Impact of holding F1 in S'pore
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Its all about money, people.
The very way PAP run Singapore.
However,
1) I wonder if the government are being a copy-cat this time
and has no better innovative idea???
2) F1 is definitely a very environmental unfriendly sport.
We already reading enough news everyday on effects of climate change on tv and papers. Why should we be so irresponsible by adding to the cause??
So much so for the so-called "Clean energy drive".
3) LKY said we would become 1st world nation.
Whats all these blind "Economic" persue without concern for environment.
My suggestion would be to:
Host a "Green Vehicle Race" instead,
eg electric, hybrid, solar, alternative fuel car races.
This could promote green car developmnet and possibly eventually manufacturing here.
The worldwide race now is towards the Green Car, not F1 cars.
PS: In case some still do not know, new electric sports cars now has performance better than Ferraris and Poshes, and several times more efficient than Toyota Prius Hybrid. -
Right, I was referring to the environmental impact though.Originally posted by Gazelle:I would have to disagree with you on that. To you it might be just a another flight from Singapore to London, but to the passengers it might be their Honeymoon, seeking medical treatment in London, attending their children graduation, signing a million dollar contract, etc..
The same can be said about F1, if you dont watch this season, there will be one next year. -
1) Singapore has been hosting GP since the 60s till the mid 70s. Malaysia start only in 1999. (You can say we copy Malaysia can you?)Originally posted by NuLife:Its all about money, people.
The very way PAP run Singapore.
However,
1) I wonder if the government are being a copy-cat this time
and has no better innovative idea???
2) F1 is definitely a very environmental unfriendly sport.
We already reading enough news everyday on effects of climate change on tv and papers. Why should we be so irresponsible by adding to the cause??
So much so for the so-called "Clean energy drive".
3) LKY said we would become 1st world nation.
Whats all these blind "Economic" persue without concern for environment.
My suggestion would be to:
Host a "Green Vehicle Race" instead,
eg electric, hybrid, solar, alternative fuel car races.
This could promote green car developmnet and possibly eventually manufacturing here.
The worldwide race now is towards the Green Car, not F1 cars.
PS: In case some still do not know, new electric sports cars now has performance better than Ferraris and Poshes, and several times more efficient than Toyota Prius Hybrid.
2) Why should Singapore be the only sucker in the world that try to promote enviromental friendly sports when our neighbours are burning forest and the chinese are consumption about 1000 times more energy that us.
3) Answer to that tourism dollar...approx US$150mil revernue per race. -
Can we just leave the politics out of this and enjoy a race. It's not as if it's held everyday.
Gee. Get a grip and stop missing the forest for the trees. -
1) no one remembers the 70s.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Singapore has been hosting GP since the 60s till the mid 70s. Malaysia start only in 1999. (You can say we copy Malaysia can you?)
2) Why should Singapore be the only sucker in the world that try to promote enviromental friendly sports when our neighbours are burning forest and the chinese are consumption about 1000 times more energy that us.
3) Answer to that tourism dollar...approx US$150mil revernue per race.
2) & 3) Exactly where we place our "value" system and "1st world" mindset. huh??
While i do no disagree that F1 race can promote the economy,
I feel that there are more innovative ways than just copy F1 idea from KL. -
Worried about Impacting the environment??
They are more interested in impacting their bluddy coffers in a 'fattening' way!!
As for copying, they are WELL KNOWN for copying! -
Where do you get that figure? I am really interested to know.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Singapore has been hosting GP since the 60s till the mid 70s. Malaysia start only in 1999. (You can say we copy Malaysia can you?)
2) Why should Singapore be the only sucker in the world that try to promote enviromental friendly sports when our neighbours are burning forest and the chinese are consumption about 1000 times more energy that us.
3) Answer to that tourism dollar...approx US$150mil revernue per race.
How many countries hosting F1 have actually made money? I am certain Malaysia has not made money, but it has its intangible benefit for Malaysia as an oil producing country. Advertisement for Petronas, the auto and related industries, and of course, for Malaysia as a whole, which would do anything to be known.
We should not just go for it because LKY now thinks it is a good idea. If I am not wrong the policy then was that motor racing activities run contrary to our efforts to reduce car population, and specifically, cars that drink. Changing his mind again?
F1 is not a sport for ordinary people, but for the wealthy oil companies, the automotives manufacturers, and auto related industries such as tyre makers. What does it really promote? any technologies developed for F1 ever been used to improve commercial auto industries or the motorists in general? I am really interested to know.
If you have been to F1 race, you know what kind of sound pollution is there. For the few days during the race, residents will need to wear ear plugs at home, babies will have to be sent to relatives staying away from the circuit..... How many tourists would we bring in?? May be we should consider hosting Asia game, Olympics or World Cup.....
The elites at the top think they have the liberty to change their mind as and when they like, the poor at the bottom should always resist the temptation of money which they will never get. -
The company that host F1 willl most likely to breakeven or lose money. But as a country or cities, we will definitely make tons money plus you will get a chance to showcase your cities to 300m people around the who that watches F1.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Where do you get that figure? I am really interested to know.
How many countries hosting F1 have actually made money? I am certain Malaysia has not made money, but it has its intangible benefit for Malaysia as an oil producing country. Advertisement for Petronas, the auto and related industries, and of course, for Malaysia as a whole, which would do anything to be known.
We should not just go for it because LKY now thinks it is a good idea. If I am not wrong the policy then was that motor racing activities run contrary to our efforts to reduce car population, and specifically, cars that drink. Changing his mind again?
F1 is not a sport for ordinary people, but for the wealthy oil companies, the automotives manufacturers, and auto related industries such as tyre makers. What does it really promote? any technologies developed for F1 ever been used to improve commercial auto industries or the motorists in general? I am really interested to know.
If you have been to F1 race, you know what kind of sound pollution is there. For the few days during the race, residents will need to wear ear plugs at home, babies will have to be sent to relatives staying away from the circuit..... How many tourists would we bring in?? May be we should consider hosting Asia game, Olympics or World Cup.....
The elites at the top think they have the liberty to change their mind as and when they like, the poor at the bottom should always resist the temptation of money which they will never get.
I dont think you would be questioning about the figures if you have been following F1 long enough. Just ask yourself, if this is not a lucrative event for the host country, then why is Bernie able to command such a high hosting fee and yet some many country around the world is still trying for it?
If you look at the track layout, there is actually not many residential areas, plus if I am a living in the city, I would really hope that F1 cars will drive by my apartment so that I can organize a F1 party at home.
This is not a case of listening to MM Lee, this is about putting your money where the mouth is. -
Traction control, carbon fibre, wishbone suspensions, aerodynamics, just to name 4.
Let's not leave out the innovations in engine design that allow them to run efficiently and smoothly at 19000 RPM, which filter down and make your ordinary engines more powerful and yet less thirsty.
And in 2010 all F1 cars will be required to have energy recovery systems.
No one lives in that area. The nearest residences are in Waterloo St. The circuit is surrounded by hotels. And you'll get tens of thousands of race fans over the weekend - men in business suits will be in the minority.Originally posted by sgdiehard:F1 is not a sport for ordinary people, but for the wealthy oil companies, the automotives manufacturers, and auto related industries such as tyre makers. What does it really promote? any technologies developed for F1 ever been used to improve commercial auto industries or the motorists in general? I am really interested to know.
If you have been to F1 race, you know what kind of sound pollution is there. For the few days during the race, residents will need to wear ear plugs at home, babies will have to be sent to relatives staying away from the circuit..... How many tourists would we bring in?? May be we should consider hosting Asia game, Olympics or World Cup..... -
In reality, most of these come without F1, its more like F1 borrowing these ideas.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Traction control, carbon fibre, wishbone suspensions, aerodynamics, just to name 4.
Let's not leave out the innovations in engine design that allow them to run efficiently and smoothly at 19000 RPM, which filter down and make your ordinary engines more powerful and yet less thirsty.
And in 2010 all F1 cars will be required to have energy recovery systems.
No one lives in that area. The nearest residences are in Waterloo St. The circuit is surrounded by hotels. And you'll get tens of thousands of race fans over the weekend - men in business suits will be in the minority.
Carbon fibre already exist without F1 cars, besides, how many cars u know has carbon fibre?
Wishbone suspension had been around for a long time,
Aerodynamics is a no brainer.
The origin of traction control im not sure, but if u are an engineer, its also a no brainer for improving safety and driveability, as with many other technologies.
More efficient engine? I doubt so. These engines are design for higher rpm and torque, and lighter weight, and where cost is no issue, not necessarily more fuel efficient. Just like how Airplane's requirement for engine specs are different from normal cars.
The fuel consumption of an F1 is known to be equivalent to an a Boeing 747.
(stated by someone somewhere)
The energy recovery feature u mentioned, is already an area of intense research recently in commercial engines, without F1 in mind.
Though i agree the high sponsorship and competitive nature of F1 sport allow $$ to be pumped into this area which may produce new techniques, again perhaps where cost is no issue.
Of cos a few F1 technologies made it to commercial cars, but they are few and really high-end cars. The linkage to F1 is mostly for marketing.
Moreover, current trend is towards fuel efficient vehicles.
If u had been following the latest development in new green cars, they are all developed with commercial cars in mind.
It is rather the F1 cars that borrow these new technologies.
Eg advancements in battery/super capacitors, motors, for electric/hybrid drive. -
In the first place, why are you so concern about this when Singapore doesnt even manufacture cars. Plus singapore has already done its part by having the most expensive cars in the world.Originally posted by NuLife:In reality, most of these come without F1, its more like F1 borrowing these ideas.
Carbon fibre already exist without F1 cars, besides, how many cars u know has carbon fibre?
Wishbone suspension had been around for a long time,
Aerodynamics is a no brainer.
The origin of traction control im not sure, but if u are an engineer, its also a no brainer for improving safety and driveability, as with many other technologies.
More efficient engine? I doubt so. These engines are design for higher rpm and torque, and lighter weight, and where cost is no issue, not necessarily more fuel efficient. Just like how Airplane's requirement for engine specs are different from normal cars.
The fuel consumption of an F1 is known to be equivalent to an a Boeing 747.
(stated by someone somewhere)
The energy recovery feature u mentioned, is already an area of intense research recently in commercial engines, without F1 in mind.
Though i agree the high sponsorship and competitive nature of F1 sport allow $$ to be pumped into this area which may produce new techniques, again perhaps where cost is no issue.
Of cos a few F1 technologies made it to commercial cars, but they are few and really high-end cars. The linkage to F1 is mostly for marketing.
Moreover, current trend is towards fuel efficient vehicles.
If u had been following the latest development in new green cars, they are all developed with commercial cars in mind.
It is rather the F1 cars that borrow these new technologies.
Eg advancements in battery/super capacitors, motors, for electric/hybrid drive. -
Formula 1 has also been around for a long time, since 1950.
The use of carbon fibre on cars was pioneered in Formula 1 in the 80s. The same goes for TC as a performance aid around the same time. Wishbones were also born in the series ages ago.
Aerodynamics "is a no-brainer"? Innovations like diffusers, undertrays, ground effects and venturi devices were also born in F1. Don't forget that these enhance the efficiency of those green cars.
I forgot to mention carbon-ceramic brakes as well.
You have muddled the trivia I gave about fuel consumption. In one season, all the 22 F1 cars use only less fuel than the 747 on take-off. Fuel-efficiency without the expense of power is in the interest of the teams. It allows them to make shorter pitstops for fuel.
Car manufacturers do enter F1 for marketing reasons, but they also have to back their claims that technology trickles down to road cars.
Anyway, nothing's stopping us from bidding to host Challenge Bibendum. France, China, USA, Germany and Japan already host that and their respective Grands Prix.
Originally posted by NuLife:In reality, most of these come without F1, its more like F1 borrowing these ideas.
Carbon fibre already exist without F1 cars, besides, how many cars u know has carbon fibre?
Wishbone suspension had been around for a long time,
Aerodynamics is a no brainer.
The origin of traction control im not sure, but if u are an engineer, its also a no brainer for improving safety and driveability, as with many other technologies.
More efficient engine? I doubt so. These engines are design for higher rpm and torque, and lighter weight, and where cost is no issue, not necessarily more fuel efficient. Just like how Airplane's requirement for engine specs are different from normal cars.
The fuel consumption of an F1 is known to be equivalent to an a Boeing 747.
(stated by someone somewhere)
The energy recovery feature u mentioned, is already an area of intense research recently in commercial engines, without F1 in mind.
Though i agree the high sponsorship and competitive nature of F1 sport allow $$ to be pumped into this area which may produce new techniques, again perhaps where cost is no issue.
Of cos a few F1 technologies made it to commercial cars, but they are few and really high-end cars. The linkage to F1 is mostly for marketing.
Moreover, current trend is towards fuel efficient vehicles.
If u had been following the latest development in new green cars, they are all developed with commercial cars in mind.
It is rather the F1 cars that borrow these new technologies.
Eg advancements in battery/super capacitors, motors, for electric/hybrid drive. -
yay!! Another Smile for Spore campaign!! *flashes white teeth*
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Originally posted by nanren4ever:yay!! Another Smile for Spore campaign!! *flashes white teeth*
That's so missing the point. -
That sounds more logical.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:You have muddled the trivia I gave about fuel consumption. In one season, all the 22 F1 cars use only less fuel than the 747 on take-off. Fuel-efficiency without the expense of power is in the interest of the teams. It allows them to make shorter pitstops for fuel. -
I do not object to holding F1 race (as long as the environmental impact is not too bad), just that I rather see some green car race for clean car technology advancement that benefits more people, or even promote new automotive industry in singapore, if possible at all, which will be in billions, and provide more jobs.Originally posted by Gazelle:In the first place, why are you so concern about this when Singapore doesnt even manufacture cars. Plus singapore has already done its part by having the most expensive cars in the world.
Never say impossible. -
Honestly, I feel all these talks about F1 tech trickling down to commercial cars is BS. Like i said b4, how many of todays cars actually uses those F1 tech, like dvanced aerodynamic effects etc.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Formula 1 has also been around for a long time, since 1950.
The use of carbon fibre on cars was pioneered in Formula 1 in the 80s. The same goes for TC as a performance aid around the same time. Wishbones were also born in the series ages ago.
Aerodynamics "is a no-brainer"? Innovations like diffusers, undertrays, ground effects and venturi devices were also born in F1. Don't forget that these enhance the efficiency of those green cars.
I forgot to mention carbon-ceramic brakes as well.
You have muddled the trivia I gave about fuel consumption. In one season, all the 22 F1 cars use only less fuel than the 747 on take-off. Fuel-efficiency without the expense of power is in the interest of the teams. It allows them to make shorter pitstops for fuel.
Car manufacturers do enter F1 for marketing reasons, but they also have to back their claims that technology trickles down to road cars.
Even those u mentioned above, don't really improve fuel efficiency, they are meant to improve sports car performances, which are more likely found in expensive commercial sports cars, which are among the worst in fuel efficiency.
Besides such sports car are really meant to attract attention and even envys,
how useful huh?
Almost all commercial car tech comes as natural tech advancements/improvements, just as with other tech, not really because of F1.
Anyways, no point saying these, like u said F1 is definitely coming to singapore. cheers
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As I've mentioned, TC and wishbone suspension are used in your ordinary cars, like previous generations of the Honda Civic. Even green cars like the Honda Insight use undertrays. There may not be a direct link but they were thought of by brains working to eke out extra performance in racing.
At no point did I say the deal has been closed. However I'd like to see it happening here very much. It's a sport that one can be really passionate about. You can't say the same of a casino you have to pay $100 to enter or some huge conference you can only follow through the news.
We've been let down several times when it came to motor racing in recent history. Talk about hosting an event or a track would surface, and then disappear quietly. And then there was the convenient way the support and coverage of our racing drivers and teams was abandoned. Was it because nobody cared?
Here we are with concrete plans underway but all people care about are disruptions to their own schedules and eardrums, adding fodder to their anti-PAP cause or reasons which reflect ignorance of the sport. The disruptions are going to be real, it's part and parcel of the show and there are ways to minimise it. Take a little time out to soak in the atmosphere...if it happens.
This is something worth cheering, but instead there's no passion coming from these quarters. It's either apathy or cynicism. Maybe you can't help it, other things that happen on this island disappoint me too. But I have never seen attitudes like this from people I've met elsewhere who were going to host WRC and F1 events for the first time.Originally posted by NuLife:Honestly, I feel all these talks about F1 tech trickling down to commercial cars is BS. Like i said b4, how many of todays cars actually uses those F1 tech, like dvanced aerodynamic effects etc.
Even those u mentioned above, don't really improve fuel efficiency, they are meant to improve sports car performances, which are more likely found in expensive commercial sports cars, which are among the worst in fuel efficiency.
Besides such sports car are really meant to attract attention and even envys,
how useful huh?
Almost all commercial car tech comes as natural tech advancements/improvements, just as with other tech, not really because of F1.
Anyways, no point saying these, like u said F1 is definitely coming to singapore. cheers -
Originally posted by NuLife:
I think automotive racing and green doesnt go together at all. It will be ideal, but it will not work.
My suggestion would be to:
Host a "Green Vehicle Race" instead,
eg electric, hybrid, solar, alternative fuel car races.
This could promote green car developmnet and possibly eventually manufacturing here.
The worldwide race now is towards the Green Car, not F1 cars.
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Imagine a F1 race without the noise pollution? (Incredible engine revs) No more 19,000rpm screams, no more traction control ignition cut that creates the loud bangs? Watching F1 will be like watching a movie without sound. No more excitement.
Its like, shall we have fireworks or fire crakers without the noise pollution please?
Yes, the environment is important and we are all responsible to protect it. But hey, i'm human too and honestly? With F1, i shall pass with the Green issue. If you want to go green, forget about racing.
No more long duration camshafts, no more anti lag systems, no more testing days that consumes so many tyres, no more engines that revs to 19,000rpm. So in effect F1 will get boring. NO way can we push the limit of engineering on combustion engines and staying green.
I have no doubts F1 in singapore will benefit us in many ways. The commercial impact is is almost impossible to quantify.
But i have concerns abt the traffic and logistical problems arising from hosting it in the middle of the city center. The roads will most likely be closed from tuesday leading up to the race on sunday.
Tuesday to prep the roads, wednesday and thursday to set up all the stands and allow the teams to settle down in the paddocks, Friday test day, saturday quali and sunday race. Monday pack up, maybe tuesday before everything is cleared up.
thats a one week road closure... -
Dont worry man, those working around the marina areas are mostly highly paid bankers from ML and Citibank etc, the only problem they would face is that they cant drive their ferraris, porsche and lambo to work thats all.Originally posted by footprints:I think automotive racing and green doesnt go together at all. It will be ideal, but it will not work.
Imagine a F1 race without the noise pollution? (Incredible engine revs) No more 19,000rpm screams, no more traction control ignition cut that creates the loud bangs? Watching F1 will be like watching a movie without sound. No more excitement.
Its like, shall we have fireworks or fire crakers without the noise pollution please?
Yes, the environment is important and we are all responsible to protect it. But hey, i'm human too and honestly? With F1, i shall pass with the Green issue. If you want to go green, forget about racing.
No more long duration camshafts, no more anti lag systems, no more testing days that consumes so many tyres, no more engines that revs to 19,000rpm. So in effect F1 will get boring. NO way can we push the limit of engineering on combustion engines and staying green.
I have no doubts F1 in singapore will benefit us in many ways. The commercial impact is is almost impossible to quantify.
But i have concerns abt the traffic and logistical problems arising from hosting it in the middle of the city center. The roads will most likely be closed from tuesday leading up to the race on sunday.
Tuesday to prep the roads, wednesday and thursday to set up all the stands and allow the teams to settle down in the paddocks, Friday test day, saturday quali and sunday race. Monday pack up, maybe tuesday before everything is cleared up.
thats a one week road closure...
If there is one government that call pull this off, it will have to be SIngapore. -
F1 enthusiasts will no doubt see the benefits of having a F1 race in Singapore.
But let it be known that the decision to host one is actually to attract more foreigners and tourists here.
It was never really about satisfying the yearnings of Singaporean F1 fans.
Really. -
If F1 is not coming to singapore its alright, I'll just save the money, fly over to melbourne next year and catch the race there.
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Those who are concerned about why we're promoting an environmentally harmful sport should reflect on their own attitudes towards recycling, reducing plastic bag usage and conservation of endangered species.
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Not everyone in S'pore are F1 fans. Not everyone whose lives are going to be affected are F1 fans. So, I don't see why we can't cast a "Against" vote or even just to voice our concerns.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:...
We've been let down several times when it came to motor racing in recent history. Talk about hosting an event or a track would surface, and then disappear quietly. And then there was the convenient way the support and coverage of our racing drivers and teams was abandoned. Was it because nobody cared?
Here we are with concrete plans underway but all people care about are disruptions to their own schedules and eardrums, adding fodder to their anti-PAP cause or reasons which reflect ignorance of the sport. The disruptions are going to be real, it's part and parcel of the show and there are ways to minimise it. Take a little time out to soak in the atmosphere...if it happens.
...
Yes, F1 will bring in a certain amount of revenue or boost S'pore reputation or whatever directly or indirectly. But is that guaranteed? How accurate are these predictions of increase revenue? As accurate as the figures for IMF?
Sorry, I'm selfish. I can't wait for the benefits to trickle down multiple levels over multiple years. -
The thing is, many of us are intolerant of inconveniences and disruptions, and some of the concerns raised are unfounded and reflect ignorance. I've already done as much as I can to reply to these in the relevant threads.
I am not concerned about how much money the event can spin at all. It's an international motorsports event. The buzz is already more than enough, and the passion of the fans is infectious and priceless. It's worth keeping even if it makes losses - it's unlikely to be as bad as what permanent tracks like Silverstone and Magny-Cours are facing, and even these guys battle to retain the rights to host their races.
As I've said, step out of your bubble and enjoy the atmosphere of the F1 Village, if it comes. That part of the grounds is open even to non-paying visitors, going by what is done at the other races.Originally posted by phber:Not everyone in S'pore are F1 fans. Not everyone whose lives are going to be affected are F1 fans. So, I don't see why we can't cast a "Against" vote or even just to voice our concerns.
Yes, F1 will bring in a certain amount of revenue or boost S'pore reputation or whatever directly or indirectly. But is that guaranteed? How accurate are these predictions of increase revenue? As accurate as the figures for IMF?
Sorry, I'm selfish. I can't wait for the benefits to trickle down multiple levels over multiple years.