Are singaporean racists? Are we too proud?
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The correct term is probably xenophobic, considering that our government embraces foreign talent more than the locals embrace foreign neighbours.Originally posted by footprints:Dear singaporeans,
I'm new to this forum and was reading thru some posts and realised a growing trend of racism among singaporeans. Esp the way singaporeans treat foreign nationals. I need to speak up so i've started this thread. I want to know what is the problem and why are singaporeans behaving so badly nowadays.
Questions i want to ask,
Are singaporean racists????
Ofcourse we would say no! But i've seen too much racial discrimination going on for a long time now.
Many Singaporeans who have limited access to international cultures will find it difficult to accept the way an 'ang moh' conducts his lifestyle, or how different nationalities think and work.
Skin colour is not a precise conclusion that leads Singaporeans into the 'racism' trap, since it is evident that eurasians and expatriates have been living in Singapore for the last 20 years, with their numbers blossoming from 1% to the current 4-5%. If Singaporeans were truly perceived to be 'racists', surely the gossip alone would have been enough to dissuade future batches of foreigners from making the arduous trip to make Singapore their 2nd home?
The 'great divide' that separates the average Singapore from his expatriate counterpart is probably the ability to manage his cost of living, given the fact that the massive wage divide openly accepted by our ministers persists in present day Singapore economics, and is deemed a 'necessary evil' to ensure our economic progress.
The government and their army of lackeys are misguided if they continue to delude themselves by concluding that envy is the source of local dissent and frustration, with numerous pot-shots taken at the recent attempt to raise ministerial salary, especially pertaining to the MR4 and SR9 benchmarks.
Why would anyone come to the misplaced notion that Singaporeans are 'racist' at all? -
haha...your jabs do not bother me....LKY has been called worse by the likes of Jeya and CSJ. At the end of the day, LKY is still MM and earns over a million a year, whilst the other two are discredired politicians and bankrupts.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I think as much noise as he makes, OM is currently quite irrelevant when comes to actually affecting Singapore, for better or worse.
So he's more of a paper mushroom... make a lot of noise, but quite useless at the end of the day. -
Yes, the empty laughter of an equally empty man.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:haha...your jabs do not bother me....LKY has been called worse by the likes of Jeya and CSJ. At the end of the day, LKY is still MM and earns over a million a year, whilst the other two are discredired politicians and bankrupts.
If my jabs bother you are not really my concern... I have greater concerns to be afforded on the likes of actual human beings. At the end of the day, it is fortunate that most people in here have plenty of soul and common sense to spend for a year, while you are a discredited forumer and morally bankrupt.
I am but appreciating the appalling lack of humanity that is quite a work of art in itself on your part, and of course find myself hardly alone with like-minded company.
Of course, the glee you show over the treatment of JBJ and CSJ speaks volumes about your character.
So quite rightly given your position, what you say in here is pretty irrelevant at the end of the day, while I still have the power to make my vote count after all the talk in here. And that's what matters in the end.
So yes, you are a Paper Mushroom. -
Dear friends,
Thanks for contributing into this discussion, its really good to see everyone speaking up! I've been discovering alot of interesting discussions on this forum and i'm surprised i've not found it earlier! Alas a place to discuss country matters with others who really care!
I've deliberately chosen a more provocative word 'racist' to stir up emotions of fellow singaporeans in hope of hearing your views about this matter. It turned out much better than i expected to be honest. I was prepared to get flamed big time for my remarks.
Yes i questioned, are singaporeans Racists? I asked myself this question and I can put my hand on my heart and say No we can't be classified as racists as backed by most people who have replied.
Ignorant, selfish, naive and proud, (and a whole lot more) we are all guilty of it. Lets not kid ourselves, havent we heard of ugly singaporeans misbehaving overseas? how about singaporeans littering the minute they step out of singapore into JB or china?
I am criticising singapore because singapore means alot to me. I want the best for our country and we cannot get too complacent about it. Whats the use of us cheering ourselves and ignoring the facts that really matters? I must also point out that being critical is distinctively different from cynical attitudes.
I have met tooooooooooooo many cynical singaporeans. Its such a pity...
There are so many factors involved in this discussion, i try not to deviate from the main points too much or it won't end. I shall summarise on my points.
Singapore is a multi-cultural society. We pride ourselves to live together in harmony, its something very special and we should embrace it. Dont let it go down the drain.
We should be more tolerant of others, be more open minded and accept other's cultures, its a fact we have to live with so make the best out of it. (Singapore will become more and more culturally diverse and immigration is here to stay)
Edcuation is important. Not just academic excellence, but even socially, about how we should treat our neighbours, how we treat other cultures. This kind of education starts from the homes, from a young age, not from moral education in primary school.
If we are willing to take a tiny step back, or be alittle patient, i'm sure alot of misunderstandings can be sorted out. For example, one of the earlier posts refering to the malay soldiers name calling the 'chinese people', to be honest, i dont see whats wrong with that. Perhaps they have no other way to call chinese? I dont think they mean any harm, simply because they have no idea they were being offensive in the first place. If we didnt take those to heart but instead join in with the lads there, i have no doubts the whole platoon will glue together well.
There are always bad sheep in every society. We cannot generalise the entire race/culture/religion/country from our bad experiences with them. China has 1.2billion population. If they have just as many proportion of bad sheeps as singaporeans, their bad sheeps alone could possibly be the entire singaporean population. So lets not jump in to criticise others so easily, it does no good for ourselves, we will only look ugly doing so.
Lets get stronger and prevent ourselves from getting cheated. That should be the way forward. We are too straigth bat, if we continue to be ignorant, we will never face up to the PRC in the future. There will be more and more incidents of singaporeans getting cheated, played out, etc and its our fault for not living up to face the real world.
All these social problems cannot be rectified quickly. Its a mindset and will take generations to change. I think our political climate has attributed to much of these social dilemmas. We are obedient and yet complacent. We have the creature comforts and we get too proud. We think we are 1st world and have the skills in business but we end up picking up the wrong side of the bargain when we deal with other countries.
Am i over critical? Perhaps, but i will act and improve, not just whine away. Singapore has a fantastic future ahead, lets make it rock! -
Talked so much, written such a lengthy essay on the topic.Originally posted by footprints:Dear friends,
Thanks for contributing into this discussion, its really good to see everyone speaking up! I've been discovering alot of interesting discussions on this forum and i'm surprised i've not found it earlier! Alas a place to discuss country matters with others who really care!
I've deliberately chosen a more provocative word 'racist' to stir up emotions of fellow singaporeans in hope of hearing your views about this matter. It turned out much better than i expected to be honest. I was prepared to get flamed big time for my remarks.
Yes i questioned, are singaporeans Racists? I asked myself this question and I can put my hand on my heart and say No we can't be classified as racists as backed by most people who have replied.
Ignorant, selfish, naive and proud, (and a whole lot more) we are all guilty of it. Lets not kid ourselves, havent we heard of ugly singaporeans misbehaving overseas? how about singaporeans littering the minute they step out of singapore into JB or china?
I am criticising singapore because singapore means alot to me. I want the best for our country and we cannot get too complacent about it. Whats the use of us cheering ourselves and ignoring the facts that really matters? I must also point out that being critical is distinctively different from cynical attitudes.
I have met tooooooooooooo many cynical singaporeans. Its such a pity...
There are so many factors involved in this discussion, i try not to deviate from the main points too much or it won't end. I shall summarise on my points.
Singapore is a multi-cultural society. We pride ourselves to live together in harmony, its something very special and we should embrace it. Dont let it go down the drain.
We should be more tolerant of others, be more open minded and accept other's cultures, its a fact we have to live with so make the best out of it. (Singapore will become more and more culturally diverse and immigration is here to stay)
Edcuation is important. Not just academic excellence, but even socially, about how we should treat our neighbours, how we treat other cultures. This kind of education starts from the homes, from a young age, not from moral education in primary school.
If we are willing to take a tiny step back, or be alittle patient, i'm sure alot of misunderstandings can be sorted out. For example, one of the earlier posts refering to the malay soldiers name calling the 'chinese people', to be honest, i dont see whats wrong with that. Perhaps they have no other way to call chinese? I dont think they mean any harm, simply because they have no idea they were being offensive in the first place. If we didnt take those to heart but instead join in with the lads there, i have no doubts the whole platoon will glue together well.
There are always bad sheep in every society. We cannot generalise the entire race/culture/religion/country from our bad experiences with them. China has 1.2billion population. If they have just as many proportion of bad sheeps as singaporeans, their bad sheeps alone could possibly be the entire singaporean population. So lets not jump in to criticise others so easily, it does no good for ourselves, we will only look ugly doing so.
Lets get stronger and prevent ourselves from getting cheated. That should be the way forward. We are too straigth bat, if we continue to be ignorant, we will never face up to the PRC in the future. There will be more and more incidents of singaporeans getting cheated, played out, etc and its our fault for not living up to face the real world.
All these social problems cannot be rectified quickly. Its a mindset and will take generations to change. I think our political climate has attributed to much of these social dilemmas. We are obedient and yet complacent. We have the creature comforts and we get too proud. We think we are 1st world and have the skills in business but we end up picking up the wrong side of the bargain when we deal with other countries.
Am i over critical? Perhaps, but i will act and improve, not just whine away. Singapore has a fantastic future ahead, lets make it rock!
But have you considered the mould-maker who made the mould, that moulded society to the way society is today??? eg; selfish, (kiasu & kiasi), English mostly broken because of Speak Mandarin Campagn, people don't give way by default and are NOT graceous by nature..... because of? the conditionns and pre-conditions we all live by and under!!
Have you ever wondered why many are like that??? Well, let me tell you; they were indirectly TAUGHT TO BE like that through the system! How? Here's how:
>> NO FREE LUNCH (everyone for themselves)
>> Make it or die (no welfare here)
>> Be the FIRST in everything (children from Kindergartten onwards have no child's life as such...)
>> Pay and Pay until you die (NO RETIREMENT - but have Retirement Funds..nbcb..)
Racism?? If it exists here, and among us, do you think we have today??? Being that we are Multi-racial??? -
do not judge a look by its cover!
in many ways Singaporeans are arrogant
i have no qualms abt it..
the reason being we are too much Westernised -
Yeah, i was blabbering too much. But i totally understand where you're coming from. I think there is a slight misunderstanding there, you missed my real points. But its alright bro, its probably my fault, i wasnt that straight bat with my complains too.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Talked so much, written such a lengthy essay on the topic.
But have you considered the mould-maker who made the mould, that moulded society to the way society is today??? eg; selfish, (kiasu & kiasi), English mostly broken because of Speak Mandarin Campagn, people don't give way by default and are NOT graceous by nature..... because of? the conditionns and pre-conditions we all live by and under!!
Have you ever wondered why many are like that??? Well, let me tell you; they were indirectly TAUGHT TO BE like that through the system! How? Here's how:
>> NO FREE LUNCH (everyone for themselves)
>> Make it or die (no welfare here)
>> Be the FIRST in everything (children from Kindergartten onwards have no child's life as such...)
>> Pay and Pay until you die (NO RETIREMENT - but have Retirement Funds..nbcb..)
Racism?? If it exists here, and among us, do you think we have today??? Being that we are Multi-racial???
So the problem really is a social one and caused by the unsound policies. So we need talents here who can put all these things into perspective and mount a strong case for it. But sadly, its difficult. We are being watched all the time. -
I agree with TS on the part where we should not generalise because all in all, there will always be exceptions... And I am definitely sure that there are Singaporeans who are racists.
The complication now is not determining whether Singaporeans are or aren't racists, but more of how to overcome this impalpable problem that always seem to co-exist in the fibre of multi-cultural society. And yes, TS has touched on this with his most recent reply.
"We are obedient and yet complacent. We have the creature comforts and we get too proud. We think we are 1st world and have the skills in business but we end up picking up the wrong side of the bargain when we deal with other countries. "
Complacency. This notion doesn't just pertain to only Singaporeans, but all around the world. It is more of a natural human behaviour - one to feel complacent with onself after attaining a certain dose of achievements, agree?
Pride is vital for success, but over-confidence would lead to failure. How True.
however, what made u say those words I had 'bold-ed' ?? A little harsh there. -
x2.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Talked so much, written such a lengthy essay on the topic.
But have you considered the mould-maker who made the mould, that moulded society to the way society is today??? eg; selfish, (kiasu & kiasi), English mostly broken because of Speak Mandarin Campagn, people don't give way by default and are NOT graceous by nature..... because of? the conditionns and pre-conditions we all live by and under!!
Have you ever wondered why many are like that??? Well, let me tell you; they were indirectly TAUGHT TO BE like that through the system! How? Here's how:
>> NO FREE LUNCH (everyone for themselves)
>> Make it or die (no welfare here)
>> Be the FIRST in everything (children from Kindergartten onwards have no child's life as such...)
>> Pay and Pay until you die (NO RETIREMENT - but have Retirement Funds..nbcb..)
Racism?? If it exists here, and among us, do you think we have today??? Being that we are Multi-racial???
I often question my Malay friends that, do they mind alot when they overhear racist jokes, especially about them. To my surprise, they said no! They replied that they can understand that the other race were only joking and in no way serious.
Sometimes, racism jokes are told just purely for the FUN of it and no direct inflicts intended.
Reminds me of a situation i encountered yesterday.
On a bus trip back home from school (with a few friends), we chatted round current affairs and landed our topic on the recent quakes in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.
We were interrupted abruptly by an Indian man in his fourties. Apparently he thought that we were talking bout racist jokes about the indians, and brawled loudly, lecturing us in public, threatening to 'whack us up'. Obviously, our try to defend ourselves were rejected. Anyway, an old uncle came to our aid and explained on our behalf.
Nonetheless, my main point is, sometimes each race may be over-sensitive at certain times, leading to further misconception of each other. Let's say if the old man did not help to clarify, would the Indian man bring home the stories of rude Chinese teens openly talking bout racist jokes in public? Same with the rest of the public on the bus. How would they think? -
i admit i do see PRCs through tinted glasses, but my perception of them is shaped through bad personal experience rather than group think.
as i grow older and come in contact with more cultures, i do form a general perception of a certain group of people based on my prior experience with them. many of us, i'm sure, suffer from this. we simply don't have the time or sensitivity to analyse whether we should be thinking this way or not.
whether we do it consciously or subconsciously, we are judging people all the time. -
You are right, we really DO NOT have a racial problem here. Our jabs and jokes towards friends, colleagues and strangers are at best friendly fun-poking. Such as to an Indian local, we say he might Chapati your face if you piss him off. ANd to a malay local friend, we say he'd Assam Pedas you, if you piss him or her off.Originally posted by TrixCereals:x2.
I often question my Malay friends that, do they mind alot when they overhear racist jokes, especially about them. To my surprise, they said no! They replied that they can understand that the other race were only joking and in no way serious.
Sometimes, racism jokes are told just purely for the FUN of it and no direct inflicts intended.
Reminds me of a situation i encountered yesterday.
On a bus trip back home from school (with a few friends), we chatted round current affairs and landed our topic on the recent quakes in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.
We were interrupted abruptly by an Indian man in his fourties. Apparently he thought that we were talking bout racist jokes about the indians, and brawled loudly, lecturing us in public, threatening to 'whack us up'. Obviously, our try to defend ourselves were rejected. Anyway, an old uncle came to our aid and explained on our behalf.
Nonetheless, my main point is, sometimes each race may be over-sensitive at certain times, leading to further misconception of each other. Let's say if the old man did not help to clarify, would the Indian man bring home the stories of rude Chinese teens openly talking bout racist jokes in public? Same with the rest of the public on the bus. How would they think?
Sensitive people are everywhere. We should also watch our company before making any Racial-based jokes, or remarks, however innocent our intentions may be. Unlike the remarks our gov made last year, which got our neighbors all hot around their collars!
We are fine here, its just the prolifieration of loud unruly and scheming PRCs that are still flooding our country for all sorts of opportunities....
If we are racists, we won't be just talking down on PRCs... there will be Thais, Indians, Europeans, etc..
PRCs just sticks out like the sorest of all sore thumbs!
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So what's your solution to this "problem"?
Go out and find some PRCs to beat up?
Everytime you see one shout "PRC go home!"
Find ways to make life difficult for them?
Or make noise impotently in SGforums? -
Very simple; let the gov learn from their mistake - they are very fond of making U-turns...just like Casinos, F1 Racing, and many others swept under their carpets of face-saving excuses...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:So what's your solution to this "problem"?
Go out and find some PRCs to beat up?
Everytime you see one shout "PRC go home!"
Find ways to make life difficult for them?
Or make noise impotently in SGforums? -
Since it's so simple, then why make noise about it?
Just let things take their natural progress lah, you make noise no make noise also no difference, and making noise over something you can neither affect not change is an exercise in futility. -
If that was the case, then this particular forum must be existing in futile purpose...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Since it's so simple, then why make noise about it?
Just let things take their natural progress lah, you make noise no make noise also no difference, and making noise over something you can neither affect not change is an exercise in futility.
Even though none of us could affect any changes, at least, there is the chance that someone up there in their ivory tower may chance to read what people generally thinks of them and their damb ass policies... -
I never meant to imply that singaporeans are Racist. I dont think so and i agree with most of your replies. I think we have come a long way with our multicultural background and as some have rightly pointed out, its probably our insensitivity sometimes that might cause the misunderstandings.
I feel that deep down, singaporeans are very compassionate and nice people. But its just the way we conduct ourselves that is ugly.
We can all agree that singaporeans are Proud yeah? Having pride in our country, our values is good. Self actualisation is important, but lets not allow ourselves to go over the top and get too big headed. Singaporeans are too 'Hao LIan" I just think we should stop for a while and remind ourselves not to get too carried away.
I think we are too pampered. At least from my generation on, 1980 and on. No doubts bout that. We are lacking many survival skills, our young ones are becoming increasingly 'innocent' and naive.
That goes to my next point abt us not having the skills to survive in the thick of things. Do we have what it takes to really stand up against the PRCs?
I dont think we should get rid of PRCs here. Instead, we should adopt a more stringent entry requirement. UK is doing that, so is every other 1st world nation. We can't stop them from flooding in, but we can filter them with sound policies. Hey, they have loads to contribute, see why macau casinos have overtaken Las vegas? Lets spread the wealth here. Let them in, but choose carefully. -
I agree with with you on all counts regarding the characteristics and common personalities of locals, Singaporeans must brush up constantly. And all these while, it is also my view, to "filter" the influx of PRCs coming into our country, and not to totally bar or ban them from entering to join and contribute to our workforce.Originally posted by footprints:I never meant to imply that singaporeans are Racist. I dont think so and i agree with most of your replies. I think we have come a long way with our multicultural background and as some have rightly pointed out, its probably our insensitivity sometimes that might cause the misunderstandings.
I feel that deep down, singaporeans are very compassionate and nice people. But its just the way we conduct ourselves that is ugly.
We can all agree that singaporeans are Proud yeah? Having pride in our country, our values is good. Self actualisation is important, but lets not allow ourselves to go over the top and get too big headed. Singaporeans are too 'Hao LIan" I just think we should stop for a while and remind ourselves not to get too carried away.
I think we are too pampered. At least from my generation on, 1980 and on. No doubts bout that. We are lacking many survival skills, our young ones are becoming increasingly 'innocent' and naive.
That goes to my next point abt us not having the skills to survive in the thick of things. Do we have what it takes to really stand up against the PRCs?
I dont think we should get rid of PRCs here. Instead, we should adopt a more stringent entry requirement. UK is doing that, so is every other 1st world nation. We can't stop them from flooding in, but we can filter them with sound policies. Hey, they have loads to contribute, see why macau casinos have overtaken Las vegas? Lets spread the wealth here. Let them in, but choose carefully.
Saturating our market with PRCs is NOT going to help locals find employment to feed themselves, if our gov doesn't believe in Welfarism. -
Do you seriously think they do not know the public opinion on this?Originally posted by ShutterBug:If that was the case, then this particular forum must be existing in futile purpose...
Even though none of us could affect any changes, at least, there is the chance that someone up there in their ivory tower may chance to read what people generally thinks of them and their damb ass policies... -
I think u think too much oredi. with ur attitude, u seem to keep on saying S'porean are racists. What protest or wave billboard in s'pore? What bully and beat them up on the street? r u a foreigner, u do not know the law of s'pore, Singapore cannot protest or anyhow beat up somebody, or else police will come knocking ur door leh. etc putting white elephant board led to police investigate and warning. Anyway, it is the first time I hear someone will keep bad apple, bad apple are inedible, eating too much will cause stomaches pain or cancer. The above statement is just joking. Don't keep on saying protest or beat up somebody leh, you seem to encourage violence in s'porean.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Do you seriously think they do not know the public opinion on this?
Like I say, People talk about their bad experience with foreigner, and u keep saying they r ignorance. U seem to assume ur good experience with PRC and mean other oso have good experience like you. And those have bad xperience, you seem to say, that is not my business.
When PRC huang na died, alot of singaporean give donation and consolation to her parent and even arrange for her funeral. They give $150 000 to her parents. plus the S'porean guy that murder PRC, S'porean oso arrange for her funeral and give some donation to her sisters. If Sinagporean r racists, they will not do the above, right?
Like the massage centre hiring prc study mama to do somethng illegally, and extend to neighbourhood. If it has not become a serious problem, the police and govt won't step in and set up rules and regulation to make live difficult for them. If foreigner don't do anything illegal or harm other, there is nothing for them to afraid. Singaporean know how to make judgement. As time goes by, we will get to know each other better. You can't force other to accept ur view right now, just like those who don't have good impression of them call you to accept their view, will u agree? I think the results is the same. whether PRC/foreigner good or bad, the time will tell........ -
In general, and as testified by many in age groups of 40 - 70 year of age, people of China, are by nature GREEDY.
Hokkien: "Tum-sim" -
You think too much liao...Originally posted by sunnytv:I think u think too much oredi. with ur attitude, u seem to keep on saying S'porean are racists. What protest or wave billboard in s'pore? What bully and beat them up on the street? r u a foreigner, u do not know the law of s'pore, Singapore cannot protest or anyhow beat up somebody, or else police will come knocking ur door leh. etc putting white elephant board led to police investigate and warning. Anyway, it is the first time I hear someone will keep bad apple, bad apple are inedible, eating too much will cause stomaches pain or cancer. The above statement is just joking. Don't keep on saying protest or beat up somebody leh, you seem to encourage violence in s'porean.
Like I say, People talk about their bad experience with foreigner, and u keep saying they r ignorance. U seem to assume ur good experience with PRC and mean other oso have good experience like you. And those have bad xperience, you seem to say, that is not my business.
When PRC huang na died, alot of singaporean give donation and consolation to her parent and even arrange for her funeral. They give $150 000 to her parents. plus the S'porean guy that murder PRC, S'porean oso arrange for her funeral and give some donation to her sisters. If Sinagporean r racists, they will not do the above, right?
Like the massage centre hiring prc study mama to do somethng illegally, and extend to neighbourhood. If it has not become a serious problem, the police and govt won't step in and set up rules and regulation to make live difficult for them. If foreigner don't do anything illegal or harm other, there is nothing for them to afraid. Singaporean know how to make judgement. As time goes by, we will get to know each other better. You can't force other to accept ur view right now, just like those who don't have good impression of them call you to accept their view, will u agree? I think the results is the same. whether PRC/foreigner good or bad, the time will tell........
What I am saying is:
There's nothing we can do about it.