Breeding a new generation of quitters
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Wow, you are concerned about a supposed brain drain after asking one woman who is already working overseas and already has an obvious inclination to work overseas. Where is your objectivity? You also asked a Korean and you come to a conclusion that foreigners don't want to work in Singapore based on this one person? For your info, there are surveys done by impartial organizations that rate Singapore as the best place to live in for expatriates: http://www.eca-international.com/ASP/ViewArticle2.asp?ArticleID=150Originally posted by lighthand:I have been out of the SG for a month for business in Korea;
I noticed alot of Singaporeans working for MNCs as well as overseas startups, when I ask one of them (just as a joke) "So are you going to quit the country too?" the answer I got really got be thinking... "The first chance I get. Why do you think I am here now?"
The worst part of it is the lady seems no more than 26 - 30 years of age, at this age you are at your peak. I fear if we do not address this trend soon, the new generation will leave. I know there's also new citizens coming into SG, however will they be able to completely replace the ones we loss?
I asked a very senior engineer (Korean) what he thinks of SG, his reply was that "SG is wonderful, you have a great gov". I follow up with the next question would he like to come work and stay in SG? "Sorry but no, your country don't give me as much freedom as my country does".
Makes one wonder......
Get your facts right -
Cool...soulwinner you made the right choice...where would you like to go? MElbourne, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Perth, Seattle...Shanghai?Originally posted by soulwinner:I am consider leaving too..
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Besides Pyongyang, I don't think there's anywhere on this planet - while you may make an issue about the poor quality of life material-wise or security issues in many parts of the developing world, at least you get a lower/more affordable cost of living - that is worse than Singapore on every front imaginable...Originally posted by Coquitlam:Cool...soulwinner you made the right choice...where would you like to go? MElbourne, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Perth, Seattle...Shanghai?
PS : Personally, of all the places I've ever resided in (and I mean for quite a substantial period of time), Geneva, New York and Los Angeles remain for me the most conducive environment for work and recreation... -
Singapore is ranked 17th in the list of world most expensive cities, behind, seoul, toyko, hong kong, beijing, osaka, so what are you talking about?Originally posted by walesa:Besides Pyongyang, I don't think there's anywhere on this planet - while you may make an issue about the poor quality of life material-wise or security issues in many parts of the developing world, at least you get a lower/more affordable cost of living - that is worse than Singapore on every front imaginable... -
People emigrate for a vast number of reasons. If cost of living were the only issue, there'd be tonnes of people emigrating to Zimbabwe, Zambia and Zaire. So what is it exactly do you not understand?Originally posted by Gazelle:Singapore is ranked 17th in the list of world most expensive cities, behind, seoul, toyko, hong kong, beijing, osaka, so what are you talking about? -
Cost of living in Zimbabwe is about the same a Manila, Zambia is even more expensive than Amsterdam. Not really the cheapest place on earth.Originally posted by walesa:People emigrate for a vast number of reasons. If cost of living were the only issue, there'd be tonnes of people emigrating to Zimbabwe, Zambia and Zaire. So what is it exactly do you not understand? -
Are you serious? Pyongyang must be a paradise then...Originally posted by Gazelle:Cost of living in Zimbabwe is about the same a Manila, Zambia is even more expensive than Amsterdam.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? That just says something about the fact that emigration isn't determined by cost of living alone. If that were the case, why should there be more people wanting to emigrate to the US than Zimbabwe or Zambia?Originally posted by Gazelle:I have yet to see tonnes people emigrating to Manila and Amsterdam, have you? -
hmmm...all soulwinner wanted to know where are places he can go to...hmmm
Yup, agree that people emigrate for many reasons....I emigrated because of the system here and other intangibles like wide open spaces, no NS for my future children and to withdraw my cpf....
Oh well...I would sure encourage my friends to leave Sillypore as well... -
Just trying to highlight to you that the poorest country in the world is not necessary the cheapest to live in. think you need to get that facts right first.Originally posted by walesa:Aren't you contradicting yourself? That just says something about the fact that emigration isn't determined by cost of living alone. If that were the case, why should there be more people wanting to emigrate to the US than Zimbabwe or Zambia? -
Why don't we take it from the horse's mouth instead?
If we didn't have a "quitter" problem that is causing us our best talents, does one seriously think that there would be this talk of "quitters" and "stayers" in parliment in the first place?
Would our government be worried about the brain drain?
The problem is that to be the top talent often carries several attributes that would be undesirable to the current system: the desire to take risks and make very pragmatic decisions, question the status quo, and affect change.
Granted these attributes can be very helpful to the current system, but it is a double edge sword. A lot of our policies in place unfortunately are at odds with these attributes.
It seems like some just want to have their cake and eat it.
Was it not like the time where they were pushing Singaporeans to be more creative, and then adding the afterword "but this creativity must be something that we can accept"... wanting you to think out of the box but yet putting you in one.
Is Singapore a good place for local talent? I'm not too sure. When importing FTs you can pick and choose what attributes you want import only those that agree with you. But you don't have this ability with local talent, which might have different goals and views from you.
In the end, it's not really strange there's this brain drain. -
I presume you are now living in the pussies land australia and you are saying that their whiteman's system is better than singapore.Originally posted by Coquitlam:hmmm...all soulwinner wanted to know where are places he can go to...hmmm
Yup, agree that people emigrate for many reasons....I emigrated because of the system here and other intangibles like wide open spaces, no NS for my future children and to withdraw my cpf....
Oh well...I would sure encourage my friends to leave Sillypore as well...
I choose to stay in singapore because I prefer nightlife, cheap asian food, low crime in this country and good public transportation. As for CPF, I am growing the money at around 25% per year through investment and using them to pay for mortgage on property that is appreciating.
As for NS I think it can be a good experience for kids who have never got kick in the butt before. Plus if you know how to keng, why worry. -
You are making it sound like in Singapore there is no other organisation other than GLC.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Why don't we take it from the horse's mouth instead?
If we didn't have a "quitter" problem that is causing us our best talents, does one seriously think that there would be this talk of "quitters" and "stayers" in parliment in the first place?
Would our government be worried about the brain drain?
The problem is that to be the top talent often carries several attributes that would be undesirable to the current system: the desire to take risks and make very pragmatic decisions, question the status quo, and affect change.
Granted these attributes can be very helpful to the current system, but it is a double edge sword. A lot of our policies in place unfortunately are at odds with these attributes.
It seems like some just want to have their cake and eat it.
Was it not like the time where they were pushing Singaporeans to be more creative, and then adding the afterword "but this creativity must be something that we can accept"... wanting you to think out of the box but yet putting you in one.
Is Singapore a good place for local talent? I'm not too sure. When importing FTs you can pick and choose what attributes you want import only those that agree with you. But you don't have this ability with local talent, which might have different goals and views from you.
In the end, it's not really strange there's this brain drain.
I believe the "brain drain" problem is targeting at people who have taken up government scholarship and need to serve bond. As for other, I dont think there is any issue at all because we have the right to choose who we want to work for. -
I am very sorry if I gave the impression that I was putting out facts and figures.Originally posted by kecang_puteh:Wow, you are concerned about a supposed brain drain after asking one woman who is already working overseas and already has an obvious inclination to work overseas. Where is your objectivity? You also asked a Korean and you come to a conclusion that foreigners don't want to work in Singapore based on this one person? For your info, there are surveys done by impartial organizations that rate Singapore as the best place to live in for expatriates: http://www.eca-international.com/ASP/ViewArticle2.asp?ArticleID=150
Get your facts right
As you have pointed out I am basing upon just 2 persons feedback, and sharing my own feelings on the issue. At no point did I say "Look this is what's happening!", but just my feel on it.
It's like the man who was worried about his job and future, and was rebutted with a "Get your face out of my uncaring elite face"? (I hope I got the quote right). Highlighting ones thoughts and fears, has always been ways for humans to move forward. If we wait for facts and figures to hit us, don't you think it might just be a little too late? Won't it be better to address the issues earlier? -
poor gazelle doesn't get it huh...no one said white men are better..
all i said is that anyone who wants to leave should leave and no one should stop them...and anyone who chooses to stay should stay too, after all, Sillypore needs people like gazelle to help build and make Sillypore a better place....
simpple as that...I would of course encourage others to leave....nothing wrong with that...its freedom of choice and its a personal decision -
Sorry I am not talking about if you like men or women, black brown white or yellow. What I am asking is if you are living in white pussie land australia.Originally posted by Coquitlam:poor gazelle doesn't get it huh...no one said white men are better..
all i said is that anyone who wants to leave should leave and no one should stop them...and anyone who chooses to stay should stay too, after all, Sillypore needs people like gazelle to help build and make Sillypore a better place....
simpple as that...I would of course encourage others to leave....nothing wrong with that...its freedom of choice and its a personal decision
After all those white men will need white d.ick suckers like you to satisfy their craving for cheap labours. -
woo----.. horny (pun intended) racist alert!Originally posted by Gazelle:Sorry I am not talking about if you like men or women, black brown white or yellow. What I am asking is if you are living in white pussie land australia.
After all those white men will need white d.ick suckers like you to satisfy their craving for cheap labours. do i smell a ban? -
Hmm... I am guessing you are the Chinese Chauvinist who is anti-Western values in general. Conservative huh...Originally posted by Gazelle:Sorry I am not talking about if you like men or women, black brown white or yellow. What I am asking is if you are living in white pussie land australia.
After all those white men will need white d.ick suckers like you to satisfy their craving for cheap labours. -
I think you are born into a silly family. Is that what you are? A family full of stupid people?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Hmm... I am guessing you are the Chinese Chauvinist who is anti-Western values in general. Conservative huh... -
I'm on my way to a Physics Bachelors degree. What piece of shit for a degree do you have?Originally posted by Gazelle:I think you are born into a silly family. Is that what you are? A family full of stupid people?
Mind you, it's a US University degree at a top 25 university in the US. I could graduate if I want to but I also wanted a Math degree... -
So you are still a student. Maybe you should get a few years of working experience under your belt first before talking about migration.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I'm on my way to a Physics Bachelors degree. What piece of shit for a degree do you have?
Mind you, it's a US University degree at a top 25 university in the US. I could graduate if I want to but I also wanted a Math degree...
Unless you are coming from Ivy league uni in USA, all other degree are the same. (Of course TOP 25 will make it sound better)
And ya, so you are not Sillyporean like some LAM is saying about singapore? -
What you've highlighted is peripheral and absolutely nonsensical (especially about Zambia being more expensive than Amsterdam). Whether the poorest country in the world is the absolute cheapest to live in is another matter. It's obviously your facts - or your head - that need remedy. Nobody ever said the poorest countries are necessarily the cheapest to live in if you were subjected to those conditions. If you're going to emigrate to Zimbabwe, you're not assuming your savings/assets are that of an average Zimbabwean, are you? If so, how you could regard your "cost of living" as being the same as the locals is beyond me. That said, nobody in his/her right mind will up sticks and move to settle elsewhere on the premise of "most inexpensive" cost of living alone...Originally posted by Gazelle:Just trying to highlight to you that the poorest country in the world is not necessary the cheapest to live in. think you need to get that facts right first.
It doesn't say a lot Singapore is ranked as the 17th most expensive city to live in when the net migration rate for many of those ranked above Singapore is actually higher. -
Nah, he's just a crony of "Napoleon" (read the character from Orwell's Animal Farm...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Hmm... I am guessing you are the Chinese Chauvinist who is anti-Western values in general. Conservative huh... -
I'm sure CalTech, MIT, Stanford and UC Berkely are absolutely horrendous schools prone to racist attacks and the odd lunatic going round gunning people down...Originally posted by Gazelle:Unless you are coming from Ivy league uni in USA, all other degree are the same. (Of course TOP 25 will make it sound better)
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Originally posted by walesa:
a) Wat was your intention for quoting the 3 african countries when we talk about cost of living? (Have you been there? do you have relatives and friends living there?)
What you've highlighted is peripheral and absolutely nonsensical (especially about Zambia being more expensive than Amsterdam). Whether the poorest country in the world is the absolute cheapest to live in is another matter. It's obviously your facts - or your head - that need remedy. Nobody ever said the poorest countries are necessarily the cheapest to live in [b]if you were subjected to those conditions. That said, nobody in his/her right mind will up sticks and move to settle elsewhere on the premise of "most inexpensive" cost of living alone...
It doesn't say a lot Singapore is ranked as the 17th most expensive city to live in when the net migration rate for many of those ranked above Singapore is actually higher.[/b]
b) Before start barking, would you also believe the Lagos in Nigeria and Douala cameroon is actually more expensive than Amsterdam? -
ermmmmm...... not to forget the other group, the new generation of "YES" sir.Originally posted by lighthand:I have been out of the SG for a month for business in Korea;
I noticed alot of Singaporeans working for MNCs as well as overseas startups, when I ask one of them (just as a joke) "So are you going to quit the country too?" the answer I got really got be thinking... "The first chance I get. Why do you think I am here now?"
The worst part of it is the lady seems no more than 26 - 30 years of age, at this age you are at your peak. I fear if we do not address this trend soon, the new generation will leave. I know there's also new citizens coming into SG, however will they be able to completely replace the ones we loss?
I asked a very senior engineer (Korean) what he thinks of SG, his reply was that "SG is wonderful, you have a great gov". I follow up with the next question would he like to come work and stay in SG? "Sorry but no, your country don't give me as much freedom as my country does".
Makes one wonder......
you, you will say this this this.
YES sir.
you, ya you, you will not say this and that.
YES sir.
you. you go do this but not that.
YES sir.
I LOVE Speaker Corner.