New announcement for even higher Minsiters' pay...
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Well after the fact, they ARE SAYING that they are all very prone to become corrupted if they don't constantly receive a big fat pay raise ever so regularly.Originally posted by BillyBong:Defence Minister Teo's comment implies 2 very worrying mindsets:
#1: that if we pay our ministers any less, they will simply become corrupt and the system collapses. Is there any logic in his reasoning?
If a minister was paid, say a 6-figure sum annually, in comparison to equivalent ministers in developed countries like New Zealand, Norway and Denmark, it will already cover his cost of living and that of his family considerably, in addition to the almost unlimited perks stemming from lifetime pension, free membership to various associations and clubs, medical expenses...these are all taken care off which are totally transparent to the average Singaporeans; to say nothing of a 1.2 million salary they are already receiving, which will surely rank within the upper echelons of the private sector.
#2: that a 'reasonably good pay' is needed to attract talent.
While this is a fair statement on its own, it becomes rather absurb when it is linked to a proposed wage package of 2.2 million per minister, not including govt-releated perks of the highest order.
They are already being paid 1.2 million. Is that not enough to attract elite talent? If it isn't, then what is?
How much is too much?
Such a mindset adopted by the ministers will only influence our locals to shortsightedly link pay directly to workscope, each time asking for more. It's like Oliver (the orphan child) returning for more food, only this time he brings a bigger bowl. This type of approach is surely worrying in the long run, with Singaporeans swapping their passion for extravagent pay.
This implies that those who have the best talent and the right passion are not doing what they do best. By this, we can assume that the next crop of ministers won't join the civil service because they are driven by a desire to serve their country.
Such a notion has already been forsaken...for money.
This just simply mean our gov are made up of those sort of people, and that the pledges they made and swore into in serving the public, holds no water.
Isn't this it? It sure does sound that way...
Sad.. we are being led by corruptible leaders...
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New Zealand has 4 million people. SÂ’pore has 4.4 million people. Same-same.
NZÂ’s GDP/capita = S$40,000. SÂ’poreÂ’s GDP/capita = S$45,000. Same-same.
NZÂ’s prime minsterÂ’s pay = S$332,000/year (see http://www.knowledge-basket.co.nz/regs/regs/text/2003/2003305.txt). NZÂ’s ministersÂ’ salaries = S$240,000 to S$180,000/year.
SÂ’poreÂ’s ministers pay = S$1,200,000/year (but they say they are worth up to S$2,200,000/year).
According to http://www.finfacts.com/corruption.htm, NZ is ranked one of the 3 least corrupt countries in the world, and SÂ’pore is ranked 5th (i.e. NZ is perceived to be less corrupt than SÂ’pore).
SÂ’poreÂ’s PM Lee and other ministers have used the argument that they need to be paid closer to S$2,200,000 per year so as to keep corruption at bay.
With NZÂ’s ministers earning 7-10 times less than SÂ’poreÂ’s ministers, and being able to keep NZ the least corrupt country in the world, I wonder how come NZÂ’s ministers can keep such a clean govt for so much less money? Conversely, why do our SÂ’poreÂ’s ministers need so much more pay to stem corruption, when a clean govt like NZ could be had for much lower salaries?
In the interest of getting foreign talent for S’pore, I propose we hire the entire NZ cabinet to replace the S’pore one. All things considered, we can pay the NZ cabinet ‘peanuts’, and they’ll still ensure that S’pore remains wealthy and corruption-free.
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If LHL insisting to have thier pay match with private sectors, down with him. Let him step down now! We don't need such people to be prime minister and finiancial minister for Singapore.
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Ain't nobody's tokin about it is not because we are "jaded" but kpkb here ain't gonna change nuhthin' baby.......
The only time when revisiting this issue will be relevant is when the next elections come round. Until then, this is a topic that renders everyone raising it sick......
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that article.. it's like an approach used by a lot of people who sew their own eyes shut?
repeat a mantra long enough until people start to believe you?
reminds me of my senior management's pushing for "innovation" by forcing us to "be innovative"Originally posted by BillyBong:I think the time has come for a higher level of written protest...
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can I bring this information to you guys' attention before we get too stuck in the debate on the pay-rise of ministers?
We are only focusing on the pay-increase they are trying to push thru (1.2m to 2.2m). This does NOT include bonuses
We are NOT LOOKING at the bonuses. Read somewhere that their bonus is 6 months' MINIMUM, regardless of performance.
THEREFORE, raising their pay to 2.2m is NOT JUST a 1m difference. If you include their bonuses (which is paid based on their monthly salary), its MUCH MORE. -
nobody is forcing him to stay right? dishonorable.Originally posted by (human):If LHL insisting to have thier pay match with private sectors, down with him. Let him step down now! We don't need such people to be prime minister and finiancial minister for Singapore. -
Its back to school:
Squealer: "Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organization of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples." Surely, comrades, surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?
Remember Boxer dying and instead of sending him to a decent burial the pigs sold him to a butcher for more $ from his carcass? Imagine the butcher's shop was named HOTA.
Hopefully they never read 1984. -
Riches are never affected by GST because they have pay rise and more than enough to cover up whatever cost increased. The poor is different the pay rise is not even enough to cover the cost of living. They will also cut pay first if something happen and even get fired. They can get foreign worker to replaced you and even cheaper.
When compared GST with other countries, they will said other is higher than Singapore. But when talk about their own salaries, they never said their is the highest. I don't think they even worth that much. Durai saga is coming back.
And keep on saying high pay prevent corruption, even million dollar salary per year is not enough for these ministers, so greedy. Such a pay is enough to let them pay for few cars, few houses and many other things without credit, installment PER YEAR. And have more than million to save for their retirement. That why our CPF is never enough. A lot of the poor is suffering while they enjoy life.
Since they always say other offer higher pay for them in private sector, why don't they just give up their post??? The answer is easy, private sector job are unstable, you may be replace, pay cut, fire due to poor performance. Etc when MP George Yeo almost lose the GRC to opposition, he scared like hell. Because such a stable job with high pay will be gone and he will work like hell in private sector and can't get high pay like it used to be. If someone question how can it be a stable job, think about MP Khaw who failed to keep check on Durai who run NKF. His poor performance did not result for him being fired. Instead, he just apologise and resolve this issue. He can just say outside offer him higher pay and give up the post.
When helping other countries, they give money so easy, but to our own poor Singaporeans, so many barriers and restriction, and take so long to process -
Are u all sure we can kick PAP off in the next few elections???
Local Singaporeans are emigrating in an unprecedent rate while foreign 'talents' are entering in a rapid rate. Let say Singapore population increases to 6.5 millions which is wat the government wanted, how many % of the population is still locally bred and raised Singaporeans?
The foreign born 'Singaporeans' number will be even more than local born Singaporeans. omg. And most likely they will support the PAP for letting them in.
If all local bred Singaporean voted for opposition parties, the PAP will still win the elections.
On a hindsight, maybe in a few years time, we be talking like a Chinaman instead of Singlish lor... -
This is precisely what I was saying from since last year...Originally posted by Spartans:Are u all sure we can kick PAP off in the next few elections???
Local Singaporeans are emigrating in an unprecedent rate while foreign 'talents' are entering in a rapid rate. Let say Singapore population increases to 6.5 millions which is wat the government wanted, how many % of the population is still locally bred and raised Singaporeans?
The foreign born 'Singaporeans' number will be even more than local born Singaporeans. omg. And most likely they will support the PAP for letting them in.
If all local bred Singaporean voted for opposition parties, the PAP will still win the elections.
On a hindsight, maybe in a few years time, we be talking like a Chinaman instead of Singlish lor...
They are IMPORTING voters....knowing full well the numbers of locals migrating for obvious reasons...
But over time, you can be sure the foreigners here will also be able to see what kind of gov we have...
All isn't lost actually... -
PM keeps comparing the ministers' pay with top salaries in private sector.Of course he won't feel contented.I would like to tell the PM: Please don't compare!Just ask yourself whether your pay good enuf for u.
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More justfication to inflate an already exhorbitant minister's pay:
PDS dispels myths on ministers, civil servants pay
It responds to public's misperceptions of civil service salaries, perks and pensions
Apr 2, 2007
AsiaOne
The salaries of Singapore's ministers and top civil servants have fallen to 55 per cent of the benchmark compared to private sector, and they should be earning $2.2 million, according to the Public Service Division.
Their current salary of $1.2 million is an all-inclusive package covering bonues, and one-third of this package is currently variable.
The PSD disclosed these in response to readers' letters to The Straits Times and online comments on the pay, perks and pensions of ministers and top civil servants, after Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said at the annual Administrative Service dinner on March 22, that public service salaries had fallen behind the public sector.
Details of salary changes across the civil service will be announced in Parliament on April 9.
The salaries of ministers and top civil servants are pegged at two-thirds of the median income of the top eight earners in each of six professions.
Despite the current salary shortfall, some Singaporeans have questioned if there were hidden benefits not listed as part of the salary, which would make make the civil servants' position better than it seemed.
The PSD said the figure of $1.2 million is the maximum amount they can receive, since it includes all bonuses and variable component. About one-third of this annual salary package is variable and depends on the minister or civil servant's performance as well as Singapore's economic situation, it told The Straits Times.
On pensions, the PSD said these are not calculated based on total annual salary packages, and that currently only about half of a minister's montly salary is pensionable.
And contrary to popular belief, ministers do no receive perks like free certificates of entitlement (COEs) or a waiver on maid levies and taxes, said the PSD.
Labour chief Lim Swee Say, commenting on the proposed pay rise, said it is in the workers' interest as it ensures the Government will continue to attract the top talent.
Only with good leaders would Singapore remain afloat in an increasingly competitive global economy, which in turn ensures workers will continue to have jobs, said Mr Lim. -
A very sharp forum article in today's ST: Print edition
Strength of S'pore rests on people not just govt
I REFER to the article, 'What's this place worth to you?' by Mr Paul Jacob (ST, March 24).
Mr Jacob exposes our true selves - ever envious of those better than us, but seldom sparing a thought for the less fortunate.
It serves as a timely reminder for our elites to stop comparing themselves with top bankers and accountants and to focus instead on improving the livelihood of the commoners.
He urges us to look at where we came from and who got us where we are today. He reminds us of such grand undertakings as the transformation of Jurong swamp into the engine room for the modern Singapore economy and the creation of the icon that would be Singapore Airlines.
But these are the contributions of our leaders from an earlier era, contributions we Singaporeans are forever grateful for.
What has our present generation of politicians to show?
It is not that citizens do not appreciate the fact that Singapore ticks, but all first-world cities tick.
Hygienic eating places and clean running water are commonly available in all first world cities.
What is it that we have here that other places don't have? Why must we pay a premium for what everybody else has?
All the things that are collectively provided by Singaporeans are collectively worth the whole of Singapore and the prize goes ultimately to all Singaporeans, not to one or two politicians.
The quality of our government would be nothing without the quality of its people, and the strength of the Singapore brand ultimately rests with Singaporeans.
Paying my politician top dollar may not dent my pocket, but it angers many ordinary Singaporeans who have to pay more for everything without having the freedom to write their own paycheck.
What the politicians have to show of late doesn't demonstrate the talent they claim to have, and certainly not the justification for their millions.
The pact of mutual benefit, which has been used more often than it should, is fast losing faith among Singaporeans who find their salaries relatively unchanged in a decade when ministers, in good times or bad, continue to earn millions.
Ng Kok Lim
Source: ST Forum
A no-frills straight to the point article that i would like to see our govt answer. Kudos to Ng for his well-worded response. -
The system has become a total autocracy now.
Even as it has been proven that government has been over-taxing on public housing and essential services and there is enough surpluses and tax monies to lower costs of living, government will not do so and even if there is no justification to increase GST, it will still go ahead and increase GST.
Now essentially government is behaving like it is too powerful with all the GRCs and legalistic wrangling of laws and regulation which it regards as world's best leadership, it could get away with any wrongful acts and policies like paying the ministers any salary increments or benefits without justifications being accepted by the people which only benefit themselves and not the people.
Government has basically taken people completely for granted.
It is a "No Contest" situation where the leaders have proven to be too powerful with abuses like: "I will call you a liar and if you do not sue me you are a liar." or "I will do lift upgrading first only for my loyal supporters and what can you do to me" "With GRC there is no way you could vote me out and that is why I am rewarding myself with higher salaries and doing all these and so what can you do" -
The Retirement package when a Minister retires is worth 11 million.Retirement package
The PSD said the figure of $1.2 million is the maximum amount they can receive, since it includes all bonuses and variable component. About one-third of this annual salary package is variable and depends on the minister or civil servant's performance as well as Singapore's economic situation, it told The Straits Times.
On pensions, the PSD said these are not calculated based on total annual salary packages, and that currently only about half of a minister's montly salary is pensionable.
This calculation is based on the assumption
1. Annual receipt of about 600,000 SGD
2. Interest rate of 4%
3. The pension is collected from 55-84 years old
http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/annuity_calculator.htm
Where else can you find such generous retirement package of 11 Million dollars?
If they raise their salary to 2.2 million pension package should be about 20 million -
the government says the population should grow to 6.5million people in a couple of years time. the ministers who are being paid millions will continue to live in luxury while the man on the street has to sufer living with a enhanced population and each day fight for limited resources on transportation and housing. we pay the ministers millions to tell us that we need to grow our population to 6.5million! maybe ministers should live in HDB flats and travel on the MRT too!
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animals farmOriginally posted by mrwonderful:Its back to school:
Squealer: "Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organization of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples." Surely, comrades, surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?
Remember Boxer dying and instead of sending him to a decent burial the pigs sold him to a butcher for more $ from his carcass? Imagine the butcher's shop was named HOTA.
Hopefully they never read 1984.
read it as a story, it fun. read it with its meaning, it mocking politics. -
1. raise GST to helk
p the poor.
2. raise salaries to prevent corruptions
wtf, what else could they think of?
1. raise tax to prevent you from overspending?
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The reason given by the govt for raising ministers pay is some Admin officers resigned due to they can get higher salalries in the private sector.If the problems lies with the Admin Officers,the govt can just adjust the pay for them.Why should it include ministers?There is no problem of ministers resigning due to salaries.So their salaries shouldn't be raised.
I believeit is good to narrow the gap between the top & the bottom salaries in the administrative services (which include the ministers). -
Seriously.... I tink for the higher ministers' pay... many are protesting loudly already... if they really can't listen... something serious will happen in future...
or are they already immunsed by our protest??? -
I believe there is no protests but just critiscism.I'm glad the govt allow us to air our criticism.
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Dear readers,
suggest we all encourage to get our ministers to raise their salaries to the higherest level possible. Better off let them price themselve out of the market.
Give the brigtherest and the elites applause. -
Another more docile response to the exhorbitant increase in an already exhorbitant ministerial salary:
April 3, 2007
The flip side of high Civil Service pay
WHILE it is important to have good and honest top civil servants and ministers, there may be a flip side to the continued large increments in their salaries that seem to be necessary to retain them.
Firstly, there may be a secret pool of potential entrepreneurs among our top civil servants and ministers. By paying them so highly, we may be inhibiting them from striking out to start their own businesses.
Secondly, by making the pay so attractive, we will inadvertently encourage our top scholars and other young talent to make the Civil Service their career choice. Surely, we do not want to propagate a system similar to that in ancient China when top scholars vied with each other in the imperial exams in order to join the civil service. This may be the reason why China continues to trail the West in technological innovation. What we need instead is to cultivate a culture of enterprise among our best brains so that they can create high-tech businesses that in turn will provide jobs, by making the Civil Service less attractive than private enterprise, as in the West.
Finally, by saying that we need to pay top dollar for top talent, we are saying that certain people are indispensable. This may breed complacency. In truth, nobody is indispensable and if more people knew that their services were dispensable, more of them would be on their toes.
Top civil servants should also be rotated between ministries every five years or so in order to bring in a fresh perspective. If they are not satisfied with their pay or their jobs and wish to leave, let them go. We can always bring in cheaper and perhaps better foreign talent. After all, some of our first-generation ministers were not originally from Singapore and yet they served us well.
It is true that one of the reasons why Singapore's Civil Service is free of corruption is the high pay enjoyed by top civil servants and ministers. However, a balance must be struck between paying enough and paying too much.
Top civil servants must also be made to realise that the attraction of work in the Civil Service does not lie in remuneration. Rather, the attraction should lie in the opportunity to contribute to the well-being of the country and its people, to 'make a difference'.
Dr Anne Chong Su Yan
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If you read the papers today, the poor old women living in a rental flat has only plain rice to eat. The government feels that older people should only receive a megearly sum of few dollars a month! while we turn around and pay our ministers millions. we are forgetting that these are the old folks that helped build singapore! the government now needs justification in supporting them in old age!