Malaysia's Big Weapons Armament Purchase
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To exco
To many, our defence may seem to be within "acceptable" boundaries .. but I disagree .. our defence expenditure per GDP is a higher percentage than any of our neighbours. (I read this somewhere but I can't prove it .. hope that you can search this for me) And since our GDP is still higher than our nearest neighbour, this spending is more than theirs even in $ terms .. I do not think it neccessary as we are the defender. (of course, unless we become the aggressor, then that is a different story)
Now, we see also the Malaysian government spending on health, education, sports, transportation etc. They have created a middle class that is better off than us (car, house and golf club is no problem for them) In fact, statistics in AWSJ show that 60% of the vehicles sold in ASEAN is in Malaysia. Not to mention that house sales are at all time high, interest rates are low. They are just not improving their military but their whole quality of life. Our government are not keeping up on our other factors of our society as the same level as our military. Hence I feel that the military has been getting too much of our budget pie and hence the rest of the economy will suffer as a result.
Then we come to the story of procurement. If the enemy really plans to use their equipment, then of course they will be really buying reliable stuff. However, in my expirence in dealing with them, their number one piority is to get kickbacks. Their government may have to cough up 1 billion (500k cash and 500k oil palm) for 2 subs, but lots of the money will be diverted to a contracting company, it will also be used to get jobs. So in other words, their arms purchases are used not only for defence, but also to sell oil palm to new markets and also to create jobs (their new sub base in sitiawan definately employs lots more people than we think)
So I disagree with you that we are spending the right amount. i think we are overspending and that some of the budget can be diverted to provide better facilities to the poor, aged and needy.
Of course, if the Malaysians don't make noise when we spend the big bucks in OUR arms purchases, you know that we are dancing to their beat. -
its 3billion per yr my fren...its has been like tis for the past 20 years
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ok comparing singapore and malaysia defence spending i agree ours is so much high in terms of GDP percentage.Our massive military spending doesnt really effect singapore's economic i can say it is well balance economic and defense wise.Having a high defense budget can keep our country strong enough to deter enemy forces or maybe keep potential aggressor at bay knowing this is not some children play.Offensive is the best defense having a mighty force we can not only defence our homeland,we can even push them back into their house,we could even storm their house if we have to!!
U cant compare the amount of cars singapore or malaysia have.
different country different road regulation it is not that we cant afford cars it is all that ERP...etc makes singaporean think twice that is it worthwhile to buy one ??? In malaysia there is definitely much lesser road taxes..etc and car there are cheap compare with singapore.Secondly singapore has one of the world most well linked country we have bus services that link us to almost all part of singapore or to our doorsteps,we have MRT that transport us from one place to another swiftly,in the city we have buses that are free of charge..etc.These system make most of us feel unneccesary to
get a car.
A well to do defense industries do provide ample jobs for skilled the unemployed.When the defense industries is doing well it means there will be more foreign or local orders for defense equipments take for example RSN frigate which is still in construction not only it generated employment singapore also gain technology from france DCN.this is what i call one stone kill two bird.See a huge defence budget can also have so many means of advantages
IF u are a singaporean u can see for yourself do u think malaysian governement is doing alots for their people comparing to singapore government .Their defense budget is no as high as ours and yet how much did they do for the malaysian no high speed train linking from North to South or anywhere else their people have to drive
and when they drive they are also generating money for their government since car uses patrol fuel......
Look at singapore a country with high defense budget virtually all govt school are rebuild with the latest infrastructure computers..
new builds are build so student have ample space to study and develop their talents.Our standard of living is higher and we dun need to always fear that food we eat outside could cause us food poisoning.........all these comes from our GDP.
That is y i said singapore defense economic and socially are well balanced. -
Originally posted by kenhor:
and what, may i ask is the percentage of their middle class against their total population? i don't have statistics (yet) but it all seems a little bottom-heavy to me...
Now, we see also the Malaysian government spending on health, education, sports, transportation etc. They have created a middle class that is better off than us (car, house and golf club is no problem for them)
they would either be Chinese (who've always been slightly better off) or bumis (who've been sponging off the gov't) and among the bumis, the number isn't increasing as quickly as it should considering how much money's been spent on them over the past 2, 3 decades...
vehicle sales are high because it has become cheaper in real terms to own vehicles there while it has become prohibitively expensive to do so here, not necessarily (solely) because the people are getting a lot richer. its both a demand and a supply issue.
In fact, statistics in AWSJ show that 60% of the vehicles sold in ASEAN is in Malaysia. Not to mention that house sales are at all time high, interest rates are low. They are just not improving their military but their whole quality of life. Our government are not keeping up on our other factors of our society as the same level as our military. Hence I feel that the military has been getting too much of our budget pie and hence the rest of the economy will suffer as a result.
house sales are up because the malaysians are not the only ones buying houses and those buying them are not buying them to live in them. u are looking at real estate speculation, not real demand patterns.
interest rates are low because they need to stimulate spending to make up for falling investments and external demands. the long run result result of such a policy is inflation... there's never a win win situation in economics...However, in my expirence in dealing with them, their number one piority is to get kickbacks. Their government may have to cough up 1 billion (500k cash and 500k oil palm) for 2 subs, but lots of the money will be diverted to a contracting company, it will also be used to get jobs. So in other words, their arms purchases are used not only for defence, but also to sell oil palm to new markets and also to create jobs (their new sub base in sitiawan definately employs lots more people than we think)
you actually think that kick-backs help the economy by providing more jobs?????
ST employs more people than u think too... so whats wrong with Sg having a healthy defence industry and the gov't spending what it always has on it?So I disagree with you that we are spending the right amount. i think we are overspending and that some of the budget can be diverted to provide better facilities to the poor, aged and needy.
that is a social responsibility, not a political one. u want the government to take care of your parents for u when they grow old??? its not a perfect world and declaring war on poverty only opens up a bottomless pit.
everyone does what they can for the less fortunate, but the best thing u can do for the poor is not to become one of them!Of course, if the Malaysians don't make noise when we spend the big bucks in OUR arms purchases, you know that we are dancing to their beat.
more like they dancing to our tune
... when on earth did we announce a major arms acquisition in reaction to one of theirs??? -
Although you have addressed exco in your post, I would also like to voice some of my opinions in the form of a response to your post.
I agree that our large defence expenditure may seem unjustified to some people. Its is also larger than that of our neighbours. However, if we just take a look at the defence capability of our nieghbours, they are not very impressive, are they? Take Indonesia for example, how strong are they militarily? While one may argue back that it is exactly the fact that our nieghbours are spending less on defence as the argument for Singapore to do the same, I would like to point out another case study: The Philippines.
The Abu Sayaff rebel group has run rings arond the Filippino miliary for sometime.and the Amerixans even have to step in to help them with this internal threat.
Many larger countries in the region spend little on defence because they do not have the capablity to do so. Countries like this include Nam, Cambodia and Laos.
Malaysia is a different case. They have spent alot recently on their military if you haven't bothered to read our earlier posts. They also have a significant military capability. However, while they are building a significant middle class, have you noted the policy of their government? It is a very racist policy they have in palce there. We should also consider the transparency of their government. While the Singapore government also does not exactly tell its citizens everything, the Singapore government has a proven record for not being corrupted. Also, would you review the situation and laws in the states in Malaysia ruled by PAS?
I haven't heard about how well their middle class is doing, but I don't see what is so bad about Singapore currently...
rushing my homework, well give better ans later if i think of one and i come back here... -
I am moving our economic discussions to a new thread. Please reply there. Don't want to bother people who want to discuss on purely military stuff.
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i predict the next 4D no. is 1127
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hahaha.....so did u buy n win?Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:i predict the next 4D no. is 1127 -
yes.....i won 2000 bucks.....
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Come on lar Tripwire... don't talk like a kid.. mi respect wif ur military knowledge but sometimes wen u talk too much ..it's just a rubbish..Originally posted by tripwire:2 miserable submarine can do wat???? the minute they show their face by attacking someone... they will be hunted down by our air force and navy like rats!! South china sea leh... you think pacific ocean har?
I not scared if they attack... in fact... its more troublesome if they dont attack our ships!! because then... we will have to be constantly under stress.... puke...maybe we can put up a bait and fish for them 
MRLS??? if i am the general... i am not even gonna waste my time on them... let them shoot... blow up our airbase lah... we got so many alternative runways and our planes are all underground... at most i let my pilot play poker while the malaysian fire their MRLS... once they finish their rockets... their resupply base is all the way across the pacific ocean... muahahaaa........
Later on.. then i will send my pilots.. take their planes and fly to KL and napalm their entire city into a sea of fire... see who more evil....
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eh..u urself also keep toking abt crap..at least he got some knowledge..u?Originally posted by Kol:Come on lar Tripwire... don't talk like a kid.. mi respect wif ur military knowledge but sometimes wen u talk too much ..it's just a rubbish..
TUA KANG YAO SIU!!!
wahahaha..wat spie in singapore..kill many pple..limpeh damn scared..wahaha -
Fuyooooo too patriotic... i'm scare.... really scareeee...Originally posted by NathanG5:eh..u urself also keep toking abt crap..at least he got some knowledge..u?
TUA KANG YAO SIU!!!
wahahaha..wat spie in singapore..kill many pple..limpeh damn scared..wahaha
i learn more bout Sing armies.. no need to tell u... but if Sing really practice it's forward def.... damn u're in deep trouble.... u can keep ur dream to invade Johor in 24 hrs or less but once ur armies landed... u're a dead man.... i'm not cock talking or b***sh@*ting u but then u'll realised it's too late
I'm not talking bout ur high tech jet fighter or vessel etc but ur troops...
Most of u have a knowledge bout our fighter or frigate capabalities.. but not our ramd, ranger, intelligent, special forces or *** unit. -
if there is anything worth mentioning about the pathetic malaysian army... i am pretty sure SAF would have long heard about them..and formulate contigencies against those little pest....Originally posted by Kol:Fuyooooo too patriotic... i'm scare.... really scareeee...
i learn more bout Sing armies.. no need to tell u... but if Sing really practice it's forward def.... damn u're in deep trouble.... u can keep ur dream to invade Johor in 24 hrs or less but once ur armies landed... u're a dead man.... i'm not cock talking or b***sh@*ting u but then u'll realised it's too late
I'm not talking bout ur high tech jet fighter or vessel etc but ur troops...
Most of u have a knowledge bout our fighter or frigate capabalities.. but not our ramd, ranger, intelligent, special forces or *** unit.
Luckily for us... so far.. the only comment about MAF army was a US army report that questions the "ability" (or should we say, the lack of it) of its ground troops with the only exception being the MAF 4th mech brigade... i am pretty sure... a few napalm will settle them pretty easily...
Lastly... isnt MAF army the ones that lost a few hundred rifles plus ammunitions to a half dozen actors not so long ago?? wow... i must say.. all of us in singapore dropped our jaws upon the news breaking...
while we knew MAF is a wayang army... we didnt expect them to be so the jialat... maybe we can get someone to forge mahatir's signature or even put a mahatir double on the screen and order them to kill each other... save us the trouble and the bullets at the same time....
Anyway... i thank you for your concern about our troopers safety and well-being... but rest assured... we arent going in just to get ourselves killed... in fact... we are there to hunt down all your rangers, blah blah blah ....... it will be bloody... but ... that is why everybody hates war... -
man, i blur
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A very interesting read regarding the Malaysian Army field commander's (inappropriate) reaction to the arms heist. . .
http://www.malaysia.net/lists/sangkancil/2000-07/msg00554.html -
Sorry for the long absence... I hope someone miss me
Anyway I don't know anything about military and bla bla bla... I just wanna ask a question to the malaysian out there...
Why suddenly make things difficult for us ??
Why quarrel with us with water, with pulau ubin, with this and that and even snatch singapore business by copying everything wholesale... Why ?? Wat have we done ? How have we offend Malaysia ?? We r a small island, with lot of resource problems like land and etc, trying to survive in this competitive world and terrible age, why not cooperate but keep on kicking us in the shin ?
HOw does this start off initially ?? SOmeone answer me
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you are wasting your time and our time....
competition is a daily affair of buissness... to question malaysian on their wish to compete with us is equivalent to asking why shops along the same street are fighting for the same dollar on the street...
to question malaysians over their out of line claim over singapore territory is as good as asking an idiot why he is an idiot....
let me give you one advice... dont try to talk to monkeys... cos... they are.... (yes, you guess it) monkeys...
my last sentence appears a bit harsh on the malaysians... but actually the reason for their less then logical expression is actually quite logical in their views or from their perspective... the reason behind that is due to an orchestrated disinformation from the malaysian media... they were fed one sided stories and lies that makes them feel that singapore is the real bad guys.... when in fact.. its their PM that has gone bonkers....
IF we really want to prevent such negative feelings from malaysia... wat we can do initially is to boost all singapore TV channels signal to cover the whole SEA... and allow the malaysians to see our side of the story.... -
lolz...u keep shitting abt once we landed on Johore..we're dead man...hey we not undertaker leh...i also can say hey if u land on Singapore soil...ur a dead man too..simple rite..i also can type leh..Originally posted by Kol:Fuyooooo too patriotic... i'm scare.... really scareeee...
i learn more bout Sing armies.. no need to tell u... but if Sing really practice it's forward def.... damn u're in deep trouble.... u can keep ur dream to invade Johor in 24 hrs or less but once ur armies landed... u're a dead man.... i'm not cock talking or b***sh@*ting u but then u'll realised it's too late
I'm not talking bout ur high tech jet fighter or vessel etc but ur troops...
Most of u have a knowledge bout our fighter or frigate capabalities.. but not our ramd, ranger, intelligent, special forces or *** unit.
i didnt even say anything abt high tech stuff..wat u toking abt now?
ur toking abt wat ability in ur special forces? they r human rite? dun tell me they can become invisible u noe?....yes i dunno abt ur special forces...but do u noe abt ME? or some other guys??
do u noe i have adamantium coating on my bone..n i have adamantium claw as a weapon..i heal instantly also...hey im not bullshitting too man
watever shit u have...just bring it..make my day...i will hunt u guys down one by one...im ur nitemare tat will never leave... -
Well... I hope they have good reason for it...
EITHER we do not object to US campaigns and its policy (wat can we do against US, wat can china do against US, wat can UN do against US )
OR because we lend them money with some conditions attached... if we lend, we do a great favour to u... if we don't it is expected as this is wat life is all about isn't it ?? Why force people to do a favour to u ? if your close neighbours wanna borrow 80% of your lifesaving and u have a family to rear, will u lend it unconditionally ??
I hope they don't just hate us because they don't like our face
THey r suppose to be countries affair, not dealing with personal affairs -
it IS personal... some of these old personal rivalries go all the way back to pre-independence days...Originally posted by stupidissmart:I hope they don't just hate us because they don't like our face THey r suppose to be countries affair, not dealing with personal affairs
both countries are not that old and many of the "old guards" are still around... these old guards had issues with each other even before both countries were independent... and since separation was not exactly a rosy affair, u can bet that this did not help their personal anomosity...
mat mohd has hated Sg since his days as a medical student when the taxi he was in drove him to the servants' quarters when he wanted to visit his friend who lived in a rather prosperous district...
hee hee... he does quite look like a gardener now that we think about it... -
That is an original rumour that I have not heard before, but could be true.Originally posted by CX:..............when the taxi he was in drove him to the servants' quarters when he wanted to visit his friend who lived in a rather prosperous district......
The UMNO boys hated the guts of our Senior Minister, whom they feel is too arrogant for his own good, and for daring to speak so well in Bahasa during his maiden speech in the Federal Parliament - when Singapore was part of Malaysia.
They have never forgiven him for being obstinate in his stand of a "Malaysia for Malaysians", and for daring to question the dream of the Father of Malaysia - Tunku Abdul Rahman, who desired to create a nation of "Satu Bangsar, Satu Bahasa, Satu Negara".
"ONE Race, ONE Language, ONE Country"...???? -
ask the MF go and FxxK a tree ... if he so hated singapore back then, why he continue to study at NUS??Originally posted by CX:it IS personal... some of these old personal rivalries go all the way back to pre-independence days...
both countries are not that old and many of the "old guards" are still around... these old guards had issues with each other even before both countries were independent... and since separation was not exactly a rosy affair, u can bet that this did not help their personal anomosity...
mat mohd has hated Sg since his days as a medical student when the taxi he was in drove him to the servants' quarters when he wanted to visit his friend who lived in a rather prosperous district...
hee hee... he does quite look like a gardener now that we think about it...
furthermore... one taxi drivers non-intentional error or mistake does not give him the right to shoot the entire singapore and its people in the future...
So wat if it really did happened? is he so petty and idiotic that he cannot tell, that what he is saying now after decades looks dammed stupid and silly??
Cant he see that his terse linking of what happen in the past to wat he is doing now is pure rubbish?? he might as well order all malaysians dogs to be killed becos he was FxxK by a dog when he a child... KNNBCCCB -
dream is the right word. =DOriginally posted by Atobe:That is an original rumour that I have not heard before, but could be true.
The UMNO boys hated the guts of our Senior Minister, whom they feel is too arrogant for his own good, and for daring to speak so well in Bahasa during his maiden speech in the Federal Parliament - when Singapore was part of Malaysia.
They have never forgiven him for being obstinate in his stand of a "Malaysia for Malaysians", and for daring to question the dream of the Father of Malaysia - Tunku Abdul Rahman, who desired to create a nation of "Satu Bangsar, Satu Bahasa, Satu Negara".
"ONE Race, ONE Language, ONE Country"...???? -
well, i wouldn't quite put it in THAT kinda languageOriginally posted by tripwire:ask the MF go and FxxK a tree ... if he so hated singapore back then, why he continue to study at NUS??
furthermore... one taxi drivers non-intentional error or mistake does not give him the right to shoot the entire singapore and its people in the future...
So wat if it really did happened? is he so petty and idiotic that he cannot tell, that what he is saying now after decades looks dammed stupid and silly??
Cant he see that his terse linking of what happen in the past to wat he is doing now is pure rubbish?? he might as well order all malaysians dogs to be killed becos he was FxxK by a dog when he a child... KNNBCCCB
but yah... thats basically the point...
he felt slighted and he's been pissed off with what he perceives as arrogance on our part ever since...
well, its true sometimes i confess, i'm guilty as charged if arrogance is a crime... but its just unfortunate that this has clouded his judgement as PM... -
Originally posted by CX:
he felt slighted??? servant not human har?? he dammed the CCCB very damn high class isit?? sit taxi.... go university... KNNN he should go and have a good look in his toilet bowl......and surprised... he also only have 2 eye, ears, 1 nose and a mouth (or did we all miss something on his face? (2 horns??)
well, i wouldn't quite put it in [b]THAT kinda language but yah... thats basically the point...
he felt slighted and he's been pissed off with what he perceives as arrogance on our part ever since...
well, its true sometimes i confess, i'm guilty as charged if arrogance is a crime... but its just unfortunate that this has clouded his judgement as PM...
[/b] )
so wat if he is the PM of malaysia, so wat if he a doctor by trainning, so wat if he wear a stupid name tag, so wat if he is a Chao datuk or tan sri???.....
he still act like an uneducated brutish moron....cant he have some humility... or is that too much to ask from his royal over-titled assiness...
A taxi-driver slighted him... and he like that liow... so many times he call the malaysian malays ungrateful to him... so wat is he gonna do?? kill all the malays??