Does this sound familiar reason to take our money?
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“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.”
- Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderberg meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting
In the Singapore context, excuses to take our money that in the end was for buying Shin Corps and paying themselves million dollars salaries.
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The para in red is often the reason for voting the PAP. Sad, but true.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether [b]real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.”
- Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderberg meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting
In the Singapore context, excuses to take our money that in the end was for buying Shin Corps and paying themselves million dollars salaries.
But Shin Corp is a different matter. It is one person desperately tryng to prove herself with Singapore's reserve. It's obvious telcos are the future. Thats why we stubbornly try to buy into regional telcos despite the disgust against us by the countries concerned. -
Agree with the 'red' part..... disagree with the ShinCorp part.
Temasek like all 'Investment Company', care only for 1 thing..... MONEY
At the time of the sale...... ShinCorp Was a good buy. The 'Govt' of thailand agree to the deal..... the PM agree to the deal..... the CEO (also the PM) agree to the deal. As for Thai laws.....everything is OK as long as the Thai Govt saids it is OK.
How the HELL do we know there will be a coup...... All this talk about Temasek should knows better is BullSh*t...... if they can read the future, or anyone else here could...... why the hell we even need to work. Might as well sit at home and buy 4D or TOTO for a living......
Think about this......
You buy a house from me, the ower of the house. Pay full amount, take over the house. My LONG LOST BROTHER suddenly turn out with some 100 years old Will from a long dead grandfather. Saying the house is to be his..... tell his 'friends' to force you out...... Is it fair to you
How the hell could you know about my LONG LOST BROTHER or the Will
At the time of the Sale, everything is within the Law...... if not, how come the 'New' Thai Govt still couldn't charge Temasek with something...... if they could prove all along that the 'deal' has broken some Thai law, they could have claim back ShinCorp long ago....... why all those threat The Thai Govt knew that they couldn't prove anything...... so, make threat to force Temasek to sell back at cheaper price....... I don't care when Temasek Invested in ShinCorp was right or wrong..... as long as we (the people & the Govt) get back OUR $$$$. No way I could just say this is a lesson learned...... -
Why do people persist on looking only at these small stuff and criticizing them?
Look at the big picture! If 100 not-so-good small stuff = 1 excellent large stuff, which do you want?
Are you expecting 100 excellent stuff = 1 excellent stuff? Doesn't work that way wor!
We may not be good in a few areas but hey, we are excellent in many others!
You want perfection, you propose your ideas lah instead of oni kpkb all the time!!! KNN
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Originally posted by hloc:
Shin Corp was a good buy? They didn't do a proper investment analysis! How would you feel if tomorrow the Thai government comes over to buy Singtel? The Singapore government might think it's ok at this moment in time, but how does the general population feel about it. Goes to show that this current government is clueless about investment decisions.
Agree with the 'red' part..... disagree with the ShinCorp part.
Temasek like all 'Investment Company', care only for [b]1 thing..... MONEY
At the time of the sale...... ShinCorp Was a good buy. The 'Govt' of thailand agree to the deal..... the PM agree to the deal..... the CEO (also the PM) agree to the deal. As for Thai laws.....everything is OK as long as the Thai Govt saids it is OK.
How the HELL do we know there will be a coup...... All this talk about Temasek should knows better is BullSh*t...... if they can read the future, or anyone else here could...... why the hell we even need to work. Might as well sit at home and buy 4D or TOTO for a living......
Think about this......
You buy a house from me, the ower of the house. Pay full amount, take over the house. My LONG LOST BROTHER suddenly turn out with some 100 years old Will from a long dead grandfather. Saying the house is to be his..... tell his 'friends' to force you out...... Is it fair to you How the hell could you know about my LONG LOST BROTHER or the Will
At the time of the Sale, everything is within the Law...... if not, how come the 'New' Thai Govt still couldn't charge Temasek with something...... if they could prove all along that the 'deal' has broken some Thai law, they could have claim back ShinCorp long ago....... why all those threat The Thai Govt knew that they couldn't prove anything...... so, make threat to force Temasek to sell back at cheaper price....... I don't care when Temasek Invested in ShinCorp was right or wrong..... as long as we (the people & the Govt) get back OUR $$$$. No way I could just say this is a lesson learned......[/b]
The investment behaviour stems from the highly compliant Singaporeans. They think that they can just waltz into someone's home and pay for that property without considering the other family members opinion. This kind of behaviour comes from ruling Singaporeans, nobody in Singapore would dare stand up to them, but in Thailand, it's a different story. They don't read the ground in Singapore, likewise they didn't read the ground in Thailand too.
We definitely will be getting alot less than what we paid for it. We won't get back our invested capital. But I don't have a doubt that the media will report that either we made a gain or we breakeven from the sale. -
Originally posted by hloc:
Unfortunately, Temasek took over Shin Corp and broke the Thai Law that forbid 100 per cent foreign ownership of Thai Company.
Agree with the 'red' part..... disagree with the ShinCorp part.
Temasek like all 'Investment Company', care only for [b]1 thing..... MONEY
At the time of the sale...... ShinCorp Was a good buy. The 'Govt' of thailand agree to the deal..... the PM agree to the deal..... the CEO (also the PM) agree to the deal. As for Thai laws.....everything is OK as long as the Thai Govt saids it is OK.
How the HELL do we know there will be a coup...... All this talk about Temasek should knows better is BullSh*t...... if they can read the future, or anyone else here could...... why the hell we even need to work. Might as well sit at home and buy 4D or TOTO for a living...... [/b]
Temasek is a State Owned Company belonging to a country and a government with a strong reputation of upholding the Law.
Why did Temasek break Thai Law by arranging 100 per cent ownership through proxies - each paid with Singapore Money to buy small shares and hold it for Temasek ?
The Citizens of Thailand knew about this only at a later stage and had the political freedom to raise hell at Thaksin for selling away the Thai National Pride that is placed on the Satellite, which broadcast to the region, and given special broadcasting bandwidth for the Thais.
The Singapore Citizen also found out about the proxy arrangements at a late stage after the Shin Corp deal broke open but has the Singapore Citizen any political liberties or rights to question the government in any way - even without protests ?
While the Thai newspapers are at total liberty to investigate and inform the Thai Citizens, the newspapers in Singapore are controlled by the Government and feed Singaporeans with information calculated to minimise the gravity of the situation.
It was the continued press release from the Thai newspapers that forced the Singapore Newspapers to carry more stories that would otherwise have been left in the dark secret political chambers of the Ruling Party, Temasek and GIC.
A Will is a legal document, and its binding effect depends on how it is prepared, documented and filed for future reference.
Think about this......
You buy a house from me, the ower of the house. Pay full amount, take over the house. My [b]LONG LOST BROTHER suddenly turn out with some 100 years old Will from a long dead grandfather. Saying the house is to be his..... tell his 'friends' to force you out...... Is it fair to you How the hell could you know about my LONG LOST BROTHER or the Will [/b]
If the LONG LOST BROTHER can produce the "lost Will" that is legally binding, he probably can sue you - the owner of the house - for misrepresenting yourself and the Family, as you have no legal title to the house.
This matter can go to Courts for settlement, and even if the buyer of the house is absolved of any wrong doing, the Court may decide for a total refund to the buyer - (with or without interests); or You (the Seller of the house) maybe forced to part with the sales receipts paid to you, either partially or in full - subject to the condition of the Will.
In any case, if you are in doubt of your title to the house left by your grandfather, you should have performed your own due diligence by engaging legal help to check the status.
Rightfully the Buyer will also need to engage legal help to ensure that all matters relating and affect final ownership are cleared.
Unfortunately for you and everyone else, the Law believes that 'ignorance is not a valid excuse'.
There are three issues at stake in this Shin Corp transaction.
At the time of the Sale, everything is within the Law...... if not, how come the 'New' Thai Govt still couldn't charge Temasek with something...... if they could prove all along that the 'deal' has broken some Thai law, they could have claim back ShinCorp long ago....... why all those threat The Thai Govt knew that they couldn't prove anything...... so, make threat to force Temasek to sell back at cheaper price....... I don't care when Temasek Invested in ShinCorp was right or wrong..... as long as we (the people & the Govt) get back [b]OUR $$$$. No way I could just say this is a lesson learned......[/b]
Firstly, Shin Corp is a Thai Public Listed Company and subject to Thai laws.
Secondly, the gem of the Temasek-Shin Corp deal is that it owns a satellite - which is a Thai Public Property, since Shin Corp itself is a Public Listed Company.
Thirdly, being a Public Listed Company, it seems odd that the bulk of the sales revenue did not benefit the Thai Public Shareholders of this Public Listed Company; as the entire sales proceeds of S$3 Billion benefit the Thaksin family - without even a cent paid for tax from this sale.
Why did Temasek not exercise due diligence in investigating the entire upstream and downstream events that is being setup for this transaction to succeed in the manner that they had wished for ?
Is this a question developed with the benefit of hindsight, or should this not be the instruction from an experienced CEO with the foresight to be more careful in the spending S$3 BILLION of Public Money to purchase a foreign company under foreign laws, and to protect the interests of this Government and the Singapore Reserves - (besides protecting the good name of the First Family ) ?
Can we get back the full sum of S$3 BILLION that is already paid to Thaksin - when he and his wife are already subject to tax evasion charges for this S$3Billion transaction, and any fines can be punitive to the extent of the full sum of the transgression ?
Even if Temasek is to divest itself from Shin Corp, can the Shin Corp shares be worth the S$3 BILLION paid ?
Shin Corp is now a skeleton of its former self - with the subsidiary company iTV already made bankrupt and dissolved for failing to pay a fine of S$2.8 BILLION on some other previous legal transgressions; while the Thais are boycotting the other more profitable subsidiary - Advance Info System (AIS) - which is the largest mobile telephone operator in Thailand.
The silence from the Singapore newspapers is deafening to the extent that it is already preparing Singaporeans for the final blow to come.
The recent parliamentary debate on the 2 per cent increase in GST was furious and fast amongst the ONE PARTY dominated Parliament, and reported with so much earnest by the government controlled press, yet nothing was mentioned about the poor Temasek's Corporate behaviour overseas.
More importantly, nothing was emphasised to the final parting word in Parliament from PM LHL - that the Government intend to change the law that will allow the Government to access past reserves without the need to obtain parliamentary approvals.
Good-bye to the S$3 Billion paid for Shin Corp, and good-bye to the Elected Presidency who will be paid more to turn a blind eye from fulfilling its role as the Keeper of the Second Key to the National Reserves - as the government has the secret combination of MMPM to access the Reserves. -
If the "shin corps" that the Lee's daughter in law buys come from selling some of the Lee family's Orchard Road blocks of apartments (that in my opinion was allowed to rise exorbitantly due to personal conflict of interest), would anybody care that they lost their family fortune?
With the Orchard road property prices going up like that, the majority suffers for the sake of the few property owners. Property Prices Rise at our expense
Do you think that if it were Samsung that bought OPTUS and wrote off all those billions in OPTUS, anybody in Korea would care?
The Samsung founders worked hard for their money and so they can waste it all on "OPTUSes" and "Shin Corps" for anybody to care. Did the Lees make their money from hard work or transferring it from Singaporeans into their pockets through peanut salaries.
The government could do many things to prevent orchard road property prices to rise and stop selling HDB prices at exorbitant prices so private housing prices would not go even higher. Why did they allow orchard road prices to go sky high? Is it because many elites own property on orchard road?
The Temasek "shin corps" losses are different from Samsung losses. The money came from selling HDB 5 rooms prices at $500K instead of $50K
The money came from selling COE using auction (at one time $100K) when they can do balloting. "have kill in error, no letting off" (KIE-NLO) part 2 - Policy Decisions COE
The money could have gone into subsidising health costs for Singaporeans since nobody asked to fall sick and the money was taken from Singaporeans anyway.
The money could have been spent for the Singapore economy and translated into higher salaries for the over worked Singaporeans.
If the managers of Temasek can tell us that it was an honest mistake and they did not benefit from it, that would not even be enough. As it is, they are paid millions for their "honest" mistakes.
You want the BIG picture. Give the money Temasek has taken from Singaporeans back to Singaporeans and lower the GST back to 2%.
Give the Temasek money back to Singaporeans and lower the HDB 5 room prices back to $50K Public Housing - whose land is it anyway?
Give the Temasek money back to the people and lower the health costs.
At the very least, sack the incompetent idiots running the place and try to take back the (by now could be hundreds of) millions they took in peanut salaries, like NKF took back from Mr TT Durai. -
DONT BE A LOSER
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Good adviceOriginally posted by Jackson Goh:DONT BE A LOSER
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Mahathir deliberately blocked Singapore from buying into their telco. This should tell our gurus something. Telcos are sensitive pruchases for foreign government.
They could not forsee problems with the Thai deal? Ah!
They saw or at least know of the probabilities, but decided to take the risk anyway.
The Singapore government only understands technicalities, legality, and rules and regulations, but not sentiments.
As long as they are right, they don't care how people feel.
Thais included. -
Originally posted by mancha:
They should just stop the 'play play' 'wayang wayang' and give us back the money.
Mahathir deliberately blocked Singapore from buying into their telco. This should tell our gurus something. Telcos are sensitive pruchases for foreign government.
They could not forsee problems with the Thai deal? Ah!
They saw or at least know of the probabilities, but decided to take the risk anyway.
The Singapore government only understands technicalities, legality, and rules and regulations, but not sentiments.
[b]As long as they are right, they don't care how people feel.
Thais included.[/b] -
A Will is a legal document, and its binding effect depends on how it is prepared, documented and filed for future reference.
Yes..... ShinCorp problem did go to Thai Court...... So whats the judgment
If the LONG LOST BROTHER can produce the "lost Will" that is legally binding, he probably can sue you - the owner of the house - for misrepresenting yourself and the Family, as you have no legal title to the house.
This matter can go to Courts for settlement, and even if the buyer of the house is absolved of any wrong doing, the Court may decide for a total refund to the buyer - (with or without interests); or You (the Seller of the house) maybe forced to part with the sales receipts paid to you, either partially or in full - subject to the condition of the Will.
In any case, if you are in doubt of your title to the house left by your grandfather, you should have performed your own due diligence by engaging legal help to check the status.
Rightfully the Buyer will also need to engage legal help to ensure that all matters relating and affect final ownership are cleared.
Unfortunately for you and everyone else, the Law believes that 'ignorance is not a valid excuse'. I believe there wasn't any....... because till today, the Thai Govt still haven't proven anything...... They just make a threat here & there... So, just like my long lost brother's friends telling u to go.
ShinCorp belongs to Thaksin..... Temasek buy from Thaksin.... Thaksin as PM saids all 'paperworks' inorder...... some people say 'paperwork' might not be Ok..... but since Thaksin is PM..... he say Ok means Ok lor..... as long as he is the PM anyway....... So, what when wrong Thing when wrong when people with GUNS decided that with bullets, they don't have to care about any paperwork..... can make 'law' for their own use. You think ShinCorp is the only company having problem with the 'Thai Own' system..... why do you think the Thai Govt give all company 1-2 years to make sure that they are 'Thai Own' Because those company are under control by US, Japan, European companys...... thai give chance. ShinCorp belongs to small S'pore..... so, no need give face lah..... I've got GUNS, why need to give reasons..... Don't have reasons anyway......
Again..... at that point in time..... ALL paperwork was inorder. Even other investment firm from around the world agrees that the paperwork is ok. Don't tell me in your heart you don't believe that the Thai Govt now is trying to blame us for their problem. Whatever paperwork Temasek do is useless, if the "law" change every week.... along with the moods of the Thai Govt..... -
Originally posted by hloc:
I think you are a little delusional. You think that Shin Corp is the "only" investment in Thailand? Since as you say, they want to take back by the barrel of the gun, why stop at Shin Corp? Why not take back all Temasek investments in Thailand?
[b]
Shin Corp is the only reported or widely known investment of Temasek in Thailand.
your are really funny... you do not seem to know and realise that you live in a closed society where real information is mostly hidden. -
another thing, P*P took Malaysia to the international courts... why don't they dare to do that to Thailand? Why talk about divesting Shin Corp?
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Originally posted by hloc:
So far, it seems that the matter at the Courts is not concluded yet, and on-going procedures seem to have been halted, as some moves are being made behind the scenes.
A Will is a legal document, and its binding effect depends on how it is prepared, documented and filed for future reference.
If the LONG LOST BROTHER can produce the "lost Will" that is legally binding, he probably can sue you - the owner of the house - for misrepresenting yourself and the Family, as you have no legal title to the house.
This matter can go to Courts for settlement, and even if the buyer of the house is absolved of any wrong doing, the Court may decide for a total refund to the buyer - (with or without interests); or You (the Seller of the house) maybe forced to part with the sales receipts paid to you, either partially or in full - subject to the condition of the Will.
In any case, if you are in doubt of your title to the house left by your grandfather, you should have performed your own due diligence by engaging legal help to check the status.
Rightfully the Buyer will also need to engage legal help to ensure that all matters relating and affect final ownership are cleared.
Unfortunately for you and everyone else, the Law believes that 'ignorance is not a valid excuse'.
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Yes..... ShinCorp problem did go to Thai Court...... So whats the judgment I believe there wasn't any....... because till today, the Thai Govt still haven't proven anything...... They just make a threat here & there... So, just like my long lost brother's friends telling u to go.
Considering the long established sentiments that Thailand has with Singapore,and while there maybe some discontented elements within the Thai establishments, there are also those parties who believe in good ties with Singapore, and are probably assisting to resolve a very complex and delicate situation.
Leave it to the Thai diplomacy with the famous Thai smile.
Are the paperwork in order ?
ShinCorp belongs to Thaksin..... Temasek buy from Thaksin.... Thaksin as PM saids all 'paperworks' inorder...... some people say 'paperwork' might not be Ok..... but since Thaksin is PM..... he say Ok means Ok lor..... as long as he is the PM anyway....... So, what when wrong Thing when wrong when people with GUNS decided that with bullets, they don't have to care about any paperwork..... can make 'law' for their own use. You think ShinCorp is the only company having problem with the 'Thai Own' system..... why do you think the Thai Govt give all company 1-2 years to make sure that they are 'Thai Own' Because those company are under control by US, Japan, European companys...... thai give chance. ShinCorp belongs to small S'pore..... so, no need give face lah..... I've got GUNS, why need to give reasons..... Don't have reasons anyway......
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Again..... at that point in time..... ALL paperwork was inorder. Even other investment firm from around the world agrees that the paperwork is ok. Don't tell me in your heart you don't believe that the Thai Govt now is trying to blame us for their problem. Whatever paperwork Temasek do is useless, if the "law" change every week.... along with the moods of the Thai Govt.....
It was seen to be in order - until it was slowly discovered that Temasek was actually owning 100 per cent of Shin Corp by appointing proxies to hold the remaining shares on behalf of Temasek.
The law about NO 100 per cent foreign ownership of Thai Public Company was a law that has been in existence for at least the past ten years - it was not implemented to target Temasek only.
It was through Temasek's 100 per cent purchase that the entire shadow system burst open to reveal more of such illegal 100 per cent by some other major foreign companies in Thailand.
This is causing a major shakedown of the Thai business environment, as every Thai politician is now attempting to salvage the situation to inject confidence in their system - in the face of years of corruption and mis-management that are known but no one has taken any action UNTIL the present Thai coup to clean up the politics.
The Temasek-Shin Corp saga is still ongoing, and the last chapter has yet to be written, while the present inks have yet to dry. -
The Temasek-Shin Corp saga is still ongoing, and the last chapter has yet to be written, while the present inks have yet to dry.
And yet you have already come to the conclusion the Temasak ''MUST'' be the villain..... As long as the deal is with Temasek.... or PAP.... nothing could be 'Right'...... please be more open minded...... -
Sorry.... i think you are the one being delusional..... Have I not already said that other company in thailand is own by US, Japan, European companyOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:I think you are a little delusional. You think that Shin Corp is the "only" investment in Thailand? Since as you say, they want to take back by the barrel of the gun, why stop at Shin Corp? Why not take back all Temasek investments in Thailand?. There is also a report that a certain (can't recalled the name... its European) company is also worry that its investment will follow the way of ShinCorp. It is a open secret that alot of foregin company uses a loophole in Thai Law to get 100 per cent ownership through proxies..... don't tell me you think ALL business people in the world follows the 'law' to the exact Do you know how many ppl you have to pay off inorder to do business in China or India.... even Indoneasia..... Shin Corp is the only reported or widely known investment of Temasek in Thailand.
No..... i believe OPTUS is also widely known..... admit not from Thailand. And quite a few ports around the world.....your are really funny... you do not seem to know and realise that you live in a closed society where real information is mostly hidden.
I believe i find you equally funny that you see 'Shadow' even in the light of day...... Lets face it..... it is not that I don't believe that real information is mostly hidden..... but is more likely that no matter what S'pore Govt or Temasek do, you and many like you will always find something to complaint about...... If there is no coup and ShinCorp make $$$$.... would you now Praise Temasek Or would you more than likely find another fault to point out I believed, and I admit that I may be wrong, that NOTHING, the S'pore Govt or Temasek can do that will ever please you. You have sooo much 'dislike' for them that you are just waiting for them to fail some how...... even when others are being unfair to us..... -
Hey if you were the one bring home the million will you still make such a remark?? It shows that you just simply jealous about them...
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Originally posted by hloc:
Yes I would find another fault to point out because I will always be able to find another fault to point out.
Or would you more than likely find another fault to point out I believed, and [b]I admit that I may be wrong, that NOTHING, the S'pore Govt or Temasek can do that will ever please you. You have sooo much 'dislike' for them that you are just waiting for them to fail some how...... even when others are being unfair to us.....[/b]
Unlike you I am not mesmerised and think that they are gods... I know that they will be making mistakes after mistakes. They are only human.
That is why I think that it is better that they give the money back to the people, the money that they took from the people. They should not take the money from the people then invests in "Shin Corps" and "Optus" or whatever so that they can pay themselves million dollars salaries "managing" these fiascoes. -
this type of situation wouldn't happen at all
if Temasek holding is a prviate company, and *cough* *cough* ho ching is not the wife of the PM
oh well
what to do -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Yes..... you could find fault..... because you intend to find fault. Nothing is correct because you won't stop until you find some fault...... and if no fault is found, everything must be hidden....... X-file, trust no one, especial with ppl who don't agree with you.....
[b]Yes I would find another fault to point out because I will always be able to find another fault to point out.
Unlike you I am not mesmerised and think that they are gods... I know that they will be making mistakes after mistakes. They are only human.
That is why I think that it is better that they give the money back to the people, the money that they took from the people. They should not take the money from the people then invests in "Shin Corps" and "Optus" or whatever so that they can pay themselves million dollars salaries "managing" these fiascoes.
Then you would already have understand why ShinCorp deal turn out to be a problem now...... all i'm saying is at the point in time, it is a good investment. And like you said, they are HUMAN..... and mistake or miscalculation does occur...... And no, i never believed that 'they' are GODS.... but unlike you, I don't believed that they are the DEVIL either......
Yes.... always good that if the $$$ come back to the ppl..... So, if they pass millions back to you, will you be 'Happy'. Then it seems that all your anger is over the fact that the $$$ is not going to you...... So as long as the 'Bank' pay you interst for your 'Money'..... everything is OK..... as long as the interst is 'not enough'..... you no happy. May I ask how you intend 'our ppl money' to be spent....... free housing, free healthcare, free transport, free food, free free free....... May i ask how long will it lasted The Money is invested to get more Money later..... sounds BS to me also, but that is the way things work. Ask any bank or investment ppl. Just like you will buy shares or put $$$ into a bank for Interst. And like everything else, stocks could fall and Banks could close down....... -
and they are paid all those millions to have "hindsight"? even the blind man has hindsight. if they do not have foresight, they should do the honorable thing and step down.Originally posted by hloc:Then you would already have understand why ShinCorp deal turn out to be a problem now...... all i'm saying is at the point in time, it is a good investment.
Oh, take Singaporeans' money, no need to ask anybody? Just take and increase their pay. When it comes to giving back the people's own money it suddenly becomes so difficult? There must be consultations? mindless.Originally posted by hloc:Yes.... always good that if the $$$ come back to the ppl..... So, if they pass millions back to you, will you be 'Happy'. Then it seems that all your anger is over the fact that the $$$ is not going to you...... So as long as the 'Bank' pay you interst for your 'Money'..... everything is OK..... as long as the interst is 'not enough'..... you no happy. May I ask how you intend 'our ppl money' to be spent....... free housing, free healthcare, free transport, free food, free free free....... May i ask how long will it lasted The Money is invested to get more Money later..... sounds BS to me also, but that is the way things work. Ask any bank or investment ppl. Just like you will buy shares or put $$$ into a bank for Interst. And like everything else, stocks could fall and Banks could close down....... -
and they are paid all those millions to have "hindsight"? even the blind man has hindsight. if they do not have foresight, they should do the honorable thing and step down.
Ok..... so your point is that being paid 'millions', they can't make mistake.... must be all knowing..... then aren't you the one who thinks that they are GODS.......
Or do you mean that being highly paid, a person can't make mistake..... but being poorly paid, a person could make unlimited mistake I am paid below $1800 a month..... not even middle income. So how many mistake in your way of thinking can i make 1-2 a mth 3-4 a mth or what....... if a person earn below 1K...... can he make all the mistake he wants without being blamed
Even MS founder Bill Gates makes mistake..... and he is the riches man in the world..... so in your way of thinking, he must be the most condamn man in the world......
Any mistake I made could cost the death of 1800 person..... do you think my boss, the police will care if I'm poorly paid Oh, take Singaporeans' money, no need to ask anybody? Just take and increase their pay. When it comes to giving back the people's own money it suddenly becomes so difficult? There must be consultations? mindless.
There is 4 million plus person living in S'pore...... you think how to 'ask' all Am I happy that they are paid sooo much..... of course not. So, how much is not too much ??? Let me guess...... mmmm.... best would be NOTHING, ZERO..... pay me some more.... Just like your boss hope not to pay you and yet make you work..... same like you expect them to work without pay ........ So, the truth is all about the money not in your control. Today i want to get a pay increase..... lets VOTE..... tomorr i want to buy a company..... lets VOTE....... even the USA doesn't Vote & Vote all the time..... and if consultations of the majority of people give the wrong result, then how.... each one blame each other.....
Between two promises....
a) Free housing, Healthcare, super low taxes & no GST.
b) Same as now..... careful spending, limited welfare.
Without thinking, the majority will chose a)..... who wants b) Does this means that majority is always correct No Govt in this world could afford a) forever Consultations of the people is good...... but can you always... ALWAYS gets an answer...... what happen if 40% chose a) and 40% chose b) and the rest don't even care...... Then we just Vote and Vote and Vote till everyone happy.... this my friend.... is MINDLESSNESS -
When did I say they can't make mistakes? I said that they will make mistakes... so they should return Singaporeans their hard earned money and not think too highly of themselves just because they have fawning groupies like yourself.Originally posted by hloc:Ok..... so your point is that being paid 'millions', they can't make mistake.... must be all knowing..... then aren't you the one who thinks that they are GODS.......
Don't bother to ask anyone, just give people back their hard earned money and stop taking it to invest in "Shin Corps" and pay themselves millions.Originally posted by hloc:There is 4 million plus person living in S'pore...... you think how to 'ask' all Question Question Am I happy that they are paid sooo much..... of course not. So, how much is not too much ??? Let me guess...... mmmm.... best would be NOTHING, ZERO..... pay me some more.... Just like your boss hope not to pay you and yet make you work..... same like you expect them to work without pay ........ So, the truth is all about the money not in your control. Today i want to get a pay increase..... lets VOTE..... tomorr i want to buy a company..... lets VOTE....... even the USA doesn't Vote & Vote all the time..... and if consultations of the majority of people give the wrong result, then how.... each one blame each other..... Question Question -
Don't bother to ask anyone, just give people back their hard earned money and stop taking it to invest in "Shin Corps" and pay themselves millions
So.... how much $$$ do you 'think' they 'own' you What are you going to do if they don't give you back..... cry, protest, set fire to yourself Or like me and most people..... just accept and carry on with my life....... you can accept or refuse to accept that life is unfair and not everything goes as one expected....... but the world DON'T CARE........When did I say they can't make mistakes? I said that they will make mistakes... so they should return Singaporeans their hard earned money and not think too highly of themselves just because they have fawning groupies like yourself.
I'm sorry, but I don't care one way or the other if you consider me a PAP lover or groupies...... That does not change the fact that you and I will not get 'our' money back...... And how many times have you 'paid' for your mistake in life... We are not japanese...... resigning is just a way of pushing the responsibility away..... I made a mistake, i quit. Another mistake, i quit again.... again, how many times have you 'quit' because you made a mistake Or are you ''Holier Than Thou'', and can't make mistake Look into a mirror..... are you perfect