YoungPAP - U all juz JEALOUS
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can I bring this information to you guys before we get too stuck in the question on the pay-rise of ministers?
We are only focusing on the pay-increase they are trying to push thru (1.2m to 2.2m). This does NOT include bonuses
We are NOT LOOKING at the bonuses. Read somewhere that their bonus is 6 months' MINIMUM, regardless of performance.
THEREFORE, raising their pay to 2.2m is NOT JUST a 1m difference. If you include their bonuses (which is paid based on their monthly salary), its MUCH MORE.
And by the way, just to answer that silly lawyer. I am not envious, I just think they are NOT WORTH THAT MUCH, and they DON'T DESERVE it. So far, I don't know what achievements this current batch of jokers have made for this country. In fact, I struggle to think of what good they have done. -
the road sweeper also deserves a pay rise.
if you think the road sweeper doesnt deserve it, then you should sweep the road on your own.
nice argument?
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nice..Originally posted by dragg:the road sweeper also deserves a pay rise.
if you think the road sweeper doesnt deserve it, then you should sweep the road on your own.
nice argument? -
okay ... this chap can quit the party now ....
cos he sure as hell won't get to become an MP now ... -
Every time when they talk about their salary, this interview with David Marshall, back in 1994, always appear in my mind:
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...And are youths the miasma of apathetic subservience to authority? But you say to yourselves, “Well, you know, what do we seek in life? We seek a rice bowl, full!”
It is full and overflowing, in fact. They serve you your rice in a jade bowl with golden chopsticks; not that it makes much difference to the taste of the rice. But youÂ’re empty!
YouÂ’ve got technocratic skills and you are seeking more but internally you are empty. Money is your acid test of success.
IÂ’ve got nothing against money. IÂ’d like to have money myself! IÂ’d like to have a house and a garden and dogs and a car and a chauffeur but, look, IÂ’ve got a flat. IÂ’ve got a swimming pool attached to the flat. IÂ’ve not even got a car but I use taxis. I have a dignified way of life without being wealthy.
I donÂ’t see the necessity of owning a Mercedes-Benz and a swimming pool and a couple of mistresses. I think weÂ’ve got our values all wrong.
You know $96,000 a month for a Prime Minister and $60,000 a month for a minister. What the hell do you do with all that money? You canÂ’t eat it! What do you do with it? Your children donÂ’t need all that money.
My children have had the best of education. In fact, IÂ’m very proud of them. One of them is a senior registrar to two major hospitals in Oxford. Another of them is a consultant in European law to the Securities and Investment Board in the United Kingdom. TheyÂ’ve had their education. There are no complaints.
I never earned $60,000 a month or $90,000 a month. When I was Chief Minister, I earned $8,000 a month. Look, what is happening today is we are encouraged to and are becoming worshippers of the Golden Calf.
We have lost sight of the joy and excitement of public service, helping our fellow men. The joy and excitement of seeking and understanding of the joy of the miracle of the living the duty and the grandeur. We have lost taste for heroic action in the service of our people.
We have become good bourgeois seeking comfort, security. ItÂ’s like seeking a crystal coffin and being fed by intravenous injections through pipes in the crystal coffin; crystal coffins stuck with certificates of your pragmatic abilities.
What has changed?
The self-confidence of our people has grown immensely, and that is good to see. Our pragmatic abilities have grown magnificently, and that is good to see. Very good to see!
You are very able. YouÂ’re ambitious, and the government has heroic plans for the future. It hasnÂ’t finished.
I take off my hat to the pragmatic ability of our government but there is no soul in our conduct. It is a difficult thing to speak of because it is difficult to put in a computer, and the youth of Singapore is accustomed to computer fault. There is no longer the intellectual ferment, the passionate argument for a better civilisation. The emphasis on the rice bowl!
Tell me IÂ’m wrong, come on.
*** And to the lawyer:
Qn: WHAT WOULD YOU TELL YOUTHS WHO INTEND TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW?
Try and understand that the law is a vocation and not a business. Respect your client irrespective of the fees. I used to charge $1 for a murder case if he was Malay because he had no money. I used to charge $1 to trade unions; all Malay unions, I charged $1 a year. And the $1 is simply because, if you do it for nothing, you are not liable in negligence whereas $1 makes a contract and, if you are negligent, they can sue you.
IÂ’d like them to also understand that justice is a meld of law and humanity. Law and humanity; decency in concepts; if we administer law by the soulless logic of the computer, we arenÂ’t on our road to progress....
Meeting David Marshall in 1994
Cheers -
You see, this is how to debate and try to crush their critics. They start first by taking the moral high ground and then portray themselves as defenders of civilization. Not much more different from what the Roman Emperors and the Senate was back then.
Then next they attempt to use ad Hominen attacks to reduce the credibility of their opponents, while publicising their own and telling the public to trust them since they are the ones with credibility.
Unfortunately sheep do not think and hence you have the problem of Singapore. Alas, this is reflective of the world as a whole, and just that we are saddled with a system with very little room for change. -
They add value to society by keeping our roads clean and green.Originally posted by dragg:the road sweeper also deserves a pay rise.
if you think the road sweeper doesnt deserve it, then you should sweep the road on your own.
nice argument? 
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I think the people in URA need a pay rise, thanks to them, I can flip 2 of my units at the Sail@Marina Bay for a nice price.
And if the URA manage to revitalise the Punggol area, they deserve another pay rise -
[/b]Makes me weep and pine for people like that to run Singapore. How did we end up with greedy dictators running our country?Originally posted by Yunhaier: Every time when they talk about their salary, this interview with David Marshall, back in 1994, always appear in my mind:
***
...And are youths the miasma of apathetic subservience to authority? But you say to yourselves, “Well, you know, what do we seek in life? We seek a rice bowl, full!”
It is full and overflowing, in fact. They serve you your rice in a jade bowl with golden chopsticks; not that it makes much difference to the taste of the rice. But youÂ’re empty!
YouÂ’ve got technocratic skills and you are seeking more but internally you are empty. Money is your acid test of success.
IÂ’ve got nothing against money. IÂ’d like to have money myself! IÂ’d like to have a house and a garden and dogs and a car and a chauffeur but, look, IÂ’ve got a flat. IÂ’ve got a swimming pool attached to the flat. IÂ’ve not even got a car but I use taxis. I have a dignified way of life without being wealthy.
I donÂ’t see the necessity of owning a Mercedes-Benz and a swimming pool and a couple of mistresses. I think weÂ’ve got our values all wrong.
You know $96,000 a month for a Prime Minister and $60,000 a month for a minister. What the hell do you do with all that money? You canÂ’t eat it! What do you do with it? Your children donÂ’t need all that money.
My children have had the best of education. In fact, IÂ’m very proud of them. One of them is a senior registrar to two major hospitals in Oxford. Another of them is a consultant in European law to the Securities and Investment Board in the United Kingdom. TheyÂ’ve had their education. There are no complaints.
I never earned $60,000 a month or $90,000 a month. When I was Chief Minister, I earned $8,000 a month. Look, what is happening today is we are encouraged to and are becoming worshippers of the Golden Calf.
We have lost sight of the joy and excitement of public service, helping our fellow men. The joy and excitement of seeking and understanding of the joy of the miracle of the living the duty and the grandeur. We have lost taste for heroic action in the service of our people.
We have become good bourgeois seeking comfort, security. ItÂ’s like seeking a crystal coffin and being fed by intravenous injections through pipes in the crystal coffin; crystal coffins stuck with certificates of your pragmatic abilities.
What has changed?
The self-confidence of our people has grown immensely, and that is good to see. Our pragmatic abilities have grown magnificently, and that is good to see. Very good to see!
You are very able. YouÂ’re ambitious, and the government has heroic plans for the future. It hasnÂ’t finished.
I take off my hat to the pragmatic ability of our government but there is no soul in our conduct. It is a difficult thing to speak of because it is difficult to put in a computer, and the youth of Singapore is accustomed to computer fault. There is no longer the intellectual ferment, the passionate argument for a better civilisation. The emphasis on the rice bowl!
Tell me IÂ’m wrong, come on.
*** And to the lawyer:
Qn: WHAT WOULD YOU TELL YOUTHS WHO INTEND TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW?
Try and understand that the law is a vocation and not a business. Respect your client irrespective of the fees. I used to charge $1 for a murder case if he was Malay because he had no money. I used to charge $1 to trade unions; all Malay unions, I charged $1 a year. And the $1 is simply because, if you do it for nothing, you are not liable in negligence whereas $1 makes a contract and, if you are negligent, they can sue you.
IÂ’d like them to also understand that justice is a meld of law and humanity. Law and humanity; decency in concepts; if we administer law by the soulless logic of the computer, we arenÂ’t on our road to progress....
Meeting David Marshall in 1994
Cheers -
Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
Funny you should mention that. Until Claudius came along, lawyers in ancient Rome were barred from accepting fees for their services. Yet, here we have a snake-oil salesman trying to justify his blood money.
[b]Not much more different from what the Roman Emperors and the Senate was back then. -
double post
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no comment. =X
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All you need is one reason for the silent majority to hedge that bet that they have been itching deep inside to make.
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notice the govt has gone into hiding since they got whacked left right centre?
no news of pay increase for a while already -
Come to think of that, road sweepers & those poor elderlys collecting cardboxes, cans, & rubbishes shld really get a pay rise...
They keep our country clean.
Visitors praised 'pore for its cleanniness.
Shldn't these ppl get a pay rise as they're putting their efforts, using their hands & feet to work, regardless of rain(damn rain heavy lor) or shine (Damn hot lor, the weather)...They're the ones keeping our country clean, i say again....they dun keep the country clean by just talking....
How many ministers do we actually have?
Say, erm....100?
1 = S$1.2mil
100 = S$120mil
If each can donate S$0.2mil to charity, that'll be S$ 20mil from our ministers. I'll be very proud of them.
I don't mind donating S$ 0.2mil if i've S$1.2mil yearly...
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They maybe decided to do a Wag the Dog. Durai has decided to flee the country.Originally posted by soul_rage:notice the govt has gone into hiding since they got whacked left right centre?
no news of pay increase for a while already -
Originally posted by Yunhaier:
Erm.. $8000 a month in those days in the 50's when he was Chief Minister.
Every time when they talk about their salary, this interview with David Marshall, back in 1994, always appear in my mind:
***
...And are youths the miasma of apathetic subservience to authority? But you say to yourselves, “Well, you know, what do we seek in life? We seek a rice bowl, full!”
It is full and overflowing, in fact. They serve you your rice in a jade bowl with golden chopsticks; not that it makes much difference to the taste of the rice. But youÂ’re empty!
YouÂ’ve got technocratic skills and you are seeking more but internally you are empty. Money is your acid test of success.
IÂ’ve got nothing against money. IÂ’d like to have money myself! IÂ’d like to have a house and a garden and dogs and a car and a chauffeur but, look, IÂ’ve got a flat. IÂ’ve got a swimming pool attached to the flat. IÂ’ve not even got a car but I use taxis. I have a dignified way of life without being wealthy.
I donÂ’t see the necessity of owning a Mercedes-Benz and a swimming pool and a couple of mistresses. I think weÂ’ve got our values all wrong.
You know $96,000 a month for a Prime Minister and $60,000 a month for a minister. What the hell do you do with all that money? You canÂ’t eat it! What do you do with it? Your children donÂ’t need all that money.
My children have had the best of education. In fact, IÂ’m very proud of them. One of them is a senior registrar to two major hospitals in Oxford. Another of them is a consultant in European law to the Securities and Investment Board in the United Kingdom. TheyÂ’ve had their education. There are no complaints.
I never earned $60,000 a month or $90,000 a month. When I was Chief Minister, I earned $8,000 a month. Look, what is happening today is we are encouraged to and are becoming worshippers of the Golden Calf.
We have lost sight of the joy and excitement of public service, helping our fellow men. The joy and excitement of seeking and understanding of the joy of the miracle of the living the duty and the grandeur. We have lost taste for heroic action in the service of our people.
We have become good bourgeois seeking comfort, security. ItÂ’s like seeking a crystal coffin and being fed by intravenous injections through pipes in the crystal coffin; crystal coffins stuck with certificates of your pragmatic abilities.
What has changed?
The self-confidence of our people has grown immensely, and that is good to see. Our pragmatic abilities have grown magnificently, and that is good to see. Very good to see!
You are very able. YouÂ’re ambitious, and the government has heroic plans for the future. It hasnÂ’t finished.
I take off my hat to the pragmatic ability of our government but there is no soul in our conduct. It is a difficult thing to speak of because it is difficult to put in a computer, and the youth of Singapore is accustomed to computer fault. There is no longer the intellectual ferment, the passionate argument for a better civilisation. The emphasis on the rice bowl!
Tell me IÂ’m wrong, come on.
*** And to the lawyer:
[b]Qn: WHAT WOULD YOU TELL YOUTHS WHO INTEND TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW?
Try and understand that the law is a vocation and not a business. Respect your client irrespective of the fees. I used to charge $1 for a murder case if he was Malay because he had no money. I used to charge $1 to trade unions; all Malay unions, I charged $1 a year. And the $1 is simply because, if you do it for nothing, you are not liable in negligence whereas $1 makes a contract and, if you are negligent, they can sue you.
IÂ’d like them to also understand that justice is a meld of law and humanity. Law and humanity; decency in concepts; if we administer law by the soulless logic of the computer, we arenÂ’t on our road to progress....
Meeting David Marshall in 1994
Cheers[/b]
And he was comparing to the current wages for the govt?
Isnt it is a very high pay when during those times a bowl of noodles is only in cents? And everything is cheaper then and life much easier.
I find it contradicting.. can anyone enlighten?
Anyway i do feel the ministers are earning alot.. i agree with his ideas.
IF i were to become a Member of Parliament holding a govt position, it is my honour to serve my country and i will reject high pay, just need a token of appreciation. Just enough to keep my family living in comfort without any extravangrant spending. -
Seriously u will reject the high pay if u are minister? u must be joking.
Well as we all know, Singapore Government = PAP and Singapore government has huge influence over the court (Government chooses the Chief of Justice if I am not wrong). At least we never seen a case where the Court ruled against the Government (dun tell me the Government is always right).
Wat can we all do? Whining on the forum only. Maybe next time they will ban the criticism of government online by law...
[should I remove this post? I abit worried I be sued
] -
When the ministers pay hike was announced, not even a single soul from the parliament openly rejected the pay hike, everybody in there just gladly accepted it!!! All are pieces of s_h_i_t_s that the S'poreans can do without with!!!
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LOL. I go post in STOMP. LOL.
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So what's the use of the Opposition Party MPs?Originally posted by Spirit of Fire:When the ministers pay hike was announced, not even a single soul from the parliament openly rejected the pay hike, everybody in there just gladly accepted it!!! All are pieces of s_h_i_t_s that the S'poreans can do without with!!! -
And what can they possibly do? I say abolish parliament! Let's give up the charade anyway. What is the point of a parliament that is a rubber stamp for the Govt! Abolish Democracy while we are at it!Originally posted by oxford mushroom:So what's the use of the Opposition Party MPs? -
For some reason, 33.4% of the voters are represented by 3% in parliment.
Hmm...
Of course we are not even counting those dudes who didn't have a chance to vote. -
Dont they received pay as a MP? I think our govt do pay them right?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:And what can they possibly do? I say abolish parliament! Let's give up the charade anyway. What is the point of a parliament that is a rubber stamp for the Govt! Abolish Democracy while we are at it!
Can anyone explain about David Marshall words?