You seriously got to be kidding me!
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Singapore cannot afford to have a "revolving door" style of government where top leaders change every five years.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said the country needs good, competent people who will stay.
And this is why they must be paid market rates.
Mr Lee was speaking to reporters in Sydney at the end of his visit to Australia and New Zealand.
From parliamentary secretaries to ministers, the top level in the civil service is paid a total of S$46 million annually.
That is 0.13 percent of the total government expenditure or 0.022 percent of GDP.
On Monday, the civil service pay review will be announced in Parliament.
The Minister Mentor warned that the Singapore economy would be in jeopardy if it does not pay top dollar for top people.
He said if this S$46 million was cut to maybe S$36 million or S$26 million, the country would save S$20 million but in the process, would jeopardise an economy of S$210 billion.
"So for the average family earning S$1,500-S$3,000, we are talking of astronomical figures but for people like me in government, to deal with the money which we have accumulated by the sweat of our brow over the last 40 years, you have to pay the market rate or the man will up stakes and join Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and you would have an incompetent man and you would have lost money by the billions," said Mr Lee.
While other countries may have leaders who are paid less, Mr Lee said rewarding Singapore leaders well is a system that has worked and is above board.
He said: "If you are going to quarrel about S$46 million – up or down another S$10 to S$20 million – I say you don't have a sense of proportion."
And when it comes to benchmarking, Mr Lee said his own annual income, which is S$2.7 million, is a fraction of what the top manager in the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation (GIC) earns.
He said: "The cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government... your asset values will disappear, your apartments will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other persons' countries - foreign workers."
When asked to comment on the perception that political leaders should not be in it for the money, and instead, be ready to make that extra sacrifice for the good of the people, the Minister Mentor said it is an admirable sentiment.
But he added that it had taken much persuasion to get leaders like Dr Ng Eng Hen and Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, who had lucrative private practices, to give it all up to join politics, with no guarantee of success. -
I really want to reply this thread but I dont want to get to jail.
I reserved my comments. -
you know what they say about people who keep repeating the same thing trying to get people to believe them
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He got his award already... so he can say wadever he wants now in australia..
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Yah loh... If you dont want your HDB values to disappear, be joblessOriginally posted by allentyb:He said: "The cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government... your asset values will disappear, your apartments will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other persons' countries - foreign workers."
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if you dont want your children to be maids better raise minister salaries... .
I am so scared of such a world without Ministers with High Salaries..
Mummy Help help!!
LKY... Master of Fear tatics
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The people do not believe, but we don't have more competent people around.Originally posted by the Bear:you know what they say about people who keep repeating the same thing trying to get people to believe them -
cuse me.. competent people already left for greener pastures..Originally posted by Quinsy:The people do not believe, but we don't have more competent people around. -
duh.. thats a funny way to put it seriously.... if a incompetents man would hold the job and make billions in losses.. who is to blame also? the incompetent man or the fool who hired him to do the job in the first place?Originally posted by allentyb:" you have to pay the market rate or the man will up stakes and join Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and you would have an incompetent man and you would have lost money by the billions," said Mr Lee.
seriously.. he should stop talking and let papa do the talking instead..
Morgan Stanley? Lehman Brothers? Goldman Sachs? lol.. do we have any ex ministers holding a post there currently? -
I am quite surprised by the narrow view of governance here ... so in effect, governing singapore is equivalent to the skillset of a money manager in one of the financial houses. Funny, I always thought that governing is more than just managing money... if that's the case, why bother having the other ministries. They should all be absorbed under the Ministry of Finance. Well, I guess this is a reflection of a fact that I am naively or trying hard to face up to... we are all monetary units in the government's all omnipotent calculations.
BTW, I hope when he says, the money "we" have accumulated by the "sweat of our brow", he is also referring to the people of Singapore and not just the few men in white. Sheesh.
When we quarrel about 10-20million, we have no sense of proportion. But when we lose tons of money in bad foreign investments, that is entirely fine. This 10-20 million is on an annual basis out of the people's pocket - I submit that it is perfectly within our sense of proportion to quibble about it.
The arrogant tone in the entire speech really stings "cure is to have ...blah blah"-- like wasabi in the nose. Is it fair for the government to challenge its people to a doomsday scenario?Originally posted by allentyb:Singapore cannot afford to have a "revolving door" style of government where top leaders change every five years.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said the country needs good, competent people who will stay.
The Minister Mentor warned that the Singapore economy would be in jeopardy if it does not pay top dollar for top people.
He said if this S$46 million was cut to maybe S$36 million or S$26 million, the country would save S$20 million but in the process, would jeopardise an economy of S$210 billion.
"So for the average family earning S$1,500-S$3,000, we are talking of astronomical figures but for people like me in government, to deal with the money which we have accumulated by the sweat of our brow over the last 40 years, you have to pay the market rate or the man will up stakes and join Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and you would have an incompetent man and you would have lost money by the billions," said Mr Lee.
He said: "If you are going to quarrel about S$46 million – up or down another S$10 to S$20 million – I say you don't have a sense of proportion."
...
He said: "The cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government... your asset values will disappear, your apartments will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other persons' countries - foreign workers."
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Here's the big silent question:
WHO ELSE is there besides HIM, to say otherwise and be heard - and not sued???
Ever been to the dentist? Recall how the dentist will talk to you while your mouth is wide open, and his menacing tool/s is deep in your mouth extracting your tooth, completely at the dentist's mercy?
This is exactly how we are right now... and the problem is that no options were ever allowed to exist for us to make! -
you don't just save that $20 mil or so, you're saving hundreds of millions if you include the pension these greedy bunch will be receiving....as for lost value of houses, it's already begun, except for the penthouses that are already out of reach to the majority...lost of jobs, didn't they read about the mrt disruptions....self-justification is pathetic....
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how come they dont asks how much we could save if we dont buy Shin Corp or Optus? Or the free compensation to Singtel...Originally posted by countdracula:you don't just save that $20 mil or so, you're saving hundreds of millions if you include the pension these greedy bunch will be receiving....as for lost value of houses, it's already begun, except for the penthouses that are already out of reach to the majority...lost of jobs, didn't they read about the mrt disruptions....self-justification is pathetic.... -
I like this ... this is cute ...Originally posted by allentyb:But he added that it had taken much persuasion to get leaders like Dr Ng Eng Hen and Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, who had lucrative private practices, to give it all up to join politics, with no guarantee of success.
no guarantee of success ? ... walk overs doesn't count ? ... -
so his daughter in law get much more than $2.7 million?Originally posted by allentyb:And when it comes to benchmarking, Mr Lee said his own annual income, which is S$2.7 million, is a fraction of what the top manager in the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation (GIC) earns.
The Decline of Western Democracy
by Walter Lippmann
“...the treatment of human beings as things, as the mere instruments of power and ambition, is without a doubt the consequence of the decay of the belief in man as something more than an animal animated by highly conditioned reflexes and chemical reactions. For, unless man is something more than that, he has no rights that anyone is bound to respect, and there are no limitations upon his conduct which he is bound to obey.”
This is how LKY treats Singaporeans... -
according to LKY's logic, the more we pay them the more money we will have in our banks... errr... pay them a billion and we will all be CASH millionaires?
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according to LKY's logic, then New Zealand should be another banana African republic because Helen Clark is paid "only" S$300,000+ instead of New Zealand having such high ranking in the Quality of Living and low Cost of Living survey...
[url=http://sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=246046]Cost of Living High/Quality of Life Low WHY?
Why is Singapore's cost of living so high when out quality of living so low? where did all the money they took from us go that could have raised our quality of living go? -
I think something is FUNDAMENTALLY VERY VERY VERY VERY WRONG when the powers-that-be of our country benchmark themselves against bankers and money managers instead of other first world politicians .....
they are not bankers, they are not money managers, they are not CEOs of
MNCs ... they are politicians, servants of the people ... a country's well-being is NOT solely based on economics alone ...
are the powers-that-be so smug and contented about themselves that they don't even want to pretend to pay lip service to altruism anymore ? ...
edit: aesthetics -
This statement says it all and shows the true color of LKY:Originally posted by Fatum:I think something is FUNDAMENTALLY VERY VERY VERY VERY WRONG when the powers-that-be of our country benchmark themselves against bankers and money managers instead of other first world politicians .....
they are not bankers, they are not money managers, they are not CEOs of
MNCs ... they are politicians, servants of the people ... a country's well-being is solely based on economics alone ...
are the powers-that-be so smug and contented about themselves that they don't even want to pretend to pay lip service to altruism anymore ? ...
"When asked to comment on the perception that political leaders should not be in it for the money, and instead, be ready to make that extra sacrifice for the good of the people, the Minister Mentor said it is an admirable sentiment. " - LKY
He could have been in it for the money all along... the early parts of his administration (working for the people) could simply be to gain support until he had absolute power... -
fully agree that revolving doors are no good but an unopened door is far worse because eventually it will be rammed down and the repercussions are unimaginable....
it is ironic that he rejects western style governance but at the same time embrace western capitalism, especially when it comes to keeping their wallets fat....
didn't he espouse confucian values? self-sacrifice is one virtue he overlooked...at the end of the day, no one is asking them to live in poverty, come on, a million a year is more than sufficient, if the 3 doctors find it hard to maintain their 'stepped-down' lifestyles as ministers, please send them back to where they come from.... -
hey, what is meant by "an admirable sentiment"?
can more elaboration be made on this phrase? Does MM Lee meant to say, in his view, that it is a lofty belief/opinion that can only be viewed admirably? -
Revolving door? In fact it is better to have a change once every few years so that the new scholars/ MP have chance to climb.
The trouble is, they stay too long, don't want to step down.
Also $2.7M is too much for old guy. Why want so much? Not much time left to enjoy. Should give to charity. -
As always, inducing fear to achieve his demands and quell all, if any, opposing retorts.
Maybe next time he'll ask us to pray to him every 1st and 15th of the month so he could bless us from above and not make our hard earned HDB flats worthless and our wives and daughters work as maids in other countries.
One has to question, are the 'cement cells' we live in, worth 10 to 15 years' salary ? -
Throughout my reading of the article, I was like: "WTF?!? Stop that baloney sh.it!"
This style of leadership is only valid in third world countries!
Pay more salary and get better ministers? As if salary is the only factor that determines talent. This is just a way to legitimise their greed.
Totally, definitely and absolutely disgusted. 
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Originally posted by allentyb:
I would like to see the breakdown of that S$210 billion.
He said if this S$46 million was cut to maybe S$36 million or S$26 million, the country would save S$20 million but in the process, would jeopardise an economy of S$210 billion.
He said: "If you are going to quarrel about S$46 million – up or down another S$10 to S$20 million – I say you don't have a sense of proportion."
Raise worthy:
Revenue from bringing in foreign investments, taxation of foreign MNCs etc...
Capital gains from investing singapore reserves wisely.
No-no:
Revenue gained by taxation of peasants. -
Yuh huh. Stop that revolving door, buy a whole bunch of glorified yes-men and happily engage in groupthink. Brilliant.