Consolidation of all topics related to Ministers' Pay
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It will, I think the next cycle (downturn) is coming soon, and it should continue into the next election.Originally posted by Daddy!!:let me ask a blunt question: do you think that ministerial salaries would become the key campaigning issue for the general elections? What could opposition offer on this issue?
If I were to take office, I would cut all ministers' pay by half and devote the resources back to the poor.
Ministers' pay and help to the poor are all coming from the SAME source, taxpayers' money.
It literally means that the ministers are depriving the poor of additional resources to tide them over their daily worries of making ends meet. -
ya lor.
To me, a civil servant should still be willing to serve even after their salary is cut by 10%. -
higher pay does not fight corruption.
only credible check and balances works against corruption. -
What if the check and balances also want million dollar salaries to prevent corruption?Originally posted by Daddy!!:higher pay does not fight corruption.
only credible check and balances works against corruption.
Then how?
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What's the use of complaining so much when NOBODY is doing anything about it.
Will there be a protest? If so, when and where?
Will there be a petition? If so, who's submitting it and who will endorse it?
I can't believe that people from can Myanmar can stage protests in singapore and get away with it. They can protest in foreign territory, and SINGAPOREANS DON'T EVEN DARE PROTEST ON HOMEGROUND.
I can't believe that even GAYS can organise a sound petition to repeal 377a, and SINGAPORE AS A WHOLE DOES NOTHING ABOUT ABOUT THE MINISTERS' PAY HIKE. Seems like WHETHER SOMEONE ELSE'S ASS GETS POKED OR NOT MATTERS MORE THAN MINISTERS SIPHONING THE COUNTRY'S MONEY. -
Calm down, calm down.Originally posted by democracy:What's the use of complaining so much when NOBODY is doing anything about it.
Will there be a protest? If so, when and where?
Will there be a petition? If so, who's submitting it and who will endorse it?
I can't believe that people from can Myanmar can stage protests in singapore and get away with it. They can protest in foreign territory, and SINGAPOREANS DON'T EVEN DARE PROTEST ON HOMEGROUND.
I can't believe that even GAYS can organise a sound petition to repeal 377a, and SINGAPORE AS A WHOLE DOES NOTHING ABOUT ABOUT THE MINISTERS' PAY HIKE. Seems like WHETHER SOMEONE ELSE'S ASS GETS POKED OR NOT MATTERS MORE THAN MINISTERS SIPHONING THE COUNTRY'S MONEY. -
If you think our ministers' salaries are high, read this. (bad corporate results, still can get so much bonus.) While central banks are busy pumping money to fight the credit crisis, investment banks are busy giving out huge bonuses.
Bonuses on Wall Street Surge 14 Percent
Friday December 21, 1:42 am ET
By Joe Bel Bruno, AP Business Writer
As Wall Street Bleeds From Mortgage Crisis, Bonuses This Year Spike 14 Percent
NEW YORK (AP) -- This might have been one of Wall Street's most dismal years in a decade, but that hasn't stopped bonus checks from rising an average of 14 percent.
Four of the biggest U.S. investment banks -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos. -- will pay out about $49.6 billion in compensation this year. Of that, bonuses are traditionally estimated to represent 60 percent, or almost $30 billion.
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But that might not sit well with investors who held on to investment bank stocks this year -- and watched them plunge by up to 45 percent. Investment houses have been slammed by the credit crisis, and top executives this past week said they've yet to see a bottom.
Further, some of those executives have even agreed to forgo their bonuses this year to reflect the poor performance. Morgan Stanley CEO John Mack and Bear Stearns CEO Jimmy Cayne won't be collecting their payouts.
Mack received no cash bonus a year ago but received stock and options worth an estimated $40.2 million, well above his $800,000 base pay. Cayne received a bonus of $33.6 million in 2006 and base pay of $250,000.
Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein reportedly is in line for a bonus of up to $70 million this year, as the nation's largest investment bank has largely navigated past any mortgage-related losses. Lehman Brothers' CEO Richard Fuld was granted a $35 million stock bonus for 2007, up 4 percent from last year.
There had been some predictions the increase in bonuses would have been significantly higher. However, layoffs and top managers giving up their bonuses have curtailed that.
For the army of bankers and traders on Wall Street, it remains to be seen what their bonus checks will offer when they're handed out over the next several weeks. Top performers will still see some significant compensation as an incentive to not defect, while underperformers will suffer, executives at the banks said.
"If you were to normalize our business ... you would see we had a record year across the whole enterprise," said Morgan Stanley Chief Financial Officer Colm Kelleher.
Morgan Stanley, the second-largest U.S. investment bank, reported compensation rose 18 percent to $16.6 billion from $14 billion a year earlier. This comes after the investment bank reported Wednesday the first quarterly loss in its history amid a $9.4 billion writedown due to the credit crisis.
Bear Stearns, the fifth-biggest securities firm, posted the first loss in its 84-year history on Thursday after a $1.9 billion writedown. It reduced compensation this year by 21 percent to $3.4 billion from $4.3 billion in 2006 -- and members of its executive management committee, like Cayne, won't be collecting year-end bonuses.
"Compensation levels need to be maintained to reflect market levels," said Chief Financial officer Sam Molinaro.
At Lehman, compensation rose 9.5 percent to $9.5 billion, with bonuses accounting for an estimated $5.7 billion. The firm booked losses last week but managed to offset most of its mortgage writedowns and beat Wall Street expectations. Head count at the investment bank rose by 10 percent this year.
The bankers in the best position this year are at Goldman Sachs.
The nation's largest investment bank said Tuesday it was able to chalk up another record-breaking year with higher investment banking fees and smart bets on mortgage-backed bonds. It beat fourth-quarter projections.
In response, compensation at Goldman rose 20 percent to $20.1 billion. That means roughly $12 billion has been set aside for bonuses.
Still nervously waiting to find out about bonuses are the employees of Merrill Lynch & Co. The nation's largest brokerage won't report fourth-quarter results until January, and there has been some speculation newly appointed CEO John Thain might shake up the bonus structure.
Thain won't get a year-end bonus since he took the job on Dec. 1 after Merrill Lynch ousted Stanley O'Neal because of significant subprime losses. But he did take home a $15 million cash bonus just for taking the job. -
Wear black and appear in Centrepoint on 29 Dec to tell the leegime off that we are not for what they are doing.Originally posted by democracy:What's the use of complaining so much when NOBODY is doing anything about it.
Will there be a protest? If so, when and where?
Will there be a petition? If so, who's submitting it and who will endorse it?
I can't believe that people from can Myanmar can stage protests in singapore and get away with it. They can protest in foreign territory, and SINGAPOREANS DON'T EVEN DARE PROTEST ON HOMEGROUND.
I can't believe that even GAYS can organise a sound petition to repeal 377a, and SINGAPORE AS A WHOLE DOES NOTHING ABOUT ABOUT THE MINISTERS' PAY HIKE. Seems like WHETHER SOMEONE ELSE'S ASS GETS POKED OR NOT MATTERS MORE THAN MINISTERS SIPHONING THE COUNTRY'S MONEY. -
You know why because Singaporeans have negative attitude. Just the other day I had this auntie telling me if it is not within our control then we shall shut up. It is so disappointing! Singaporeans are not united, they are so kiasu, kiasi, so how to really protest like the people from Myanmar?Originally posted by democracy:What's the use of complaining so much when NOBODY is doing anything about it.
Will there be a protest? If so, when and where?
Will there be a petition? If so, who's submitting it and who will endorse it?
I can't believe that people from can Myanmar can stage protests in singapore and get away with it. They can protest in foreign territory, and SINGAPOREANS DON'T EVEN DARE PROTEST ON HOMEGROUND.
I can't believe that even GAYS can organise a sound petition to repeal 377a, and SINGAPORE AS A WHOLE DOES NOTHING ABOUT ABOUT THE MINISTERS' PAY HIKE. Seems like WHETHER SOMEONE ELSE'S ASS GETS POKED OR NOT MATTERS MORE THAN MINISTERS SIPHONING THE COUNTRY'S MONEY. -
They wanted to pay absurd amount because people are getting sick to serve the Lees. They are famous for their unrighteousness. There fore to retain their existing running dogs who are sick of their masters they willing to pay up to 21% which is even higher than 5% inflation. Imagine if you have a righteous leader even low wages you can also attract good men to come forward to serve without absurd amount.
Still remember even the best do not wish to be under the Lees? -
Nobody who is for justice and righteousness will want to work for the leegime. So when they said pay high to get talents, I think it is pay high to get people who are not for justice and righteous but to go all the way to obey the wishes and demands of the leegime.Originally posted by (human):
They wanted to pay absurd amount because people are getting sick to serve the Lees. They are famous for their unrighteousness. There fore to retain their existing running dogs who are sick of their masters they willing to pay up to 21% which is even higher than 5% inflation. Imagine if you have a righteous leader even low wages you can also attract good men to come forward to serve without absurd amount.
Still remember even the best do not wish to be under the Lees? -
Big big increments and bonuses for people who only care about the bottomline, profits and nothing else.Originally posted by Daddy!!:If you think our ministers' salaries are high, read this. (bad corporate results, still can get so much bonus.) While central banks are busy pumping money to fight the credit crisis, investment banks are busy giving out huge bonuses.
Bonuses on Wall Street Surge 14 Percent
Friday December 21, 1:42 am ET
By Joe Bel Bruno, AP Business Writer
As Wall Street Bleeds From Mortgage Crisis, Bonuses This Year Spike 14 Percent
NEW YORK (AP) -- This might have been one of Wall Street's most dismal years in a decade, but that hasn't stopped bonus checks from rising an average of 14 percent.
Four of the biggest U.S. investment banks -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos. -- will pay out about $49.6 billion in compensation this year. Of that, bonuses are traditionally estimated to represent 60 percent, or almost $30 billion.
ADVERTISEMENT
But that might not sit well with investors who held on to investment bank stocks this year -- and watched them plunge by up to 45 percent. Investment houses have been slammed by the credit crisis, and top executives this past week said they've yet to see a bottom.
Further, some of those executives have even agreed to forgo their bonuses this year to reflect the poor performance. Morgan Stanley CEO John Mack and Bear Stearns CEO Jimmy Cayne won't be collecting their payouts.
Mack received no cash bonus a year ago but received stock and options worth an estimated $40.2 million, well above his $800,000 base pay. Cayne received a bonus of $33.6 million in 2006 and base pay of $250,000.
Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein reportedly is in line for a bonus of up to $70 million this year, as the nation's largest investment bank has largely navigated past any mortgage-related losses. Lehman Brothers' CEO Richard Fuld was granted a $35 million stock bonus for 2007, up 4 percent from last year.
There had been some predictions the increase in bonuses would have been significantly higher. However, layoffs and top managers giving up their bonuses have curtailed that.
For the army of bankers and traders on Wall Street, it remains to be seen what their bonus checks will offer when they're handed out over the next several weeks. Top performers will still see some significant compensation as an incentive to not defect, while underperformers will suffer, executives at the banks said.
"If you were to normalize our business ... you would see we had a record year across the whole enterprise," said Morgan Stanley Chief Financial Officer Colm Kelleher.
Morgan Stanley, the second-largest U.S. investment bank, reported compensation rose 18 percent to $16.6 billion from $14 billion a year earlier. This comes after the investment bank reported Wednesday the first quarterly loss in its history amid a $9.4 billion writedown due to the credit crisis.
Bear Stearns, the fifth-biggest securities firm, posted the first loss in its 84-year history on Thursday after a $1.9 billion writedown. It reduced compensation this year by 21 percent to $3.4 billion from $4.3 billion in 2006 -- and members of its executive management committee, like Cayne, won't be collecting year-end bonuses.
"Compensation levels need to be maintained to reflect market levels," said Chief Financial officer Sam Molinaro.
At Lehman, compensation rose 9.5 percent to $9.5 billion, with bonuses accounting for an estimated $5.7 billion. The firm booked losses last week but managed to offset most of its mortgage writedowns and beat Wall Street expectations. Head count at the investment bank rose by 10 percent this year.
The bankers in the best position this year are at Goldman Sachs.
The nation's largest investment bank said Tuesday it was able to chalk up another record-breaking year with higher investment banking fees and smart bets on mortgage-backed bonds. It beat fourth-quarter projections.
In response, compensation at Goldman rose 20 percent to $20.1 billion. That means roughly $12 billion has been set aside for bonuses.
Still nervously waiting to find out about bonuses are the employees of Merrill Lynch & Co. The nation's largest brokerage won't report fourth-quarter results until January, and there has been some speculation newly appointed CEO John Thain might shake up the bonus structure.
Thain won't get a year-end bonus since he took the job on Dec. 1 after Merrill Lynch ousted Stanley O'Neal because of significant subprime losses. But he did take home a $15 million cash bonus just for taking the job.
But enough about the leadership in Singapore. -
Dont worry fellow singaporeans,Pxp will lose the next election, if all citizens can coorperate and deny them 2/3 majority, right now they control temasek and GIC, so the only way we can sack them is to vote for oppositions
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That's why they have to pay these ministers more, so that they can betray their own conscience and morality?Originally posted by qlqq9:Nobody who is for justice and righteousness will want to work for the leegime. So when they said pay high to get talents, I think it is pay high to get people who are not for justice and righteous but to go all the way to obey the wishes and demands of the leegime. -
hhaaaa indeed pay too high
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yea lol protest will only kana fine.. not worth itOriginally posted by charlize:Calm down, calm down. -
Haiz.Originally posted by maurizio13:That's why they have to pay these ministers more, so that they can betray their own conscience and morality?
Everybody has a price it seems -
You Get What You Give. -
Fred Wilson -
Here are some ministerial pay related posts I made in another forum. So here I am to see what kind of feedback I can get...
Just saw the front page of today's English papers. There's an article about how Singaporeans are affected by rising prices and cost of living. The most prominent part of this article is the picture of a family stating how they helped to cut costs by buying cheaper groceries and making less phone calls. That ties in with our ministers' advice to 'switch to cheaper products'.
Now to show willing, I am going to take this 'sound' piece of advice further. To cut costs and reduce the burden on taxpayers, we should 'switch to cheaper ministers'.
With the kind of money we are paying our PM, we can afford an American President, a British PM, an Australian PM and a German Chancellor. And the salary of one Singapore minister can pay for several British Cabinet Ministers (who probably will not tell us to 'switch to cheaper products'.
So what do you think fellows? Shall we send out Offer of Employment letters to Foreign Talents around the world? After all, according to our PAP masters, Foreign Talents can do the job where locals can't. Tony Blair lost his job as PM, so send him one. I think he will be more than happy if we pay him just one fifth of what we are paying our PM now. And send letters to the Clintons and Obama Barrack too. Only one can become the next American president. Tell both of them that if either one loses the American Presidential race, they can come work for us in Singapore. Again I am sure they will be more than happy to work for one fifth of LHL's pay. And Bill Clinton can have all the interns he wants (haha just my little joke).
I checked the Constitution and Penal Code. There's nothing in there that says private citizens can't send Offer of Employment letters to foreign politicians. Go on. Start typing and emailing!
That's our answer to your 'switch to cheaper products' advice, Mr Minister.
Crew -
Ok. Please help to draft this letter. Here my creativity seems to fizzle out. And oh, my friend just pointed out we missed a 'super funny politician' in her own words. Anyone know who the hell is Stephen Colbert? Appearently he does a comedy show and is running for USA president as an independent?
Here's what I got so far... a rough sketch. Ideas welcomed. Please brainstorm.
Dear [fill in name of politician here],
You might have heard about the high flying CPI and soaring costs of services and products in Singapore. Our elite team of ministers (who's incidentally also the highest paid bunch of politicians in the world) offered this advice to help counter inflation: switch to cheaper products.
We, the citizens of Singapore, were so impressed by the wisdom of our leaders that we have taken the advice to heart. Not only that, as responsible citizens, we have decided to carry this advice further and came up with our own strategy. That is to 'switch to cheaper ministers'.
We did some calculations [need some help with the current figures of ministers' salary here as the figures at SDP website is outdated] and came to the conclusion that if we were to replace the current PM and his cabinet with cheaper but more talented foreign imports, we could save millions for the Treasury in the short term and billions in the long run.
We are therefore pleased to offer you the post of Prime Minister and an annual salary of US400,000 dollars. It may be much lesser than the millions paid to our current Prime Minister, but why do you think we are seeking a replacement in the first place? US400,000 dollars is twice the amount the American president is earning and is not to be sneezed at. The job comes with various perks such as a guaranteed win at every election.
Your Faithful Servant,
Crew
Ok... that's the rough gist of it. Some suggestions sought. Do you think it would look better with more signatures? As it is not a legally binding letter, it need not be your real name. Your online moniker will do. And how to I send out an email with all the signatures? Do I put it down with your permission or forward it to everyone to sign? Also would it look better on those online petitions website?
Crew -
And here's more ideas for the letter. To make it look more 'official' like the ones they send to executives, here's my idea for the Benefits section...
Standard benefits for the Prime Minister of Singapore include the following:
-Guaranteed win at every General Election for Prime Minister and his party.
-Stock options and a seat on the board of directors in the GIC. The GIC is a global investment company established to manage Singapore's foreign reserves which amounts to more than US$100 billion. Rememer, the GIC motto is: Our money is your money!
-The spouse of the Prime Minister will be offered the post of CEO of Temasek Holdings, the executive arm of the GIC. It currently manages a portfolio of more than US$100 billion.
-Health, dental, life and disability insurance.
Duties and Responsibilites:
-Upon assuming office, the Prime Minister will form the new government. We at Singapore Inc. advise a complete overhaul of the Cabinet. Currently, a Singapore minister earn an annual salary of US$1.32 million. We advise appointing ministers who will be happy with US $314, 000. That is much lower than the current pay scale for a Singapore minister but twice the amount a US Cabinet Secretary is earning. With 15 Cabinet ministers (excluding the Senior Minister and Minister Mentor), this exercise to curb the excesses of the cabinet will save the Treasury US$ 15 million a year.
-We at Singapore Inc. advise that the posts of Senior Minister and Minister Mentor are redundant and a drain on the taxpayers. No other Prime Minister in the world needs to be advised by a Senior Minister and mentored by a Minister Mentor at the same time. Doing away with these redundacies will save the Treasury another US $4 million a year.
-Traditionally, Singapore has a President who is the ceremonial head of State. However, after Ong Teng Chong's term of office, what little executive power the post of President conferred has been further curtailed. We at Singapore Inc. therefore consider the current salary for the President at US $2.6 million to be an excess and an unnecessary drain on taxpayers. We advise keeping the ceremonial post of President but reducing his salary to US $ 315, 000 which is what on par with what the German President is getting.
-If our advice is taken and implemented, that will save the Treasury approximately US$ 21 million a year.
We look forward to you joining us.
Singapore Inc.
(For the people. By the people) -
Seriously, cut Ministers' pay, how much extra resources do you have? As I have wrote in another post, we have 18 Cabinet Ministers. If they average $2mil salary per year, that's just $36mil per year.
Take the extreme and they are paid nothing, that's just $36mil a year. What can you do with $36mil? Not very much if you are thinking about broad policies like giving every low income household food vouchers etc.
I'm just pointing out the numbers. I'm not using these numbers as an argument for or against Ministers' pay.
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Originally posted by t_a_s:
Dont worry fellow singaporeans,Pxp will lose the next election, if all citizens can coorperate and deny them 2/3 majority, right now they control temasek and GIC, so the only way we can sack them is to vote for oppositions
Although you have a point,but i like to politely remind us all
that in a Democracy, its the majority of votes that count.
who is casting the votes? sinaporeens of course.
and that is the bottom line. Singaporeans. Remember, its singaporeans we are talking about. They have maintained their position for 50 years or so. no change. negligible change has happened.
the key thing to note is 'singaporeans'.
we are not talking about Americans , Europeans or South Koreans nor japanese. All these are true 1st world democracies.
We are talking about another kind of democracy in this world. another true 1st world democracy, i have to reallly have to must say.
its now your burden to prove your predictions.
when you said that, I nearly laugh my socks off.
second key thing to note is the GRC systematica.
and by the way, why people call it the INC ?
I tot INC is a company operating in the private sector where its income is earned by winning its competition in the market and impressing and satisfying its customers who then willing to pay and pay ?
INC ? who owns the INC? who has that right to use the income of the INC to spend on its employees?
if this is another country, what you said could happen.
This is the little dot.
The people are 'too smart' not to continue to let them reign.
by the way, do you think that the net insurgence has indirectly benefitted some people by way of compensatedsion? money can buy what ?
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Singa Crew makes some sharp points, and their satire is right on the mark - an online petition, however satirical, is certainly one way of drawing attention to your position.
However, as with most such things, the real issue is how to gain publicity for your stance. Singa Crew's petition will make few people aware of the issues if they don't actually read it.
Words can spread information and change minds, but the real challenge here is making them heard in the world beyond this forum post on this message board.
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Originally posted by Singa Crew:
And here's more ideas for the letter. To make it look more 'official' like the ones they send to executives, here's my idea for the Benefits section...
Standard benefits for the Prime Minister of Singapore include the following:
-Guaranteed win at every General Election for Prime Minister and his party.
-Stock options and a seat on the board of directors in the GIC. The GIC is a global investment company established to manage Singapore's foreign reserves which amounts to more than US$100 billion. Rememer, the GIC motto is: Our money is your money!
-The spouse of the Prime Minister will be offered the post of CEO of Temasek Holdings, the executive arm of the GIC. It currently manages a portfolio of more than US$100 billion.
-Health, dental, life and disability insurance.
Duties and Responsibilites:
-Upon assuming office, the Prime Minister will form the new government. We at Singapore Inc. advise a complete overhaul of the Cabinet. Currently, a Singapore minister earn an annual salary of US$1.32 million. We advise appointing ministers who will be happy with US $314, 000. That is much lower than the current pay scale for a Singapore minister but twice the amount a US Cabinet Secretary is earning. With 15 Cabinet ministers (excluding the Senior Minister and Minister Mentor), this exercise to curb the excesses of the cabinet will save the Treasury US$ 15 million a year.
-We at Singapore Inc. advise that the posts of Senior Minister and Minister Mentor are redundant and a drain on the taxpayers. No other Prime Minister in the world needs to be advised by a Senior Minister and mentored by a Minister Mentor at the same time. Doing away with these redundacies will save the Treasury another US $4 million a year.
-Traditionally, Singapore has a President who is the ceremonial head of State. However, after Ong Teng Chong's term of office, what little executive power the post of President conferred has been further curtailed. We at Singapore Inc. therefore consider the current salary for the President at US $2.6 million to be an excess and an unnecessary drain on taxpayers. We advise keeping the ceremonial post of President but reducing his salary to US $ 315, 000 which is what on par with what the German President is getting.
-If our advice is taken and implemented, that will save the Treasury approximately US$ 21 million a year.
We look forward to you joining us.
Singapore Inc.
(For the people. By the people)The PM is incompetent, that's why there are needs for a SM and a MM.
Since PM is incompetent, suggest that we not vote him in next election, let other more competent individuals take up the post of PM.