Malaysia's Big Weapons Armament Purchase
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I think we are all not very realistic about certain things.
a) Firstly, Malaysia will not invade Singapore UNLESS it is ready to do so. So if its readiness is still suspect, its troops and pilots untrained and other problems still exists, the war of the liberation of the south will not take place. They can wait as their economy is still growing at a good rate and there is absolutely no reason for any invasion yet ..
b) Malaysia is very capable of training people from very young age to new fields .. take for example sports .. our sportsmen were beaten in bowling, swimming, squash, netball, and now, you see their government taking on the brits in lawn bowls and also spending more and more time on extreme sports. Take for example motor sports .. there was zero interest in motor sports 10 years ago there. Now, they have lots of go cart tracks and getting their next breed of race drives to take over from. They have a jv to produce airplanes with australia and will be training more pilots soon.
c) They DO NOT have to use their equipment for invasion. They can be buying it for defense purposes. However, like Pavlov's dogs, we react to every purchase of theirs with great interest. We will have to spend $2 to counter every RM1 that they spend. They pay for their purchases in palm oil, we pay in hard currency. They get new markets for their palm oil, we drain our GDP. Intrestingly, this was how Reagan destroyed the USSR. By investing in the Star Wars program, and the soviets had to bankrup themselves more and more to counter a threat that proably did not work.
So we must not fall into their trap .. let them get their weapons, let them train their pilots. We must develop our society and economy BEFORE even buying any toys just to look better. -
You seem complacent about the situation, to me at least.Originally posted by kenhor:I think we are all not very realistic about certain things.
a) Firstly, Malaysia will not invade Singapore UNLESS it is ready to do so. So if its readiness is still suspect, its troops and pilots untrained and other problems still exists, the war of the liberation of the south will not take place. They can wait as their economy is still growing at a good rate and there is absolutely no reason for any invasion yet ..
b) Malaysia is very capable of training people from very young age to new fields .. take for example sports .. our sportsmen were beaten in bowling, swimming, squash, netball, and now, you see their government taking on the brits in lawn bowls and also spending more and more time on extreme sports. Take for example motor sports .. there was zero interest in motor sports 10 years ago there. Now, they have lots of go cart tracks and getting their next breed of race drives to take over from. They have a jv to produce airplanes with australia and will be training more pilots soon.
c) They DO NOT have to use their equipment for invasion. They can be buying it for defense purposes. However, like Pavlov's dogs, we react to every purchase of theirs with great interest. We will have to spend $2 to counter every RM1 that they spend. They pay for their purchases in palm oil, we pay in hard currency. They get new markets for their palm oil, we drain our GDP. Intrestingly, this was how Reagan destroyed the USSR. By investing in the Star Wars program, and the soviets had to bankrup themselves more and more to counter a threat that proably did not work.
So we must not fall into their trap .. let them get their weapons, let them train their pilots. We must develop our society and economy BEFORE even buying any toys just to look better.
First point - It is true, Malaysia will not invade Singapore unless it is ready. However, military readiness is hard to judge at times. By buying more arms, they are able to expand their orbat, theoretically "more ready", but that for the most part, isn't the case as we have discussed earlier. You can never tell when a potential crisis may occur, and how quickly it may escalate.
Second point - The point is mostly economic, however i do get your point on training people to new fields from a young age. Then again it doesn't factor for much in this discussion.
Third point - It is generally understood that Malaysia may not physically invade Singapore, however that does not mean their arms purchases mean no threat to us. Any arms purchases in the region has to be taken seriously. Also, we did not counter their arms purchases by buying arms that directly counter their latest aquisitions. Such an act amounts to an arms race. If you would look carefully, you will find that we are the ones that do the "market research" for them. We have more advanced equipment before them, and thus it seems that they are the ones countering our capabilities.
I don't really understand who the "we" in your post refers to, but I'll talk on it both ways.
"We" - the forum. Well, this is a forum afterall, and for the sake of discussion we have to bring up topics as far-ranging, yet relevant as possible.
"We" - The general population and the Government. This is even worse, the general population may not have much information as some of us here, and they definitely view every purchase as a threat. For the Government, like I've stated earlier, we cannot afford to be complacent.
As for your last line, we did not oppose to their training nor try to interrupt their arms purchases, we just kept quiet while they go on blabbering on what they are looking at. -
can you guys just talk in a more mature manner??
saying stupid stuff like....Malaysia wont even be a threat even though it acquired F-22s....
cmmon....get a life..... -
Wohhh....a call for maturity coming from a guy who started a thread which among other things, said he can bring down RSAF F-16s with stones...NOW thats what I call mature.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:can you guys just talk more mature manner??
saying stupid stuff like....Malaysia wont even be a threat even though it acquired F-22s....
cmmon....get a life.....
As for EXCOs comment, it is true, without properly trained pilots, nothing RMAF gets will make it a threat. Look at the context he said it in kid -
from now on, im am only comming to this forum to view threads...
i will try not to post anything...
and let me reveal my true identity...
i live in petaling jaya...not cyberjaya....
im do not work in the defence industry...(but i really know a few ppl from the industry)
and i am 11 years old.....
(still in primary school) -
eh take a look wat u post before toking abt maturity kidOriginally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:can you guys just talk in a more mature manner??
saying stupid stuff like....Malaysia wont even be a threat even though it acquired F-22s....
cmmon....get a life.....
if u dunno shit pls keep ur mouth shut..so no one will flame u -
eh? You are 11? then who are the people you know in M'sia defence industry? M'sia does not have much of a defence industry, definitely no where near Singapore's defence industry. One of the most prominent contract they have is building Steyr AUG assault rifles.
Meanwhile, Singapore is designing and has come up with the Bionix IFV, LW arty gun, upgrade packages for aircraft which are also used by other countries as well
http://abc.net.au/ra/asiapac/features/AsiaPacFeatures_324928.htm
(article on SG defence industry)
also, doesn't that undermine your own credibility? It is fine when you do not post information about yourself online, even in this forum. You can even not disclose that you are a Malaysian.
However, when engaging in a forum such as this, you chose to disclose that you are Malaysian and claim to be a part of the Malaysian defence industry. We believe you since we have no other way of proving otherwise nor of checking up.
Now, you claim to be revealing the 'truth' when you tell us you are 11, and live in Petaling Jaya. I therefore have every right to doubt what you have posted. I therefore applaud you at your decision to avoid further posts in the future where possible as many people will hit back with more arguments and comments for every sentence you post and for all the info you claim true... note that this has already started with this post of mine... -
Who is the one not mature here? Who is the moron who started a thread which says that RMAF can shoot down F16s with STONES?! Who is the one that kept on insisting to the brink of insanity that MAF is the superior force in the region?! Please, dun make a fool of yourself. As for my F22 comment, I don't need to justify anything, though i thank Viper52 for standing up to my point. It is the damned truth that even if Malaysia has F22s, RMAF IS STILL SECOND TO RSAF. Learn, or get lost.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:can you guys just talk in a more mature manner??
saying stupid stuff like....Malaysia wont even be a threat even though it acquired F-22s....
cmmon....get a life..... -
Are you trying to show that Malaysian 11 year olds has such "intelligence and knowledge"? Congratulations. You just proved yourself guilty of being a liar. So much for your credibility. I won't care if 11 year olds from up north can talk about such "grown-up" affairs, because it does not matter. Malaysia is still on the losing end.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:from now on, im am only comming to this forum to view threads...
i will try not to post anything...
and let me reveal my true identity...
i live in petaling jaya...not cyberjaya....
im do not work in the defence industry...(but i really know a few ppl from the industry)
and i am 11 years old.....
(still in primary school) -
Not going to harp on who or what you are. Just some words of wisdom for you the next time you decide to post anything.
"He who listens and thinks carefully before speaking will end up a wiser person than one who spews rubbish from his mouth without thinking."
However, if you or the hairy mouth aka harimau or any mudland pigs who chose to create trouble, you can be sure of a well orchestrated intense response.
In the meantime, feel free to stop by and learn. -
quote:
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Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:
from now on, im am only comming to this forum to view threads...
i will try not to post anything...
and let me reveal my true identity...
i live in petaling jaya...not cyberjaya....
im do not work in the defence industry...(but i really know a few ppl from the industry)
and i am 11 years old.....
(still in primary school)
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11yrs with such knowledge???? i could say is power! but do have ur proofs for ur stand b4 u post anything. have ur own self review of urself after posting so many posts.....i hav no comments -
i don't mind listening to anybody as long as the person makes sense... you really don't know or don't care how old a person is here... anonymity frees us of preconceived bias.
problem is, the "11 year old" already pissed off people all over even before we know of his "identity" (not that we care anyway)
anyway, found a little something in the NY times... the full text can be found under the topic "a new paradigm of conventional warfare post-afghanistan" ...
its quite relevant to what we're talking about here... in modern warfare, its quality vs. quantity and intelligence vs. numbers. you don't tremendously increase your capabilities by buying hardware... u do so by integrating them and fielding them properly with up to date battlefield intelligence.
for the remaining bigots and boors left in this thread who think otherwise, go figure... -
are u sure u are 11 years old i do quite believe!!!
Even if u are some gifted child,it is almost impossible u are able to involve in this dialogue presently to such extend petty suspicion u know!!!
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oh, and I just remembered, Innocent_malaysian is actualy the old FulcrumN, and I doubt some of the the posts of FulcrumN, while childish, were not exactly 11yr old type of stuff... And FulcumN apology seem sincere...
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Ohya ho!!! it looks like Innocent malaysia is the old fulcrum guys
actually it is alright i guess most of us here has virtually forgotten U.Now is your precessor Harimua hehehehe 
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To Exco
First point. Since you agree that military readiness is hard to judge, it is therefore important to strike a balance on what we can afford, what is "workable" and what is flashy. Is the MAF being extravagent (according to some forum members here) by buying the F18 and selling Palm oil in return ... I think not, but if we have to "counter" the F18 with more advanced stuff as the JSF etc .. it will definately cost us more treasure. I think the damage is done if we are on that kind of arms race footing.
Second Point. I am mainly interested in the current economic competiton between Malaysia and Singapore, not a real shooting one .. but I have to say, Malaysia has definately managed to beef up human capital better and faster than Singapore now. We rely on Ft to make up for lack of "ability" .. will it apply to our military? When we need foreigners to contribute to our creativity and productivity, we will also (by logic) need the same input into our military .. this is my concern if our SAF has a pool large enough to draw from.
Third point YES I agree with you on they copying us. .. but, they are being smart about it .. they are not buying the MOST expensive stuff on the block. They are also willing to discuss a barter trade (for palm oil) they are willing to look at alternate suppliers (South Korea and Poland) and they are also insisting on technoloigy transfer and building the thing in Malaysia (subs) So all in all who has a better policy?
We is the Singaporean people in general. I may be complacent in my knowledge of my military .. but I definately think that some of our well versed military folks have become totally complacent in our economy. -
actually im not 11....
im 9 years old... -
kenhor, I see your point. However you must realise that our defence expenditures are entirely within the drawn boundaries, and in no way they have a "significant" impact on our economy. I understand you are worried that the economy may take a hit due to much attention and significance placed on the military. That is understandable, but like I've said above, it doesn't affect or economy by a large margin. The "impact", if any, has been calculated and weighed to see if any offsets are worth the money spent on the military.
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Third point YES I agree with you on they copying us. .. but, they are being smart about it .. they are not buying the MOST expensive stuff on the block. They are also willing to discuss a barter trade (for palm oil) they are willing to look at alternate suppliers (South Korea and Poland) and they are also insisting on technoloigy transfer and building the thing in Malaysia (subs) So all in all who has a better policy?
Yes, but we are not stupid either. Since when do we buy the most expensive stuff? we could have gone for top of the line fighters, ie F15s, or expensive US frigates and destroyers. They are willing to discuss barter trade mainly because they CANNOT afford to pay in hard cash for their purchases, there is a difference. Singapore has also tech transfer as one of its requirements, however the US is not cooperating with Singapore on that issue, thus forcing us to source our armaments from other countries, namely France and more recently, Russia. Singapore Technologies has a division dedicated to building local military armaments. Our rifles, Missile Corvettes, Landing Ship Tank, Armoured Fighting Vehicles, amongst others, are all produced locally. So economically there is a balance. Policy? Malaysia's policy, to me, has always been "talk loud, talk big, never mind if we don't have the money."[/b][/quote] -
i predict that malaysia will order/recieve a light carrier b4 2010....
i know i dont have proof....but that was just a prediction.... -
Don't flame me horOriginally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:i predict that malaysia will order/recieve a light carrier b4 2010....
i know i dont have proof....but that was just a prediction....
believe it or not, but my insider source say that the tiny red dot is secretly develop "Gundam" transformer technology and "Gozilla" mutant using latest advancement in bio tech as weapon of mass destruction....also in the pipeline they capture an alien attack UFO and galactic battle crusier sometime back in Pulau Tekong and with the help of some Israeli freak scientist, they are able to replicate these technology, predicted first prototype appearing sometime around 2010. Heard one of these "alien technology" is the recently announced newater, soon come with detergent flavour or more exotic urine flavour (exported only). So don't freak out if you see something funny in the air -
Can you predict this week 4D Lottery number for me?Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:i predict that malaysia will order/recieve a light carrier b4 2010....
i know i dont have proof....but that was just a prediction.... -
Wellcome back,boy.i thought no more postings from you...?heheeOriginally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:i predict that malaysia will order/recieve a light carrier b4 2010....
i know i dont have proof....but that was just a prediction....
Can't resist ,huh..?Well...i look forward to your return otherwise this forum'll be a bit boring....... -
Good!!!! I will pray Malaysia get a carrier!!! Then dun have to fight we also win liao!!!!
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Oh oh!!! and don't forget the mutated sharks with lasers mounted on their heads! i heard that one's a hot favourite among DSTA and Israeli scientists studying new ways to destroy ships and submarines...Originally posted by bigballs11:Don't flame me hor believe it or not, but my insider source say that the tiny red dot is secretly develop "Gundam" transformer technology and "Gozilla" mutant using latest advancement in bio tech as weapon of mass destruction....also in the pipeline they capture an alien attack UFO and galactic battle crusier sometime back in Pulau Tekong and with the help of some Israeli freak scientist, they are able to replicate these technology, predicted first prototype appearing sometime around 2010. Heard one of these "alien technology" is the recently announced newater, soon come with detergent flavour or more exotic urine flavour (exported only). So don't freak out if you see something funny in the air
and there's talk of breeding mutant man eating "luohan" fish too! to eat up all the sickening fishermen complaining about our live-firing exercise...
and remember those SAMs disguised as lamposts we talked about the last time? turns out that they've got mid range surface to surface missiles disguised as lamp posts too... all conventional warheads fortunately...
and that big building on the Sg side of the causeway actually transforms into a giant robot!
mwahahahahahaha!