HOTA: Opt Out and You are Marked...!
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props to that.
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So, if I have opted in, and if I'm next in line, but there's no organ I still die because too many people are OPTING OUT? >> But why, and what do you think made people wanna Opt Out? Just as similar as asking why do people generally don't want to go near a garbage dump - it smells...Originally posted by gasband:
I can understand the GOOD purpose of HOTA, but somehow, this policy (as with many others) is half-cooked... hard to digest...
Don't ask me if I can come up with a better solution, because our multimillion dollar salaried gov and ministers should be able to come up with really bright ideas for all the TALENTS that they possess...! No?
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Originally posted by ShutterBug:So, if I have opted in, and if I'm next in line, but there's no organ I still die because too many people are OPTING OUT? >> But why, and what do you think made people wanna Opt Out? Just as similar as asking why do people generally don't want to go near a garbage dump - it smells...
Well if you think it smells, dun complain when people find gold in the rubbish dumps. you chose not to.
I can understand the GOOD purpose of HOTA, but somehow, this policy (as with many others) is half-cooked... hard to digest...
Don't ask me if I can come up with a better solution, because our multimillion dollar salaried gov and ministers should be able to come up with really bright ideas for all the TALENTS that they possess...! No?
Well they should and we all expect them to. But for all the rantings, i tot you might be not just a all talk no action person. But well turns out you are another coffeeshop uncle. -
I just feel that something is MORALLY wrong with the way HOTA is run.
> If you Opt Out, you are given NO priority - meaning you are left to die because you chosed to keep your organs for whatever personal reasons
> If you Opt In, and if (touch wood) you end up critically ill, such as in a coma - your family members may have no say about keeping you sustained another day just for hope that you wake up.
Who says there's no proof that they do that to critically ill people? It's in the God Damned papers!
And I bet, you don't stand a flying-fark of a chance of surviving if you ever fall into a coma - doctors would probably recommend TERMINATION of life support! You like that being suggested to you if your loved one is in a coma but YOU feel he or she may wake up tomorrow?? All because others are queing up for your loved one's organ/s???
I tell you, this HOTA is half-cooked as See-Hum inside a plate of Mee Siam!!! -
Ehh.. young person, don't say things you can't afford to take back...Originally posted by gasband:
because you eventually will become Auntie, or Uncle... coffeeshop or not... -
Sigh, useful program, bad management.
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i aman uncle already! You may be quite old for all i know. But I am 30 and maybe you are 55! Well does that matter? I do go to coffeeshops more than restaurants and thats why i heard many uncles who tok tok tok but in the end still vote PAP.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Ehh.. young person, don't say things you can't afford to take back...
because you eventually will become Auntie, or Uncle... coffeeshop or not... -
If that's the dilemma confronting you, I suggest you seek help from the mafia. Afterall, I'm sure only criminals can work out the minds and modus operandi of their kind (ie.thos who run HOTA).Originally posted by ShutterBug:I just feel that something is MORALLY wrong with the way HOTA is run.
> If you Opt Out, you are given NO priority - meaning you are left to die because you chosed to keep your organs for whatever personal reasons
> If you Opt In, and if (touch wood) you end up critically ill, such as in a coma - your family members may have no say about keeping you sustained another day just for hope that you wake up.
Who says there's no proof that they do that to critically ill people? It's in the God Damned papers!
In all seriousness, this issue is actually one aspect where they could very well take a leaf out of the Brits' book and adopt their model in terms of prioritising and evaluating a particular recipient for his/her suitability of an organ transplant... -
Alo fren... people (uncle or not) will talk because of the way our gahmen does things. Older folks talk and grumble the most because they feel short-changed. Alright, as for voting, I have never had a chance to vote for opposition because my area is what they creatively called 'Walk Over'...Originally posted by gasband:i aman uncle already! You may be quite old for all i know. But I am 30 and maybe you are 55! Well does that matter? I do go to coffeeshops more than restaurants and thats why i heard many uncles who tok tok tok but in the end still vote PAP.
I am certainly not one who will vote for them for all my talking...!
Problem is, some people 'have to' vote for them because of their business.. you think ALL the people who voted them did so SINCERELY?? It's like someone pointing a gun to your head, and then say; "Choose wisely..."
Just like the HOTA... -
haha ok i agree to disagree with you. So i will just take it that you are just ranting lah and not trying to achieve anything. Well that i can accept, we all need whiny moments sometimes.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Alo fren... people (uncle or not) will talk because of the way our gahmen does things. Older folks talk and grumble the most because they feel short-changed. Alright, as for voting, I have never had a chance to vote for opposition because my area is what they creatively called 'Walk Over'...
I am certainly not one who will vote for them for all my talking...!
Problem is, some people 'have to' vote for them because of their business.. you think ALL the people who voted them did so SINCERELY?? It's like someone pointing a gun to your head, and then say; "Choose wisely..."
Just like the HOTA... -
Your suggestion is clear and simple, but the idiosyncrasity of our gov is; they implement a policy or Act, but would shun the extra work involved in the nitty-gritty of evaluating or assessing individual's suitability and or circumstances...Originally posted by walesa:If that's the dilemma confronting you, I suggest you seek help from the mafia. Afterall, I'm sure only criminals can work out the minds and modus operandi of their kind (ie.thos who run HOTA).
In all seriousness, this issue is actually one aspect where they could very well take a leaf out of the Brits' book and adopt their model in terms of prioritising and evaluating a particular recipient for his/her suitability of an organ transplant...
I mean, they just wanna have their cake and eat it, but we can't because they want... you know what I mean?? -
The achievement of all of us in here, is to TALK or DEBATE about certain issues that are not quite right or well implemented. When you get enough people talking or grumbling, more people becomes aware of the bad-smelling policy or Act, and soon the makers of these policies or acts, will come to hear of it.Originally posted by gasband:haha ok i agree to disagree with you. So i will just take it that you are just ranting lah and not trying to achieve anything. Well that i can accept, we all need whiny moments sometimes.
But whether it would change anything or not, that's entirely up to our gov - whether they choose to lose more votes or win back lost votes in the next GE... -
If the Muslims are waived from HOTA, what happens if one of them needs an organ transplant urgently? Will their relatives be called to donate or will they be put in the waiting list like non-donors? What if it is a Muslim big shot in government who needs a transplant?
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Yes, people should ask these sort of questions...Originally posted by MamaRos:If the Muslims are waived from HOTA, what happens if one of them needs an organ transplant urgently? Will their relatives be called to donate or will they be put in the waiting list like non-donors? What if it is a Muslim big shot in government who needs a transplant?
They talk about Equality, but look at the all the divisions and classifications!
Perhaps they may have some info at their website, but how detailed I don't know. -
That's the irony of paying first world wages to first world criminals who do a third world job.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Your suggestion is clear and simple, but the idiosyncrasity of our gov is; they implement a policy or Act, but would shun the extra work involved in the nitty-gritty of evaluating or assessing individual's suitability and or circumstances...
I mean, they just wanna have their cake and eat it, but we can't because they want... you know what I mean??
It's not rocket science such schemes can be effectively implemented in any civilised country - and the UK does that for free and its donors are not people who have chosen not to opt out. Rather, its donors are people who opt in.
As a matter of fact, in most civilised societies, the slightest notion of having its citizenry opting into any - de facto - official scheme by default, on its own, would already be questionable and form the subject of much debate, much less pushing through such shambolic practices and have them enacted into law.
In truth, the issue surrounding the status of Muslims in this scheme is nothing more than mess brought about by the criminals. If this scheme operated on an "opt in" basis, this problem wouldn't even surface... -
Why can't silence mean consent? Your monthly internet, phone bills, bank statements, credit card statements all have a condition saying "If we do not hear from you within 14 days, we will take this statement as correct and binding." So if you do not agree to "Silence means consent", then why do u have any telco/bank/credit card accounts? If silence dun mean consent then these companies will have to employ another 40,50 people just to track your monthly replies. Hurray, more jobs for people.Originally posted by ditzy:I wasn't even sent a mailer.
Anyway, things work like this in singapore. Silence means consent. Anybody read today's news about the family uninformed about the en-bloc sale?
So if the family didn't want to sell the house, they just dun reply and keep mum. So if one refused to pay his or her credit card bill he/her can dun reply and keep mum and say i dunno. If a criminal charge in court after killing somebody can say i dunno killing is illegal. So if today one is walking and slip on a banana skin and fell down hitting his head on the pavement thus breaking his skull, the banana thrower can just shrub and walk away saying i dunno banana skin cannot anyhow throw, and you're ok with it?
Contract law states as long as a letter is sent by post to the mailing address provided, in the eyes of the law it is considered as received. -
Say today you are a manager in charge of promoting one staff from a pool of ten. All things being the same, 5 staff always stays back half hour more everyday to settle the ongoing projects, while the other 5 always leave on the dot. Would the former 5 have a higher chance of the latter?Originally posted by helpdesk^^:Somehow I cannot reconcile the fact that when a person opts out of donation, he will be placed on a lower priority as compared to the others who opt in or rather stay in. There could be numerous doubts in our minds. And then how about the decision to stay-in purely as "insurance" that you may need the donation one day? I think it is not a good attitude like that..... Like being :forced" to stay-in....
One point of concern is that how many who stay in actually know they can opt out? Those who receive mailers and can read - yes. How about the others?
I have no ready solution to the problem but I cannot accept it at face value when they say that they will ensure zero mistakes. How many times zero mistakes situations have given rise to problems? More than once is already intolerable. Do we claim a zero mistake medical industry right now? I doubt so....
Say today u are the bugger holding one organ in your hands. There are three people requiring this organ to save themselves. All things being the same, except for one, who on top of what the other 2 do, helps out in his spare time at the old folks home. Who will u give this organ to?
I'm sure u make mistakes. Me too. I'm sure nobody can say they had never made a mistake in their life, and nobody can say they will never make a mistake in future. Since u know that, then why are u denying others a chance to be save? Perhaps I myself will be on the deathbed, and the people responsible mis-diagnoised me. I'm taken off life support, innocently killed because of a mistake, but at least my organs can save someone else.
Nothing is fair in this world. Sometimes we get the good stuff while others get the bad. If we get the bad stuff, perhaps we should stop worrying about it and move on. In this case, if we're mis-diagnoised, at least when we look down from heaven we see someone else granted a 2nd chance in life. -
So where will your organs go to?Originally posted by LazerLordz:.............
I will decide where my organs go to, not any stat board. You cannot have your cake and eat it. The current media blitz in the New Paper by the MOH is simply a result of an increasing number of people opting out. One must understand that opting out of HOTA DOES NOT MEAN you are against ORGAN DONATION. It simply means that you retain CONTROL over who and what you choose to donate. We cannot use the language of efficiency when we deal with dying patients. It is anathema to the Hippocratic Oath.
Since u retain control over who and what u choose to donate, what actions had u taken to ensure this, before it is too late? (example deathly motor accidents, etc). -
Then???
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So what is the best way that should be done?Originally posted by ShutterBug:You see, the whole stupid thing about THE WAY the minsitry enforces HOTA, is this:
>> If you OPT IN, ok, so you are given priority in receiving an organ should you need one (touch wood..), but at the same time, if you are critically ill and are likely to die, what's your priority then? Let you quickly die so that your organs can go to someone waiting urgently for them?? What PRINCIPLE is this???
>> but if you OPT OUT, they say you are not given priorty should you need an organ transplant. You may end up waiting till die.
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If we can't change that, then what is the best we can do?
Highlighted in blue. Nobody say this is what happen in hospitals. -
Please dun reply for the sake of replying, with anything to contribute. You're just wasting time and space.Originally posted by walesa:Now you know how the criminals ruling this place operate. You're blackmailed in just about every sense imaginable - and people think we're a society free of organised crime... -
ahem.. please dun complain too much guys..
dun sound as if its a easy job being a government...
dun sound as if the policy is illogical at all.
you people just complain in the internet and think from your own point of view.
dun talk as if singapore government has contribute nothing to the society.
look here, singapore is well known for not having natural resources like other countries.... we cannot make everyone happy, especially if you all just complain and dun improve and mature.
being competitive and knowledge driven is our only options.
dun take the good things of being singaporean for granted and just picked the bad things to complain...
frankly speaking, being born in singapore is still ok loh, it neither very good.. but it is also not every bad either if we compare to poorer countries...
i see the taiwan news frequently, and the pple are complaining abt the government everyday, over many things. taiwan is worst than singapore in terms of social problems they have.
if you want to have a good life, then you must be born in dubai loh or some countries who has many money one. i hope dun be too easily influence by complain people down here. -
It doesn't matter. It does not matter why people opt out. Different people have differnt beliefs, different ideas. I dun like blue jeans, u love blue jeans. I dun wanna eat chicken rice. U may wanna. Many people love the nasi lemak from boon lay market. But there are some who dun. Would u consider why the small percentage who dun before u eat it?Originally posted by ShutterBug:So, if I have opted in, and if I'm next in line, but there's no organ I still die because too many people are OPTING OUT? >> But why, and what do you think made people wanna Opt Out? Just as similar as asking why do people generally don't want to go near a garbage dump - it smells...
I can understand the GOOD purpose of HOTA, but somehow, this policy (as with many others) is half-cooked... hard to digest...
Don't ask me if I can come up with a better solution, because our multimillion dollar salaried gov and ministers should be able to come up with really bright ideas for all the TALENTS that they possess...! No?
But even this does not matter.
cos at the end of the day, considering all this will not help save the next patient's life. -
But there are also thousands of people correctly diagonise and their organs used to save others.Originally posted by ShutterBug:...........
Who says there's no proof that they do that to critically ill people? It's in the God Damned papers!
And I bet, you don't stand a flying-fark of a chance of surviving if you ever fall into a coma - doctors would probably recommend TERMINATION of life support! You like that being suggested to you if your loved one is in a coma but YOU feel he or she may wake up tomorrow?? All because others are queing up for your loved one's organ/s???
I tell you, this HOTA is half-cooked as See-Hum inside a plate of Mee Siam!!!
The 2nd last paragraph, it's an extremely bias opinion.
For the last para, it's an interesting metaphor. -
Well said. EspeciallyOriginally posted by january:ahem.. please dun complain too much guys..
dun sound as if its a easy job being a government...
dun sound as if the policy is illogical at all.
you people just complain in the internet and think from your own point of view.
dun talk as if singapore government has contribute nothing to the society.
look here, singapore is well known for not having natural resources like other countries.... we cannot make everyone happy, especially if you all just complain and dun improve and mature.
being competitive and knowledge driven is our only options.
dun take the good things of being singaporean for granted and just picked the bad things to complain...
frankly speaking, being born in singapore is still ok loh, it neither very good.. but it is also not every bad either if we compare to poorer countries...
i see the taiwan news frequently, and the pple are complaining abt the government everyday, over many things. taiwan is worst than singapore in terms of social problems they have.
if you want to have a good life, then you must be born in dubai loh or some countries who has many money one. i hope dun be too easily influence by complain people down here.
"......especially if you all just complain and dun improve and mature.
dun take the good things of being singaporean for granted and just picked the bad things to complain..."