Replace Singapore ministers with those from New Zealand?
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Why must be from Kiwiland? Jux because population size is about the same doesn't provide a compelling reason leh..........
No need from NZ. Anywhere will do as long can perform & not always clamouring for pay rise can liao. Timbuktu oso welcome....... Singapore cosmopolitant city ma..........
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I totally agree with this. Corruption isnt measured by salaries. Maybe in certain countries where the ministers are really UNDER paid will they tend to succumb to corruption. However, i am damn sure that our ministars are well paid as seen from the figures TS has provided us.Originally posted by kilua:Taken from ST
If we need to continuously pay the leedar more ever higher salary so that they do not succumb to corruption, the leaders have no integrity. You mean if we dont increase the pay from 1.2 million to 2.2 million, these ministars would turn corrupt?
Thus, corruption is really measured by the individual's integrity and if he posesess any greed in him. What makes you think that if increasing the salaries of the ministars to 2.2mil will ensure them to be free from corruption? Wont there come a time when they feel that 2.2mil might not be enough?
My 2cents worth... -
Noticed the bunch of jokers up there have been quiet for a while?
Think they must have gotten lots of flak from the public ever since they said they wanted pay increase.
Now quiet quiet, don't dare to open mouth.
Only question is, will they shelve this stupid idea up their mouths, or will they just implement and ignore us? -
I noticed something in this thread also.
Nobody took a stand FOR the government. why? Are Singaporeans generally unhappy? -
Originally posted by freestyle:
why? Coz the PAP usually hides when they are getting flak.
I noticed something in this thread also.
Nobody took a stand [b]FOR the government. why? Are Singaporeans generally unhappy?[/b]
Most of them hide in the young PAP forum. If you go there with all these attacks on them, they probably will ban you -
They r a bunch of dogs but they r some here post 2 make $!!!Originally posted by soul_rage:why? Coz the PAP usually hides when they are getting flak.
Most of them hide in the young PAP forum. If you go there with all these attacks on them, they probably will ban you -
get the nzs here..
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New Zealand has a land area of 268,680 square km, Singapore has 697 square km.
Blessed with abundant natural resources, New Zealand earns its export revenue from agriculture, horticulture, fishing and forestry. Singapore has no natural resources at all, having to import even water and fuel.
New Zealand has never been invaded and its geographical location and political alliances translate into very modest defence needs. It does not even have an air force to maintain, completely relying on Australia for air defence. Singapore is located in a restive region with politically unstable but numerically stronger neighbours (can we rely on China for our defence needs?). New Zealand's defence spending is 1.1 billion, Singapore spends $5.6 billion (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm)
New Zealand is prosperous, with a per capita GDP of USD$26,000. Despite its many limitations and the complete lack of natural resources, Singapore has a per capita GDP of USD$30,900.
Is it easier to govern New Zealand or Singapore? Need I say more?
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This type of comparison hides many of the subtleties each countries challenges. A quick browse in wikipedia concerning NZ will show you that being "blessed" with natural resources does not mean there is less governance required. The fact that they are highly dependent on commodity trade means that the economy is highly reliant on external market conditions. The fact that NZ suffered economically during the various oil crises reflect the need for active management of the country by its officials despite having natural resources. Reflecting on basic secondary geography will remind one of the importance of active management of agricultural policies - from which many of our economics perspective are molded.
Singapore vis a vis NZ has the "fortune" of being located at the cross roads of major shipping and trading routes. NZ is basically "isolated" from most trading routes and have to develop that aspect of their economy. Like many developed countries, NZ and Singapore also suffer from brain drain, esp. NZ is so close to Australia and have close affinity to the US. Likewise, they are developing their educational sector and other knowledge based sectors e.g. movie making. In fact, they have been very successful in attracting Chinese nationals to their country for education and movie making has been taking off - witness the Lord of the Ring phenomenon. We can't actually say much for our digital movie animation blah blah efforts. I know cos I was working in that industry for five years. As for education, we do have an edge in terms of accessibility and our diverse society...but then, how that will fare in the future is still uncertain given the competition from M;sia and other neighboring countries.
Politically and culturally, there are tensions among its native Maori and european settlers. This type of situation is similar to our case of racial tensions. Although NZ is in a comparatively safer environment, it's geopolitical issues may not be less complicated given its close ties to the US and Australia foreign policies.
In short, the seemingly rhetorical question of which to govern is not as rhetorical as it seems. Instead, each country has its challenges and that the job of governing is never easy and does not lend itself to be easily compared. For one badly stated comparison, one can come up with a dozen other for e.g. the US, Sweden, Norway etc. At the end, it is not so much as comparing with others, but whether the policies make sense in our current context where there is a widening wage/income/lifestyle gap, "challenging" economic conditions, rising basic costs etc. Besides setting up policies that assist the rest of the people, ministers are held accountable to higher moral criteria e.g. curtailing their own wages in view of the hardship faced by their fellow country men. Doing any less than that simply garners justifiable criticisms from the people who they claim they represent.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:New Zealand has a land area of 268,680 square km, Singapore has 697 square km.
Blessed with abundant natural resources, New Zealand earns its export revenue from agriculture, horticulture, fishing and forestry. Singapore has no natural resources at all, having to import even water and fuel.
New Zealand has never been invaded and its geographical location and political alliances translate into very modest defence needs. It does not even have an air force to maintain, completely relying on Australia for air defence. Singapore is located in a restive region with politically unstable but numerically stronger neighbours (can we rely on China for our defence needs?). New Zealand's defence spending is 1.1 billion, Singapore spends $5.6 billion (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm)
New Zealand is prosperous, with a per capita GDP of USD$26,000. Despite its many limitations and the complete lack of natural resources, Singapore has a per capita GDP of USD$30,900.
Is it easier to govern New Zealand or Singapore? Need I say more? -
No need to explain to that mushroom post. He is one of the PAP dog coming to Sg forum to attack us....Originally posted by vaxjunior:This type of comparison hides many of the subtleties each countries challenges. A quick browse in wikipedia concerning NZ will show you that being "blessed" with natural resources does not mean there is less governance required. The fact that they are highly dependent on commodity trade means that the economy is highly reliant on external market conditions. The fact that NZ suffered economically during the various oil crises reflect the need for active management of the country by its officials despite having natural resources. Reflecting on basic secondary geography will remind one of the importance of active management of agricultural policies - from which many of our economics perspective are molded.
Singapore vis a vis NZ has the "fortune" of being located at the cross roads of major shipping and trading routes. NZ is basically "isolated" from most trading routes and have to develop that aspect of their economy. Like many developed countries, NZ and Singapore also suffer from brain drain, esp. NZ is so close to Australia and have close affinity to the US. Likewise, they are developing their educational sector and other knowledge based sectors e.g. movie making. In fact, they have been very successful in attracting Chinese nationals to their country for education and movie making has been taking off - witness the Lord of the Ring phenomenon. We can't actually say much for our digital movie animation blah blah efforts. I know cos I was working in that industry for five years. As for education, we do have an edge in terms of accessibility and our diverse society...but then, how that will fare in the future is still uncertain given the competition from M;sia and other neighboring countries.
Politically and culturally, there are tensions among its native Maori and european settlers. This type of situation is similar to our case of racial tensions. Although NZ is in a comparatively safer environment, it's geopolitical issues may not be less complicated given its close ties to the US and Australia foreign policies.
In short, the seemingly rhetorical question of which to govern is not as rhetorical as it seems. Instead, each country has its challenges and that the job of governing is never easy and does not lend itself to be easily compared. For one badly stated comparison, one can come up with a dozen other for e.g. the US, Sweden, Norway etc. At the end, it is not so much as comparing with others, but whether the policies make sense in our current context where there is a widening wage/income/lifestyle gap, "challenging" economic conditions, rising basic costs etc. Besides setting up policies that assist the rest of the people, ministers are held accountable to higher moral criteria e.g. curtailing their own wages in view of the hardship faced by their fellow country men. Doing any less than that simply garners justifiable criticisms from the people who they claim they represent.
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You are so bad.Originally posted by zenden9:No need to explain to that mushroom post. He is one of the PAP dog coming to Sg forum to attack us.... -
+1.Originally posted by zenden9:No need to explain to that mushroom post. He is one of the PAP dog coming to Sg forum to attack us....
why he wants 2 be a dog?? than a human being???? -
Pls don't do personal and demeaning attacks like that.Originally posted by zenden9:No need to explain to that mushroom post. He is one of the PAP dog coming to Sg forum to attack us....
The young PAP are already making comments like us being envious and thus are complaining so much about the pay increase.
Don't behave like them, otherwise what difference does that make you and them.
Address the issues at hand objectively, and pls refrain from personal attacks -
Don't u know nowadays domestic dog life is much better than human one?Originally posted by foomwee88:+1.
why he wants 2 be a dog?? than a human being????
But I rather be a man with pride,intergrity and justice than an obedient dog...... -
Fully agreed with u!!!Originally posted by zenden9:Don't u know nowadays domestic dog life is much better than human one?
But I rather be a man with pride,intergrity and justice than an obedient dog......
Good point!!!!!
They r hopeless n useless dogs!!!!!just know how to lick the legs!!!! -
May be sometimes!!!!!!!!licking my__________ -
Is it easier to govern New Zealand or Singapore? Need I say more?
Come on; please give some credit to the NZ ministers la. Lots of countries have lots of natural resources, but they still down in the dumps, right? [/b]
Yes, to be fair also, our Ministers past and present have done a good job. But they must realise there there should be some monetary sacrifice when they joined public service, and not lament how-much-more-we-could-be-earning-at-a-Temasek-holding-company....... -
Personally, I feel that running Singapore is much easier than running other countries.
Look at it this way.
When they want to increase GST (GST is to help the poor) or ERP (ERP is to control traffic congestion, yeah right ), what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead with it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to build grand casinoes instead of helping the poor, what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to import more and more foreigners into the country instead of looking after the interests of Singaporeans, what happens? Despite all the reservations and objections from Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
Ultimately, whatever they want to do, they do. Who is to stop them?
With the huge amount of reserves saved up through the decades from the efforts of all Singaporeans, who can stop them from using these reserves for whatever projects or investments that they want, however ridiculous. Singaporeans can object or complain all they want, but they still do it.
If everything can be done so easily without any checks and balances, would you even consider this a tough job?
Come on, get real. -
Singapore government uses propagenda very strongly.Originally posted by charlize:Personally, I feel that running Singapore is much easier than running other countries.
Look at it this way.
When they want to increase GST (GST is to help the poor) or ERP (ERP is to control traffic congestion, yeah right ), what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead with it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to build grand casinoes instead of helping the poor, what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to import more and more foreigners into the country instead of looking after the interests of Singaporeans, what happens? Despite all the reservations and objections from Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
Ultimately, whatever they want to do, they do. Who is to stop them?
With the huge amount of reserves saved up through the decades from the efforts of all Singaporeans, who can stop them from using these reserves for whatever projects or investments that they want, however ridiculous. Singaporeans can object or complain all they want, but they still do it.
If everything can be done so easily without any checks and balances, would you even consider this a tough job?
Come on, get real.
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It's definitely much easier to gov a tiny dot of 697 sq km than a land mass of 268,680 sq km!Originally posted by charlize:Personally, I feel that running Singapore is much easier than running other countries.
Should anybody has any doubt just remember what the Suzhou local govt told our SIP officials, "mountains are high, the emperor is far" -
hey, the raison d'etre is no longer to prevent corruption but to retain talent!Originally posted by blueheeler:SÂ’poreÂ’s PM Lee and other ministers have used the argument that they need to be paid closer to S$2,200,000 per year so as to keep corruption at bay. -
no single solutions and certainly no need to attack young PAP, why trash their hope, allow them to work with their limited view I am sure they still are with good intention.
it is easier to gov New zealand than Singapore that is no doubt about it. The natural endowment will be self sufficient. They may not be the riches in the world but they certainly are not going to go hungry.
Remember SAR!! our Vegetable price gone up overnight. -
I really wonder if our 'young PAP' are truly the hands behind the keyboard typing those a s s-kissing posts.Originally posted by soul_rage:Pls don't do personal and demeaning attacks like that.
The young PAP are already making comments like us being envious and thus are complaining so much about the pay increase.
Don't behave like them, otherwise what difference does that make you and them.
Address the issues at hand objectively, and pls refrain from personal attacks
If so, either their 'England meets powderful', or we have really given our country to the brainless masses, who believe that we common folk exist because they pay taxes. -
I wonder, since corruption is as old as time, what motivatied our earlier ministers, the Old Guard, to slog and do their best for our nation since they were certainly not as highly paid as the corrent administration? Do we not have this type of people around anymore? Must everything be tied to a big fat $$ value?
I am not disputing that we need to pay our leaders well, but what defines "well"? -
You forgot to add that our Govt also have one solution to all problems - take from the people.Originally posted by charlize:Personally, I feel that running Singapore is much easier than running other countries.
Look at it this way.
When they want to increase GST (GST is to help the poor) or ERP (ERP is to control traffic congestion, yeah right ), what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead with it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to build grand casinoes instead of helping the poor, what happens? Despite all the objections and protests by Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
When they want to import more and more foreigners into the country instead of looking after the interests of Singaporeans, what happens? Despite all the reservations and objections from Singaporeans, they still go ahead and do it. Nobody can stop them.
Ultimately, whatever they want to do, they do. Who is to stop them?
With the huge amount of reserves saved up through the decades from the efforts of all Singaporeans, who can stop them from using these reserves for whatever projects or investments that they want, however ridiculous. Singaporeans can object or complain all they want, but they still do it.
If everything can be done so easily without any checks and balances, would you even consider this a tough job?
Come on, get real.
How to attract foreign investments? Cut employee's CPF
How to stay competitive? Cut employee's pay
How to reduce traffic? Increase ERP
How to pay the ministers more money? Increase GST
The people is Singapore's bottomless natural resource and single solution to all the Govt's problem. So easy to Govt.
Ever wonder why we need 6.5 million people? More resources to tap from.