New announcement for even higher Minsiters' pay...
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No cannot....we cannot give S'poreans a "crutch" mentality.Originally posted by gill_hfc:If you read the papers today, the poor old women living in a rental flat has only plain rice to eat. The government feels that older people should only receive a megearly sum of few dollars a month! while we turn around and pay our ministers millions. we are forgetting that these are the old folks that helped build singapore! the government now needs justification in supporting them in old age!
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If it wasn't for the older generation and their spirit for nation building, ministers wont be getting paid in their millions in this age!! today we are forgetting the older generation and the government seeks justification in paying them a few dollars more a month! shame on the PAP and its bunch of yes ministers!
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1. Thanks for voting MIW.
2. I think we NEED to DISCUSS to OUR BOSSES about how many more 'peanuts' we should increase each year for our pay....
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I am currently overseas, anyone got any latest update on this topic?
The Singapore Government and it's (easily corrupted if not well-paid) ministers are making us Singaporeans look like fools.
Are we Singaporeans really that spineless to take the road less travelled? Are we Singaporeans really that spineless to question and demand answers?
Are we all cowards? Or has our system shaped us to be as such? -
Singaporean are only good at making noise then follow all policy the government make.. I don't think they give two hoot about what we are crying now .. afterall, this is not the first time they raise their salary...... every time we make noise, they don't care. They got their raise and best of all, they still get elected ...Originally posted by sunny6110:Seriously.... I tink for the higher ministers' pay... many are protesting loudly already... if they really can't listen... something serious will happen in future...
or are they already immunsed by our protest???
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Hai, that's why I said that nothing will ever change. Lots of people still like status quo.
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I said it before;
For ANYTHING to change, there shall HAVE TO BE, a sudden great instability here - economy will crash, riots will break out, many will be jailed, and much more clashes until the current power that be, bows out...
And this, will not happen now...
Much later when most or all of the locals have migrated, the new citizens who came here as foreigners shall be the ones who will be far more vocal and active then us locals...
Just u wait and see...
SH|T will eventually hit the fan BIG TIME... -
FARKING TEST THE PATIENCE OF SINGAPOREANS....Originally posted by LinYu:1. raise GST to helk
p the poor.
2. raise salaries to prevent corruptions
wtf, what else could they think of?
1. raise tax to prevent you from overspending? -
Originally posted by PRP:
So does that mean that if all of us are to RESIGN from our CURRENT JOB then we're SUPPOSE to get a PAY RISE TOO....?
The reason given by the govt for raising ministers pay is some Admin officers resigned due to they can get higher salalries in the private sector.[b]If the problems lies with the Admin Officers,the govt can just adjust the pay for them.Why should it include ministers?There is no problem of ministers resigning due to salaries.So their salaries shouldn't be raised.
I believeit is good to narrow the gap between the top & the bottom salaries in the administrative services (which include the ministers).[/b]
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You think they CARE about our 'mambo jumbos'...?Originally posted by PRP:I believe there is no protests but just critiscism.I'm glad the govt allow us to air our criticism. -
......Originally posted by gill_hfc:If you read the papers today, the poor old women living in a rental flat has only plain rice to eat. The government feels that older people should only receive a megearly sum of few dollars a month! while we turn around and pay our ministers millions. we are forgetting that these are the old folks that helped build singapore! the government now needs justification in supporting them in old age! -
U forgot to ask how many foreigner will actaully be intereted to convert to Spore citizenship? If they converted to Spore citizenship, will they still beOriginally posted by Spartans:Are u all sure we can kick PAP off in the next few elections???
Local Singaporeans are emigrating in an unprecedent rate while foreign 'talents' are entering in a rapid rate. Let say Singapore population increases to 6.5 millions which is wat the government wanted, how many % of the population is still locally bred and raised Singaporeans?
The foreign born 'Singaporeans' number will be even more than local born Singaporeans. omg. And most likely they will support the PAP for letting them in.
If all local bred Singaporean voted for opposition parties, the PAP will still win the elections.
On a hindsight, maybe in a few years time, we be talking like a Chinaman instead of Singlish lor...
interested to stay or merely used the Spore pasport to migrate to other countries? -
Can the cleaners in Singapore demand a pay increase? Let's have it pegged to the cleaners in Australia should we?
Are the cleaners in Singapore doing a worse job than those in Australia or in any other countries?
STUPID REASONS by the government to LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS WITH OUR HARD-EARNED MONEY. -
A response to Ng Kok Lin's letter concerning exhorbitant pay:
Better a finite quantum than fake selflessness
I REFER to Mr Ng Kok Lim's letter, 'Strength of S'pore rests on people, not just govt' (ST, April 2).
According to a Chinese proverb, an able general is worth more than 10,000 foot soldiers. So too is the worth of our leaders if they have the collective wisdom to help us weather relentless global competition and regional neighbourly crankiness.
The fact is, Singapore has no right to be a First World city, yet we almost are. The fact is, not being exposed to the political shenanigans of First World countries, their system of pork-barrel politics and opaque financial rewards for politicians, we are not in a position to claim that we are paying a premium for our political leadership.
I, for one, would far prefer a transparent and finite quantum of remuneration for our leaders rather than indulge in the hypocrisy of leaders serving selflessly for small salaries while habitually reaching into the country's till to enrich themselves.
Till the day comes that our politicians are found to have acted without financial probity and can no longer speak with moral authority, I believe the present pay system is equitable.
I have experienced the palmy days of the 1980s and early 90s when Singapore was uniquely successful due to a confluence of congenial factors, not the least being a government quick to exploit opportunities.
Come the late 90s and the early part of the new century when we almost sank due to the Asian financial crisis, Sars, haze and bird flu, and seeing that competing Third World countries were imitating our formula for success to death, that China had become the chief focus for investments and that our geographical region had lost its allure for both the tourist and manufacturing dollar, I thought that the halcyon days of Singapore were history. But lo and behold, have we not risen like a phoenix from the ashes? Isn't Singapore now more financially prosperous, more aesthetically pleasing, more a haven for the arts, more tolerant of view divergence?
No society can be totally egalitarian. It is all that the Government can do to create opportunities for those with panache to risk it all and get rich, to create jobs for those who are risk averse and want nothing more than a steady if unexciting salary, to provide the needy with charitable relief and to keep the destitutes to a minimum level.
On all counts, the present Government, as the previous ones that fortunate Singaporeans have had, has succeeded and has lots to show for it.
Dr Yik Keng Yeong
Source: ST Forum -
For all Dr Yik's grandiose claims and superfluous writings, he failed to addressed crucial points that Ng mentioned. His response is therefore once again, like many others who defend the pay hike as justifiable, skirting the issues and addressing things at a tangent. I will try to break it down in detail:
#1: Ng asked why we should pay a premium for first world quality when others (possibly more established first world cities) do not?
Dr Yik responded, and quite superficially too, that we are not in a position to claim that we are paying a premium for our political leadership. Yet he made no attempt to go into detail exactly why we have no such 'right'.
By comparing the obvious gap of ministerial wages between equally developed countries such as NZ, Denmark and Australia against those of Singapore, it does lend considerable weight to Ng's argument - that we are being forced to pay (through taxpayer's monies) a 'premium' price for supposedly 'brilliant' leadership, when in comparison, these countries and cities have equal if not better amenities and leadership.
#2: Ng mentioned that the pact of mutual benefit which has been used more often than it should, is fast losing faith among Singaporeans who find their salaries relatively unchanged in a decade when ministers, in good times or bad, continue to earn millions.
Instead of addressing whether the ministers truly deserved their millions, he skirted the issue and instead provided yet another superficial statement of 'Till the day comes that our politicians are found to have acted without financial probity and can no longer speak with moral authority, I believe the present pay system is equitable. '
In essence, he openly supports the millions that ministers earn, on account of their 'transparency' and 'moral values'. But how transparent has our govt been when it comes to ministerial salaries?
How much is too much?
PM Lee has been quoted many times as saying that ministerial wages is first and foremost - a non-discussion topic. The next thing that irks many singaporeans is that our govt conveniently pegs the salary to the median of the top 8 private sector professionals.
It is clear that these top 8 are more than likely to change each year, but the earnings are unlikely to fall. Hence, Ng's argument: that 'in good time or bad' ministers will continue to rake in millions, despite the relatively stagnant pay of the average singaporeans, is surely a valid and important claim against the pay hike.
In short, they write their own paychecks, as and when they like. (or when they preceive themselves to have done a good job...)
It should also be noted that, had this furore not erupted, our govt is unlikely to have produced more information concerning the upcoming pay hike and pay structure of senior civil servants, including the fact the those directly affected are individuals in the SR9 and above catagory. It should also be noted that they have still not revealed anything of significance in terms of the formula concering how ministers are paid, further reinforcing PM Lee's claim that such items are 'non-discussion'.
#3: Lastly, Ng mentioned that in comparison to the previous generation of leaders, What has our present generation of politicians to show?
To this, Dr Yik provides perhaps the meekest answer: On all counts, the present Government, as the previous ones that fortunate Singaporeans have had, has succeeded and has lots to show for it.
Ironically, he offers absolutely nothing to back up his outrageous claim. Instead, he prefers to sprout rhetoric which implies the same govt line: that singaporeans are a bunch of ungrateful ingrates who only know how to complain.
For a doctor who probably ranks among the top earners locally, such an unconvincing response is surely by all accounts, substandard? -
A non printed response opposing the pay hike:
April 4, 2007
Serving the nation - altruistically
IT MAY appear pointless trying to expound on an issue that has already been decided upon and I risk being politically incorrect.
However, there is a groundswell of opinion that is against the proposed near-doubling of the politicians' remuneration package and I sincerely feel that this overwhelming opinion of the people should not be neglected nor overlooked.
It is regrettable that the Government is not able to persuade our ablest and best to serve the people on the basis of public service. Instead it seems that the only way to secure these loyalties is the time-honoured method - financial compensation.
Idealism in any form seems dead and buried in Singapore and pragmatism and 'looking after oneself' is touted to be the name of the new game.
None of us expect our political leaders to serve us for free, neither do we want them to be tempted to line their pockets with ill-gotten gains like corrupt Third World politicians that we hear about almost ad nauseum.
But no right-thinking person looking at the present salary-scale of our ministers will likely feel that they are hard done by. In fact, if I am not wrong, our politicians get many times the salaries of First World politicians.
To me, the crux of the matter is this.
To most Singaporeans, $1 million a year is a princely sum, even for our political leaders. Also, the ministers will have the satisfaction of knowing that they are serving their nation and when they have done their part and stepped down from the stage, they will be remembered by all as having honourably served their country in a time of need.
However, if for whatever reason, any minister should feel that this is insufficient and that he deserves much more (and I am not saying that this is wrong), then perhaps he should offer his services to organisations such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
In this way Singapore will not deprive the world of such exceptional talents and, who knows, Singapore may even have a hand in helping to rid the world of perennial scourges such as poverty and disease.
A win-win situation may then emerge where we have contented people serving the wider world in an organisation where they best fit.
Dr Huang Shoou Chyuan
Source: ST Forum
One of the more 'politically correct' ways of getting to the point, despite what the writer says... -
by then, these people are so rich, they are untouchable. What am I saying, they are already untouchable. Given time, they will be billionaire, with links to ever organization, with all their pawns in the top levels of all sg's companies, now they can indirectly lobby and control everyone's lives without direct power in the government. The government is only a puppet by then.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I said it before;
For ANYTHING to change, there shall HAVE TO BE, a sudden great instability here - economy will crash, riots will break out, many will be jailed, and much more clashes until the current power that be, bows out...
And this, will not happen now...
Much later when most or all of the locals have migrated, the new citizens who came here as foreigners shall be the ones who will be far more vocal and active then us locals...
Just u wait and see...
SH|T will eventually hit the fan BIG TIME... -
The writer probably knows the political realities anyhow and that perhaps he hopes that this meek appeal, however meek, might actually stoke some sympathy.Originally posted by BillyBong:A non printed response opposing the pay hike:
April 4, 2007
Serving the nation - altruistically
IT MAY appear pointless trying to expound on an issue that has already been decided upon and I risk being politically incorrect.
However, there is a groundswell of opinion that is against the proposed near-doubling of the politicians' remuneration package and I sincerely feel that this overwhelming opinion of the people should not be neglected nor overlooked.
It is regrettable that the Government is not able to persuade our ablest and best to serve the people on the basis of public service. Instead it seems that the only way to secure these loyalties is the time-honoured method - financial compensation.
Idealism in any form seems dead and buried in Singapore and pragmatism and 'looking after oneself' is touted to be the name of the new game.
None of us expect our political leaders to serve us for free, neither do we want them to be tempted to line their pockets with ill-gotten gains like corrupt Third World politicians that we hear about almost ad nauseum.
But no right-thinking person looking at the present salary-scale of our ministers will likely feel that they are hard done by. In fact, if I am not wrong, our politicians get many times the salaries of First World politicians.
To me, the crux of the matter is this.
To most Singaporeans, $1 million a year is a princely sum, even for our political leaders. Also, the ministers will have the satisfaction of knowing that they are serving their nation and when they have done their part and stepped down from the stage, they will be remembered by all as having honourably served their country in a time of need.
However, if for whatever reason, any minister should feel that this is insufficient and that he deserves much more (and I am not saying that this is wrong), then perhaps he should offer his services to organisations such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
In this way Singapore will not deprive the world of such exceptional talents and, who knows, Singapore may even have a hand in helping to rid the world of perennial scourges such as poverty and disease.
A win-win situation may then emerge where we have contented people serving the wider world in an organisation where they best fit.
Dr Huang Shoou Chyuan
Source: ST Forum
One of the more 'politically correct' ways of getting to the point, despite what the writer says...
I for one, am less optimistic. -
We work so hard to collect peanut shells.... Then they FAT POCKETS...
I SERIOUSLY don't see how we can get MOTIVATED by their ACTS...? -
The govt doesn't want to raise the public assistance too much due to some concern.But it doesn't mind to raise the minister salaries.Originally posted by gill_hfc:If you read the papers today, the poor old women living in a rental flat has only plain rice to eat. The government feels that older people should only receive a megearly sum of few dollars a month! while we turn around and pay our ministers millions. we are forgetting that these are the old folks that helped build singapore! the government now needs justification in supporting them in old age! -
This is because they only interested in PROFITS for themselves!!!Originally posted by PRP:The govt doesn't want to raise the public assistance too much due to some concern.But it doesn't mind to raise the minister salaries.
Who the hell, do you think most of us are running in the rat race for? Ourselves??? Every step we took in our lives, from baby to old man/woman, abd to Mandai Crematorium, they make the most!
What you think? -
Perhaps we should look at the magnitude of the proposed pay packet. In short, what can S$2.2mil get you in a year or rather, what can S$11,000,000 get you in 5 years (i.e. the term of current government).
1. 10 terrace houses at S$1,100,000 each
2. 38 Mercedes Benz S300L (A) at S$289,000 each
3. Substantial or even controlling stakes in a Sesdaq listed company
4. 2,750 holidays to Europe at S$4,000 per holiday for a duration of 10 days per trip
5. 44 sail boats at S$250,000 per boat.
If the above cannot satisfy them, then they can go Geylang and get 110,000 chicken at S$100 per chick.
They have to consume 60 chickens a day to finish 110,000 in five years. Don't think they are up to it.
So why the need for such high pay? -
Why need such high pays?Originally posted by Sky Rider:Perhaps we should look at the magnitude of the proposed pay packet. In short, what can S$2.2mil get you in a year or rather, what can S$11,000,000 get you in 5 years (i.e. the term of current government).
1. 10 terrace houses at S$1,100,000 each
2. 38 Mercedes Benz S300L (A) at S$289,000 each
3. Substantial or even controlling stakes in a Sesdaq listed company
4. 2,750 holidays to Europe at S$4,000 per holiday for a duration of 10 days per trip
5. 44 sail boats at S$250,000 per boat.
If the above cannot satisfy them, then they can go Geylang and get 110,000 chicken at S$100 per chick.
They have to consume 60 chickens a day to finish 110,000 in five years. Don't think they are up to it.
So why the need for such high pay?
Oh they said that they will become corrupted easily, if they don't get obscenely high salaries...
Which I Think is UTTER CRAPPY excuse...
Come on, GREEDY is GREEDY. Stop all that bull!!!
SH|T, if I don't leave this place, I'll be feeding these good for nothing but increase costs gov! -
more money is needed to pay for surgery to remove any heart, conscience and feelings left in these people.
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agree agree prevent courruption thats bullshitOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Why need such high pays?
Oh they said that they will become corrupted easily, if they don't get obscenely high salaries...
Which I Think is UTTER CRAPPY excuse...
Come on, GREEDY is GREEDY. Stop all that bull!!!
SH|T, if I don't leave this place, I'll be feeding these good for nothing but increase costs gov!
MONEY HAS NTH TO DO WITH corruption lor
and next monday they are telling us how much pay they are gona increased