hallo, malaysia got NS liaoOriginally posted by ichi87:haha
i think if we are still wif Malaysia
1. We will still be chewing gums??
2. We will not be celebrating the winning of Tiger Cup??
3. All chinese will gather at Genting??
4. We will never need to use NEWater again??
5. We do not need to buy sand from Indonesia to reclaim as much land as possible??
6. There will not be any National Service??
haha
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Both of us have already crash before on more or less the same topic. U were unable to support your case of how the Govt is 'Overcharging' you in HDB.......
Originally posted by hloc:
Are you say the Malaysia goventment is free from corruption, Cronizim.... etc Because I think their Anti-Corruption unit is ITSELF under investation for Corruption......
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So this is your explanation why "corruption, Cronizim.... etc " should allowed in Singapore?
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Originally posted by hloc:
Sorry..... debt is saddle by oneself. Instead of buying a car, super big HDB, mutli Credit Cards.... etc. One could always live within one's means. [b]''Suit Your lifestyle To Your Salary... Not The Other Way Around''
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Blame the people and ignore the fact that they are overcharging HDB state land costs.[color=blue](which should be free for Singaporeans, since it is land that belongs to Singaporeans and is 99 years lease only) and COE (instead of balloting), raise GST so that they can use the money to pay themselves million dollars salaries that they still think is too little... and take Singaporeans hard earned money to give to Thai people...
To be more specific, Dr M could have meant it was a loss for the MALAYS of Singapore. Period.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Mahathir could have meant it was a loss for the people of Singapore; not a loss for the P*P
You could be right.....Originally posted by anonymouscoward:To be more specific, Dr M could have meant it was a loss for the MALAYS of Singapore. Period.
But their NS is a jokeOriginally posted by Kenashi:hallo, malaysia got NS liao![]()
they thought of extending it to two yrs to match us lohOriginally posted by Rock^Star:But their NS is a joke. More like a holiday chalet and getting to know more handsome boys and pretty girls.
Is it? That's a very heavy drain on their resources.Originally posted by Kenashi:they thought of extending it to two yrs to match us loh
i think it will toughen them up with two years of wacking![]()
forgive and forget is not easyOriginally posted by cyrusv2:why people always try to stir up nationalistic feeling. the T.S should not have talk about things like this malaysia cannot survive without singapore and singapore cannot survive without malaysia we are good neighbours and we should just forgive and forget.
Dont skew the thinking of that timeOriginally posted by Atobe:[/color]
There were 624,000 adult Singaporeans being eligible for this Referendum, which was made compulsory by Law, resulting in a voter turnout of 561,000 - which was approximately 90 percent turnout.
Considering that the 1962 Singapore Population of 1,750,000, this was a remarkable achievement in political conciousness of Singaporeans in the early Political History of Singapore - compared to the participation of Singaporeans in 2006 Elections, when our population is 4.5 Million.
Without any option to reject Merger, the entire exercise of Merger seems to be a foregone conclusion, with the choice merely that to select the Terms and Conditions of Merger - with Option A being the OBVIOUS CHOICE.
Was it oil alone that allowed Brunei to stay out of the merger, or was it the political implication of the Brunei Sultan losing his own Royal autonomy in deference to the 11 Royalties in the then Federation of Malaya ?
As much as Brunei was subjected to the threats of larger neighbors - (which actually reared its ugly head when Brunei's indigeneous Malay Political Party was instigated and funded by Indonesia to topple the Brunei Sultan) - it remained steadfast in its decision not to merge, but to live with British protection.
Why did Singapore not consider the same option then, when since its founding in 1819, Singapore was seen and planned - by Sir Stamford Raffles - to be the regional center of economic and entrepot trade ?
Could the reason for the insistence by LKY to merge with Malaysia due to his lack in confidence for Singapore to go it alone, which will be quite revealing to his ability that he did not have the same political calculation and economic vision as that of Sir Stamford Raffles ? (This view was contradicted when his vision was implemented vigorously after Singapore was ejected from Malaysia).
Or did LKY set his eyes on a bigger political pie by using Singapore as a "Trojan Horse" to gain himself a place in the larger Political Stage of Malaysia ?
The Malay Politicians have never stopped being suspicious of LKY, and feared his logic in argument and his linguistic abilities in local dialects - a mastery of both would have allowed LKY to challenge UMNO's supremacy in leading their Malay constituency in every Malayan State.
Did Indonesia and Philippines feared the creation of Malaysia ?
Or did the creation of Malaysia resulted in an inconvenient spanner being placed in Indonesia's President Surkano's own plan of a Malay Empire across the entire South-east Asian Archipalego, resulting in his conclusion that Malaysia was a Colonial Plan to perpetuate the British Colonial influence over the land that it has dominated for over 100 years ?
Philippines had a historical claim over a large portion of Sabah through the old Malay Sultanate - unfortunately, this claim is flimsy at best.
For better or for worse, Singaporeans have been burdened by the many decisions based on the domineering views from the POWER OF ONE. With regards to the ambivalent Singapore-Malaysia relationship, it will unfortunately be the political baggage that Singaporean will have to bear until the first generational leaders fade from the memories of those directly involved as Politicians and Citizens.
is there handsome boy or pretty girls over there in malaysia?Originally posted by Rock^Star:But their NS is a joke. More like a holiday chalet and getting to know more handsome boys and pretty girls.
no lah, the chinese will become clerks or driver niaOriginally posted by Rock^Star:Is it? That's a very heavy drain on their resources.
Can't imagine them letting the Chinese handle their weapons and machines.
Originally posted by Urroh:Was the thinking of that time skewed in my post ?
Dont skew the thinking of that timeIt is generally recognaised that Singapore will merge with malaysia. It is the consensus among all people in Singapore with the knowledge of Singapore and Malaysia will never be apart.
At that TIME!
History had been linked with them for thousands of years so the thinking is not of whether we must join them or not. The 1962_Merger_Referendum_of_Singapore is to decided on the terms of us joining into Malaysia on what favourable terms. It is never meant to used as a vote in which to yes or no in joining.
We are interlinked by families, relationships and friends from these two countries till now. With links back long long time ago. With common economic sahring. Although it cant work out.. but that was what it meant to be then.
Go back and ask the older generation. Dun be mislead. look at the facts.![]()
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Originally posted by Atobe:As we had no hinterland to rely on, small economy, mostly reliant on trading. High umemployment, social unrest. We had to be entered into Malaysia on their terms with some degree of autonomy. This is inside the history of modern Singapore. What do you expect? Sink without raw materials/ unfriendly neighbours??
Was the thinking of that time skewed in my post ?
If the consensus among all people in Singapore is that Singapore and Malaysia will never be apart - at that time, why was there a deep concern amongst certain sectors of the Singapore Community about the status of being equal citizens in a unified Malaysia ?
From the business community at that time, with their first hand experience and knowledge of business dealings in Peninsular Malaya that require the complex patronage arangements with the Malay Rulers and Politician, there were already early concerns of the greedy demands that will be placed on Singapore.
The opposition towards merger with Malaysia was large enough to cause a deep division in the PAP, causing its members to walk out to form the Barisan Sosialist - taking with it a sizeable support of the Trade Unions representing the Singaporean work force that the PAP need when it had originally allied itself with these Socialists to get their support.
If LKY had been confident of an overwhelming sweep towards merger with Malaysia, why was there no option for Singaporeans to put in a [b]"NO" VOTE in the Referendum ?
As matters bore itself out, LKY wrote in his memoirs that - when they landed in Kuala Lumpur after returning from signing the merger agreement in London - he was shocked to hear the first words from Tunku Abdul Rahman :
"Satu Bangsar, Satu Bahasa, Satu Negara" - "One Race, One Language, One Nation".
This ominous cry was the setting which Singapore signed itself into, as LKY did not understand and underestimated the depths of the Malay mind in his early years in local politics; after returning from Cambridge and not knowing any local dialects, let alone enough about the Malay language to understand the Malay political aspirations.
LKY's dream ( "ambition" ) was to have Singapore independent as part of Malaya, while Tunku and his Malay Political Community had only intended for their own political revival without the other races being included.
The larger Singaporean community - especially those in business in Peninsular Malaya, and who have daily dealings with the Malays Rulers and Politicians in Peninsular Malaya knew better, but in the eyes of LKY, these were uneducated or Chinese educated money grubbers and were not seen to be politically qualified - incomparable to his Cambridge qualifications.
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Malaysia ex-PM Dr Mahathir made a speech in Johor yesterday and said that “if Singapore had been mostly populated by Malays, there might not have been a secessionJust a sorry sad old man (Mr M) waiting to go to never neverland ! Too free - keep thinking of all the "if" .....
Originally posted by nanren4ever:I agree lah..
Its Spore's loss for leaving Malaysia in 1965..
We should have gotten the recipe for the original authentic Ramly burger from them first before we got kicked out..
See la, nowadays everywhere selling not very authentic Ramly burger.
Originally posted by Urroh:Are the conditions for Singapore any different today than it was in 1819 - and throughout the history of Singapore ?
As we had no hinterland to rely on, small economy, mostly reliant on trading. High umemployment, social unrest. We had to be entered into Malaysia on their terms with some degree of autonomy. This is inside the history of modern Singapore. What do you expect? Sink without raw materials/ unfriendly neighbours??
How did you come to this conclusion that the Chinese population in Peninsular Malaya and Singapore combined will outnumber the Malays - as originally quoted to be a fear expressed by Tunku Abdul Rahman?
The benefits weigh more than the cons. The rational at that time, Chinese population in Peninsular Malaysia and Singapore together was more than the Malays combined. Only when Sarawak and Sabah agree to join then more or less equality of races in Malaysia.
Even the learned David Marshall, a brilliant lawyer in his youth, had stated before the Cobbold Commission that the Referendum was "dishonest" and he had demolished LKY's every reason for merger - this part of the Cobbold Commission was never revealed in public.
The main reason is we have to join them or else we will sink, that is the thinking at that time. Of course there will be doubts but the promises of having a common economy will be there, but at the time of the Referendum, is based on a loosely,federal, autonomous position for Singapore. So Singapore still have control over its state affairs. The doubts over merger are unfounded.
The voices of those - who knew the ways of those in the leadership position in the Malayan political scene - were shut down, in the single minded drive towards a larger political ambition of a Singapore being merged into Malaysia.
Certain percentage of what Singapore earns will be given to the federal Government. Greedy Demands? Singapore have been doing business with malaysia since Strait Settlement Days.
As you can see the malaysian leaders are crafty and fickle in mind. When Singapore went to vote in for merger, does Singapreans knows the Malaysian Politicians will change their concept and mind so fast in a twinkle.
Did you get your fact right ?
Anyway if the people believe in the Barisian Socalist. The people of Singapore will submit the blank votes. Although it will be counted as a vote for option A. But the number of blank votes will be known to the People. As you can see in this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_national_referendum%2C_1962, the blank votes are at 26%. Which means less people supported BS and voted for Option A. Anyway there isnt a law which state the people must turn up to vote, if the votes are rigged, the people can dont turn out for voting. No body will arrest them.
Can Singapore fall into the Communist Trap when LKY and his Ruling Political Party worked with the Colonial Government to dominate and manipulate every political manouvre ?
If there are an option to vote no for Referendum, Wont Singapore fall into the ranks of the Communists? Remember at that time there was a struggle between the Communists and PAP. If Barisian Socialist win, maybe the country will be fallen into Barisian Hand in the next major elections. With people with pro-communists thinking in charge of Singapore, What our country will be?
Look at Barisian Socialist, we can see much better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barisan_Sosialis
Now you are thinking - after having asked an almost irreverent question earlier - "When Singapore went to vote in for merger, does Singapreans knows the Malaysian Politicians will change their concept and mind so fast in a twinkle."
Erm.. during the discussion of merger, doesnt the Self government of Singapore liased with the British and Malaysia to discuss about merger? Aint the government of Singapore consist of Malayan born Businessman, politicians? Doesnt they knew the Malaysia Malay politicians enough of their ways? Anyway this is after Singapore have done with the Referendum results and proceed to round up the Communists, and after the signing of the merger agreement, then the Malaysian govt had a change of heart and thinking.
Never assume anything, and never be presumptious by being irrelevant - to read more than what is already printed.
Anyway you said uneducated or Chinese educated money grubbers. then you are not a Chinese i presume?
Can you appreciate the fact that when a Superior Person look down on someone, it does not mean that the Superior Person cannot make use of someone whom he looked down upon.
Anyway there are uneducated/Chinese politicians in Singapore in the early years of Singapore self govt/ state government after merger and also in the early years of Singapore Independence. So you cant say LKY look down on Chinese educated/uneducated as they form the majority of Singapore population in those early days. Or dun count their views if not they will not be in the government of Singapore as MP.
Go read up on the early politicians of Singapore.![]()