Are singaporean racists? Are we too proud?
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Dear singaporeans,
I'm new to this forum and was reading thru some posts and realised a growing trend of racism among singaporeans. Esp the way singaporeans treat foreign nationals. I need to speak up so i've started this thread. I want to know what is the problem and why are singaporeans behaving so badly nowadays.
Questions i want to ask,
Are singaporean racists????
Ofcourse we would say no! But i've seen too much racial discrimination going on for a long time now.
Is this the singaporean chinese way of thinking? Malays are called 'giao tor' and now complain about how PRC chinese talk???
Do we stand back and think about how our own speech then? Is our mandarin or english any better? I see so much lor, la, hokkien typos on the net, whats that???? I think we are complaining too much!
Its disgusting to hear people rambling about other's cultures without a single thought! How does it reflect on you????
I admit that i've been 'brainwashed' when i was a child about PRC chinese. I grew up having the impression that they are poor, low educated, dirty, women who come to singapore to hook up married men etc. Yes, i grew up hearing all these stories and i had such an impression about PRC chinese.
However, i'm glad that i've come to the UK for my studies and had the chance to know friends from all over the world. I learn not to judge people and to respect their values.
Here is a short story....
In the 2nd week of my arrival in the UK, i was visiting the library on a saturday evening. Just as i was leaving the building, a taxi pulled up and the taxi man asked if i could help his passenger to settle into his accomodation. My first glimpse of the passenger i thought he was japanese or maybe chinese but i wasnt sure, anyways i went to the receptionist and tried to help him with his accomoadation. Unfortunately, it was a saturday and the office was closed for the weekend, so they adviced that he should find a hotel for the weekend.
I soon found out that he is from Taiyuan, shanxi, near beijing. He spoke english, but was alittle shy to speak up but i could converse with him in mandarin. I felt really bad for him, he was alone, in the UK and language was a barrier. He must be terrified!!! I thought hmmm, hotel in the area will be quite expensive, minimum £50 which is about SGD$150 per night 2 nights and its $300!!! So i offered him to stay in my student accomodation for the weekend. He accepted my offer and was really grateful.
The next day, we went to chinatown to buy some international phone cards to call home to china. I offered him my mobile phone to make the calls and offered to pay for his meals. (I was thinking, hmmmm he must be poor, if he comes from china) So i was very willing to pay for most things.
We got along very well, and infact we share alot in common. He likes red-hot chilli peppers (Rock/Punk Band) and even metallica. Totally similar tastes!! We got on really well for the weekend. He was also my first friend from china.
On monday, i helped him to register with the university accomodation and brought him to the bank to open a bank account.
It was then that he took out a few stacks of cash from his coat. £15,000 cash in total. Thats SGD$45,000!!! I felt real stupid right away, a little disgusted with the way i prejudged him earlier, thinking that he was poor simply because he came from CHINA!
That taught me a lesson, do not judge people too easily. we got off really well together as best mates in the first 2 years uni life and i got to know more and more PRC friends and started to learn more and more about china.
When i came back to singapore and my friends will ask me, oh how was the UK? Did you find alot of angmoh friends? So i tell them yeah, a good mix of different european friends but my closest are from China.
9 out of 10 singaporeans will exclaim, woah really ah? China also go to UK to study ah?
Is this the sentiments of singaporeans over people from other countries? Are we becoming so proud now? I think we have too comfortable life here and we start to forget certain values.
In my 6years stay in the UK, i've met countless PRC and Malaysian friends who told me about their bad experience with singaporeans. And i totally understand why.
I'm new to this forum, but i've seen not less than 5 posts about chinese prc bashings. Reading those posts really disgusts me and i think if they take a step back and look at what they've written, i hope they will think twice before bashing others in future. It doesnt reflect very well on them!!!!!!
So, let the discussion begin. Please chime in on this topic, because i think its a big social problem for singaporeans. -
Yesh.. i heard alot from my friend too.. sometimes this feelings are form by groupthink.. its hard to answer why.. i recommend everyone to watch the movie "Crash".. its says alot about racial harmony and how to avoid racial conflict.. it really a very meaningful show..
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The younger generations from china are more polite...
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i agree with TS~.Originally posted by footprints:Dear singaporeans,
I'm new to this forum and was reading thru some posts and realised a growing trend of racism among singaporeans. Esp the way singaporeans treat foreign nationals. I need to speak up so i've started this thread. I want to know what is the problem and why are singaporeans behaving so badly nowadays.
Questions i want to ask,
Are singaporean racists????
Ofcourse we would say no! But i've seen too much racial discrimination going on for a long time now.
Is this the singaporean chinese way of thinking? Malays are called 'giao tor' and now complain about how PRC chinese talk???
Do we stand back and think about how our own speech then? Is our mandarin or english any better? I see so much lor, la, hokkien typos on the net, whats that???? I think we are complaining too much!
Its disgusting to hear people rambling about other's cultures without a single thought! How does it reflect on you????
I admit that i've been 'brainwashed' when i was a child about PRC chinese. I grew up having the impression that they are poor, low educated, dirty, women who come to singapore to hook up married men etc. Yes, i grew up hearing all these stories and i had such an impression about PRC chinese.
However, i'm glad that i've come to the UK for my studies and had the chance to know friends from all over the world. I learn not to judge people and to respect their values.
Here is a short story....
In the 2nd week of my arrival in the UK, i was visiting the library on a saturday evening. Just as i was leaving the building, a taxi pulled up and the taxi man asked if i could help his passenger to settle into his accomodation. My first glimpse of the passenger i thought he was japanese or maybe chinese but i wasnt sure, anyways i went to the receptionist and tried to help him with his accomoadation. Unfortunately, it was a saturday and the office was closed for the weekend, so they adviced that he should find a hotel for the weekend.
I soon found out that he is from Taiyuan, shanxi, near beijing. He spoke english, but was alittle shy to speak up but i could converse with him in mandarin. I felt really bad for him, he was alone, in the UK and language was a barrier. He must be terrified!!! I thought hmmm, hotel in the area will be quite expensive, minimum £50 which is about SGD$150 per night 2 nights and its $300!!! So i offered him to stay in my student accomodation for the weekend. He accepted my offer and was really grateful.
The next day, we went to chinatown to buy some international phone cards to call home to china. I offered him my mobile phone to make the calls and offered to pay for his meals. (I was thinking, hmmmm he must be poor, if he comes from china) So i was very willing to pay for most things.
We got along very well, and infact we share alot in common. He likes red-hot chilli peppers (Rock/Punk Band) and even metallica. Totally similar tastes!! We got on really well for the weekend. He was also my first friend from china.
On monday, i helped him to register with the university accomodation and brought him to the bank to open a bank account.
It was then that he took out a few stacks of cash from his coat. £15,000 cash in total. Thats SGD$45,000!!! I felt real stupid right away, a little disgusted with the way i prejudged him earlier, thinking that he was poor simply because he came from CHINA!
That taught me a lesson, do not judge people too easily. we got off really well together as best mates in the first 2 years uni life and i got to know more and more PRC friends and started to learn more and more about china.
When i came back to singapore and my friends will ask me, oh how was the UK? Did you find alot of angmoh friends? So i tell them yeah, a good mix of different european friends but my closest are from China.
9 out of 10 singaporeans will exclaim, woah really ah? China also go to UK to study ah?
Is this the sentiments of singaporeans over people from other countries? Are we becoming so proud now? I think we have too comfortable life here and we start to forget certain values.
In my 6years stay in the UK, i've met countless PRC and Malaysian friends who told me about their bad experience with singaporeans. And i totally understand why.
I'm new to this forum, but i've seen not less than 5 posts about chinese prc bashings. Reading those posts really disgusts me and i think if they take a step back and look at what they've written, i hope they will think twice before bashing others in future. It doesnt reflect very well on them!!!!!!
So, let the discussion begin. Please chime in on this topic, because i think its a big social problem for singaporeans.
but for me, i wont really think PRCs are no money, poor or wadever, simply because i hav met a lot of china students whose parents are v rich la!. n well brought up too!.
maybe because my wish is to do chinese studies (my wish), i hav read up quite a bit on china and stuff like dat, including chinese literature, modern history. u can say practically every aspect of china~ for me, i am not bias, because my chinese teacher last time was from china, and he was a v gd teacher. i can say i learn a lot from him last time.
wad i can say is, parent's thinkings are impt. it can influence the kid a lot. my mum used to tell me gd things abt china (of course also got bad stuff la, but singaporeans also got their bad side ma)....yup...
juz my 2 cent worth of view~ -
From my experience with PRC friends, i can honestly say, we are afterall the same. We are 'Han ren'. Decendents from the same fore fathers. Our thinking etc are fundamentally the same.
But singaporeans are alittle too soft compared to PRC. We need to wisen up or we will lose out.
nontheless, i have no problem with PRC chinese. We should all learn to accept them, or any others for that matter. -
Footprint , it takes all kind of people to make these world.
"Some" Singaporean are somewhat naive where social skills are concern. I think their intention are good in general but are not willing to give the time nor the effort to learn more and improve oneself.
There is also a trait in Southern chinese that is we tend to generalized products, emotion, lives, culture. We don't go too detail and try to understand the "why"
The oversea chinese from Taiwan, HKG and PRC. other than Singaporean are quite wealthy in general. But on the otherhand it is difficult for Singaporean to place our identity independently.
Partly our multi-culture enviornment bring us out from a Single race reference compare to the above PRC,Taiwan, HKG. It is not just a food thing but when it come to consideration and decision. Singaporean oversea tend to be better in getting mixing into other culture.
For example, when I tell my PRC and Taiwan friends my wife is XX race they laugh and couldn't believe until i show the picture, where else when I tell my other non chinese friends they accept it immediately. So is that Racist !!!!!!
let me know your thoughts. -
maybe because my wish is to do chinese studies (my wish), i hav read up quite a bit on china and stuff like dat, including chinese literature, modern history. u can say practically every aspect of china~ for me, i am not bias, because my chinese teacher last time was from china, and he was a v gd teacher. i can say i learn a lot from him last time.
I'm glad you've such a good chinese teacher. Its good that you've interest in chinese culture and the interest to learn more. I've regretted not studying hard for my chinese and i'm having difficulties now when i deal with chinese.
wad i can say is, parent's thinkings are impt. it can influence the kid a lot. my mum used to tell me gd things abt china (of course also got bad stuff la, but singaporeans also got their bad side ma)....yup...
China is such a promising market now, it is important to understand their culture. It will be easier to deal with them in the future.
I have met alot of singaopreans who thinks china is backward like the 60's. They have no idea whats shanghai's like. -
TS, meet hellomotosxq ...
hellomotosxq, meet the TS ... -
oh it's an exercise in futility where hellomotosxq is concerned..Originally posted by Fatum:TS, meet hellomotosxq ...
hellomotosxq, meet the TS ...
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no ... you didn't quite get it ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:oh it's an exercise in futility where hellomotosxq is concerned.. 
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I agree with you. Overall, i think singaporeans are very compationate. We are nice people deep down, but perhaps we lack the crafty skills in conversation where we say things with underlying agendas. We are straight talkers and straight to the point. This also boils down to the way we are brought up. I'm born in 1980, so not too old to really comment on the older generation, but from what i notice, my generation on, we are more down to earth, straight talking and we defintely lack the crafty conversational skills. I think its nothing bad. I can't think of a word to really discribe this in english, perhaps you'll know what i mean in mandarin? 'Dan 1 chun2'Originally posted by Arapahoe:Footprint , it takes all kind of people to make these world.
"Some" Singaporean are somewhat naive where social skills are concern. I think their intention are good in general but are not willing to give the time nor the effort to learn more and improve oneself.
There is also a trait in Southern chinese that is we tend to generalized products, emotion, lives, culture. We don't go too detail and try to understand the "why"
The oversea chinese from Taiwan, HKG and PRC. other than Singaporean are quite wealthy in general. But on the otherhand it is difficult for Singaporean to place our identity independently.
Partly our multi-culture enviornment bring us out from a Single race reference compare to the above PRC,Taiwan, HKG. It is not just a food thing but when it come to consideration and decision. Singaporean oversea tend to be better in getting mixing into other culture.
For example, when I tell my PRC and Taiwan friends my wife is XX race they laugh and couldn't believe until i show the picture, where else when I tell my other non chinese friends they accept it immediately. So is that Racist !!!!!!
let me know your thoughts.
I've had conversations with taiwanese friends about our friends from the north and the problems we face dealing with them in business etc. Even taiwanese confess that they are too 'dan1 chun2' in thinking and end up being cheated etc. I think us singaporeans will face this problem when dealing with china. I must say, we are westernised, more straight thinking like the British. But we have a good mix of both.
I'm finding it hard to put all my thoughts into writing and i'm sure i'm missing out some important points, as i'm also trying to rush a reply while at work right now. Perhaps i can recollect all my thoughts together and post something when i get back tonight.
On your last point, i think you're right. Infact my HK friends are mostly quite conservative! Sinaporeans are more open minded actually, probably because of our multi-cultural background. I'm proud of it and i think thats a unique strength we have.
I've not been back for sometime now, but i've notice a divide between chinese, malay and indian communities nowadays. Is that something you've observed too?
I remember those days when we have moral education studies and the smiling tiger campaign. I think those worked! And it seems everyone was touch friendlier then. -
care to elaborate more???Originally posted by Fatum:TS, meet hellomotosxq ...
hellomotosxq, meet the TS ... -
Singapore woos immigrants to boost population
Koh Gui Qing
Reuters
26 Mar 07
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2007/03/26/
Millionaire entrepreneur Robert V. Chandran is just the kind of man Singapore wants.
The India-born entrepreneur listed his marine fuel company Chemoil Energy Ltd. in Singapore in 2006, created about 60 jobs in the city-state, and swapped his American passport for a Singaporean one.
Singapore's government is so worried about the low birth rate and greying population that it is turning to immigrants like Chandran to add another two million people to the island of 4.5 million over the next 40 to 50 years.
For "new" Singaporeans such as Chandran, who can afford to pick and choose where they live, the city-state has a lot to offer: clean air, affordable housing, good schools, reliable phone and internet connections, and an income tax rate of up to 20 percent that is one of the lowest in the region.
"Singapore has a great quality of life," Chandran, 57, told Reuters. "Not to mention the taxes."
Many countries - such as Spain, Ireland and United Arab Emirates - rely on immigration to boost a shrinking labor force. But Singapore's immigration plan is unique because it would boost the population by nearly 50 percent, to the point where those born in Singapore would barely form a majority in their own country.
Such a huge influx of people is worrying many Singaporeans, who fear that they will lose their jobs to foreign immigrants. They also worry about over-crowding and strained race relations.
Most of Singapore's 3.6 million citizens are themselves descendants of earlier waves of immigrants who fled civil war in China or followed the British in colonial times.
Ethnic Chinese make up 75 percent of the population, ethnic Malays 14 percent, Indians 9 percent and others 2 percent.
But the island already has nearly one million foreigners, mostly low-skilled maids and construction workers from countries such as the Philippines, India and Thailand.
There are also some 110,000 professional expatriates, according to the Manpower Ministry, from Europe, North America, Australia, China and India - and those are the ones that some Singaporeans see as a threat to local jobs.
Those hoping to become Singapore residents or citizens are judged on their qualifications, work experience and income, according to a checklist provided by the immigration authorities.
Given the kind of affluent foreigners the government wants to woo, Singaporeans worry they will become "second-class citizens" in their own country, at a time when many poorer Singaporeans already feel left behind because of a widening income gap.
Harmonious mix
Singapore stresses racial and social harmony - anyone caught "promoting" racial hostility or disrupting public order can be jailed - but some fear that immigration may cause problems.
Non-Singaporean Indians "don't mix with the local Indians and then they stay apart, and in some cases, consider themselves superior to the local Indians," said Indranee Rajah, a member of parliament, the Straits Times newspaper reported this month.
Another MP said some Singaporeans now shun a particular Chinese temple used by mainland Chinese.
And, in a country where all Singaporean men have to do National Service, foreigners who are not residents are sometimes resented because they take advantage of Singapore's comfortable lifestyle and good education while avoiding military service.
A Straits Times poll of 448 people in January showed that 52 percent of those surveyed felt Singapore should halt immigration, with most citing the fear of losing their jobs to foreigners.
And while the economy grew 7.9 percent last year, creating a record 176,000 new jobs, about half of those went to foreigners, Manpower Minister Ng Eng Hen told parliament earlier this month.
"If Singaporeans only care about the growth bottom line, then go right ahead. But that is clearly not the case," said Gillian Koh, a senior research fellow at the Institute of Policy Studies, a local think-tank. "We are also dealing with the politics of identity, and the politics of envy."
In search of youth
Like governments in developed nations such as Germany and Japan, Singapore's leaders worry about the long-term implications of an aging population - higher pension costs, a shrinking workforce, and slower economic growth - unless Singapore can boost the number of younger workers through immigration.
The country's growth rate could decline by as much as two percentage points if the government reverses its current liberal immigration policy, said Chua Hak Bin, a Citigroup economist.
But the population increase could also put a strain on infrastructure and housing. Singapore is already the fourth most-densely populated country in the world - packing more than 6,208 people into each square km.
By 2050, that is expected to rise to 6,497 people per square km, leaving the island 176 times more crowded than the United States, and nearly as crowded as Hong Kong, according to the United Nations.
"Who wants to live like Hong Kong? I don't. I don't like the intensity of the bodies around me," said Chua Beng Huat, a sociology professor at the National University of Singapore. -
i think on the contrary the racial divide within the 2nd and 3rd generation Singaporean are lesser as compare to the newly entrench.
I have seen alot more racial mixed relationship. That they are able to loosen up Singapore!!!
I think as a city state we are dominated by strong political influence largely base on Single Race states. Singapore will alway be in the middle ground for these different group of Single ethinic Countries domain of influence. -
Just read the threads in this forum..plenty of racists in Singapore.
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there is nothing wrong in expressing view and providing perspective
rather then keeping quiet and up held a moral high ground. -
i think...i do....Originally posted by Fatum:no ... you didn't quite get it ...
and i dont know which emoticon to use...
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or
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or.....????? -
Agree.... many just want to find someone to blame for their problem. Foreign being the target.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Just read the threads in this forum..plenty of racists in Singapore. -
From time to time, we are led to believe that we are this shining spark in the midst of this dilapedated swarm. It makes us feel a sense of superiority, of pride, and even subjecting our views to enthnocentric tendancies. Are we too proud? I guess that in itself is a subjective judgement. Everyone says that Americans are proud - that is because they are the sole super power in the world and the enforce their policies at will. The Romans who imposed the iron-fisted rule throughout the Ancient World saw themselves as superior to their conquered. You could imagine what the conquered would have said of their Roman Masters. Of course, we are not Romans or Americans. Like them though, many of us possess a mono-singular view of the world, which opens us to attitudes of egocentrism, enthnocentism, and worst of all, dellusion. I guess with greatness, the only logical causal flow would be knowledge. However, with us humans, it seem to be the other way around, with greatness, comes greater naivity and eventually that naivity stares back at us right in the face, as Rome has shown.
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Yes, I do think that Singaporeans are generally proud. Not necessarily racist, but ignorant.
If some Singaporeans thinks that China is still the backward nation of the 60s and 70s, I'd attribute that to ignorance, not racism.
And the TS is right... those people who always criticise the foreigners unfairly (especially criticism levelled against the PRCs), should always take a good look at themselves in the mirror. But I don't think they are the reflecting sort, otherwise they won't be making those comments at all!
Honestly I have an ex-colleague who's just like that. She loves to tell me who-and-who are prejudiced towards the PRCs workers in our workplace, and how they shouldn't be bullying them... But hah, I'd bet she did not even realise how hypocritic she is when she also babbled to me what she really thinks of those PRC girls. -
That's what happens when concepts spread too much. It's the same as superstition.
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Considering we have bloggers like Wendy Cheng who celebrate racism as an acceptable part of human nature... I say we still have quite some ways to go.
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Never saw that particular entry of hers, but if that's what she said, I think she's very misguided. Racism is not an acceptable part of human nature. Instead, it is something we should learn to accept as a part of human nature.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Considering we have bloggers like Wendy Cheng who celebrate racism as an acceptable part of human nature... I say we still have quite some ways to go. -
society ruins everyone.