boy.
Wake up, Singapore. What is going on here? This a blatant case of abuse. What about the rights of these poor women who come here purely so their family can eat and their children can go to school?
Wendy Geraldine Koh (Mrs)
(Straits Times 19 Mar)Why should anyone be surprised if folks like Atobe is representative of Singaporeans? Unfortunately, Singaporeans don't consider these abusive practices are objectionable. They see it as their right as employers.
Surely, you cannot be so simple minded to claim your position to be justified by quoting a single like-minded condescending personality ?
Sure we can believe her to to be an expatriate - simply for being married to one ?
Are there no similar cases of citizens being charged for abuses in other countries - whether in the West or East ?
Are those employed as maids, butlers, and servants in the First World Countries not being imposed with an even higher standard of discipline, behaviour, and rules of the house concerning work ethics, timing, persons whom they associate with during and after work hours ?
Why have you avoided the repeated question - "what is the number from the 4.5 Million Singaporeans that will form the magic number to fit your 'MAJORITY OF SINGAPOREANS' that are abusive towards maids ?"
Perhaps we can believe you - if you can come up with that number to prove that Singaporeans are truly abusive, or are you simply void of any more feathers when you have been already so clearly laid bare ? -
From a past BBC report in 2001, can we infer that the British are even more barbaric in their apetite to tolerate slavery even in this Twenty-First Century ?
There was a figure of 10,000 children being enslaved as household servants - are we correct that there were 10,000 UK residents willing to enslave these innocent children ?African children 'enslaved in UK' dated Thursday, 8 November 2001 10.36GMT BBC.
Are the maids that were supposedly abused by the 'MAJORITY of Singaporeans' enslaved like those African children ?
Hundreds of West African children have been brought illegally into Britain and other European countries in a modern-day form of slavery.
An investigation by BBC Radio 4's Today programme, triggered by the case of Victoria Climbié, revealed that young children are promised a life of unparalleled luxury and a good education by distant relatives or family friends.
Their penniless parents readily agree they should leave West Africa.
But the dream ends seconds after they get off the plane in Europe: they are put to work around the home as domestic slaves and never set foot in a classroom.
Some are beaten and abused, others end up as the sexual playthings of paedophiles.
Police fear many are being trafficked to Europe so their relatives can claim a host of welfare benefits.
Beaten and burned
Today journalists travelled to the Ivory Coast to investigate the death of Victoria Climbié, who was taken from the country's capital, Abidjan, to Britain by her aunt, Marie Therese Kouao in the spring of 1999.
Victoria, who was eight, was tied up and made to lie naked in a freezing cold bath in winter and was beaten and burned.
When she died, after seven months of torture, she had 128 injuries on her body.
An inquiry is currently underway to find out how Victoria ended up being the victim of her cruel aunt and her lover, Clinton Manning, who were both jailed for life.
There are thought to be 10,000 West African children living with strangers in the UK, many of whom may not be living the lives they had been promised.
Mary was brought to Britain from Benin by a stranger at the age of ten and worked 17 hours a day for ten years.
She was regularly beaten and starved, sometimes for days on end.
When she asked why she had been brought to Britain, she was told it was "business" - meaning the woman could claim child benefits.
She said: "I always feel angry about why this has happened to me. It hurts. I just pray to God to give me strength."
Forced to eat cat food
Mary is still in Britain, but many others flee back to their native countries as soon as they get the chance.
Debe was taken, aged 13, to Italy by a white friend of his father.
For three years he was a sex slave to the man and his paedophile friends.
He was beaten daily and forced to eat cat food. He finally ran away to the Ivorian Embassy in Rome and was returned home.
Debe told the Today investigators: "I am a victim, I am in pain. I can't even look at myself in the mirror."
Organised gangs
Karin Astrom, the head of Save the Children in the Ivory Coast, said organised gangs across West Africa were trafficking children, with the collusion of government officials.
She said: "Children are being brought to Europe to be exploited, either for work or sexually.
"It is poverty which is creating this phenomenon. Certainly it is organised, with involvement at high levels - even government in some countries. But, like all mafia or cartels, it's difficult to know."
Our West Africa correspodnent Mark Doyle says that while there is some political will among governemtn's to tackle the issue, resources for agencies like the police who should stamp out the trade are cruelly lacking.
'Maid Market'
Among fruit sellers and scrap metal dealers in the bustling Adjame market district of Abidjan, Today investigators discovered a "maid market" - a ramshackle, corrugated iron and wood shack where human beings were bought and sold.
Teenage girls, posing serenely on long benches, can be bought for as little as £5.
The necessary documents needed to transport a child to Europe could also be quickly acquired through corruption.
After a few minutes outside the Ministry of the Child, Welfare and the Family, a tout approached an African producer posing as a hopeful parent - $500 and less than 12 hours was all he needed for the paperwork to be in order, and for the stranger to become, officially, his daughter.
The British Ambassador to the Ivory Coast, Francois Gordon, accepts not all of the 200-300 visa issued annually to children are for the genuine offspring of the applicant.
He said: "We are aware of the risk of impersonation. People pretending that young people are their own children when in fact they are more distant family members or not related at all."
Charity officials said the trafficking of children from English-speaking West African states, such as Nigeria, was on an even greater scale than from French-speaking Ivory Coast.
Is your self-inflated superiority misplaced in deriding Singaporeans with a c-o-c-k-eyed view and exaggerating the issue in the same manner as you inflate your own capability ? -
Actually having a maid can be quite handful. I am relating from my personal experience. I gave my first maid plenty of freedom because she had proven herself to be very responsible and most important, my daughter like her a lot. She had worked with us for a good 4 yrs.
When me and my wife go to work, we would bring her to my mom-in-law's place, and stay with her maid, so that they can accompany each other. One day, my mom-in-law called home to give some instructions for dinner and nobody picked up the phone, even after 10 mins of calling. We rushed home from work and saw her maid chatting up with an Indian man at the void deck and my maid missing. Worst thing is, my 2yrs old daughter is at home alone sleeping. We calculated, its a good 45 mins that they leave my daughter alone at home.
After she came back, she said she went jogging at the park. Furious at this irresponsible behaviour and ridiculous excuse, we send her back to the agency. And that is when all the truth start to surface. Both of them start hurling accusation at each other, about each other's affairs with their boyfriend and meeting them at my mom-in-law's house. Since then, we dismissed both of them and send my daughter to full day child care.
When we have this maid, we want to give her monthly day off even when she is not entitled to (cos she's from Indonesia) but she refused and requested for more money instead.
And 1 year later, we employed another maid to help my wife out with housework, because i have to attend a long course in US. After working for a week, she ran away from home, while we were at work. Eventually we found out from the agency that she ran away to the embassy. The agency told us that they would handle the case. Who knows after 3 days, she ran away from embassy also. The worst thing is, the $5,000 security bond was forfeited. My wife received a letter from Maybank, asking for payment. She appealed to MOM but was rejected, despite the fact that i am in US and she's alone and need to work. She seeked help from MP twice but was futile. MOM said the only option is for her to locate the maid within 3 months, in order for the fine to be refund.
I am here airing my grievance not to gain any sympathy, but to bring a point across that when something happen to a maid, it might not necessary be the employer's fault. So whatever that u read on paper could just be superficial information. So by changing the policy as per what you said might not solve those problems which you mentioned earlier.
By the way, may i ask whether you have employed a maid before? If yes, what is your experience? -
I have a maid at home and well, we allow her to watch TV, make her phone calls using the house phone (local only), go down to meet her friends, increase her pay voluntarily etc etc. As long as her work is done and she is there when we need her to be, we are alright. She has not brought any trouble and we have given her more leeway. This bridge of trust has not been broken. However, we make it clear that if anything untoward happens, there will be consequences.
In fact, if any change in maid policy, it should be that, the maid should be responsible for at least half or all the $5000 security deposit. We hire the maid to work with us and if she suddenly takes off, why should we pay? Do we ask employers in singapore to put $5000 deposit for their employee?
It irks me when those expatriates try to act high and mighty, claiming to love singapore and taking the higher moral ground. -
well, pay part. mainly if u look carefully, most fillipinas r educated. as in really highly educated. whereas indon maids, either lowly educat or non at all.Originally posted by blueheeler:I think the country were maids come from also affect their working conditions. I think the Phillipines govt insist that their maids get paid a higher salary (than, lets say, Indonesian maids) and a day off every month. The Indonesia govt stipulates that their maid get a lower salary and the monthly day off is not compulsory. So, sadly, most of our maids are Indonesian, and they get low wages and no days off.
I feel that for any S'porean to employ someone else to work for them and NOT give them a day off EVER, it amounts to serious abuse of workers' rights. Something must change, if we see ourselves as compassionate S'poreans.
it goes the same in SG. higher educated gets higher pay n low educated get lower pay no matter which line u r in.
the off part, it depends on the maid herself. if she duwan the offday even she's entitled, employers can choose to give or not to give extra money to her. but most employers prefer they're maids to go ahead with the off day so dey no need to give monetary replacement.
well, sometimes u gotta accept dat maids will always be maids. employees will forever be employees. in office, u dun even dare or "entitled" to argue for more right, not to say maids. ur hse is their office.
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same here. so long the maid dun give us additional probs, we r ok with anything as long as she do what's she's suppose to do n NOT take things for granted.Originally posted by jianfish9:I have a maid at home and well, we allow her to watch TV, make her phone calls using the house phone (local only), go down to meet her friends, increase her pay voluntarily etc etc. As long as her work is done and she is there when we need her to be, we are alright. She has not brought any trouble and we have given her more leeway. This bridge of trust has not been broken. However, we make it clear that if anything untoward happens, there will be consequences.
In fact, if any change in maid policy, it should be that, the maid should be responsible for at least half or all the $5000 security deposit. We hire the maid to work with us and if she suddenly takes off, why should we pay? Do we ask employers in singapore to put $5000 deposit for their employee?
It irks me when those expatriates try to act high and mighty, claiming to love singapore and taking the higher moral ground. -
anyway, heard dat this yr, all maids' pay will be increased to another $50 to $100.
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True, and i think thats what most singaporeans is worried about when their maids just run off by themself and shirking responsibilities. Its the employer that bears the brunt for the irresponsible act of the maid.Originally posted by jianfish9:I have a maid at home and well, we allow her to watch TV, make her phone calls using the house phone (local only), go down to meet her friends, increase her pay voluntarily etc etc. As long as her work is done and she is there when we need her to be, we are alright. She has not brought any trouble and we have given her more leeway. This bridge of trust has not been broken. However, we make it clear that if anything untoward happens, there will be consequences.
In fact, if any change in maid policy, it should be that, the maid should be responsible for at least half or all the $5000 security deposit. We hire the maid to work with us and if she suddenly takes off, why should we pay? Do we ask employers in singapore to put $5000 deposit for their employee?
It irks me when those expatriates try to act high and mighty, claiming to love singapore and taking the higher moral ground.
At most the maid would just be sent back and the travelling fees, be it by air or sea, to be paid by employers. So you cant really blame some employers for holding on a tight rein onto their maids. -
Should it be any surprise that the Resident Fungi - that suckle on the juice of a race that arrogantly claim itself to be a World Leader - will now also similar harbor such arrogance even towards its own roots ?
Despite the discovery in 2001 of 10,000 African Children found to be enslaved in UK, should it not be a surprise that a 2003 study sponsored by the International Labor Organization had failed to include UK, USA and the European Union - in the many countries studied for the conditions of the domestic help employed.'Domestic work, conditions of work and employment: A legal perspective'
Was there any political accomodation to avoid any study in the manner that butlers and chambermaids continue to exist in the upper crust of the 'White Man's Society' - and is nothing more then a glorified version of the ancient social structure of Ruler and Serfs relationship ?
Extracted from Page 7 of the referenced ILO Study, (or Page 13 of 106 PDF pages):
The countries for which legislation has been analysed are Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Canada (Ontario), Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Gabon, Guatemala, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iran, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Lao People=s Democratic
Republic, Lebanon, Madagascar, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Mongolia, Namibia, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Singapore, South Africa, Spain, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland, Sweden, United Republic of Tanzania, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
Are the employment conditions imposed on the butlers and chambermaids no different from the expectations that Singaporean employers expect from their foreign maids ?
Do the butlers and maids switch themselves off during the after-hours, or are they similarly at the beck and call of their employers, whom they live with ?
It is simply churlish of the resident fungi to believe himself an authority on this subject - while residing and sucking on the 'White Man's charity' - prefering to turn a blind eye to the atrocious social attitude of his master's 'White Man's society' while happily lashing out at his own Roots. -
My aunt's maid threaten to kill her children because my aunt wanted to send her back to Indonesia . She had stolen things, invited strangers into the house etc.Originally posted by max_007:Actually having a maid can be quite handful. I am relating from my personal experience. I gave my first maid plenty of freedom because she had proven herself to be very responsible and most important, my daughter like her a lot. She had worked with us for a good 4 yrs.
When me and my wife go to work, we would bring her to my mom-in-law's place, and stay with her maid, so that they can accompany each other. One day, my mom-in-law called home to give some instructions for dinner and nobody picked up the phone, even after 10 mins of calling. We rushed home from work and saw her maid chatting up with an Indian man at the void deck and my maid missing. Worst thing is, my 2yrs old daughter is at home alone sleeping. We calculated, its a good 45 mins that they leave my daughter alone at home.
After she came back, she said she went jogging at the park. Furious at this irresponsible behaviour and ridiculous excuse, we send her back to the agency. And that is when all the truth start to surface. Both of them start hurling accusation at each other, about each other's affairs with their boyfriend and meeting them at my mom-in-law's house. Since then, we dismissed both of them and send my daughter to full day child care.
When we have this maid, we want to give her monthly day off even when she is not entitled to (cos she's from Indonesia) but she refused and requested for more money instead.
And 1 year later, we employed another maid to help my wife out with housework, because i have to attend a long course in US. After working for a week, she ran away from home, while we were at work. Eventually we found out from the agency that she ran away to the embassy. The agency told us that they would handle the case. Who knows after 3 days, she ran away from embassy also. The worst thing is, the $5,000 security bond was forfeited. My wife received a letter from Maybank, asking for payment. She appealed to MOM but was rejected, despite the fact that i am in US and she's alone and need to work. She seeked help from MP twice but was futile. MOM said the only option is for her to locate the maid within 3 months, in order for the fine to be refund.
I am here airing my grievance not to gain any sympathy, but to bring a point across that when something happen to a maid, it might not necessary be the employer's fault. So whatever that u read on paper could just be superficial information. So by changing the policy as per what you said might not solve those problems which you mentioned earlier.
By the way, may i ask whether you have employed a maid before? If yes, what is your experience? -
Singapore, December 7, 2005) – Women migrant domestic workers in Singapore suffer grave abuses including physical and sexual violence, food deprivation, and confinement in the workplace, said Human Rights Watch in a new report released today.
At least 147 migrant domestic workers have died from workplace accidents or suicide since 1999, most by jumping or falling from residential buildings. Migrant domestic workers earn half the wages of Singaporean workers in similar occupations, such as cleaners or gardeners. Unpaid wages is a growing complaint.
“Many domestic workers labor without pay for months to settle debts to employment agencies, work long hours seven days a week, or are confined to their workplace,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “Singapore’s refusal to extend ordinary labor protections to domestic workers is leaving them open to abuse.”
The 124-page report, “Maid to Order: Ending Abuses against Migrant Domestic Workers in Singapore,” is based on more than one hundred in-depth interviews with domestic workers, government officials, and employment agents. It details a range of abuses endured by domestic workers in Singapore and the response of the Singaporean government.
Families in Singapore employ approximately 150,000 women, primarily from Indonesia, the Philippines, and Sri Lanka, as domestic workers. Human Rights Watch said the Singaporean government has instituted some encouraging reforms in the past two years. These include creating mandatory orientation programs for employers and domestic workers, prosecuting cases of unpaid wages and physical abuse, and introducing an accreditation program for employment agencies.
But key labor conditions, such as wages, hours of work, and salary deductions are left to employers and agencies, while domestic workers have little or no bargaining power. Human Rights Watch said that authorities have excluded domestic workers from the country's main labor laws. Starting in January, domestic workers signing new contracts will be entitled to a single day off a month. ....
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/12/07/singap12125.htm -
Read the HUman Rights Watch report
"Maid to Order
Ending Abuses Against Migrant Domestic Workers in Singapore"
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/singapore1205/ -
Is it enforced labour or modern form of slavery? Not protect by labour law domestic workers suffer from long hours, no pay for months, no day offs, locked indoor, no phone calls, no sexual activities, and now the brutal beatings! Why?
......The wages seem exploitative in a country with one of the most affluent societies in Asia and having a per capita monthly income exceeding 2,000 dollars. And for round-the-clock work.
''Even machines need rest,'' says Filipino domestic worker Ellen Elancanal, who has been here for eight years. ''We work so many hours. We must have a day a week, whichever way we want to spend it''. She gets to spend her Sundays with a church choir, or helping fellow workers in trouble.
''Not giving people time off can make people disgruntled and stressed,'' said Helen Tan, spokeswoman for the Association of Employment Agencies, Singapore.
But many employers are wary of 'social problems' and choose to keep their maids at home.
Employers in Singapore risk forfeiting a 3,000 dollar-security bond if the maid goes missing--or if they fail to repatriate her at the end of the contract or in the event of pregnancy.
''They (domestic helpers) know that if they do that (get pregnant), they stand to lose everything. It's not in their interest to jeopardise the money they send home to their families,'' said Braema Mathi, president of Transient Workers Count Too, an agency defending the human rights of workers here.
''If employers are worried about pregnancy, then workers should have sex education. We can't control human behaviour to that extent and say that we are protecting her by not giving her a day off''.
On the ground though, many employers are sceptical about days off. ''They have boyfriends and all that!'' says Mary Lee, 58, a Singaporean homemaker who has employed several domestic workers over the last two decades.
''Some even go to Geylang (Singapore's red-light district) and earn extra cash, you know? We can't control the maids, so it's best that when we employ the maid, we tell the agent we don't want to give days off,'' Lee said.
Fear of 'social problems' causes employers to deny maids a day off and the stress of working without a break results in pent-up frustrations that create rather than solve a delicate problems which can be tackled on with responsibility and understanding.
''The bold maids are often those who have worked here for some time. Their employers trust them and some abuse their privileges,'' said Alice Cheah, owner of the Singapore agency, 'Caregivers Centre', stressing that 'havoc maids' are in the minority.
''Maids should be given days off. It'd be unhealthy psychologically if the maids are cooped up in the house every day. If the maids treasure their jobs, they will behave well,'' Cheah said.
http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=2661 -
What about housewives? Those who take on the role of the maid at home?
Singapore has dozens of households which don't have maids.
These housewives taken on the role of the maid, and more, with other responsibilities such as ensuring that their children produce decent grades.
Are you implying that they overwork as well?
There's a limit to how much housework can be done. If a maid stays in the house for 24 hours, it doesn't mean she is working non-stop for 24 hours.
I'm sure majority of maids have free time at home and are able to pursue their own hobbies, write journals or even converse with maids from neighbouring households.
With regards to the argument about how maids should be allowed to roam freely, lets look at the basic function of the maid in an average Singaporean household.
Most households hire maids as both parents are working adults, having almost no time for the household on weekdays. Thus the maid has to be on standby, as she is "in charge" while no one is around.
What if the baby wakes up, and nobody is around?
or if a senior citizen needs to go to the toilet?
If you really want to know whats "abusive"
take a look at national service.
period. -
Are we supposed to be impressed or intimidated by the three cut and paste response from the Resident Fungi ?
Are these three cut-and-paste extracts from some Google discovery supposed to justify your allegation that the "MAJORITY of Singaporeans are Maid Abusers" ?
Nothing in these three posts come anywhere closer to any number that can possibly justify your false allegation that the MAJORITY OF THE 4.5 MILLION SINGAPOREANS are Maid Abusers.
From a 124 page report, it was only established that 150,000 women were employed by Families in Singapore - without mentioning how many were expatriate families and the actual number of Singaporeans.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Singapore, December 7, 2005) – Women migrant domestic workers in Singapore suffer grave abuses including physical and sexual violence, food deprivation, and confinement in the workplace, said Human Rights Watch in a new report released today.
At least 147 migrant domestic workers have died from workplace accidents or suicide since 1999, most by jumping or falling from residential buildings. Migrant domestic workers earn half the wages of Singaporean workers in similar occupations, such as cleaners or gardeners. Unpaid wages is a growing complaint.
“Many domestic workers labor without pay for months to settle debts to employment agencies, work long hours seven days a week, or are confined to their workplace,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “Singapore’s refusal to extend ordinary labor protections to domestic workers is leaving them open to abuse.”
The 124-page report, “Maid to Order: Ending Abuses against Migrant Domestic Workers in Singapore,” is based on more than one hundred in-depth interviews with domestic workers, government officials, and employment agents. It details a range of abuses endured by domestic workers in Singapore and the response of the Singaporean government.
Families in Singapore employ approximately 150,000 women, primarily from Indonesia, the Philippines, and Sri Lanka, as domestic workers. Human Rights Watch said the Singaporean government has instituted some encouraging reforms in the past two years. These include creating mandatory orientation programs for employers and domestic workers, prosecuting cases of unpaid wages and physical abuse, and introducing an accreditation program for employment agencies.
But key labor conditions, such as wages, hours of work, and salary deductions are left to employers and agencies, while domestic workers have little or no bargaining power. Human Rights Watch said that authorities have excluded domestic workers from the country's main labor laws. Starting in January, domestic workers signing new contracts will be entitled to a single day off a month. ....
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/12/07/singap12125.htm
From the 150,000 womern employed - supposedly on an annual basis (as nothing was mentioned in this number is based on total annual average) - the number of death since 1999 only 147 were killed by either falling off from high rise as a result of work accident or driven to death.
This 147 killed represent only 0.00098 per cent, and 150,000 employed by families in Singapore's population will reveal only 0.033333 per cent of 4.5 million Singaporeans having the ability to employ a maid.
How on earth did you come to your brilliant conclusion that the MAJORITY OF SINGAPOREANS are Maid Abusers ?
Are we supposed to accept the findings of these UK based researches to be infallible or objective with their report ?
The Resident Fungi should show more maturity and more circumspect in the manner that he accept reports from UK based Organisation that has an agenda of its own that continue to treat ex-colonies as being incapable of advancing further that the Coloniser.
What is your magic number that justify your false accusation that the MAJORITY OF SINGAPOREANS are Maid Abusers ? -
Is it not typical of some self-righteous patroniser that will judge other's backyard, and delight in downtrodding others with degrading tales without bothering to look at his own backyard ?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Read the HUman Rights Watch report
"Maid to Order
Ending Abuses Against Migrant Domestic Workers in Singapore"
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/singapore1205/
If the Human Rights Watch is at all concerned of the maids in Singapore since 1999, why have they not taken up the cudgel to represent those children who have been harbored in UK societies as child-slaves ?
Was there any outrageous follow-up revelation in the 10,000 child-slaves smuggled from Africa to UK that were exposed in a BBC report in 2001 ?
See African children 'enslaved in UK' .
If this Resident Fungi claim to be a Resident Expatriate who can harbor such callous views with superficial observation, it clearly show that the writer hardly know Singapore society even after 15 years; and it also show the limited circle that the Resident Fungi have been involved with.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Is it enforced labour or modern form of slavery? Not protect by labour law domestic workers suffer from long hours, no pay for months, no day offs, locked indoor, no phone calls, no sexual activities, and now the brutal beatings! Why?
......The wages seem exploitative in a country with one of the most affluent societies in Asia and having a per capita monthly income exceeding 2,000 dollars. And for round-the-clock work.
''Even machines need rest,'' says Filipino domestic worker Ellen Elancanal, who has been here for eight years. ''We work so many hours. We must have a day a week, whichever way we want to spend it''. She gets to spend her Sundays with a church choir, or helping fellow workers in trouble.
''Not giving people time off can make people disgruntled and stressed,'' said Helen Tan, spokeswoman for the Association of Employment Agencies, Singapore.
But many employers are wary of 'social problems' and choose to keep their maids at home.
Employers in Singapore risk forfeiting a 3,000 dollar-security bond if the maid goes missing--or if they fail to repatriate her at the end of the contract or in the event of pregnancy.
''They (domestic helpers) know that if they do that (get pregnant), they stand to lose everything. It's not in their interest to jeopardise the money they send home to their families,'' said Braema Mathi, president of Transient Workers Count Too, an agency defending the human rights of workers here.
''If employers are worried about pregnancy, then workers should have sex education. We can't control human behaviour to that extent and say that we are protecting her by not giving her a day off''.
On the ground though, many employers are sceptical about days off. ''They have boyfriends and all that!'' says Mary Lee, 58, a Singaporean homemaker who has employed several domestic workers over the last two decades.
''Some even go to Geylang (Singapore's red-light district) and earn extra cash, you know? We can't control the maids, so it's best that when we employ the maid, we tell the agent we don't want to give days off,'' Lee said.
Fear of 'social problems' causes employers to deny maids a day off and the stress of working without a break results in pent-up frustrations that create rather than solve a delicate problems which can be tackled on with responsibility and understanding.
''The bold maids are often those who have worked here for some time. Their employers trust them and some abuse their privileges,'' said Alice Cheah, owner of the Singapore agency, 'Caregivers Centre', stressing that 'havoc maids' are in the minority.
''Maids should be given days off. It'd be unhealthy psychologically if the maids are cooped up in the house every day. If the maids treasure their jobs, they will behave well,'' Cheah said.
http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=2661
Unlike the 10,000 African children that were rounded up like cattle, smuggled into UK, and forced to work under cover as slaves with meagre rewards; the maids in Singapore are paid a salary; although low by comparison of other wages paid in Singapore, the amount paid is far higher than the income that the maid can earn in her country of origin.
Unlike the 10,000 African children, the foreign maids WILLINGLY subject themselves to a Capitalistic "Supply and Demand" mechanism that determine the wage levels, and nobody is forcing these foreign maids from holding a pen and take up the contract to work in Singapore.
As Singaporeans, should we be apologetic to the wages that we are prepared to pay to the foreign maids ?
If our conscience must be affected, how should the conscience of the foreign owned phamarceutical firms be, when the fruits of their researches allow them to dictate the high profit prices for medicinal products that are urgently needed to save lives of those living in the poor Third World Countries ?
Are the Terms of Employment of maids or domestic help in Singapore not similar to the employment of Butlers and Chambermaids employed by the Upper Social Class of European and UK Societies ?
For the sake of security and confidentiality of the Upper Social Crust of the European and UK Societies, are those employed as Butlers and Maids also not subjected to the many stringent rules "on-and-Off" the Job ?
As such, where is the abuse, and what number will lead to the justification of a false statement being repeated that the "MAJORITY OF SINGAPOREANS" are Maid Abusers ? -
So the truth is out as I have previously speculated about your midnight tryst with some maid.....Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I AM an expatriate and have lived in Singapore for the past 15 years. I love Singapore and consider it my home.
But, sad to say, there is an ugly side to Singapore that really upsets me. It is the treatment of maids here by their employers and maid agencies.
A maid friend of mine recently came back to Singapore to work and said she would phone me on arrival. But she didn't make contact until two weeks later as she wasn't allowed to use the telephone.
She was finally able to reach me when she took her employer to the hospital and could use the public phone. What she told me about the agency absolutely appalled me.
She was told she couldn't have any days off, her dresses were taken away from her and they told her she wouldn't need them as she would wear T-shirts and shorts. T hey took her address book with all her phone numbers in it. Luckily she memorised my number. To top it off, they made her cut her hair like a boy.
Wake up, Singapore. What is going on here? This a blatant case of abuse. What about the rights of these poor women who come here purely so their family can eat and their children can go to school?
Wendy Geraldine Koh (Mrs)
(Straits Times 19 Mar)
Why should anyone be surprised if folks like Atobe is representative of Singaporeans? Unfortunately, Singaporeans don't consider these abusive practices are objectionable. They see it as their right as employers.
Why were you so uncomfortable and defensive with my speculative statement ?
For a self-acclaimed PhD holder, you seem to have a vast propensity to make inaccurate and baseless speculation, whereas my unqualified person had been more spot on with my observation and interpretation of the direction of your line of argument that reveal your actual position.
What makes you think that from a population of 4.5 Million Singaporeans - (Citizens and Foreign Permanent Residents like yourselves included) - that there exist a "MAJORITY of Singaporeans" are Maid Abusers ?
If this is the most insulting and derogatory statement that can come from one who finally reveal himself not a Singapore Citizen, but a Resident Expatriate - if we can believe your self-inflating personality.
How do you come to the brilliant conclusion that I am even defending those Maid Abusers, when I am persistently attempting to nail you on your derogatory statement that the "Majority of Singaporeans are Maid Abusers" ?
If this is not a weak attempt to wriggle your foot out of your own mouth, after taking a torturous route to explain your way out of a tight spot that you painted yourself into ?
For your information, the maid in my family sit at the table with the entire family during the main meal of the day - which is Dinner time; and despite given the liberty of the home and weekly time off, she would rather stay home to save money to send home, and follow the family on outings - (which incidentally, will have her also sit at the table when dining at the restaurants).
There are families who voluntarily give a one month bonus for each year of service completed, and payable into their bank account at the end of each year; with extra perks of paid air ticket for the vacaction home after extending the contract on completion of the previous contract term.
On top of the round trip air ticket, MANY Singaporean Families have found it in their hearts to give extra pocket money for the trip home, as well as helping the Maid with the payment of goodies and appliances to be brought home.
From the 147 cases of maid deaths since 1999, out of 150,000 being employed, this count hardly come near to the wild and derogatory statement made by the Resident Fungi, who probably saw green the vast advancement made by this ex-colony. -
x2Originally posted by livspore2006:The current Govt's fundamental principle towards non-skilled foreign workers employed in S'pore is to make the local employer be responsible for them. The other principle is to introduce harsh penalties to prevent these foreign workers from committing too much crime in our society (as in any society, we also blame the foreign workers for high crime rates, etc).
As of now, none of the civil servants in the Manpower Ministry has got a good solution of how to deal with errant or delinquent foreign workers in our country. It is therefore, not unusual for the Govt to introduce the Foreign Worker Bond to hold their employers responsible.
I am not sure if anyone out there knows that if a foreign worker is to be deported back to their home country, it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure that their charges are "escorted" into the non-returnable area of the airport or seaport. If the foreign worker somehow escapes, the bond is confiscated too! If the foreign worker hurts himself or the employer hurts him/her in the process of this "escort", the local laws of "causing hurt" or "unlawful restraint" may be applicable to the employer as seen in the eyes of the police. Do take note that the employer is responsible for all hospitalisation and even morgue and body retrieval charges (if the employee dies).
The odds are heavily stacked against the employer and I hope everyone out there will appreciate it.
Although the plight and working conditions of maids (Indonesian in particular) are indeed of great concern, employers are also facing trouble as well.
We had a maid at home who we gave benefits such a day off per week (or more money if she wants "OT" instead) like oxford mushroom. There was no abuse in any form what so ever, it was all good from day 1 and we all got along well... our maid even talked about considering extending her contract once it ended. However, unlike oxford, it didn't turn out well.
On the day her contract expires, we insisted on checking her belongings and after much resistance found several hundred dollar bills tucked away at the bottom of her luggage. We checked the drawer holding our spare cash and found the few hundred dollars missing.
We managed to force her to admit that she needed the money to give it to a male friend whom she meets during her off day for dont know what.
From that day onwards we resolved to employ maids who are willing to work 24/7. Bear in mind we still treat the maid nicely by bringing her out for family outings once in a while. But we just don't trust her to go out alone. If she is unhappy and wishes to quit prematurely, we are willing to lose the maid levy.
For many of the posters here without maids yet, all I get to say to you is that you can get very easily disillusioned once your trust in them is broken by their actions if you choose to employ one. -
Singapore: Domestic Workers Suffer Grave Abuses
Migrant Women Face Debt Burden and Exploitation
(Singapore, December 7, 2005) – Women migrant domestic workers in Singapore suffer grave abuses including physical and sexual violence, food deprivation, and confinement in the workplace, said Human Rights Watch in a new report released today.
At least 147 migrant domestic workers have died from workplace accidents or suicide since 1999, most by jumping or falling from residential buildings. Migrant domestic workers earn half the wages of Singaporean workers in similar occupations, such as cleaners or gardeners. Unpaid wages is a growing complaint.
“Many domestic workers labor without pay for months to settle debts to employment agencies, work long hours seven days a week, or are confined to their workplace,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “Singapore’s refusal to extend ordinary labor protections to domestic workers is leaving them open to abuse.”
The 124-page report, “Maid to Order: Ending Abuses against Migrant Domestic Workers in Singapore,” is based on more than one hundred in-depth interviews with domestic workers, government officials, and employment agents. It details a range of abuses endured by domestic workers in Singapore and the response of the Singaporean government. ...
Read more of the Human Rights Watch report:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/12/07/singap12125.htm