Are ministers and civil servants doing more nowadays?
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Lai CF wrote:
You are absolutely right - civil servants enjoy the best of both worlds by doing less and less but are still asking for more salaries and more bonuses.
Work Ethics?
Sure, if all SIngaporeans are promised annual bonuses of 5 months to 10 months if they "work hard", why not?
After all, civil servants are on 5-day week, whereas Private Sector like marine, construction, oil & gas and some manufacturing are on 24/7, rotating shift.
Don't those Private Sector employees deserve 5 to 10 months annual bonuses...on par what all those 5-day week civil servanst are collecting?
Most of the government services are nowaday being passed to some GLCs or private companies given all the right to charge lands and infrastructure costs all over despite citizens having paid for such facilities years back under taxation.
Duties and responsibilities of government are getting lesser with MND, URA, HDB, MHA, passing all kinds of duties to various agencies like GLCs and Management Corporations who would have to answer for their duties like breeding of mosquitos, or work site safety or breaches of security or others. Even immigration check were passed to landlords who could be jailed for so-called renting of premises to foreigners which MHA has failed to carry out.
Facts speak for themselves. With such reduction in their duties and works, Ministers have lesser problems and worries but citizens are being told they are the great talents who should be paid more salaries and bonuses.
There is no more fair play in our present system with the ministers doing lesser but able to engage in power game of promoting themselves and protecting their own interests. All the rewards are going to the ministers and the civil servants.
Morever whenever anything goes wrong they would take the easy way out by denying problems with the newspapers keeping quiet about real problems for years or ministers coming up with excuses as being uttered by V Balakrishnan or Yacoob to justify the civil servants' pay increases despite the people's dropping wages and indebtedness and all the high costs of living caused by unnecessary taxes in the face of all the hidden surpluses and profiteering.
The only talent our ministers have seem to be their ability to enslave the population, hypocrisy and blaming problems on the people or giving of quick excuses of one kind of another with problems remaining unsolved for years. -
passing the buck, collect the bucks....
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uhh... my jobscope just went up by 150% or more since 2003...
my pay scheme has not changed a whit... whatsoever... no matter what the press says...
and from the circulars we get, i'd say that the majority of the civil servants have not gotten any more... but their jobscope has increased significantly...
go watch the Get Rea! tonight about teachers burning out...
and they are not those who are facing life and death issues like our Coast Guards.. -
i think people gotta be specific.
the word civil servant covers a wide range.
try not to pull the lower ranks in. -
Everyone is told to do more, with less.Originally posted by the Bear:uhh... my jobscope just went up by 150% or more since 2003...
my pay scheme has not changed a whit... whatsoever... no matter what the press says...
and from the circulars we get, i'd say that the majority of the civil servants have not gotten any more... but their jobscope has increased significantly...
go watch the Get Rea! tonight about teachers burning out...
and they are not those who are facing life and death issues like our Coast Guards..
Everyone did more, with less.
Then our "leaduh" sold our arse.
Telling us to attract the 'best', and keep the 'best', they need to pay themselves the BEST. -
What a mess
like an orgy at a beer fest.
They whom many of us detest
have left us all dying with the rest.
Holy crap, is this somekind of loyalty test?
Perhaps it's just an April Fool jest.
Ha! Wake up your idea!
We are all screwed like using a lighter in a chamber of filled with Natural gas. -
Somehow, we got to learn to read.
ST reported top civil servants will get pay rise, they never report civil servants will get pay rise.
It's not fair to pull all civil servants. One die doesn't mean the rest have to. -
you see?
people at the counters have been abused...
people in these forums have been ranting..
it is something the powers count on... deflecting some of the hatred away from themselves...Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
Somehow, we got to learn to read.
ST reported [b]top civil servants will get pay rise, they never report civil servants will get pay rise.
It's not fair to pull all civil servants. One die doesn't mean the rest have to.[/b] -
They have it planned already...Originally posted by the Bear:you see?
people at the counters have been abused...
people in these forums have been ranting..
it is something the powers count on... deflecting some of the hatred away from themselves...
When PM didn't announce the budget... we could already tell whose the scapegoat.
Now that PM announced top civil servants get pay rise, the ones at the bottom also get dragged in, for no reason. -
ahh.. you are mistakened...
there was a reason... a lot are paid a pittance in order to ensure complicity...
a lot are not paid at all in a move to force them to change employment schemes..
plans within plans within plans...
most of all, it's all a wayang to increase their own pay while putting others in the line of fire to be cannon fodder...Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:They have it planned already...
When PM didn't announce the budget... we could already tell whose the scapegoat.
Now that PM announced top civil servants get pay rise, the ones at the bottom also get dragged in, for no reason. -
so many old farts
making so much gas
the hot air they blow
made such a mess
the big heads amassed
no bright ideas, I guess
holy trinity and the gang, anyhow invest
Seriously I think Cockroach are better and more useful pest. -
/pat patOriginally posted by the Bear:you see?
people at the counters have been abused...
people in these forums have been ranting..
it is something the powers count on... deflecting some of the hatred away from themselves...
Having gone through the servant system,
I know that the people on top see the people below in this manner:
That people who are not scholar,
who are not on the scholar "fast track" therefore will never make super scale
People at the bottom can be wasted and replaced with more young and willing fresh graduates from the school system
- Its a cycle -
Very confusing.Originally posted by the Bear:ahh.. you are mistakened...
there was a reason... a lot are paid a pittance in order to ensure complicity...
a lot are not paid at all in a move to force them to change employment schemes..
plans within plans within plans...
most of all, it's all a wayang to increase their own pay while putting others in the line of fire to be cannon fodder... -
imagine a gang...
the leaders of the gang have just robbed the bank of $200 million
they give themselves $10 million each, and their 2nd row of leaders $100,000 each...
then the kar-kia who don't know anything, gets $50 each... and told to go and fight the police who have come to arrest the leaders for robbing the bank..
because the kar-kia get $50, they are implicated in the robbery... and will have to fight the police...
in a firefight, the leaders of the gang hide while the kar-kia fight.. after a while, the leaders get away in the confusion... but then who die first?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Very confusing. -
Kar kia.Originally posted by the Bear:imagine a gang...
the leaders of the gang have just robbed the bank of $200 million
they give themselves $10 million each, and their 2nd row of leaders $100,000 each...
then the kar-kia who don't know anything, gets $50 each... and told to go and fight the police who have come to arrest the leaders for robbing the bank..
because the kar-kia get $50, they are implicated in the robbery... and will have to fight the police...
in a firefight, the leaders of the gang hide while the kar-kia fight.. after a while, the leaders get away in the confusion... but then who die first? -
I agree we should not tarnish the whole of civil servants with the same brush. Usually the lower rank of civil servants are underpaid and over-worked.Originally posted by kopiosatu:i think people gotta be specific.
the word civil servant covers a wide range.
try not to pull the lower ranks in.
Those who are paid millions and many months of bonuses are the ones who should set good examples and not be easily excused of duties and responsibility. -
Robert, you have tarnished civil servants with this statement of yours. Are you a civil servant? Do you know what kind of crap we handle daily? The five day work week is a farce and most civil servants slave away on extra programs on weekends without pay and OT! IF you want to talk about bonus, I can tell you the lower rung get absolutely nothing or close to nothing.Originally posted by robertteh:You are absolutely right - civil servants enjoy the best of both worlds by doing less and less but are still asking for more salaries and more bonuses.
I really suggest you do some research work to justify your statements rather than come here to post topics for sensationalism. Ask your friends or the ordinary civil servants in general whether they are doing lesser and asking for more pay.
A decent apology from you to the normal average civil servants in this thread will be a civil action from you. -
very true.
the very best paid civil servant has to be the SAF.
best paid as in good salary and minimal work.
just look at our SAF these days. most work has been subcontracted to ST engineering. even washing toilet also dont by bangla.
i am not just making plain accusation. i use to be part of them as well. -
Read my posts again. Which part of what I said tarnishes the civil service? Has the civil service succeeded in doing the right things for citizens like lowering the costs of living the majority of people are suffering from despite our ministers and civil servants getting all the increments and bonuses year after year.Originally posted by greengoblin:Robert, you have tarnished civil servants with this statement of yours. Are you a civil servant? Do you know what kind of crap we handle daily? The five day work week is a farce and most civil servants slave away on extra programs on weekends without pay and OT! IF you want to talk about bonus, I can tell you the lower rung get absolutely nothing or close to nothing.
I really suggest you do some research work to justify your statements rather than come here to post topics for sensationalism. Ask your friends or the ordinary civil servants in general whether they are doing lesser and asking for more pay.
A decent apology from you to the normal average civil servants in this thread will be a civil action from you.
So as a service, it has failed miserably to solve people's problems. This is despite the fact that our civil service is paid the world's highest salaries for bill collector and policing - even higher than presidents and prime ministers of many countries.
However I did point out that the lower-ranking civil servants like the clerical staff are over-paid. So it is up to our talented ministers to realize that there is something wrong in what they are doing in the latest proposal to pay the ministers even higher salaries.
These civil servants who are under-worked and over-paid include the clerical staff, the cleaners and security guards. The overpaid and under-worked are the ministers and the grades A-G civil servants who are mostly pushing pens and carrying out instructions but fearing to make changes. -
The key word is "used to be".Originally posted by reyes:very true.
the very best paid civil servant has to be the SAF.
best paid as in good salary and minimal work.
just look at our SAF these days. most work has been subcontracted to ST engineering. even washing toilet also dont by bangla.
i am not just making plain accusation. i use to be part of them as well.
History is history, present is present, future is future.
The present SAF, has HR people doubling up as IT management/admin.
Do you know my cousin has to carry 2 different sets of laptops just because of this? One set for HR, the other for IT. One set is connected to the SAF intranet, handling the new recruits and present recruits, the other set is for troubleshooting of SAF networks.
You think 5-day work week, very relax. I think you are still living in the past. -
this part...Originally posted by robertteh:You are absolutely right - civil servants enjoy the best of both worlds by doing less and less but are still asking for more salaries and more bonuses.
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I am sorry, I admit I have tarnished all civil servants. What I am referring to is the top civil servants are getting more and more for doing less and less.
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Ministers are ministers. We elected them we face the music. The civil service is not instrumental in lowering cost of living etc. They have to suffer the same taxations and suffering as the rest and the take the brunt from people ignorant of their roles. And pray...are you aware how little the average civil servant's bonus is compare to the top?Originally posted by robertteh:Read my posts again. Which part of what I said tarnishes the civil service? Has the civil service succeeded in doing the right things for citizens like lowering the costs of living the majority of people are suffering from despite our ministers and civil servants getting all the increments and bonuses year after year.[b[
Once again you choose not to differentiate between ministers and the civil service. Majority of them get lesser than those working in the commercial and banking sectors.
So as a service, it has failed miserably to solve people's problems. This is despite the fact that our civil service is paid the world's highest salaries for bill collector and policing - even higher than presidents and prime ministers of many countries.
[/b]
Can you justify your claim? Can you produce the data to verify your statements? If you can't it is just pure hogwash.
However I did point out that the lower-ranking civil servants like the clerical staff are over-paid.
Again you cannot differentiate between ministers and the civil service.
So it is up to our talented ministers to realize that there is something wrong in what they are doing in the latest proposal to pay the ministers even higher salaries.
As usual give me the statistics to prove this. I don't see many millionaire cleaners and clerical staff.
These civil servants who are [b]under-worked and over-paid include the clerical staff, the cleaners and security guards.
[/b]
Are you a civil servant Robert? Do you know their job scope before making such fantastic claims? Please substantiate your claims with facts rather than push unverified thoughts from your fingertips to the screen.
The overpaid and under-worked are the ministers and the grades A-G civil servants who are mostly pushing pens and carrying out instructions but fearing to make changes. -
I strongly agree with ur last sentence...two thumbs up...Originally posted by robertteh:You are absolutely right - civil servants enjoy the best of both worlds by doing less and less but are still asking for more salaries and more bonuses.
Most of the government services are nowaday being passed to some GLCs or private companies given all the right to charge lands and infrastructure costs all over despite citizens having paid for such facilities years back under taxation.
Duties and responsibilities of government are getting lesser with MND, URA, HDB, MHA, passing all kinds of duties to various agencies like GLCs and Management Corporations who would have to answer for their duties like breeding of mosquitos, or work site safety or breaches of security or others. Even immigration check were passed to landlords who could be jailed for so-called renting of premises to foreigners which MHA has failed to carry out.
Facts speak for themselves. With such reduction in their duties and works, Ministers have lesser problems and worries but citizens are being told they are the great talents who should be paid more salaries and bonuses.
There is no more fair play in our present system with the ministers doing lesser but able to engage in power game of promoting themselves and protecting their own interests. All the rewards are going to the ministers and the civil servants.
Morever whenever anything goes wrong they would take the easy way out by denying problems with the newspapers keeping quiet about real problems for years or ministers coming up with excuses as being uttered by V Balakrishnan or Yacoob to justify the civil servants' pay increases despite the people's dropping wages and indebtedness and all the high costs of living caused by unnecessary taxes in the face of all the hidden surpluses and profiteering.
The only talent our ministers have seem to be their ability to enslave the population, hypocrisy and blaming problems on the people or giving of quick excuses of one kind of another with problems remaining unsolved for years. -
Thanks. This is the part I want you to clarify. If you are in the civil service and you work the grounds there, you will understand the sentiments of most civil servants. We aren't getting anymore than you. In fact most of us are getting less and being squeezed dry by the top ethos.Originally posted by robertteh:I am sorry, I admit I have tarnished all civil servants. What I am referring to is the top civil servants are getting more and more for doing less and less.