RMAF MiG-29 can down an RSAF F-16 easily with one shot...
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[QUOTE]I still don't think the RMAF can win the RSAF in dogfights.[/QUOTE]
That is a presumption although a highly justified one since on paper Rsaf do have longer flight hours and such compared to Rmaf. But still, no one can tell anything until a real war breaks out *touch wood* -
Stop predicting lah.... you want.. you can go to little india... bring a deck of card and your pet parrot and do your predicting there... not in here... bo liow one...Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:1.the rmaf's fulcrum's hardpoints were modified to enable the R-77
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BY the same presumption... all singapore F-16s and F-5S also have AMRAAM hardpoint... so RSAF must also have the AMRAAM lah?? so naive..... 
2.why do you say msia doesnt have the r-77??its not that they cant afford it...or its not that russia would sell it.......
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and singapore cant afford the AMRAAM??? and for your info... the russians may be willing to sell.. but even they must kowtow abit to US pressure... afterall.... they do gets billions of dollars in aid from the US and the IMF... how much did malaysia give russia?? more palm oil!!??
3.our fulcrums use 3rd level maintainance.....i admit the serviceblity has been poor but with ATSC the servicebility of the fulcrums should be better...
****Tell that to your pilots...
4.what will you do if i DO get you a picture of the rmaf r-77s??
do you know how to recognise them??
****Show first then talk later...
currently we have 7 hawk 108 and 17 hawk 208...
the F/A-18Ds we have are superior to your F-16 block 52's in ATG roles....
**** says who?? singapore's F-16 block 52 isnt your normal block 52.... it got lots of classified stuff as can be seen from that dorsal spine... how you know that RSAF F-16 is inferior to your standard buy off the shelf hornet?? afterall... singapore falcon is customized built one... so dont any how assume 
the RSAF is better in numbers...
i predict that b4 2005, we will also get AWACs...
2005...... might as well predict singapore got ICBM.... -
Oh come one Tripwire... give the poor boy some air...
I think it all has to be put into perspective here... command of the skies is essential in modern warfare, but is ultimately won by co-ordinated actions on the ground...
You can try a Kosovo and drop bombs for 90 days and not have much to show for it... for all the bombs they dropped in Afghanistan, they still needed the Northern Alliance to overrun positions to expel the talibans to declare a victory.
I'm no romantic when it comes to air-war... and Sg is a little tank-light in its formation (officially)... might lack a little punch to break through and a little speed to advance fast enough to matter... -
I seriously doubt that the Hawks meant as TRAINERS will prove any use as strike aircraft. These are planes built as trainers and flown as trainers not trainers by the result of some conversion and thus, i think it will be a pretty big joke to use them for strike. Also, the flight time of Singapore's pilots are comparable with that of the top European air forces. If Malaysia tried to increase their pilots' skill by doing the same, they'll probably have to sell so much palm oil they got nothing left...
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I do believe the hawk fighters do have some limited strike ability, though not that advanced.Originally posted by laser51088:I seriously doubt that the Hawks meant as TRAINERS will prove any use as strike aircraft. These are planes built as trainers and flown as trainers not trainers by the result of some conversion and thus, i think it will be a pretty big joke to use them for strike. Also, the flight time of Singapore's pilots are comparable with that of the top European air forces. If Malaysia tried to increase their pilots' skill by doing the same, they'll probably have to sell so much palm oil they got nothing left...
They could only be deployed effectively if MAF controls the airspace, which I doubt so.
Although our pilots do have more training, but that only provides them an edge, not a 100% guarrantee. In war, nothing is certain. -
the hawk 108 is mainly for training...
2.the hawk 208 is for trainig and light attack..they are armed with sidewingers....
RMAF migs were training with RAAF hornets,and they simulated launches against the hornets......
ill try to get a pic of the rmaf r-77s....
our migs were also upgraded to have a heavier combat load.... -
"If you shot down a malaysian, he was never there and never got shot down. If you shot down a Singapore pilot, he would want to know what happened and where he made a mistake. That is a sign of a country that is prepared for war." I read this quote from an aviation website, i think it was quited from an Australian or American pilot who flew with RMAF and RSAF in exercises.
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From an Australian pilot.Originally posted by EXCO:"If you shot down a malaysian, he was never there and never got shot down. If you shot down a Singapore pilot, he would want to know what happened and where he made a mistake. That is a sign of a country that is prepared for war." I read this quote from an aviation website, i think it was quited from an Australian or American pilot who flew with RMAF and RSAF in exercises. -
Well, RSAF pilots constantly train with ACMI. it is common to get "shot down" during simulated dogfights or air 2 air combats. And lessons learnt during simulation will definitely help during real combat. Thus RSAF pilots who work with foreign professional pilots like those of USAF, RAAF, RAF, FAF, RCAF etc. are not afraid to admit that they are shot down. In fact they wouldn't deny that because the ACMI instrument register everything...Originally posted by EXCO:"If you shot down a malaysian, he was never there and never got shot down. If you shot down a Singapore pilot, he would want to know what happened and where he made a mistake. That is a sign of a country that is prepared for war." I read this quote from an aviation website, i think it was quited from an Australian or American pilot who flew with RMAF and RSAF in exercises.
As for RMAF, they don't have ACMI yet, and thus they are still in the game of "who shot who and who didn't shoot who". -
Originally posted by Joe Black:Well, RSAF pilots constantly train with ACMI. it is common to get "shot down" during simulated dogfights or air 2 air combats. And lessons learnt during simulation will definitely help during real combat. Thus RSAF pilots who work with foreign professional pilots like those of USAF, RAAF, RAF, FAF, RCAF etc. are not afraid to admit that they are being "shot down". In fact they wouldn't deny that because the ACMI instrument registers everything...
As for RMAF, they don't have ACMI yet, and thus they are still in the children's game of "who shot who and who didn't shoot who". -
Sure......MiG29s are cool....but are the pilots competent? And longer range weapons are not necessarily accurate. If I am not wronmg, in real combat, the AARAM was fired 4 times. Thrice by the israelis and they have to ground their entire air force to do that so that there be no other targets in the sky except enemy panes. You need superior IFF to do so. Furthermore, throughout history of missle combat, most kills are by cannons and this require pilot skill.....doubt Msian pilots are good thanz 2 shortage of flight time :p
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Singapore bought IFF systems from US recently. The most recent was a purchase of 18 for its F-16s. Found it from US FMS(Foreign Military Sales)
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flying time??
we can fly in simultors....
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sure... simulate all u want... can't beat the real thing sometimes... its only good to attain a minimum level of competency in simulation... beyond that, u need real air time and combat experience. Sg has no combat experience too, but our pilots sure spend more time BOTH in simulators and in the air.
Meantime, why don't u just lie back and "simulate" yourself a wet-dream... -
haha.. about Mig-29 and F-16.. there was a news report once about a tacitical simulated air warfare between a USAF F-16 and A Germany Air Force MiG-29. This was done to see which aircraft is better in terms of air-to-air capability. In the end, the MiG-29 won the battle.. not b'cos it had superior avionics or air-to-air weapons, it depends on the pilot skills to bring the mazimum advantage out of their fighter jet. Knowing what your plane can do for u and using it, is half the battle won.
The RMAF have AA-12 Adder Medium Range missiles... i'm not too sure about russian equipment...due to the lousy quality sometimes...like the pair of Su-27 Flanker which crashed recently... it shows to tell u how bad are the maintenance on russian equipment...
I trust our RSAF has adequate training to protect our skies in times of conflict. that's what i can tell.our pilots have good training abroad, attend during schools (e.g Top Gun Academy..etc..) participate in different exercises... we have one of the best combat proven fighter jets too... the F-16. -
Laser no offense it is 20 F-16 actually
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And so our friend now talks about simulators... Have you seen one of RSAF's simulators? you know... they can move and have 360 degrees of visible space! WoW!Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:flying time??
we can fly in simultors.... What simulators do you have? care to introduce us? -
'The MiG-29 has a few advantages over its more electronically advanced American counterparts. At about 40 miles apart, the American planes have the advantage because of avionics. At 10 miles the advantage is turning to the MiG. At five miles out, because of the MiG weapons sight and better maneuverability, the advantage is to the MiG. The weapons sight is a helmet-mounted system that allows the missile to follow the line of sight of the pilot's helmet. Where the pilot looks is where it goes'
Got this from the net
MiG-29 is superior , but not Malaysian MiG-29s -
In terms of pilot technology Russian planes have the advantage. Did Malaysia accquire the Helmet Mounted Sights as part of the deal? Do they have the capability to use it to its full potential? Lastly, do they have a chance to use it at all?! The 5 miles cap of the HMS is very limiting, in aerial battles nowadays, the missiles are locked on and fired before the pilots can see each other. (note, this does not imply BVR capabilities.)
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There you have it. You can boast about how good the system is but if it is not combat proven it is not a fully functional weapon. Remember about the Patriot Missile? It was said to be very efficient to stop the scud missile. One shot one target. But in the end it proves that it is not as accuate or effective as it shouldOriginally posted by FulcrumN:the RMAF r-77s still have a longer range than the aim120..
the only advantage of the aim120 is that it is combat proven -
why does everyone here think our MiGs are so lousy????nvm......
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Because facts show it only has a low 30% operational rate, due to parts problem (russian supplier problem) and exceptional short life span of the parts (quality control problem).Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:why does everyone here think our MiGs are so lousy????nvm......
That is to say you have 20 planes but only 6 is combat ready. The rest will be sitting ducks or strip as spare parts.
Due to parts problem, maybe some of the combat ready plane cannot use afterburner burn, in case they burnt out the engine, cannot use their super duper helmet mount sight because the sensitive gadget went ko-ya and need to buy new one....
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It's a known fact Russia "water down" their products for export. What malaysia got is not the same standard as what the Russian has.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:why does everyone here think our MiGs are so lousy????nvm......
Even assuming you have no spare parts replacement probs, is not logical to assume you have 100% available. You need to do maintaince and reapirs. Assuming 80% uptime (doubt so), RSAF still out number malaysia anytime at least 2:1 ratio.
Also that is to assume the Mig29 managed to find our planes before they launch. Turning on your radar to hunt will be asking for HARM
Our jets do have the advantage of better C3I, radar coverage by ground and air assets. =)
In any conflicts, is not who the better equipment, but also pilot training, radar coverage, C3I, intelligence, uptime, intelligence etc. We did not say your migs are lousy...Just that we take into account of other factors that affect the outcome, and you don't. -
my view of russian fighter jets...impressive...but needs to be maintain properly...in fact..russian designers keep in mind of designing sometime which can be maintain easily during wartime and take off from unpaved run ways...
probably our views on russian fighter jets are sometimes a bit biased.. b'cos we do not fully understand and see the clear picture... MiG-29 can be said as one of the best among the MiG family...when it does the cobra manueovre...that's v. cool...v. few planes can actually do that...
as i said bf, it is the pilot skill that counts...technology comes in later... -
I dont agree with you
You mean that a skillfull pilot on a f-5 can gun down MiG-29s ?