Free Education
-
Ok.... There's no Free Lunch in this world.... I suggest for free education only... Not subsidised petrol, not Free medical care, not Paying for those who dun work at all....
There are not enough in the workforce rite?? So the gov provide free education.... The singaporeans' National Service(including Girls) start at the age of 16-17 after O levels....
All must go though Poly... Take away A Levels... this way... every citizen starts learning a skill that the industries need at the age of 16-17(cheap Labour.. the gov provides ur education remember??).... During Holidays... All citizens are attached to GLCs... or some other companies that requires the student's skills set.... High Flyers may oso be sent to Overseas Attachments....
Minimum education a singaporean must possess is at least a Basic Degree.... Those who can't complete or dun wanna complete therefore is owing the Gov NS liabilities... They are not allowed to setup business in sg... they are not allowed to work for companies as they pleased.... So die die oso hv to study and do "NS"... Might as well choose a field that they hv passion abt....
In this way... we solve the problem of middle management workforce.... Top management and R&D maybe still need foreign talents.... but sg does not requires as many as now....
On the same time... we still welcome pple to come sg to study wif us... still aim to be an world class education hub...
there are problems in this system... STILL needa import foreign talents ,... But mostly low end one... High end one got... but will get lesser as time goes by...
And since every citizen's a basic degree holder... we can produce more Doctors.... There might be a over-supply of doctors here.... as a result... these pple's skills will be a demand by other countries and head-hunted... It is another prob How our Gov wanna retain really... our own LOCAL talent~~ -
Just one question, did you read?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:You asked about Tertiary education, I stated the dynamics. IF you are going to drag another topic in, then you are throwing in another question that isn't quite so relevant. I doubt MOE which if I am not wrong funds NUS/NTU and SMU, control the pay scales for the professors and even if they do, it is a totally different scale from the average civil servant and I doubt they are even considered civil servants.
MOE does in fact help to subsidize the tertiary education here, in fact, all levels of education, not just the universities.
If not, fees will not cheap. -
R u an Uni graduated from NUS n NTU?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Just one question, did you read?
MOE does in fact help to subsidize the tertiary education here, in fact, all levels of education, not just the universities.
If not, fees will not cheap.
Pls check yrself of the Unis in overseas b4 u opened yr big mouth!!! -
Poly students can go universities, the only thing is limits.Originally posted by sunny6110:I mean the priority should be giving free education instead of raising ministers' pay...... Y poly students can't go Uni??? there are not enough places rite?? Y not build more Unis and still can aim to be world class??
our citizens spend so much to study aboard...
Shall we hv a REthink to do away wif the A levels?? Can state a reason Y do we need A levels now?? All should go through poly and if maybe dun like the course of study and can switch during Unis but a longer route of coz la....
Afraid of compromising standards??? Fail Those who can't perform....
Good scores are needed to ensure a place. Even better scores are needed if you intend to take something different from what you took in poly.
That's for local.
For overseas, it costs even more.
There's no way we can build more universities. Land in Singapore is limited. With aging population, it only serves to worsen situation. Pavements need to widen for wheelchair-bound people, hospitals need to upgrade in terms of size to serve more people.
As for A Levels, it's commonly regarded as a gateway to obtain a university degree. I don't think there's a need to do away with it, because A Levels offer different subjects from polytechnics and ITEs. Since it's a gateway to university, these students will most likely study either similar subjects or they won't. If they do study similar subjects, then their knowledge will help.
IB (currently tested in one school?) could replace A Levels, but the chances of it replacing A Levels entirely is probably zero.
Your second idea is not a bad one, it's very similar to Australia and other western countries. Those are known as community colleges, which will serve as a foundation for universities courses if students don't have the knowledge. -
Maybe you should read. The thread starter talked about free education, not subsidised education. So what on earth are you talking about?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Just one question, did you read?
MOE does in fact help to subsidize the tertiary education here, in fact, all levels of education, not just the universities.
If not, fees will not cheap.
I talk about professor pay scales and you talk about uni fees?! -
MOE does subsidize...Originally posted by foomwee88:R u an Uni graduated from NUS n NTU?
Pls check yrself of the Unis in overseas b4 u opened yr big mouth!!!The substantial tuition subsidy from the Government of Singapore comes in the form of a tuition grant which is administered by the Ministry of Education (MOE) and offered to all admitted students
http://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/undergraduate/fees.htm
The subsidy is also offered to polytechnic students.A studentÂ’s full-time diploma education is subsidized by the Singapore Government, through the Ministry of Education (MOE), in the form of a Tuition Grant (TG). All newly-admitted students are offered tuition grants and only students who have successfully applied for tuition grant will pay subsidized school fees.
http://myrp1.myrp.edu.sg/sites/osc/studenthandbook/financial.aspx -
gd scores anot can be placed in different classes...Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Poly students can go universities, the only thing is limits.
Good scores are needed to ensure a place. Even better scores are needed if you intend to take something different from what you took in poly.
That's for local.
For overseas, it costs even more.
There's no way we can build more universities. Land in Singapore is limited. With aging population, it only serves to worsen situation. Pavements need to widen for wheelchair-bound people, hospitals need to upgrade in terms of size to serve more people.
As for A Levels, it's commonly regarded as a gateway to obtain a university degree. I don't think there's a need to do away with it, because A Levels offer different subjects from polytechnics and ITEs. Since it's a gateway to university, these students will most likely study either similar subjects or they won't. If they do study similar subjects, then their knowledge will help.
IB (currently tested in one school?) could replace A Levels, but the chances of it replacing A Levels entirely is probably zero.
Your second idea is not a bad one, it's very similar to Australia and other western countries. Those are known as community colleges, which will serve as a foundation for universities courses if students don't have the knowledge.
Singapore still has got LAND... 2009 U watch....
since it is a gateway then dun wanna take away??? this is old fashioned... like it or anot... now the industries would recognise poly grads as more value-added to their companies than the pure A levels one... if so... Y NOT?? -
The threadstarter did talk about free education, but till tertiary level. You talked about free education at tertiary level, which obviously didn't tally.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Maybe you should read. The thread starter talked about free education, not subsidised education. So what on earth are you talking about?
I talk about professor pay scales and you talk about uni fees?! -
I must emphasize that no standards should be compromised....
U failed to meet the standards... U get retained... and U serve 1 more yr of National Service... and gov... kinda enough ... will provide U wif another yr of FREE education....
-
ndmmxiaomayi: You do know that a grant is technically not free and it has to be paid back with interest? I won't go as far as call that a subsidy according to the definition.
-
But then... me left out the sports talents.... sports and music talents should start earlier and on different scheme....
then we can nuture our own david beckham here mah.... -
A Levels and diplomas teach different things...Originally posted by sunny6110:gd scores anot can be placed in different classes...
Singapore still has got LAND... 2009 U watch....
since it is a gateway then dun wanna take away??? this is old fashioned... like it or anot... now the industries would recognise poly grads as more value-added to their companies than the pure A levels one... if so... Y NOT??
A Levels focus more on soft skills, poly graduates are taught skills specific to certain industries. When they graduate, an A Level graduate would obviously find himself lost in the world where skills matter. If you put the same graduate in an office environment where all they do is to write report, the A Level graduate will succeed.
On the other hand, a poly graduate will not be so lost. They have the skills, they are employable, thus adding values to companies.
What A Levels graduates lack is the technical expertise, which poly graduates excel in. What a polytechnic graduate lacks is soft skills, which A Levels graduates excel in. Take away either one, I don't think companies will survive till now.
It doesn't make sense to produce a product that nobody understands how to use it. -
Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
Tuition grant here is free as long as you are a local student. Others, no.
ndmmxiaomayi: You do know that a grant is technically not free and it has to be paid back [b]with interest? I won't go as far as call that a subsidy according to the definition.[/b]
Financial assistance schemes to help aren't grants, and they are to be paid back with interests. They aren't grants to me. -
name one soft skills A levels hv and poly lacks???Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:What A Levels graduates lack is the technical expertise, which poly graduates excel in. What a polytechnic graduate lacks is soft skills, which A Levels graduates excel in. Take away either one, I don't think companies will survive till now.
It doesn't make sense to produce a product that nobody understands how to use it.
U are so certain... or u haven met One??
Admit it.... We dun need A levels presently already... It's taking away too much of our precious Time...
A show of Hands those in the working world.... How many of U actually use wat u Learnt during A levels?? -
another advantage is our young citizens are exposed to the real world as early as 16-17 yrs old.... going forward.... degree holders are no longer rare like 10-15 yrs ago... So we need street smart pple... whose brain can move real fast....
unlike presently... our male citizens are only starting to work in the real world at the age of 24(basic degree) after army... by the time they get street smart... they already quite old le... either they get married and lost their drive.... or they remain single and chiong~!! -
You can create enough uni places to ensure everyone has a degree. sure. But will that create more jobs?Originally posted by sunny6110:I mean the priority should be giving free education instead of raising ministers' pay...... Y poly students can't go Uni??? there are not enough places rite?? Y not build more Unis and still can aim to be world class??
our citizens spend so much to study aboard...
Shall we hv a REthink to do away wif the A levels?? Can state a reason Y do we need A levels now?? All should go through poly and if maybe dun like the course of study and can switch during Unis but a longer route of coz la....
Afraid of compromising standards??? Fail Those who can't perform....
The higher end jobs are limited and places will be taken by the best students only. Eventually, those with a lousier degree or honours will still have to do jobs which are less glamarous as compared to the high end jobs. Do you want people wasting their time and money studying for a degree when it is not needed for those jobs?
Next, not everyone has a calibre to enter a university. Either the student will suffer like mad while inside, or the university will end up producing graduates who are not up to the mark.
In the end, you're just raising the bar and the honours degrees will become the "new degrees" and you'll end up coming back here to suggest everyone gets an honours degree.
Why go through all the trouble and waste everyone's time and money? Economics theory of supply and demand will settle everything. -
Not enough jobs??? U meant U dun hv confidence in our multi-million salaried ministers??? The gov wants 6.5 million population... wat makes u tink there aren't enough jobs to go around?Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:You can create enough uni places to ensure everyone has a degree. sure. But will that create more jobs?
The higher end jobs are limited and places will be taken by the best students only. Eventually, those with a lousier degree or honours will still have to do jobs which are less glamarous as compared to the high end jobs. Do you want people wasting their time and money studying for a degree when it is not needed for those jobs?
Next, not everyone has a calibre to enter a university. Either the student will suffer like mad while inside, or the university will end up producing graduates who are not up to the mark.
In the end, you're just raising the bar and the honours degrees will become the "new degrees" and you'll end up coming back here to suggest everyone gets an honours degree.
Why go through all the trouble and waste everyone's time and money? Economics theory of supply and demand will settle everything.
Yes.. I agree the learning process is diff for everyone... those slower ones will hv to spend more years la... I already stated that there will be problem since everyone is a degree holder.... and I agree that I'm raising the bar.... not all countries hv the same standards.... as long as we produce graduates tat are world class... note tat.... after they graduate... they are free to work for whoever they like internationally.....
and Y i suggested start from poly is becoz it's progressive training... slowly more and more workload... an average guy would be able to complete basic degree course...
this is an advantage for the citizens as well... coz if they can't survive here... they can always shift to other countries where their skill sets are in demand... -
Er... the purpose of A' Levels is more for preparation for university rather than actual preparation for specialisation.Originally posted by sunny6110:name one soft skills A levels hv and poly lacks???
U are so certain... or u haven met One??
Admit it.... We dun need A levels presently already... It's taking away too much of our precious Time...
A show of Hands those in the working world.... How many of U actually use wat u Learnt during A levels??
The University could teach the stuff but well, we follow the brits in that regard. -
Do you guys have any idea how much it costs in exam fees to take the "O" levels????
-
"Ask not what your country can give to you but what you can give to your country" - John F Kennedy
-
"Ask why your country is taking away your money and investing it in SHIN CORPS; dream on if you think that your dictators will give you anything out of their own pockets" - Andrew PK YapOriginally posted by :"Ask not what your country can give to you but what you can give to your country" - John F Kennedy 
-
Use your blain lah: If education is free all the way to tertiary-level for S'poreans, than there'll be a lot more people going to Uni, than Polys. Then, all those middle-level jobs that are currently filled by poly-grads will be shunned by uni-grads. So, who'll be our technicians and all those similar jobs currently filled by poly grads?
-
Yes free Education for everyone is desirable.. Who can argue against that? But free education doesnt come from Nature in unlimited amounts, it is a man made value, hence WHO will be the ones providing this kind of service and for free? Surely a group of people's efforts and resources will have to be sacrificed.. In the end ultimately all that this free education thing will do is to violate more and more human rights.. Thats why i'm against this..
And maybe the government has the wisdom to see this and hence provide subsidies at best -
FTs at low-mid end jobs... and those supposed to be on "National Service" including girls... Singaporeans do mid-High end management, decision-making , R&D jobs etc....Originally posted by blueheeler:Use your blain lah: If education is free all the way to tertiary-level for S'poreans, than there'll be a lot more people going to Uni, than Polys. Then, all those middle-level jobs that are currently filled by poly-grads will be shunned by uni-grads. So, who'll be our technicians and all those similar jobs currently filled by poly grads?
if u follow the norms... u r NOT using ur brain~! -
yup true, no free lunch in the world. u gotta pay for education =) if nt ppl would nt take it seriously and there goes our only resource.