You seriously got to be kidding me!
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you really argue for the sake of arguing when you don't know what the high taxes is used for. Moreover, have you really gone overseas, we are not even considered first world country, for heaven's sake.
You are just not talking much sense and this is shown by your lack of knowledge. You think you argue sense, but your lack of knowledge shows otherwise. You might be intelligent but please get some facts right then we will listen to you instead of just making comments for the sake of making it with no in-depth knowledge at all.... -
It's as baseless as your inability to comprehend the logic in the argument...Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:this is an extremely strong sentence which i feel is baseless.. -
The Singapore Government is in danger of attracting money-faced scholars in the very future. That is if MIW still stays in power by then...
Notice I use the word SCHOLAR, not TALENT. -
walesa, really well said :lol
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well its the gov job to ensure that everyone reaps the benefit of a booming economy amid inflation. its the gov job to come up with a solution. they are pay to do so. though i understand tat its hard but this reflect the cruelty of private sector.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:is that even feasible? government cannot point a gun at the MNCs and SMEs and say "u better give my pple a pay raise". -
ah!!! A student!!!Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:i do not come to a well to do family, i am not earning a fat paycheck, in fact i am still studying. i've been in diff jobs since my secondary school days, and know the difficulties of earning money. my parents are the type of pple that ur describing, feeling sour, stuck at that wage having difficulties moving up. but i also recognise that they ain't doing much to improve themselves. yes they work hard, but not smart. i am come to recognise that u dun blame any1 for ur low paycheck but urself for ur lack of competence. whats the point of whining? does it help? y not use ur brains and think of how to make money? there are so many cases of retrenched workers who make it gd after upgrading themselves or starting a biz. no, i did not quote these examples from the newspapers, but i'm refering to my fren's parents. as for the part "get out of my elite uncaring face", i will not use such phrases because it is plain rude, but neither will i sympathise wif those pple who juz sit around all day whining.
Then perhaps you do not understand how full-time working people feel.
To be honest, recently, I moved into the upper range of the pay median in Singapore, and I do have a good life. People like me shouldn't be upset about the govt, I hear?
WRONG
When I invest a dollar into something, I expect returns. Every dollar spent must be accounted for. We have to pay taxes, and our taxes are used to rear a bunch of cheerleaders. Do we really need to pay so much for cheerleaders? I would envision paying 10% of what we pay to a bunch of indian FTs to do cheerleading. After all, their gift of the gab is better than many of those sleeping MPs and ministers in our parliament.
Every extra dollar given to the ministers makes me question whether they are worth that money? Honestly, what have they achieved over the years? Most of what you see (and what you have) came from Lee Kuan Yew's generation, NOT this generation. And I don't recall his generation of old guards earning so much money.
Wait till when you start earning money, and you start to pay taxes. Then you will start to question how your dollars are spent, coz these are your hard-earned money. -
This is one real example of what our govt has moulded the youth of our nation into. They no longer believe in passion and the heart, but only money. It is a very sad fact...Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:i realised one thing, anti-pap gang love to flame pple.. haha..
let me ask u a question, if u r one of the super humans ard, extremely smart and knowledgable.. every company is offering u annual pay package by the millions, will u forgo all that to join the government(and end up getting flamed by ur pple over every little thing)?
pls do not give me that crap about "service to the nation", unless u've never complained about national service. how many pple will be so noble to forgo a higher salary elsewhere and stick wif the government? are you one of them? y do the outstanding graduates choose to join MNCs and not a GLC? simply because MNCs pay better! so pls, unless u haf a better plan to retain talents in the public service without raising remuneration, pls keep quiet and stop whining.
And with the impending hike, they will be sending even more wrong signals to our young, that is...
Money is the MOST IMPT, NOTHING ELSE, not even your loved ones, not even your beliefs.
I agree with David Marshall's words, that our society has lost its soul -
Oops pardon me ... I'm no sympathizers towards 2 legged canines , lol, and your masters will be gratified with your "skills" though.... keep em comingOriginally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:lol, the opposition will feel disgraced wif supporters like u
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Why is a revolving door government no good? It's only not good for "a few Singaporeans", those that crave for power and money. Singapore like any good organisation can function without the need for top management for a certain period, till replaced. Do you think that the Microsoft will close shop because Bill Gates is no longer at the helm? The company still functions till new management takes control, management exist to strategized on the future directions of the company.Originally posted by allentyb:Singapore cannot afford to have a "revolving door" style of government where top leaders change every five years.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said the country needs good, competent people who will stay.
And this is why they must be paid market rates.
Mr Lee was speaking to reporters in Sydney at the end of his visit to Australia and New Zealand.
From parliamentary secretaries to ministers, the top level in the civil service is paid a total of S$46 million annually.
That is 0.13 percent of the total government expenditure or 0.022 percent of GDP.
On Monday, the civil service pay review will be announced in Parliament.
The Minister Mentor warned that the Singapore economy would be in jeopardy if it does not pay top dollar for top people.
He said if this S$46 million was cut to maybe S$36 million or S$26 million, the country would save S$20 million but in the process, would jeopardise an economy of S$210 billion.
"So for the average family earning S$1,500-S$3,000, we are talking of astronomical figures but for people like me in government, to deal with the money which we have accumulated by the sweat of our brow over the last 40 years, you have to pay the market rate or the man will up stakes and join Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and you would have an incompetent man and you would have lost money by the billions," said Mr Lee.
While other countries may have leaders who are paid less, Mr Lee said rewarding Singapore leaders well is a system that has worked and is above board.
He said: "If you are going to quarrel about S$46 million – up or down another S$10 to S$20 million – I say you don't have a sense of proportion."
And when it comes to benchmarking, Mr Lee said his own annual income, which is S$2.7 million, is a fraction of what the top manager in the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation (GIC) earns.
He said: "The cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government... your asset values will disappear, your apartments will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other persons' countries - foreign workers."
When asked to comment on the perception that political leaders should not be in it for the money, and instead, be ready to make that extra sacrifice for the good of the people, the Minister Mentor said it is an admirable sentiment.
But he added that it had taken much persuasion to get leaders like Dr Ng Eng Hen and Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, who had lucrative private practices, to give it all up to join politics, with no guarantee of success.
Do you think the world will stop spinning if LKY kicks the bucket? Never!!! Maybe the world will spin faster and better with less dead weight around. -
The profits the GIC created is drained from Singaporeans, not overseas. They overcharge us for transport, electricity, water, mobile phone, etc. I agree that long run returns is more important, but can you justify that such long run returns will occur with Global Crossing & Shin Corp, both major investments in Temasek's portfolio, such long run returns will never occur because Global Crossing is bound to face chapter 7 soon and Shin Corp's fate still hang in the balance. The other overseas investment that they have only made normal profits not supernormal profits, while on the hand we are losing capital from our investments like Global Crossing and Shin Corp.Originally posted by octet707:Well some fourmites here talk about the lost of a few billions in investments being nothing to the government but heres a question any idea how much profits GICs create for Singapore annually? Is there any investor in the world who never had any failed investments before? I believe as long as the long term returns r there short term losses must be accepted. Its all part of investment.
Oh n about LKY's point that the salaries of ministers need to be raised in order to remain competitive, i feel that its reasonable. Well how many people are that noble to put in alot more effort relative to his achievable income. Singapore is small. True we need to attact such noble people to the govt but with a population of 3m how many of such people exist in Singapore ? Theres has also been comments that the civil servants r no longer as motivated and effective as before, perhaps the salary could be attributed to it. Majority of the population who are taking up posts in the govt now or in the future have lived the life of a developed country citizen. Just like you or me. There couldnt be as much leaders as in the past who are fuelled by the desire for country even at the expense of monentary incentives.
So tell me this cannot, that cannot, so how ?
Why not share a more effective solution
Is there any investor in the world who never had any failed investments before? The investor that made 2 major investment blunders will cease to be an investor immediately, because he lost all his capital, no more money to invest. Most end up as superman. -
No resources? Our skilled labour force is our strongest resource. Like silicon for the production of semi-conductors, or rubber for the manufacture of your Nike Shoes and car tyres, they are cheap to acquire, but the skill and technology used to transform the material changes afew dollars of rubber into a Nike shoe of a few hundred dollars.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:gosh.. so many pple upset about MM Lee's speech..
Singapore has to be ran like a huge investment company, becos we are small, haf no resources, WE NEED THE HUGE RESERVES. Else singapore is NOTHING. U put incompetent pple at the top, ur reserves will disappear in no time. Singapore will disappear in no time too.
Compare Singapore wif our neighbours, in the past decades, who grew the most? If u do not attribute that to good governance, what do u attribute it to? Perhaps u would like to haf one of our neighbours as ur government? Maybe we will be more prosperous ya?
if ur not capable enuff, stop blaming the government about ur poverty, blame it on ur lack of brains and hardwork. Singapore's economy is moulded in such a way that if u use ur brains and is willing to work hard, u will succeed. Look at the pple earning few hundred K annually, do u see them complaining about the government?
if u think that ur capable enuff and u realli hate the government so much, den go ahead and migrate, singapore doesn't need whiny pple like u!!!
Running a small household is different than running a big household, moreover demographics is important. I won't mind the PM of Australian coming over to stand for elections, I will sure vote for him.
What makes you think those making a few hundred thousands are not complaining about the government? -
You can say whoever you are, but whose to believe, nobody can verify. For all I know you could be the next heir apparent.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:i do not come to a well to do family, i am not earning a fat paycheck, in fact i am still studying. i've been in diff jobs since my secondary school days, and know the difficulties of earning money. my parents are the type of pple that ur describing, feeling sour, stuck at that wage having difficulties moving up. but i also recognise that they ain't doing much to improve themselves. yes they work hard, but not smart. i am come to recognise that u dun blame any1 for ur low paycheck but urself for ur lack of competence. whats the point of whining? does it help? y not use ur brains and think of how to make money? there are so many cases of retrenched workers who make it gd after upgrading themselves or starting a biz. no, i did not quote these examples from the newspapers, but i'm refering to my fren's parents. as for the part "get out of my elite uncaring face", i will not use such phrases because it is plain rude, but neither will i sympathise wif those pple who juz sit around all day whining. 
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Typical no brainers, don't have any of their own ideas, they only choose to believe the trash the gov feeds them. Leech!!!!Originally posted by monkeywarriors:Typical suckers... the government needs more people like you guys to leech on...
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I suppose you go on the logic that if you cheat abit from many, it doesn't make you a cheat because the financial impact is insignificant. Skewed logic.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:hmmm.. u haf a point dere. but if u do some maths rite, our minister's pay is like juz a couple of dollars per year from each person in the workforce. does it realli make a big difference to any1's life? -
What makes you think that we are risking everything now? We already had alot of investment losses from Global Crossing and Shin Corp.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:so should singapore risk everything we haf now, wif no guarantee that the "talent who do not mind low pay" will do a better job? -
I'm amazed you can even regard that as logic...Originally posted by maurizio13:I suppose you go on the logic that if you cheat abit from many, it doesn't make you a cheat because the financial impact is insignificant. Skewed logic. -
What the government achieved is not a reflection on the quality of life for the general Singaporeans. Old folks picking out drink cans from rubbish bin the eke out a living. So what if you are ranked number 1 in business and competition. The quality of life is Singapore is not what I envisage it to be with it's current GDP. Singapore ranks 34 for place to live, work and play!!! Doesn't it tell you something, they might have the best port, airports, but Singaporeans generally have a low quality of life. They charge us so much for basic necessities that we lack the savings to see us thru our old age.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:are these not wad the government has achieved?
http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html -
It was a self inflicted burn, nobody burnt you.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:ouched, u burnt me again 
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Sad to see all our top Ministers being stucked perpetually in the lower level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Most who have attained the lower rungs climb to the next higher rung leading to the final self actualisation. Our ministers are only concern with the lowest rung.
Hehehe...... -
As what the Super Supreme Minister might say....
WHAT CAN YOU PEOPLE DO?????????????????? MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! -
What can the people do???
They can stop rowing their 'dragon boat'..... -
Shin Corp.....astute?Originally posted by Ferguson:How many billions are earned by their astute investments in shin corp and optus? -
wah everyone flame VivId CrItiQuE sia.
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if ur saying that talented pple wif passion will serve the country even when they're lowly paid, howcome i dun see talented pple joining the opposition? afraid of losing? lets see, if u get an opposition GRC made up of grads who returned from MIT, Harvard, etc, y wouldn't singaporeans vote for them? the fact is opposition is made up of mostly(not all) pple wif poor credentials, thats y they keep losing. n y are there so few talents joining the opposition? makes me wonder..
but anyway.. i'm sick of all that argument, its going nowhere.. if the government is realli tt bad, go ahead and vote for the opposition when the next election comes. if the government gets a strong mandate again, it juz shows that ur still the minority. -
True true.....Originally posted by Syndicate:But than again, we have said it many times. If from the start you wanna step into politics and you know prolly you can earn much more elsewhere den dont expect to gain too much in terms of financial from it. For the doctors, go open your own clinic or smt.
If talents need a lot of money to run their own nation, it is a sad day for patriotism.