Have ministers lost their moral authority to lead?
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Don't tie up the salary increase to the meagre assistance given to the poor.Originally posted by robertteh:People can read from ministers' daily utterances and the media reports that all they are really interested in or concerned with is to continue to protect their own jobs and present their own versions of success to the outside world - whether Singaporeans share their success or not is immaterial
They can even say this with a straight face.
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they can say this with a monkey face tooOriginally posted by charlize:Don't tie up the salary increase to the meagre assistance given to the poor.
They can even say this with a straight face. -
leaders have to turn around and see if anyone is following....if there are, are they in chains?
have they lost the moral authority? in my book, they have...their insistence that it's not about money contradicts the very reason they claim the wages need to rise....
crutch mentality? it's not the poorly resourced because they have no access to the national monies, rather it's those entrusted to safeguard the national reserves who are enriching themselves.....from political appointments by riding on the coat tails of established personalties to scholarships and automatic promotions, tell me who are the ones with the crutches.... -
Why not linked? Both Vivian Balakrishnan and Dr. Yaccoob did not and probably could not explain that ministers' salary increments and assistance to the poor are separate issues ? One would have thought that ministers' performance is measured by the improvements in the lives of the people.Originally posted by charlize:Don't tie up the salary increase to the meagre assistance given to the poor.
They can even say this with a straight face.
This denial mode of the ministers only reflect the degree of intellectual and social divide between them and the poor. It is clear that our ministers now simply could not see the even the middle income earners or who used to be middle income earners are now getting poorer and are struggling with debts to pay all kinds of double charges and cost recoveries imposed by the ministers. -
The definitive answer to that question will arrive in 5 years' time.... Stay tuned!
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If he wants to ask for one billion per annum he can - just by asking his Teo Chee Hian to put up another benchmarking this time against Li Ka Shing or Bill Gate. He will sound very logical too as he can say that Li Ka Shing only applies his talent to manage one company but what he is doing affects the whole country. He can also justify his billion-dollar salary and say that he has transformed this little red dot into a metropolis unlike Denmark, Finland or Switzerland which have all the resources (forgetting to mention these are bigger countries and their people are more demanding of their ministers' performance and abilities)
Just imagine in the parliamentary debate he will say to Low Thia Khiang " You can stand here in this house to argue with me whether I have done it better than Denmark, Finland and Switzerland" all because I have transformed this country 40 years ago from a swamp land."
Who will want to argue with such logics ever again. -
those who script LHL speech might be picking up tips from you soon...Originally posted by robertteh:If he wants to ask for one billion per annum he can - just by asking his Teo Chee Hian to put up another benchmarking this time against Li Ka Shing or Bill Gate. He will sound very logical too as he can say that Li Ka Shing only applies his talent to manage one company but what he is doing affects the whole country. He can also justify his billion-dollar salary and say that he has transformed this little red dot into a metropolis unlike Denmark, Finland or Switzerland which have all the resources (forgetting to mention these are bigger countries and their people are more demanding of their ministers' performance and abilities)
Just imagine in the parliamentary debate he will say to Low Thia Khiang " You can stand here in this house to argue with me whether I have done it better than Denmark, Finland and Switzerland" all because I have transformed this country 40 years ago from a swamp land."
Who will want to argue with such logics ever again.
Wow Such logic! -
they look like a YES man to me. anyone of them is opposing to any thing at all? notice anyone who say NO before? where now? quit or ask to leave?Originally posted by robertteh:One by one, after PM Lee beat the retreat and announced that he would donate his own pay rise to charity, the ministers like Vivian Balakrishnan and Yaccoob all came out to speak on the issue trying to make it look like PM Lee has already long ago decided to donate his own pay rise to charity.
Do people believe the ministers any more? What are they trying to tell Singaporeans ? Are they trying to convince citizens that our ministers are people of high moral standing and not people who only want to enrich themselves.
Have the ministers lost their authority to lead if people no longer believe in what they are saying?
YOU tell me? -
Even if we don't believe them, what can we do? They are the ruling party they do what that fancy them, just ask ourselves do they really genuinely hear our voice? We know the answer.Originally posted by robertteh:One by one, after PM Lee beat the retreat and announced that he would donate his own pay rise to charity, the ministers like Vivian Balakrishnan and Yaccoob all came out to speak on the issue trying to make it look like PM Lee has already long ago decided to donate his own pay rise to charity.
Do people believe the ministers any more? What are they trying to tell Singaporeans ? Are they trying to convince citizens that our ministers are people of high moral standing and not people who only want to enrich themselves.
Have the ministers lost their authority to lead if people no longer believe in what they are saying?
Sometimes, we got to thank those who have voted for them. To those who vote for them- please don't make noise if they are not performing to your expectations. Have your cake and eat it, shut up!!
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I am not sure....
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Pegging salaries to top private sector earners instead of pegging against top civil servants in top countries(any country, you name it).
Unbelievable.
They may have brought Singapore to the world stage(good infrastructure, transport, school system blahblah) but there are many who fall through the crack and are very poor and desperate. In fact, in our country the rich get richer while the middle class and "peasants" suck it up. The economy can boom and skyrocket, but all us peasants will see is inflation and stagnant wages. -
they shouldn't either.. ministers are NOT civil servants...
i still think there is merit in what Sylvia Lim proposed (and of course ignored by the MIW) where the wages are pegged to the average of the LOWEST wages and multiplied an appropriate factor.. that will ensure that there is an incentive for the mini-stars to serve the least of us as much as they are serving the richest of us..Originally posted by crimson soldier:Pegging salaries to top private sector earners instead of pegging against top civil servants in top countries(any country, you name it).
Unbelievable.
They may have brought Singapore to the world stage(good infrastructure, transport, school system blahblah) but there are many who fall through the crack and are very poor and desperate. In fact, in our country the rich get richer while the middle class and "peasants" suck it up. The economy can boom and skyrocket, but all us peasants will see is inflation and stagnant wages. -
I think that was Low Thia Kiang who said that, and PAP laughed at him as if he's a kid.Originally posted by the Bear:they shouldn't either.. ministers are NOT civil servants...
i still think there is merit in what Sylvia Lim proposed (and of course ignored by the MIW) where the wages are pegged to the average of the LOWEST wages and multiplied an appropriate factor.. that will ensure that there is an incentive for the mini-stars to serve the least of us as much as they are serving the richest of us..
i don't like the way our PAP behaves. No difference from Taiwan, belittling opposition, and just ignoring their very good points. So what if we don't come to fists in the parliament. Its about the same, the way they mudsling the opposition -
before the debate starts they have already reached the conclusion
what democracy! -
statistics don't tell lies. the user do
comparing apple to apple or orange to apple at their whim and fancy -
By the way they are currying favors of the autocrats, it is clear that they would be advancing their own career prospect. Vivian will get confirmed in his full minister's post while Yaccoob will become one of the key ministers together with Teo Chee Hian.Originally posted by Joshua1975:they look like a YES man to me. anyone of them is opposing to any thing at all? notice anyone who say NO before? where now? quit or ask to leave?
YOU tell me?
This is how the system runs - take me if you can because you cannot do anything. No wonder there are so many NKFs and Shin Corpses. -
Interesting topic. I think they have lost it long time ago.
There is another interesting question which i have thought it recently.
Minister without moral or without moral authority= Public enemy? -
i think the ministers never put in enough effort to think of a good reason to justify increase.
if i was one of them, confirm i would think up a damn good answer which would satisfy all the ah pehs and ah bengs here haha. too bad the ministers never plan their move carefully.
hm in fact why they even bother to be transparent and reveal their pay? they are parliment, they can just say
" for security reasons, ie kidnapping, all ministers pay and pay changes will be kept strictly confidential."
thus, they can continue increasing it on the inside with nobody outside the wiser. ignorance is bliss.
ah not too late still, they can just draft that new law anytime they want in the future. hehehe -
Sigh!!Originally posted by SevenEleven:statistics don't tell lies. the user do
comparing apple to apple or orange to apple at their whim and fancy What they want they will get it! Statistic is just something for show only. Democracy where are you? -
They lost it the moment they came up with the ridiculous benchmarking of their salaries.
SG's a world with double, even triple standards. When the economy is doing well, it's entirely due to their competence and foresight. Whenever the economy takes a dip, "oh, external events are not within our control". "Being open and globalised, SG is vulnerable to the whims of the global economy".
I believe the difference between workers and ministers regarding their competitivenesses was highlighted earlier. -
Now let us ask ourselves, Will you listen and follow a person who don't have moral authority?
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Does it mean that if their pay isn't increased? They will be corrupted?
It is this logic that I do not understand. -
The very moment they abolished public non-violent protests, the government has lost the very moral authority to lead. As these non-violent protests, and the right to free speech and peaceful assembly, was what PAP and other civil societies used to oust the british in the 50's and 60's. And now they abolish it?
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They made use of that bridge to dominate and now they disallow people to use the bridge? Don't sound reasonable isn't it?Originally posted by Jontst78:The very moment they abolished public non-violent protests, the government has lost the very moral authority to lead. As these non-violent protests, and the right to free speech and peaceful assembly, was what PAP and other civil societies used to oust the british in the 50's and 60's. And now they abolish it? -
Yup, there is alot more info in the book
"The power of courage". By Dr Chee Soon Juan
Available from Kinokuniya at around SGD$15.
Some may not agree with his methods, but read this book with an open mind, he does raise serval very valid points with regards to freedom of speech and association here in Singapore. Good light reading.