[BBC] Europe MPs 'gagged' by Singapore
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Let's be frank. CSJ, for all his idealism, is a spent force. He has no credibility with the population, and well, even if he's right, no one will listen to him.Originally posted by Joe Black:Were you there to witness this or you simpleton simply belief whatever the state controlled Singapore press and media or spoon feed you?
Why don't you go talk to CSJ, and then assess him based on your interaction with him rather than making stupid sweeping statements like this?
Politics sometimes isn't just about idealism, it's about tactics and selling yourself to the people. This talking down to people serves him no purpose especially whne you are dealing with a population which is more inclined to stuff its head into the ground than anything else. -
True... one thing is for sure... if he is as bad as what they say... how did he get a doctorate? How did he get employed by NUS... ????Originally posted by Joe Black:Were you there to witness this or you simpleton simply belief whatever the state controlled Singapore press and media or spoon feed you?
Why don't you go talk to CSJ, and then assess him based on your interaction with him rather than making stupid sweeping statements like this?
How did he convince the ex WSJ editor to call him the Singapore Martyr?
How did he get the European parliament members to speak at his forum?
These people all equally seow or people that think of CSJ as seow should have their head checked by IMH. -
http://www.okusi.net/garydean/works/fdising.htmlOriginally posted by Gazelle:FDI has served us well in the past and they will continue to be the key driver of growth now and future.
In effect, the Singaporean government's policies hoped to attract TNCs to establish manufacturing facilities in Singapore to not only provide employment, but also with the hope that sophisticated foreign technology would 'trickle down' to local companies effecting technology transfer. Government policy-makers tended to believe that TNCs were better vehicles for the acquisition of high technology.[6] However, to what extent this trickle-down effect actually happened is debatable. It is suggested that TNCs are generally reluctant to use local contractors, which is where transmission of techniques and practices would be expected to take place, and that the technology actually used in locations such as Singapore is not cutting edge, but rather at the end of its product life-cycle.[7]
and of course
However, one important weakness in Singapore's approach is the question of technological innovation, considered the last stage of technology transfer.[10] For a variety of reasons, state-of-the-art R&D by TNCs is nearly always concentrated in a few developed countries, and high technology tends not to be developed outside the TNC's home-base. Cutting-edge R&D in particular is usually undertaken close to management and decision-making centres where there exists a large local market, and a pool of advanced and specialist technical skills.[11] Another important weakness is that the very presence of strong TNCs can inhibit local companies from deepening their technological capabilities, preferring to import foreign technologies that are proven and ready-to-use, rather than invest in their own R&D.[12] This is arguably what has already happened in Singapore as a consequence of their developmental path.
With or without FDI, Singapore would have found it difficult to languish as an economic backwater. Accidents of location, culture and history came together in Singapore, and given a modicum of political stability, such a country could only prosper. Singapore was lucky; its apparent 'success' was certainly not only due to its FDI policies, but also due to many other factors.
What FDI has done for Singapore is to assist in the creation of a nation with one of the highest per capita incomes in the world, for what that is worth. Singapore could be said to be wealthy in the same way that ancient Athens was said to be democratic. In both cases, a huge, anonymous underclass of cheap labour supported the superstructure; in the case of Singapore, Malaysians (of every race, not just Malays) and other Southeast Asians, who are offered only the barest of legislative protection by the government.
The cost in human terms of this success has been high: Singapore today is an authoritarian corporatist state that intervenes in virtually every aspect of citizen's lives. Singapore has become a nation of functionaries who serve the interests of the TNCs and the Singaporean state elite. Within such an environment there exists very little true entrepreneurship. FDI has not assisted in the development of an innovative population; rather it has assisted in the creation of a self-satisfied, arrogant society that seems content to live off its natural advantages.[23] Singapore today resembles an enormous air-conditioned shopping mall, with squeaky-clean streets and traffic so orderly as to border on the bizarre. -
Singapore's a lot further from the politics of colonial rule 50 years on - the fascists are much worse...Originally posted by Atobe:After 50 years, is Singapore any further from the politics in a Colonial Society ?
Then again, isn't this just another example of George Orwell's "Animal Farm"? -
Guys,
CSJ was never a politician when you look at his actions objectively. It is the ruling party and the media that wanted to create a profile of a failed politician to suit their political goals.
His actions are that of an activist. He doesn't care about popularity polls, what he wants is his message to be spread out. How many lecturers do you know, who are really good teachers and good in PR skills? Not many. He's just another academic who moved on from talking shop, to actually doing what he believes in.
Put aside all your socialised notions and ask yourself, can you walk in his shoes? If you can't, I think it's highly indulgent to talk cheaply of a man when you cannot even understand what his aims are, regardless whether they fit into the PAP-centered world of the media and public opinion.
He's an activist, not a politician. In politics, there are many players. I wouldn't want him to run a GRC, because I think he lacks that PR skill to sell his programs. But as a ombudsman, perhaps more so. -
Kudos for originality, clear, careful, and insightful thinking.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Guys,
CSJ was never a politician when you look at his actions objectively. It is the ruling party and the media that wanted to create a profile of a failed politician to suit their political goals.
His actions are that of an activist. He doesn't care about popularity polls, what he wants is his message to be spread out. How many lecturers do you know, who are really good teachers and good in PR skills? Not many. He's just another academic who moved on from talking shop, to actually doing what he believes in.
Put aside all your socialised notions and ask yourself, can you walk in his shoes? If you can't, I think it's highly indulgent to talk cheaply of a man when you cannot even understand what his aims are, regardless whether they fit into the PAP-centered world of the media and public opinion.
He's an activist, not a politician. In politics, there are many players. I wouldn't want him to run a GRC, because I think he lacks that PR skill to sell his programs. But as a ombudsman, perhaps more so.
CSJ entry into politics seems to be more accidental than planned.
His pro-active character has placed him in the heat more often than not, whenever he dare to challenge the status quo that the Ruling Party impose on Singapore Society - simply to suit their own political agenda.
The politically charged events of that period that grew from the swelling discontent within the SDP towards the passive CST's way of politics, resulted in the accidental push of CSJ into the hot seat as the Secretary-General of SDP. The events that led were already developing even before CSJ joined politics, as the Chairman of SDP - Ling Howe Doong - was already clashing regularly with CST for his preferred non-confrontational strategies towards the Ruling Party.
Fate played a cruel trick on CSJ from the time he returned from overseas after getting his degree, that he should be courted by SDP in a recruitment exercise pushed by the chairman of SDP.
If prior to CSJ's entry into politics, he did not work under a Faculty Head - (Dr Vassoo ) - who is a known stalwart and a hatchet man in the Ruling Political Party, - what will be CSJ's Political Life ?
Even if the Ruling Party will not admit it, their weaknesses are slowly being exposed by the books that CSJ has been writing since the late 1980s - even before the current crop of eloquent and cool-headed Workers' Party recruits were prepared to enter politics. -
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Kudos for originality, clear, careful, and insightful thinking.Originally posted by Atobe:Kudos for originality, clear, careful, and insightful thinking.
CSJ entry into politics seems to be more accidental than planned.
His pro-active character has placed him in the heat more often than not, whenever he dare to challenge the status quo that the Ruling Party impose on Singapore Society - simply to suit their own political agenda.
The politically charged events of that period that grew from the swelling discontent within the SDP towards the passive CST's way of politics, resulted in the accidental push of CSJ into the hot seat as the Secretary-General of SDP. The events that led were already developing even before CSJ joined politics, as the Chairman of SDP - Ling Howe Doong - was already clashing regularly with CST for his preferred non-confrontational strategies towards the Ruling Party.
Fate played a cruel trick on CSJ from the time he returned from overseas after getting his degree, that he should be courted by SDP in a recruitment exercise pushed by the chairman of SDP.
If prior to CSJ's entry into politics, he did not work under a Faculty Head - (Dr Vassoo ) - who is a known stalwart and a hatchet man in the Ruling Political Party, - what will be CSJ's Political Life ?
Even if the Ruling Party will not admit it, their weaknesses are slowly being exposed by the books that CSJ has been writing since the late 1980s - even before the current crop of eloquent and cool-headed Workers' Party recruits were prepared to enter politics.
, yourself.
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Originally posted by walesa:
LKY probably did not read the 'Animal Farm', or else he could have been more careful not to repeat the Pig's contradicting speeches.
Singapore's a lot further from the politics of colonial rule 50 years on - the fascists are much worse...
Then again, isn't this just another example of George Orwell's "Animal Farm"?
Then again, LKY does resemble the domineering piggy character 'Napolean' in George Orwell's writing - as both were so eloquent to move their own kind to support their personal political ambitions.
In both cases, only very much later will they turn their stated principle on its own head.Speech by LKY in 1957
Is it not ironical that after 50 years, LKY's change in attitude through his insistance concerning 'Well Paid Talent in Public Service' - is no different from the change in attitude by Orwell's little piggy named Napolean ?
'Colonialism means not only the exploitation of local man by local man, but also the exploitation of all local men by the white man.
It is only when we have ousted the British from political control that we have a chance to create a new different society with equal and fair opportunities for all to live and learn and work without exploiting their fellow men either by their greater wealth or greater talents
LKY's insistence that the talented should be highly paid, has now resulted in 'the local men no longer being exploited by the White Man' but we are now witnessing the definite 'exploitation of local men by the talented and wealthy men in White' -
Speech by LKY in 1957
'Colonialism means not only the exploitation of local man by local man, but also the [b]exploitation of all local men by the white man.
It is only when we have ousted the British from political control that we have a chance to create a new different society with equal and fair opportunities for all to live and learn and work without exploiting their fellow men either by their greater wealth or greater talentsOriginally posted by Atobe:
The abominable rise in salaries would have been more palatable if not for their insistence to TAKE from the average person earning 200 to 300 less than them by increasing the GST among other things.
LKY's insistence that the talented should be highly paid, has now resulted in 'the local men no longer being exploited by the White Man' but we are now witnessing the definite 'exploitation of local men by the talented and wealthy men in White''exploitation of local men by the talented and wealthy men in White'[/b] -
Was it necessary for the European MPs to be gagged by Singapore in the recent SDP organised symposium ?
From the following interviews given by the gagged European MPs, the fallout of this silly Singapore Government reaction will affect the on-going European Singapore Trade Agreement.
Based on past reactions from this Singapore Ruling Party in power, the threats of a fall out from this situation will be taken in stride.
Banned European MP Participants to the SDP Conference - Meet the Press
Part 1
Part 2
Was CSJ speaking or screaming like a 'mad man' ?
Somehow the following clips does not show him anywhere near the false image that has been purposefully promoted from the much publicised CSJ-GST confrontation at a market during an earlier Election.
CSJ exposure of the Singapore Pipe Dream
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Has the SDP now recruited new Foreign Talent, who are more familiar to Singapore in the form of returning 'Singaporean Quitters' ?
The following clip shows a calm and collected John Tan introducing himself at the press conference when the European MPs spoke about their reactions to the ban. -
What! P*P never bring up a lawsuit against them? So it must be true! Otherwise why they never defend themselves?Originally posted by LazerLordz:One MEP likened the Singaporeans' to repressive regimes such as North Korea.
The Singapore government said foreigners did not have permission to address the event.
The seven MEPs, from the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE), came to Singapore after earlier speaking at a forum in Indonesia.
'Authoritarian state'
"I fear that, in this sense at least, it puts Singapore in a league with North Korea, Myanmar and the People's Republic of China," MEP Graham Watson was quoted as saying by the AFP news agency.
"What has happened today proves that Singapore is an authoritarian state," said Ignasi Guardans, a Spanish MEP.
The MEPs had been invited to speak by the Singapore Democratic Party (SDP) led by Chee Soon Juan, opponents of the People's Action Party which has ruled the island state since 1959. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
'Truth' is only skin deep.
What! P*P never bring up a lawsuit against them? So it must be true! Otherwise why they never defend themselves?
What is the color of 'Truth' or 'Lies' ?
What some see as 'Truth' are seen as 'Lies' by others, while some are skillful at the black art of turning 'Lies' to look like the 'Truth'.
The danger to Singaporeans is that some cannot differentiate what has been selectively and purposefully done for us to see and hear - when the situation conveniently suit the current political agenda ? -
To those who believe that CSJ is a megolomaniac, they should perhaps spend some time listening to the content, the delivery and measured tone of his speech.
More importantly, listening to CSJ's public posturing when he has to share the same stage with others with reputations that are equal or even larger than him.
Although, this 'referenced event' may not be relevant to this thread, the purpose is to measure CSJ and his political standing with those other personalities whom we know to be less controversial than him.
This referenced event provide us the 'immediatiate opportunity for such a comparison to be made.
Do not judge a person by his actions alone, but also look at his principles. -
What is the PAP going to do? Those are legally elected members of the European Union. They want to sue them in their courts and hope to win? Please.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:What! P*P never bring up a lawsuit against them? So it must be true! Otherwise why they never defend themselves?
If they are smart, they should be working doubly hard on the Free Trade Agreement and not worsen the situation. -
i believe, if arrested, they will be charged under singapore's law.Originally posted by LazerLordz:What is the PAP going to do? Those are legally elected members of the European Union. They want to sue them in their courts and hope to win? Please.
If they are smart, they should be working doubly hard on the Free Trade Agreement and not worsen the situation.
wus eu gonna do about it? -
Are you aware that dementia-ridden thug once tried taking someone to court in Canada for his run-of-the-mill defamation lawsuit? That case was thrown out before it even got to see any light of day...Originally posted by LazerLordz:What is the PAP going to do? Those are legally elected members of the European Union. They want to sue them in their courts and hope to win? Please. -
And for what charge? Speaking the damned truth?We are authoritarian, and that is a definition of political system found in any dictionary, thesaurus and also from the mouth of the old man himself.Originally posted by Ito_^:i believe, if arrested, they will be charged under singapore's law.
wus eu gonna do about it?
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The most appalling event in the history of Singapore is seeing our own government increasing its own salary.Originally posted by walesa:Come on, Singapore isn't far off from standing on par with DPRK - it's almost matching DPRK in rankings assessing Singapore's human rights records and press freedom...
Utterly sickening. -
Hongkongers had feared its return to Mainland China in 1997, and there were heavy scepticism that the One Country, Two Systems will work - especially with the older Hongkongers who had fled the heavy hand of Communist Rule in China.
Ten years later, the Communist Government held true to their words, and allowed Hongkongers a certain latitude in governing their own affairs and keeping the territory under peaceful conditions.
The Hongkongers allowed themselves the freedom to march down their streets in protests towards questionable policies from the Hongkong Administration, as well as towards any policies that they see as interferences from the Motherland.
Did the Mainland Government panic, or the Hongkong Police over-react ?
Did the People's Army garrison in Hongkong make any show of strength to remind Hongkongers as to who is holding the gun ?
Singaporeans should feel ashamed that our own Government do not trust us, as much as those who have given their votes to the Ruling Party, and had blindly entrusted our future to the hands of this Ruling Party.
CSJ was right to push the arbitrary and discriminatory limits that this Ruling Party - aka the Singapore Government - had unreasonably imposed on Singaporeans, and disenfranchising Singaporeans of our Political Rights.
It is amazing that this Government will succumb to the pressures of the World Bank and IMF to allow international protestors into Singapore to make their characteristic VOCAL and PHYSICAL protests; while CSJ's organised silent protest at Hong Lim Green was met with a heavy police presence.
CSJ has exposed the charade that this Singapore Government had created for the International Consumption that Singapore is a member of the First World and that this Government will unashamedly claim international acclaim for the progress that Singapore has made with the complete sacrifice of the oppressed Citizens unable to reclaim their own economic and political rights.
At least these EU MPs had the wool removed from their eyes, to see first hand the autocratic behaviour of this Singapore Ruling Party aka the Government of Singapore. -
CSJ's actions may be incomprehensible to the average Joe who lives on the propaganda the fascists churn out, but it really isn't a coincidence that he has a knack of knowing when to fully exploit the criminals' vulnerability and he clearly deserves credit for that.Originally posted by Atobe:
CSJ was right to push the arbitrary and discriminatory limits that this Ruling Party - aka the Singapore Government - had unreasonably imposed on Singaporeans, and disenfranchising Singaporeans of our Political Rights.
It is amazing that this Government will succumb to the pressures of the World Bank and IMF to allow international protestors into Singapore to make their characteristic VOCAL and PHYSICAL protests; while CSJ's organised silent protest at Hong Lim Green was met with a heavy police presence.
Truth be told, I don't think his modus operandi could be faulted as it's no secret this regime would do just about anything for money - and anything that enhances economic growth directly or indrectly. In fact, through drawing attention to the plight of those who are marginalised by this regime via the foreign press was a masterstroke in terms of truly raising awareness internationally of issues which he felt were of concern. -
Tis Chee guy has a PERSONAL vendetta against the PAP and he's using all ways and means to make a mockery out of MMLee and his cohorts. I don't see Chee's actions are beneficial to Singapore at all.Originally posted by the Bear:let's analyse this..
he invited a bunch of people to come talk about this...
it says a lot... he just said that Singaporeans don't have the cojones or the brains to think about or speak about this situation.. therefore he has to go abroad to get these people..
that's sticking it up the ass of Singapore..
to provoke a situation where the idiot powers will use their usual ham-fisted reactionary nonsense.. which pissed off them foreigners.. they'd be already primed by CSJ and will have a bad impression of Singaporeans as a whole, not just the accused powers...
they have the influence to spread this around.. saying "Singaporeans are not worth it" and they probably would.. again somehow, i think CSJ would be happy to goad them into doing so..
then there's CSJ himself... he's causing more problems for himself and trying to be a "martyr" but he's just an attention whore
all-in-all, what was the point of the whole situation except a destructive publicity stunt? much like most of his bloody career...
btw, i'm bitter about him causing the opposition to be set back by a few decades with his debacle of ousting his mentor... maybe i'm biased against him, but can you actually blame anyone for hating him?
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Chee is an activist. Can't you guys get this into your skulls. His work has no short-term benefit, but don't forget to look around in the future.Originally posted by MamaRos:Tis Chee guy has a PERSONAL vendetta against the PAP and he's using all ways and means to make a mockery out of MMLee and his cohorts. I don't see Chee's actions are beneficial to Singapore at all.
Oh well, to each his own, the freedom of belief. That's something even beyond the ruling party's ideology. -
agree totally.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Lame reason. Very lame reason. If we can interfere in other countries' politics, why can't they do the same thing? look at the oldest member of the PAP who recently talked about other countries again. Time and again he will make unnecessary remarks about other countries and this put us to shame to have someone so nosy. Nosy parker is the old Lee who thinks he has every right in the world to talk about other countries. When other countries respond negatively to him he is ever so defensive.
MM, please hold your tongue so you won't put all of us to shame. Don't be so fast/quick to give your comments which at times look bad on you. You are not paid the unreasonably super fat high salary to talk unfavourably about other countries.
Be humble! 
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
It seems that CSJ is taking politics via the 'activist' route when faced with a population that has shown apathy as a result of decades of political disenfranchisement through the purposeful policy pronounced by LKY with his statement of - 'Filling the stomach and dull the Minds'.
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Original post by MamaRos:
Tis Chee guy has a PERSONAL vendetta against the PAP and he's using all ways and means to make a mockery out of MMLee and his cohorts. I don't see Chee's actions are beneficial to Singapore at all.
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Chee is an activist. Can't you guys get this into your skulls. His work has no short-term benefit, but don't forget to look around in the future.
Oh well, to each his own, the freedom of belief. That's something even beyond the ruling party's ideology.
In such a barren political environment, with a population that is largely 'dissuaded' from being actively involved in political matters, can CSJ find any Singaporean supporters for the SDP - after he was unexpectedly pushed into the SPD leadership role by the internal politics of the SDP ?
Since Singapore's independence - even as early as during the days of Self-Rule - Singaporeans have witnessed the use of the Internatl Security Act towards those that threatened the State; but it was during the late 1970s and up to the 1990s, that the Internal Security Act was used to purposefully placed Political Opponents to the Ruling Party under severe restrictions.
All government agencies were mobilised - from the Tax Department to the Environment Ministry - to find any smallest possible reason to pile all the charges to bind up the resources and neutralize anyone who dare pop up to challenge the State in any organized form.
CSJ's effort is attempting to change the ground rules that were originally enshrined in the Singapore Constitution - the same ground rule that LKY had so eloquently fought for the sake of Singaporeans when he was a young lawyer representing the Trade Unions persecuted by the Colonial Government.
Whatever that CSJ is doing today is similar to LKY's efforts confronting the Colonial Government :
Lee Kuan Yew, once one of the worldÂ’s most articulate voices of freedom, had this to say in 1956 as an opposition member of Parliament:
“But either we believe in democracy or we do not. If we do, then we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from any democratic process, other than by ordinary law of the land, should be allowed. If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at naught. . .”
In a subsequent speech made when Singapore was part of the Malaysian federation, Lee articulated his feelings about freedom of the press and media.
”Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open or a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas—the novel, unorthodox, heresies. . . where there is a constant contest for men’s heats and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, or what is in the national interest? Or is it a closed society where the mass media—the newspapers, journals, publications, TV, radio. . . feed men’s minds with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox philosophy?”
Is it not sad that after over 45 years of independence, Singaporeans have lost the Basic Freedom to Free Political Association, a Free Press and Media, and all we have is a "sycophantic support for a particular orthodox philosophy" as pronounced by the Ruling Party guided by MM LKY ?