[BBC] Europe MPs 'gagged' by Singapore
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I blogged here http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/are-you-talking-to-me-punk/ about LKY going to NZ to visit, amongst others, their Leader of the Opposition.
If LKY can go to NZ to pay a harmless diplomatic call on their opposition politicians, why can't European MPs come to S'pore to do the same???
Anyway, if these Eurpoeans had spoken here, maybe 100 people in the forum would have heard them, and no global media would have reported this kind of run-of-the-mill talk. Now that they have been denied to the right to speak here, the global media is reporting, again, on how S'pore suppresses free speech... Strategic decision?!?!???? Haha...... -
Beg to differ.If the opposition is smart, they would have been voted into power a long time ago. The opposition still ain't coming close to grappling with bread and butter issues but so far Workers Party is getting close.Originally posted by missqi:The opposition is very smart.
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That'll depend on how large a diplomatic call, if a international press conference is put up and a coupd'etat is incurred, what kind of trouble is LKY in?Originally posted by blueheeler:I blogged here http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/are-you-talking-to-me-punk/ about LKY going to NZ to visit, amongst others, their Leader of the Opposition.
If LKY can go to NZ to pay a harmless diplomatic call on their opposition politicians, why can't European MPs come to S'pore to do the same???
Anyway, if these Eurpoeans had spoken here, maybe 100 people in the forum would have heard them, and no global media would have reported this kind of run-of-the-mill talk. Now that they have been denied to the right to speak here, the global media is reporting, again, on how S'pore suppresses free speech... Strategic decision?!?!???? Haha...... -
Excuse me? If the Govt ever bothered with Bread and Butter issues, it wouldn't run off raising GST, raising their pay etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. et al infinitum.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Beg to differ.If the opposition is smart, they would have been voted into power a long time ago. The opposition still ain't coming close to grappling with bread and butter issues but so far Workers Party is getting close.
Seriously, quit the bread and butter nonsense already! Are you going to believe every single solemn holy word of the Govt as holy truth and regard all else to be blasphemy? -
At least, the present government is concerned about fixing the economy although they are out to benefit themselves first.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Excuse me? If the Govt ever bothered with Bread and Butter issues, it wouldn't run off raising GST, raising their pay etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. et al infinitum.
Seriously, quit the bread and butter nonsense already! Are you going to believe every single solemn holy word of the Govt as holy truth and regard all else to be blasphemy? -
Well, he visited the opposition leader, and in the context of his stature, it's akin to acknowledging him/her. It's something practised around the world. If Nancy Pelosi can visit Syria, all these are part of international norms.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:That'll depend on how large a diplomatic call, if a international press conference is put up and a coupd'etat is incurred, what kind of trouble is LKY in?
What is at stake here is that apparently our govt believes that we can do the same abroad, and others cannot come here and offer their views. This is something very duplicitious. -
Your statement is a fallacy. Fixing the economy? There are many things they could have done, most of which are non-economic, but will influence the economic climate and the relative attractiveness of Singapore to foreign investors and real talent.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:At least, the present government is concerned about fixing the economy although they are out to benefit themselves first.
Not a lax scheme of import substitution where there is talent duplication and a keen, overrated belief that one can fix the economy by only focusing on economic measures. -
And how have they fixed the economy? The manufacturing sector hasn't changed much and still dominates the economy, with biotech filling the void left by the electronics sector and it is by no means as strong as the electronics sector every was at its height and instead fluctuates as hell.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:At least, the present government is concerned about fixing the economy although they are out to benefit themselves first.
The only area I see some degree of improvement, in which was largely due to foreign MNCs was in the financial sector and local banks had to play catch up.
So what has changed really? Anything?
And quit the apologist nonsense. There is a clear conflict of self-interest here and hopeless lack of accountability, not least most of the MPs that were "voted" in are nothing more than pansies and scum of the earth. -
Are we so banal that only bread and butter issues are important? This only reinforces a communal belief that citizens should not dabble in national issues or international issues, and only focus on their grassroots. It's a deficiency.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Beg to differ.If the opposition is smart, they would have been voted into power a long time ago. The opposition still ain't coming close to grappling with bread and butter issues but so far Workers Party is getting close. -
At least, the present government is concerned about fixing the economy although they are out to benefit themselves first.
Herzog, I think I have to disagree. For too long, S'pore was dwelling on low-to-mid-end 'manufacturing'. When the ASEAN/China competition speeded up, S'pore made a slow switch from 'manufacturing' to 'creative industries' and high-tech R&D. But then, the govt acknowleged that our rote-learning school-system was NOT churning out enough 'creative' thinkers, thereby having to hasten 'creative' learning in our schools. But then again, 'creativity' in schools are left to teachers schooled in the old 'memorising' manner, so there's now a mismatch.
So, are we still wondering why the govt is paying so much $$$ to buy foreign talent and infrastructure to staff our many high-tech R&D vnetures? And also to get the casinos in to earn more forex? -
Singapore was the last man standing during the 97financial crisis and Singapore government has made very swift decision in reviving the economy during recession. If not for SARS and SEP11, singapore economy could have recover much faster.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:And how have they fixed the economy? The manufacturing sector hasn't changed much and still dominates the economy, with biotech filling the void left by the electronics sector and it is by no means as strong as the electronics sector every was at its height and instead fluctuates as hell.
The only area I see some degree of improvement, in which was largely due to foreign MNCs was in the financial sector and local banks had to play catch up.
So what has changed really? Anything?
And quit the apologist nonsense. There is a clear conflict of self-interest here and hopeless lack of accountability, not least most of the MPs that were "voted" in are nothing more than pansies and scum of the earth. -
If by anything, our economy was revived largely because of strong electronics and IT growth in the US. We rode on the back of the growth of the US economy and not because our Govt did this did that.Originally posted by Gazelle:Singapore was the last man standing during the 97financial crisis and Singapore government has made very swift decision in reviving the economy during recession. If not for SARS and SEP11, singapore economy could have recover much faster.
But of course, our Govt got the shock when the electronics bubble burst. Just who is responsible for not foreseeing it? And then did the Govt foresee the rise of China stealing most of our manufacturing? The Govt merely stood on its laurels all those years and simply chose the simplest solution available and didn't diversify beyond manufacturing. Now of course, we are straddled with countless other problems, not least that inflation has gone unabated and wages are stagnant. -
I am sure Singapore didnt inherit the electronics and IT industry from Tengku of Johor or the Queen of England when Singapore was seperated from Malaysia.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:If by anything, our economy was revived largely because of strong electronics and IT growth in the US. We rode on the back of the growth of the US economy and not because our Govt did this did that.
But of course, our Govt got the shock when the electronics bubble burst. Just who is responsible for not foreseeing it? And then did the Govt foresee the rise of China stealing most of our manufacturing? The Govt merely stood on its laurels all those years and simply chose the simplest solution available and didn't diversify beyond manufacturing. Now of course, we are straddled with countless other problems, not least that inflation has gone unabated and wages are stagnant.
What about the FTA Singapore government signed with the USA and other countries, MAS supporting the falling Sing dollars during the asian financial crisis, cutting employer CPF contribution and reducing corp and income tax structure to prevent further hollowing out of industry overseas, and the security we had during the Sep11 period. -
Humbug. The measures taken are merely to attract foreign companies to set up shop here and they are not by any means inclined to bring their high end jobs here but instead the middle management ones of which have instead added to the stagnation of wages here. It merely encouraged people to quit the country and head elsewhere for greener pastures. Eventually it won't just be the hollowing of the economy but the hollowing of the population.Originally posted by Gazelle:I am sure Singapore didnt inherit the electronics and IT industry from Tengku of Johor or the Queen of England when Singapore was seperated from Malaysia.
What about the FTA Singapore government signed with the USA and other countries, MAS supporting the falling Sing dollars during the asian financial crisis, cutting employer CPF contribution and reducing corp and income tax structure to prevent further hollowing out of industry overseas, and the security we had during the Sep11 period.
And what the heck is the comment about the electronics industry supposed to mean? -
when it is convenient and serves their self-serving purpose, only then will external interference be accepted.
I am touched other people from other country care... -
You've got to understand there're people in this part of the world raised on a diet of hope - specifically, futile hope spurned by criminals as infallible gospels...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Excuse me? If the Govt ever bothered with Bread and Butter issues, it wouldn't run off raising GST, raising their pay etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. et al infinitum.
Seriously, quit the bread and butter nonsense already! Are you going to believe every single solemn holy word of the Govt as holy truth and regard all else to be blasphemy? -
Attracting FDI to Singapore is probably one of the toughest job, especially if you consider the lack of domestic market size and natural resources. And I would say the Singapore government has done a great job in that aspect.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Humbug. The measures taken are merely to attract foreign companies to set up shop here and they are not by any means inclined to bring their high end jobs here but instead the middle management ones of which have instead added to the stagnation of wages here. It merely encouraged people to quit the country and head elsewhere for greener pastures. Eventually it won't just be the hollowing of the economy but the hollowing of the population.
And what the heck is the comment about the electronics industry supposed to mean?
I am not sure what are you expecting from these foreign companies. Iron rice bowl? European working hours? American golden handshake? -
while I agreed that FDI are importants but understandbly FDI is not the only tool to Economics development. We know that never to put all the egg in one basket so what are the other treatments? gov role isn't all about FDI how about creating a domestics economy? We have very little and very poor resultOriginally posted by Gazelle:Attracting FDI to Singapore is probably one of the toughest job, especially if you consider the lack of domestic market size and natural resources. And I would say the Singapore government has done a great job in that aspect.
I am not sure what are you expecting from these foreign companies. Iron rice bowl? European working hours? American golden handshake? -
I don't mean to be rude but, Please i almost fell off the chair when i read your comment......Federalist vs republic autonomy. The EU can't even establish a proper moral authority on the balken.....the political process still have some time to take shape.Originally posted by iveco:THe EU is a model for all to follow. Even post 911 USA pales in comparison to the Scandinavian regimes. -
I am not sure what you mean by putting in one basket because FDI in singapore are very extremely divesified and it has serving us well.Originally posted by Arapahoe:while I agreed that FDI are importants but understandbly FDI is not the only tool to Economics development. We know that never to put all the egg in one basket so what are the other treatments? gov role isn't all about FDI how about creating a domestics economy? We have very little and very poor result
In order for create a domestic economy, you must first create job, and to create job, you need FDI, and to attract FDI, you need human resources and infrastructure, and you need a good government development them. -
while the EU economy and political scene is nothing to shout about, their respect for liberty, fellow human being and the environment is much greater than the US. do understand that the EU has only been in existence for around 50 years, and the past few decades have been mired in nothing but turmoil. considering all their troubles, they have come very far.Originally posted by Arapahoe:I don't mean to be rude but, Please i almost fell off the chair when i read your comment......Federalist vs republic autonomy. The EU can't even establish a proper moral authority on the balken.....the political process still have some time to take shape.
how many countires in the world do you know where gasoline engine powered vehicles are banned from driving in the streets during peak hours? -
Would you then like to explain how an organisation "without a proper moral authority" is able to scrutinise various aspects of a potential member state so stringently and effectively? And how uncanny it is that all EU member states, prior to its admission, needs to adhere to certain guidelines with regard to numerous issues - ranging from a country's free-trade policies to human rights records - prior to their admission into the European community?Originally posted by Arapahoe:The EU can't even establish a proper moral authority on the balken.....the political process still have some time to take shape.
I suppose the fact that Czech Republic and Turkey being prepared to subject themselves to such scrutiny and potential loss of certain sovereign rights just says something about the significance of how much benefit being a EU member would yield that renders such efforts worthwhile, even at the expense of losing some sovereign rights.
While the EU is obviously not perfect (just as nothing is), I think what the EU has achieved on its own does say a lot about the institution as a whole. Compared to ASEAN (which is effectively a loose association of a group of suspect regimes), the EU has obviously proved itself to be lightyears ahead in terms of advancing the cause of humanity and civilisation at large... -
I am not denying the important impact of FDI for Singapore and its divesifying...and its multiplying effect bla bla bla, but FDI alone apparently is not enough to get Singapore out of a Small GDP. The recent argument made by LKY was the siting of small GDP. Singapore have been promoting FDI since 70's and with the increase high cost and competitive china, india needless to say the rate of FDI inflow into Singapore are diminishing. It has its peak and its positive impact.Originally posted by Gazelle:I am not sure what you mean by putting in one basket because FDI in singapore are very extremely divesified and it has serving us well.
In order for create a domestic economy, you must first create job, and to create job, you need FDI, and to attract FDI, you need human resources and infrastructure, and you need a good government development them.
What i saw was a lack of. A domestics economy that generate local solution for local needs. And by that I am not referring to hawker food center.
These are the key to retaining your growth domestically in the longer term. We may have a small base but it is an area that is I believe untap yet.
So the bottom line is that if gov reduce crowding out effect from the private sector and invest in domestics solution we could open a new source for our domestics economy. -
You are missing the point. The point is that all these companies will bring us is tax revenue and some finite no. of jobs but by no means will they contribute to raising the standards of living of the people. Only a strong domestic economy will raise the standards of living as it will avail to the people a wider spectrum of jobs and allow people to progress up the economic ladder. And yes, we shouldn't expect anything from the foreign companies because of this. We should not expect them to help people develop themselves or anything. To them, this country is a mere hotel for them to stay for the time being until the hotel fees rise to a level too expensive for them to stay.Originally posted by Gazelle:Attracting FDI to Singapore is probably one of the toughest job, especially if you consider the lack of domestic market size and natural resources. And I would say the Singapore government has done a great job in that aspect.
I am not sure what are you expecting from these foreign companies. Iron rice bowl? European working hours? American golden handshake?
And ultimately, if we are going play a race in FDI we will loose in the long run. This is not a long run feasible problem and as usual the Govt is probably throw money at it again when we reach some plateau and that is hardly a sound economic decision, not least it is an efficient use of resources. -
Untapped or destroyed in favour of the GLCs and crony organisations?Originally posted by Arapahoe:We may have a small base but it is an area that is I believe untap yet.
So the bottom line is that if gov reduce crowding out effect from the private sector and invest in domestics solution we could open a new source for our domestics economy.
Let's take taxi drivers for example. They were making good money as micro entrepreneurs until you know who did you know what (raise their road tax to more than $7000)
These are the people that knows how to "reward" themselves million dollar salaries but begrudge the taxi drivers their living and make them coolies.
Resulting in what? Long wait for taxis as compared to Bangkok, KL and some say Batam.