You seriously got to be kidding me!
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Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:
ouched, u burnt me again
so why is it that only singapore has to resort to such means to keep talent?
are you saying the civil servants in other countries are any less capable?
answer these few questions first before u deem the arguments as whining.
[b]i realised one thing, anti-pap gang love to flame pple.. haha..
you are one hypocrite LOL[/b]
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are these not wad the government has achieved?
http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html -
It's not that anti-pap loves to flame people, is just tt some ppl deserved to be flamed and some ppl admit to being dogs though i did not specify at all
I myself is neither pro or anti pap.
I just do not think they can warrant such a high pay and their logic is rather flawed. To attract more talents? Attract more corrupt talents that is... They want a good talents in government, incorporate a desire to serve the country in the education. Incorporate selflessness, not selfishness and motivated by material things. People motivated by money cannot accomplish things, just look at history itself. People who left behind a legacy is motivated by passion. There are simply too many examples for me to list them all down. They are simply not addressing the root of the problem and in fact might create another problem. Some people are simply to naive, i have to admit his speech is rather crafty and can propogate but if u critically evaluate, there are a lot of flaws in the logic
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is that even feasible? government cannot point a gun at the MNCs and SMEs and say "u better give my pple a pay raise". neither is setting min wage a gd idea..Originally posted by NewAge:ty ty. i dont mean do not pay them at all. they cn raise their pay but only aft they enable an income rise across the lvl. -
VivId CrItiQuE you are an idiot. I came to this conclusion based on your signature, and your reply to OO_OO_OO...Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:ouched, u burnt me again
Your siggie reads: people who gives sarcastic and non constructive replies are idiots -
i totally don't understand.Originally posted by Skibi:A price tag is only a piece of paper pasted on the item. How can you equate a high price with the actual quality of the item? I.e If I pasted a $1 price tag on a piece of diamond, most people will not have the intelligence to purchase it... only an accomplished jeweler who happen to see the item will know that it is a real diamond and rejoice at such a find. Thus you have to actually examine the item carefully to determine its real value. Similarly, talents need to be groomed carefully with the proper values and capabilities. You do not give anybody heavy responsibility without first testing that persons abilities. It is always start from small tasks then move on to bigger tasks. -
Are those in the public sector getting a pay raise?Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:is that even feasible? government cannot point a gun at the MNCs and SMEs and say "u better give my pple a pay raise". neither is setting min wage a gd idea..
Are teachers getting a pay raise? Are they doing a horrid job?
Are policemen getting a pay raise? Aren't they in danger of being bribed? -
u haf raise several gd points. but the fact that sg government is the highest paid in the world, can we say that it is not justified? in wad sense haf they not done well? wad must they achieve to say that they deserve a pay raise? if we reduce the government's salary across the board, will we still haf them around tmr? who will be the pple stepping up? some "patriotic" pple who cannot guarantee that they can run the country as well as the current government?Originally posted by walesa:The point is not whether it's a couple of dollars, but rather, is that money well spent? In other words, do what they earn commensurate with what they're paid?
Applying some simple logic, Singapore's politicians are the highest paid(highest by a long mile, in fact) in the world - have you got anything tangible(for a start, Singapore's economy is nowhere close to being the best on this planet whichever yardstick you wish to use to measure economic progress) to back up that kind of pay? Is there another industry in Singapore whose top earners are also the highest paid in the world for that industry? So on what basis are we benchmarking the fascists' pay against?
More importantly, it really isn't an issue of pure dollars and cents whether it makes a big difference to anyone's life - if that were the case, can I go round extorting 1 cent from every stranger I meet on the basis that 1 cent means nothing?
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone begrudges what Bill Gates earns as the chairman of Microsoft (for the record, Gates is only paid USD1million per annum in wages) or what Tiger Woods and Roger Federer earn as prize money for the tournaments they win because that's money deserved and it's not an amount they could simply authorise to pay themselves at a whim. That said, it's quite another thing altogether for criminals to go round paying themselves what they fancy as they deem fit...
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I was thinking whether some people actually read the article of MM Lee PROPERLY... There are comparisons made with countries like Finland BETTER than Singapore and their politicians pay...
You mean citizens of Singapore are not involved? Geographical location and no natural disaster= low risk. stable government also play a part but alot of countries governments which politicians have lower pay are quite stable...Does tt mean all of us should get more pay too? In the end we pay more in GST and tt's the reality... Whatever we do the government just claim credit, is that what some people mean? Then this defeats the purpose of an united nation...
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Why should setting a minimum wage not be a good idea?Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:is that even feasible? government cannot point a gun at the MNCs and SMEs and say "u better give my pple a pay raise". neither is setting min wage a gd idea.. -
tt will be another long argument altogether.Originally posted by walesa:Why should setting a minimum wage not be a good idea? -
i must say they are paid rather well.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Are those in the public sector getting a pay raise?
Are teachers getting a pay raise? Are they doing a horrid job?
Are policemen getting a pay raise? Aren't they in danger of being bribed?
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We are not talking about the reduction of the government official's salary. We do not even dare to dream such lofty dreams. What we are asking, is a more considerate timing.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:u haf raise several gd points. but the fact that sg government is the highest paid in the world, can we say that it is not justified? in wad sense haf they not done well? wad must they achieve to say that they deserve a pay raise? if we reduce the government's salary across the board, will we still haf them around tmr? who will be the pple stepping up? some "patriotic" pple who cannot guarantee that they can run the country as well as the current government?
I have every reason now to believe that the GST increase is to line their pockets... the incorruptible government's pockets. We are just the puppets... Stupid puppets. -
Are the ministers not paid well now?Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:i must say they are paid rather well. -
The point we're talking about here is "best", not "good". If your wages are the best by a mile, are you telling me your performance standard should be benchmarked against just the "good"?Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:u haf raise several gd points. but the fact that sg government is the highest paid in the world, can we say that it is not justified? in wad sense haf they not done well? wad must they achieve to say that they deserve a pay raise? if we reduce the government's salary across the board, will we still haf them around tmr? who will be the pple stepping up? some "patriotic" pple who cannot guarantee that they can run the country as well as the current government?
The US President takes home USD400, 000 a year. Your dear PM takes home SGD1.9million a year - so is our economic performance 3 times as good as that of the US? Try justifying that kind of comparison now... -
is finland a gd country to compare wif in the 1st place? demographics, geographics, everything is different.. y not compare with hk or smth? i'm not an expert in this though..Originally posted by xyz22222:I was thinking whether some people actually read the article of MM Lee PROPERLY... There are comparisons made with countries like Finland BETTER than Singapore and their politicians pay...
You mean citizens of Singapore are not involved? Geographical location and no natural disaster= low risk. stable government also play a part but alot of countries governments which politicians have lower pay are quite stable...Does tt mean all of us should get more pay too? In the end we pay more in GST and tt's the reality... Whatever we do the government just claim credit, is that what some people mean? Then this defeats the purpose of an united nation...
wassup wif the GST thing now? must sg reduce GST to the lowest in the world b4 pple stop complaining?
nobody is saying that the government should get all the credit, but we shouldn't discount everything they did either. -
No need to argue with some people who describe themselves in the quote. everyone should know better who the real idiot is. i really suggest he should pay more taxes, preferably near 50% like Sweden... Maybe we should notify IRAS that there is a person willing to contribute more to the ministers, as our government is fantastic in his sight.. i guess IRAS wont decline... who knows? that person might be the patriot of the year award
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i tink instead of comparing economic performance, y not compare economic growth in the past 3 decades instead? isn't that a better comparison?Originally posted by walesa:The point we're talking about here is "best", not "good". If your wages are the best by a mile, are you telling me your performance standard should be benchmarked against just the "good"?
The US President takes home USD400, 000 a year. Your dear PM takes home SGD1.9million a year - so is our economic performance 3 times as good as that of the US? Try justifying that kind of comparison now... -
Minimum wage is every bit as essential as taxation, especially in an authoritarian regime where labour standards are no different from that of third world countries.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:tt will be another long argument altogether. -
exactly, y ain't pple complaining that our taxes are juz a fraction compared to that of sweden?Originally posted by xyz22222:No need to argue with some people who describe themselves in the quote. everyone should know better who the real idiot is. i really suggest he should pay more taxes, preferably near 50% like Sweden... Maybe we should notify IRAS that there is a person willing to contribute more to the ministers, as our government is fantastic in his sight.. i guess IRAS wont decline... who knows? that person might be the patriot of the year award -
What economic growth you want to talk about then?Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:i tink instead of comparing economic performance, y not compare economic growth in the past 3 decades instead? isn't that a better comparison?
Should we consider the Japanese and German economic boom over the last half century? Why aren't the Japanese and German leaders the best paid in the world then? -
this is an extremely strong sentence which i feel is baseless..Originally posted by walesa:Minimum wage is every bit as essential as taxation, especially in an authoritarian regime where labour standards are no different from that of third world countries. -
perhaps we should compare the cost of living and tax rates with them as well?Originally posted by walesa:What economic growth you want to talk about then?
Should we consider the Japanese and German economic boom over the last half century? Why aren't the Japanese and German leaders the best paid in the world then?
i'm tired.. gd nite every1.. -
Just precisely u are not an expert in all this areas like demographics or economic growth... you should not continue to make a fool out of yourself....If You are not convince i am sure singapore's economic growth is pale in comparison to some other countries... do you want me to elaborate more? i can present more evidence through research... don't argue for the sake of arguing...
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What do you know about social welfare in the Scandinavian countries and the UK? I'd be more than happy to reason with you till the cows come home if you want to tackle this issue...Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:exactly, y ain't pple complaining that our taxes are juz a fraction compared to that of sweden?
Granted, taxes are a hell lot higher in all the Scandinavian countries and the UK, but have you the faintest idea the social welfare that exists in such countries?
The unemployed can walk into the dole office to get a monthly stipence, the sick can get free medical care for life when they seek treatment at public hospitals, the elderly are entitled to a "bus pass" when they turn 65 (they basically get to travel for free on public buses in the UK), civil servants are entitled to pensions, parents are granted extended paid maternal/paternal leave for every newborn, education in public schools are free - these are just some of the social welfare that exists in at least 1 of the 5 countries (namely Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and the UK). All that before considering there's minimum wage to safeguard the rights of the working class from unscrupulous employers and there're more than sufficient avenues(from trade unions to the courts) for workers who think they have been shortchanged to seek redress...
So tell me, what perks do your taxes generate in Singapore besides going into the private coffers of those who are effectively disconnected from reality?