Maid policies should be changed
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Haha...once again you have shot yourself in the foot spouting nonsense without reading my posts...but so what's new?Originally posted by Atobe:Now you are offering a dubious 2003 research that 10 per cent of maids are not getting their day off.
This 10 per cent will only amount to 15,000 maids out of the 150,000 maids employed.
The newspaper survey in 2003 reported than only a lucky 10% of maids get a day off a week. That means 100%-10%= 90% of maids do not get a day off per week. Have you failed to pass basic arithmetic in kindergarten, completely illiterate or are you just being a moron? -
I REFER to Ms Laura Thornton-Olivry's letter about maids being deprived of food (ST, March 30).
My son recently completed a study on slavery for his schoolwork. He felt that slavery exists in Singapore today for some of the maids.
Certainly there are employers who treat their maids as their 'property'. Some maids are entirely under the domination of their employers. Just read all the stories about maids being abused, denied food or risking their lives hanging clothes to dry.
Why can't we learn to treat each other with respect, regardless of social status? Why can't we protect those who are unable to defend themselves?
Remember that a maid is someone's daughter. She is separated from her loved ones. Many of them have never lived away from home or their country before.
I started to wonder how I would feel if my daughter was in the same situation. Being so far away from her I would feel powerless to help her. My little girl would be at the mercy of complete strangers. All I could do then would be to pray that:
# She does a good job every day to please her employer.
# She gets enough rest every night.
# She does not have to worry about food and drink.
# She gets some time off every week.
# She will be treated by a doctor when she is ill.
# She is not abused physically or mentally.
# Her safety is not at risk.
# She will return a better person.
# Her employer's family will care for her with kindness and compassion.
I would pray that I will get a letter like this from her:
'Mum and Dad, the family that I work for treats me very well. The job is demanding but I don't mind. I want to do my best for them. You don't have to worry about me because I feel safe and I'm happy.'
Let us make sure that every parent of our maids gets a letter like this.
Too Teh Hsin
Straits Times, 3 Apr -
Even one case of maid abuse is one case too many
I FEEL sick every time I read about a case of maid abuse here and I applaud The Straits Times for highlighting these cases and the plight of maids.
I further applaud the courts for the tough stance they take regarding maid abuse cases.
These people have sacrificed so much to come here to earn a small amount of money to help take care of their families back home, yet many of them are treated so badly.
Maids are human beings like the rest of us, yet some employers treat their pets better than they treat their maids.
Sure, the abusers are a small minority of employers but, on the other hand, the cases that go before the courts are likely just the tip of the iceberg - many more abuse cases must be occurring, with maids suffering in silence, not knowing what to do.
In our modern society how can anyone treat someone else inhumanely? Abuse is abuse, whether it is physical, verbal, psychological or not allowing the maid to eat nutritiously.
There can be no excuse for such abuse, yet many of the accused claim that they are 'depressed', as if this gives them the right to be abusive. Not only are some employers abusive, but we have also probably all witnessed children physically or verbally abusing their maid too.
Clearly, some people are not fit to employ a maid and should not be allowed to do so.
While employers have the ability to research into the background of their prospective maid it would appear sensible that some form of checking also be carried out in regard to the employer; to confirm whether the employer and his/her family are fit to employ and take care of a maid in a humane and caring manner.
As well as jail terms and financial penalties, employers convicted of maid abuse should receive psychological counselling and also be banned from ever hiring a maid again.
This may sound tough but employers must realise that hiring a maid entails a great deal of responsibility and if they are not capable of being responsible and humane towards their maid then they should not be allowed the privilege of hiring a maid.
I reiterate that I know that maid abuse here occurs in only a small minority of cases but in today's civilised society even one case is one case too many.
Bruce William Swales
Apr 3 Straits Times -
Put new employers of maids on a one-month probation
YET another case of hell-treatment of a maid. For every maid that has come forward to tell her sob story, how many are living in inhumane conditions in their respective 'cells'?
It is sickening to note that many people in this civilised First World country of ours are treating another human being like dirt.
Little wonder as anybody with $500 to spare each month (the maid gets half of it) can become an employer - a master to be exact. Suddenly, many people can become an emperor or empress, not unlike what they see in those drama serials on TV.
They feel great that somebody is calling them Sir or Madam; and at a snap of the finger, this person will come running to them.
They can say what they want about this lowly being in front of them, as she has no right of reply. The 'emperor' and 'empress' only want to hear 'Yes Sir' or 'Yes Madam'.
Little brats, if any, in the 'palace' will no doubt feel like princes and princesses. Their 'high class' parents confirm their status and condone their actions towards this lesser mortal residing in their house.
The Ministry of Manpower's reply to complaints is as usual, the rules and regulations governing the hiring of maids. How many maids would dare to call and complain against their employer? Those who do must be in extreme distress, perhaps on the verge of death.
I propose MOM consider the following:
1. Interview all potential employers before allowing them to hire a maid.
Among others, they are to declare the jobs for the maid, daily meals and the place of sleep. A visit to the house may be necessary.
2.A probation period of one month, after which both employer and maid are interviewed. Appropriate actions should be taken before things get worse.
3.A review of the current security deposit and insurance schemes.
4. A review of the modus operandi of maid agencies. Making a person work six to nine months without any pay is inhuman. No civilised nation should allow it.
5.A review of the current penalty against employers who inflict physical harm to their maids.
6. Give incentives to employers who treat their maids well - such as reducing the levy.
The above will have no tangible benefits for MOM. In fact a budget has to be set aside. But we need to show the world that besides churning profits, we do have a heart for those who need help.
While we deliberate and pontificate, we cannot deny the fact that there are many helpless souls still suffering in silence.
Chan Wai Piew Daniel
Straits Times Apr 3 -
Given the things you have said in other posts, why should you feel sick about maid abuse?
LetÂ’s try the logic you usually use that you have suddenly abandoned in this thread... let's bring a voice back to this thread that is so loud in others but strangely mute in here:
Please, you are morally bankrupt to be getting hot under the collar here.
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:We have the cash, they have the need. If they don't want to serve in Singapore there are other places. We are not a welfare state, and things like fairness, human rights and the like do not feed us at the end of the day.
Ideologues can molder away in the ivory towers of academic institutions for all I care. For the prosperity and success of the nation, I want domestic workers of the best possible economic value. Write all the books and papers on the rights of domestic workers you want, but for the vast majority of Singaporeans, it is the continued economic viability of this industry that matters. Things have been like this longer than any Mushroom that rant in this forum.
The fact is that domestic workers still come to Singapore to work in numbers and have not been deterred by the so-called-abuse shows that the current system works, and itÂ’s the
Is it really economically pragmatic to give those workers any more quarter then what they are willing to work for now? Why increase their rights and benefits when what really matters
Our pragmatic approach has brought SingaporeÂ’s domestic worker industry from the third world to the first over the past 40 years. It is the myopic, obsessive idealism of living fossils that threaten our continued success against the wishes and interests of the majority of Singaporeans who hire domestic workers who see no need for a raise in the standards.
Yawn...after 40 years of free democratic elections, the working conditions for maids have not made much progress, much less improved. After 40 years of elections, we still have increasing numbers of cases of going for the bottom line when it comes to treating our domestic workers....that's what Singaporeans really think.
Why should one be surprised if the citizens have learned several lessons on how to treat those more vulnerable then you from the powers that are? -
In fact, you stance here is so incongruous with the rest of your pitch in here that you frenzied attempts to take the moral high ground as some activist of the rights of domestic workers is highly amusing, not to mention largely futile.
If you want to appeal to the soul, please prove you have one first. -
Dear Mr SingaporeTyrannosaur
May I ask, what talk you? -
More correctly, your question should be.Originally posted by laogenjudi:Dear Mr SingaporeTyrannosaur
May I ask, what talk you?
Mr. oxford mushroom
May I ask, what talk you?
I but simply put in light the obvious contradiction between his stances in other threads and this one.
To put it simply:
There's no need to listen to OM. -
He's just letting off the hot air that adds to global warming and thins the ozone layer furtherOriginally posted by laogenjudi:Dear Mr SingaporeTyrannosaur
May I ask, what talk you? :
"The dinosaurs were not wiped out by a comet or asteroid impact or some other planetary catastrophe but by a serious flatulence problem, according to research quoted in a Chinese news report..."
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/855813.stm) -
That's a colourful evasion, but I'm afraid it's not going to distract from the main issue at hand.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:He's just letting off the hot air that adds to global warming and thins the ozone layer further :
"The dinosaurs were not wiped out by a comet or asteroid impact or some other planetary catastrophe but by a serious flatulence problem, according to research quoted in a Chinese news report..."
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/855813.stm)
Moving on:
The incongruence between your stance here and in other threads is so obvious, it is a marvel that you lack the sense to consider that what you are even posting is self-contradictory.
It's pretty clear to anybody who has followed your threads- it's either you concede your position here or in your other threads. You can choose to hold both, but then again it would mean that none of your opinions are really worth any consideration in here for the simple reason you can't seem to decide on your convictions at all. -
"The dinosaurs were not wiped out by a comet or asteroid impact or some other planetary catastrophe but by a serious flatulence problem, according to research quoted in a Chinese news report..."
Why do you insist on making yourself look silly in each of your posts? And to make things funnier you can't even mock your opponents properly without making serious blunders that end up reflecting worse upon yourself.
It seems you have demostrated not only your dearth of knowledge of palaeontology, but also apparently latched on attempting to use a fringe theory largely disregarded by the paleontological community as the main trust of your rather unimaginative attempt at mockery.
The factors towards determining what is a good theory for the KT extinction are numerous, and the numerous theories proposed have been judged to be adequate, or inadequate by that yardstick.
The KT event being caused by the biological load of the organisms then has often been proposed as a theory throughout history, but for obvious reasons they have been filed under the “fringe-but-makes-interesting-media” section. It is indeed amusing that you have chosen to drawn upon the fringe as ammunition for your riposte (that has now unfortunately left you with your foot in your mouth).
Given your penchant for grabbing whatever suits your needs, no matter how ridiculus it isÂ… is it no surprise that nobody really takes what you say seriously?
HereÂ’s a tipÂ… do your homework before you attempt to mock your opponents, or else you simply end up mocking yourself. Given you are supposed to have a PhDÂ… it is indeed somewhat incongruous and amusing that you flunk at using even basic science to formulate a mockery of your opponents. -
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by laogenjudi:
Dear Mr SingaporeTyrannosaur
May I ask, what talk you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More correctly, your question should be.
Mr. oxford mushroom
May I ask, what talk you?
I but simply put in light the obvious contradiction between his stances in other threads and this one.
To put it simply:
There's no need to listen to OM.
OH I see. thank you, ST. The different colours obscured me for a moment. Now I know. I hate double-headed snakes too. Anyway I quite enjoy the eloquent exchange of extemporaneous expatiations. Regards -
OH I see. thank you, ST. The different colours obscured me for a moment. Now I know. I hate double-headed snakes too. Anyway I quite enjoy the eloquent exchange of extemporaneous expatiations. Regards
You are very much welcome... in fact it is indeed somewhat amazing that OM even dares to attempt such an approach.
And yes, it's time to ignore the discredited double-headed snake in here.orginally posted by oxford mushroom:
Sorry OM, but looks like the joke's now on you...
He's just letting off the hot air that adds to global warming and thins the ozone layer further : But it is no surprise that your attempt at trying to distract others from seeing the lack of merit in your posts yet again failed and backfired. -
The emphasis of the understanding was entirely yours - with you indicating that "since 10% of domestic maids get a day off per week, TO ME, that means 90% of Singaporean employers are abusing their maids".Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Original posted by Atobe:
Now you are offering a dubious 2003 research that 10 per cent of maids are not getting their day off.
This 10 per cent will only amount to 15,000 maids out of the 150,000 maids employed.
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Haha...once again you have shot yourself in the foot spouting nonsense without reading my posts...but so what's new?
The newspaper survey in 2003 reported than only a lucky 10% of maids get a day off a week. That means 100%-10%= 90% of maids do not get a day off per week. Have you failed to pass basic arithmetic in kindergarten, completely illiterate or are you just being a moron? [/quote]
Haha..... ? Sound like a half-baked laugh without any confidence to your own position.
Not as devilishly clever as you wish you want to be, but it seems that your arithmetic is so flawed that you will even want to turn the table on me, try reading what you had posted in your remarks on 1 April 2007 04.57 P.M. :
[quote]Originally posted by oxford mushroom: on 1 April 2007 04.57 P.M.Atobe will jab at you next...he is so blinkered that he will refuse to accept any figures in his face...but that's just him. A survey done in 2003 showed that only 10% of domestic maids get a day off per week and there is no reason to think that situation has changed. To me, that means 90% of Singaporean employers are abusing their maids. But to Atobe and many Singaporeans, that's not abuse...until it happens to their daughters.
Legislation is unlikely to come about if the majority of Singaporeans think like Atobe, which unfortunately, might well be true. There is certainly no push in the media for the government to amend the legislation to protect foreign domestic workers.
Now is this not the most brilliant arithmetic from an atrophied mind of a fungi ?
You can try to re-explain your position in any contorted manner that you have tried with your maid-friends but there is no possible way that you can rephrase my comments to what you had originally posted.
Are you trying to be the Father of All APRIL FOOLS with this post being posted on 1 April 2007 ?
You are most welcome to take the cake and eat it. -
After four days of quiet, you seem to have regained some vigour - perhaps after getting a recharge from your maid-friends ?
The count still remains as 147 cases PLUS 42 dubious ones that could have been included in the 147; and your two additional posts on 3 April 2007 have not contributed any additional number that will justify your silly position in taking on the entire Singapore Population with you slanderous accusation that - "THE MAJORITY OF SINGAPOREANS ARE MAID ABUSERS".
Try harder and be a little bit more honest so as to redeem your worth as a PhD qualified person, who has shown so much expertise in health care and medicine, but show such atrocious flaw in basic character.
You must have shown yourself to be an expert in the art of hypocrisy, and which explains for your graduating with a PhD in medicine - is it any wonder that you have declared yourself as being sceptical on the value of the Hypocratic Oath taken by Doctors - even as you have already taken the Oath ?
A hypocrite is already despicable, a hypocritical fool can only go deeper into pathetic position - is it any wonder that you have to find friendship with those abused foreign maids ?
You did mention you are a Resident Expatriate ?
So birds of a feather flock together - so do you belong to the crowd at Orchard Tower, or Lucky Plaza, or Wisma Atria, or Woh Hup Complex ?
Perhaps at Joo Chiat, Geylang or maybe those at Changi Point ? -
Given his track record in this forum, it is doubtful OM actually feels any real compassion for the plight of local Domestic Workers, just that it happened to be convenient for him to capitalize on their cause to further his own needs, whatever they may be (which I suspect has something to do with being a self appointedlap/sheepdog of sorts on some misguided mission to rein in the “stray” sheep of Singapore).
He is certainly not fit to may any appeal to the morality of the situation, given the positions he had quite clearly expressed in other posts.
The moment they do not serve his needs, there is little doubt he will callously cast them aside, or perhaps even turn on them.
So the bottom line is really this: Given your obvious dishonesty, regardless of how many posts you make and statistics you may attempt to postÂ… nobody is going to give what you post any serious consideration.