Which oppsition member wld u like 2 c in parliament nxt GE?
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yeah ! ... it's time to take down a few ministers ....
55.5 % next time round ! ... -
ya, since they said their jobs have risk also (excuse for obscene payrise), let's make it come true.Originally posted by Fatum:yeah ! ... it's time to take down a few ministers ....
55.5 % next time round ! ... -
actually, with 80 out of 82 parliamentary seats going to the PAP, I want to see ANY opposition politician become an MP.
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What if MIW holds 51% ? Will there be chaos?
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No.The other parties will just have to work with the PAP as a coalition, and they will, because Singaporeans at the basic level, still want results.Originally posted by Herroin:What if MIW holds 51% ? Will there be chaos?
At 51%, they may hold absolute majority, but at least they will have to push up their standards because not every Bill will get by without scrutiny. More ideas, more critical policy analysis will only improve things.
Efficiency is one thing, not taking time to think through the long-term impact of policies is simply retarded man.. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
Is it surprising how bias and skewed opinions can further skew other opinions ?
chee and his cartoon friends ..... cos
1. the pappies will know not to take the people's support for granted
2. the younger MPs will know how to deal with someone really slimy, not the docile, boundary respecting opposition that we have in parliament right now ....
3. Chee will do something really silly once he's in ... then the people will really see what a clown he is and finish him off once and for all after 4 years ... like that long haired fellow in hong kong ...
4. I'd like to see how the old guards tackle him in parliament ...
5. he'll inject a bit of colour to the proceedings ...
If you have the time - only when you have the time - then click on this revealing website, and you will be surprised how the views of some less controversial persons are parallel to CSJ's often publicly derided positions.
CSJ has been made to look like a clown, and intentionally promoted by the entire controlled public media so as to generate negative views like yours.
Surprisingly, during the QnA sessions, one in the audience had publicly stated surprise to his person and declared a change of position - (you will have to wait till towards the end).
If you have heard about CSJ's much publicised political views about democracy and about Singapore Politics, then you will be surprised at how other less controversial personality at this Forum seems to have views that are parallel to him.
If you are willing to open your mind, visit the following site, and click on each and every positions that are given; and you will have an unfettered and unedited views spoken honestly - from the panel and from the audience.
It is sad that Singaporeans will allow themselves to be blind sided by publicly sanctioned materials that favor those controlling such public information tools. -
I have read his comments on the pay hike, and I must say, his points make good sense, and the passion he exudes is not much lesser than Sylvia Lim's.Originally posted by Atobe:Is it surprising how bias and skewed opinions can further skew other opinions ?
If you have the time - only when you have the time - then click on this revealing website, and you will be surprised how the views of some less controversial persons are parallel to CSJ's often publicly derided positions.
CJS has been made to look like a clown, and intentionally promoted by the entire controlled public media so as to generate negative views like yours.
Surprisingly, during the QnA sessions, some in the audience had publicly stated that they are hearing CSJ at this Forum, and are publicly state their surprise to his person and have declared a change of position.
If you have heard about CSJ's much publicised political views about democracy and about Singapore Politics, then you will be surprised at how other less controversial personality at this Forum seems to have views that are parallel to him.
If you are willing to open your mind, visit the following site, and click on each and every positions that are given; and you will have an unfettered and unedited views spoken honestly - from the panel and from the audience.
It is sad that Singaporeans will allow themselves to be blind sided by publicly sanctioned materials that favor those controlling such public information tools.
The only probable reason why he is so screwed up is coz he can't control his emotions, and always tend to blabber off nonsense at the most crucial moments, that the PAP will happily fire a lawsuit at him.
Just see how WP avoided LKY when he challenged them during the elections. Smart moves I must say. Why confront the lion if you know you can't beat him? just divert your forces around the roaring lion, since he is trapped in his own cage (ie his constituency).
After his letter that I read, I must say my negative reactions to CSJ is lesser now. But, I must still say, the fall of opposition was caused by him, at a crucial time when Chiam See Tong was building up a credible opposition. -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
CSJ is still a young and a greenhorn in politics, and like anyone of us standing before a large crowd, will tend to get soft in the knees - no matter how many times you do the same presentation.
I have read his comments on the pay hike, and I must say, his points make good sense, and the passion he exudes is not much lesser than Sylvia Lim's.
The only probable reason why he is so screwed up is coz he can't control his emotions, and always tend to blabber off nonsense at the most crucial moments, that the PAP will happily fire a lawsuit at him.
Just see how WP avoided LKY when he challenged them during the elections. Smart moves I must say. Why confront the lion if you know you can't beat him? just divert your forces around the roaring lion, since he is trapped in his own cage (ie his constituency).
After his letter that I read, I must say my negative reactions to CSJ is lesser now. But, I must still say, the fall of opposition was caused by him, at a crucial time when Chiam See Tong was building up a credible opposition.
LKY was also emotional, and so was LHL with his 'fix the opposition' remarks, but how many will even be prepared to fix both of them through the judiciary process - knowing that it will hardly come out in the favor of the plaintiffs in such a pursuit ?
Why blame CSJ for Chiam See Tong's downfall ?
Chiam had it coming from within his own SPD even before CSJ was recruited into politics, when SDP was already seeing internal division with one camp supporting CST, and the other camp supporting the SDP Chairman - Ling Howe Doong.
Each had their own preferred approaches in confronting the Ruling Party, and since CST was the only one being elected into Parliament, he was seen to be too passive and ineffective, and less confrontational towards the Ruling Party.
The wrongful and dubious accusation made against CSJ by his University Faculty supervisor - Dr Vasoo - who was a known stalwart and hatchetman in the Ruling Party - split the SDP wider when CST attempted to censure CSJ in support of the dubious accusations levelled by Dr Vasoo.
Following this very public disagreement about CSJ, the SDP Executive Council passed a vote of no confidence to CST's leadership, who subsequently gave a press conference; and which led the SDP general membership to collectively vote him out of the SDP.
How could this be attributed to CSJ's fault ?
If at all, the entire blame should be CST's inability to lead his own SDP.
This event can be found in the following Wikipedia site, which did not see any attempt by CST or the SDP to make any amendments to the information given, so we could take it as some truth to the events that transpired.
If we were to blame the Opposition in general for their collective poor performance since the 1960s, we will have to blame the Barisan Sosialist under the late Dr Lee Siew Choh.
We could not possibly blame J.B. Jeyaratnam, who became a one-man show when the Ruling Party manouvred to cut his supporting legs with the arrest of some Catholic Church social activists during the early 1980s - some of whom were smart young lawyers giving the administrative support to JBJ.
CSJ was similarly poorly supported in the administrative background, with poor and inept researchers that provided him with flawed data, which caused him to be slaughtered publicly by George Yeo in the much anticipated televised confrontation about the Cost of Living in Singapore.
The weakness of the Opposition cannot be entirely be due to the fault of the Oppostion Parties, as the Ruling Party had purposefully undermined the Singaporean ability to support the Opposition either financially, or by giving moral support in the form of administrative service or otherwise.
Until Singaporeans learn to stand without fear of social or political or economic repurcussions for supporting the Opposition Parties, then we will see the development of stronger and more mature Opposition Parties.
Visit the website given in my previous post above, and you will hear the political views - of a NTU Associate Professor, Catherine Lim, CSJ, and others from the WP and PAP, as well as the views from others participating in this Forum - concerning the state of politics in Singapore, the dangers of continued state of affairs to the future of Singapore, and how Singapore can change for the better.
The road to progress is a long one, but it need us to open our minds and eyes to face new challenges with an open heart - to be brave and fearless. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
I am not interested in his views, ... cos it was never about his views, I've got my own thank you very much ..... it's about the man and his actions, call me traditional, call me so very chinese ... but if something screws up in my family, I don't need someone else telling me something needs to be done, even though it may seems that I'm not doing anything ... it's not just my right as part of my family, it is also my prerogative, as far as I'm concerned, that right belongs to me and members of my family and no one else ..... scaling up, it is the same thing for my country .... Singaporeans are the ones who vote here, and Singaporeans shall be the one who judges and decides.
Is it surprising how bias and skewed opinions can further skew other opinions ?
If you have the time - only when you have the time - then click on this [b]revealing website, and you will be surprised how the views of some less controversial persons are parallel to CSJ's often publicly derided positions.
CSJ has been made to look like a clown, and intentionally promoted by the entire controlled public media so as to generate negative views like yours.
Surprisingly, during the QnA sessions, one in the audience had publicly stated surprise to his person and declared a change of position - (you will have to wait till towards the end).
If you have heard about CSJ's much publicised political views about democracy and about Singapore Politics, then you will be surprised at how other less controversial personality at this Forum seems to have views that are parallel to him.
If you are willing to open your mind, visit the following site, and click on each and every positions that are given; and you will have an unfettered and unedited views spoken honestly - from the panel and from the audience.
It is sad that Singaporeans will allow themselves to be blind sided by publicly sanctioned materials that favor those controlling such public information tools.
[/b]
and don't bother talking about "the community of nations" and all that crap either ... the european left yak about getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and leaving other countries to their own devices, respecting other country's sovereignty and all that .... but seems perfectly happy to preach and meddle in other country's internal affairs ... while they are telling the americans and other assorted nations not to meddle in other countrys' affairs, they are doing the same thing themselves .... hypocrisy ?? ... I've meet plenty of those liberal, leftist, pot-smoking, long-haired flower-children during my uni days thank you very much, reading books by finklestein and co and calling themselves intellectuals .... they grow up to wear suits and work for NGOs and the UN, join the democrats or the greenies, but I compartmentalize them with those chaps will believes in aliens and elvis being alive ....
I'm very comfortable about the pace of "opening up" in Singapore personally, 3 million dollar scandals notwithstanding ... the fact alone that we are here yakking in this forum says a lot to me ... what I will not want to see is the opening of the floodgates too fast too soon ... look at the phillipines, look at taiwan ... where politics becomes a circus ... where the best showman wins ? ....
if i ever get the chance to make a choice at the ballot boxes, my vote will still never go to him or his party, I'll just scrape my vote .... -
whoa.. a little extreme to want sooo many opposition at once? But I don't mind seeing new faces in parliament. It is always good to have some opposition, some new ideas, new thoughts, new direction for Singapore. But to have so many opposition at once may spell chaos? Perhaps it would be better if some opposition members come in (pray they are the better ones), show Singapore they can do something, then slowly force a more fair election in Singapore? Then Singaporeans will benefit coz both sides will want to show/prove to the voters that they are better at managing the country.
Opposition should be made to work hard for their place in parliament (same goes for PAP of course), and should not be voted in just because PAP has been the ruling party for as many years as Singapore has been independent. -
Glenda Han of WP!!
I need eye candy.
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Fatum, ever consider what it means to be Singaporean and also a staunch believer in the right to intervene?
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+Chee Siok Chin
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errr by your logic, the police should not intervene in incest statutory rape cases?Originally posted by Fatum:I am not interested in his views, ... cos it was never about his views, I've got my own thank you very much ..... it's about the man and his actions, call me traditional, call me so very chinese ... but if something screws up in my family, I don't need someone else telling me something needs to be done, even though it may seems that I'm not doing anything ... -
Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Khiang have proven themselves to a able MPs. Sylvia Lim, with a down-to-earth mentality, will certainly not get carried away if elected as a full-fledged MP either.
Chee Soon Juan, given his activist nature and confrontation approach, is unlikely to fill the shoes of a concerned MP caring for his residents; better to leave him as the govt spoiler.
Gandhi Ambalam, in an interview in Gail's blog, seemed more activist rather than a concerned political hopeful. Coming from a decent educational background and having been chief editor of TCS (now mediacorp), i would expect him to exert a certain calm influence among voters; but somehow, it doesn't seem that way.
As GRC challengers, i would have liked to see the former WP West Coast GRC team led by Chia Ti Lik get voted in, as i felt they had perhaps the most credibilty and strength in depth, despite identical claims to Sylvia's Aljunied team. -
nay, I don't expect the PAP to lose power. I think they just need a wake-up call.Originally posted by candydnac:whoa.. a little extreme to want sooo many opposition at once? But I don't mind seeing new faces in parliament. It is always good to have some opposition, some new ideas, new thoughts, new direction for Singapore. But to have so many opposition at once may spell chaos? Perhaps it would be better if some opposition members come in (pray they are the better ones), show Singapore they can do something, then slowly force a more fair election in Singapore? Then Singaporeans will benefit coz both sides will want to show/prove to the voters that they are better at managing the country.
Opposition should be made to work hard for their place in parliament (same goes for PAP of course), and should not be voted in just because PAP has been the ruling party for as many years as Singapore has been independent.
The best lesson is a GRC or 2 get wiped out, and 1 or 2 ministers lose their million dollar salaries
then let's see if they can get a MUCH higher pay in the private sector
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I'm hoping to see 1/3 of Parliament belonging to other parties. That should be a more balanced government.Originally posted by soul_rage:nay, I don't expect the PAP to lose power. I think they just need a wake-up call.
The best lesson is a GRC or 2 get wiped out, and 1 or 2 ministers lose their million dollar salaries
then let's see if they can get a MUCH higher pay in the private sector -
hmmmm yeah ... I like that logic .... perhaps the goverment is "ass raping" the people by squeezing them too hard eh ? ...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:errr by your logic, the police should not intervene in incest statutory rape cases?
I'm not talking about "guo fa" I'm talking about "jia fa" .... if an uncle of yours is a chronic gambler ... do you go round the wet market announcing his ways to the world ? ... or do you call a quiet family conference to take things in hand ? .....
perhaps you will announce to the world you have a gambler uncle ... but it'll be the latter option for me ....
still, this nit-picking is pointless .... CSJ in parliament would be an entertaining spectacle, not as good as the long-haired chap in hong kong of course, but good nonetheless ... he just won't coast in there with the help of my vote ... and I think he'll be a one hit wonder too ... -
Originally posted by Fatum:
Leaving aside those European of all assorted political colors and persuasions, you are certainly correct that politics in Singapore should rightfully remain the prerogative of Singaporeans.
I am not interested in his views, ... cos it was never about his views, I've got my own thank you very much ..... it's about the man and his actions, call me traditional, call me so very chinese ... but if something screws up in my family, I don't need someone else telling me something needs to be done, even though it may seems that I'm not doing anything ... it's not just my right as part of my family, it is also my prerogative, as far as I'm concerned, that right belongs to me and members of my family and no one else ..... scaling up, it is the same thing for my country .... Singaporeans are the ones who vote here, and Singaporeans shall be the one who judges and decides.
and don't bother talking about "the community of nations" and all that crap either ... the european left yak about getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and leaving other countries to their own devices, respecting other country's sovereignty and all that .... but seems perfectly happy to preach and meddle in other country's internal affairs ... while they are telling the americans and other assorted nations not to meddle in other countrys' affairs, they are doing the same thing themselves .... hypocrisy ?? ... I've meet plenty of those liberal, leftist, pot-smoking, long-haired flower-children during my uni days thank you very much, reading books by finklestein and co and calling themselves intellectuals .... they grow up to wear suits and work for NGOs and the UN, join the democrats or the greenies, but I compartmentalize them with those chaps will believes in aliens and elvis being alive ....
I'm very comfortable about the pace of "opening up" in Singapore personally, 3 million dollar scandals notwithstanding ... the fact alone that we are here yakking in this forum says a lot to me ... what I will not want to see is the opening of the floodgates too fast too soon ... look at the phillipines, look at taiwan ... where politics becomes a circus ... where the best showman wins ? ....
if i ever get the chance to make a choice at the ballot boxes, my vote will still never go to him or his party, I'll just scrape my vote ....
If it is not the man and his views, what else can possibly convince you that the person is of your choice and deserving of you precious vote ?
Yet even as you are disinterested in the man and his views, have you not submit yourself to the views of those whom you are prepared to give your vote to ?
CSJ's actions can only be seen as refusing to play by the bias rules that the Ruling Party insist on all political parties to observe, but allowing themselves the advantage of a headstart during the off-election period.
His purposeful controversial actions can be viewed as being part of his plan to continuously expose and educate Singaporeans to their Political Rights in active Political Participation that have been systematically removed.
His actions can be seen as the exposure to the younger generation that politics is about the issues that affect us on a daily basis, and should be a concern to every Singaporean - who has been purposefully lulled by the Ruling Party that Politics are the holy ground of Politicians only.
Are Singaporeans as uncouth as the Taiwanese, or as volatile as the Filippinos ? Why pick on the worse for comparisons ?
With over forty years of strong Parliamentary History, with three of the worst years of our history in the Malaysian Parliament, even then the Parliamentary process has not seen any fracas on par with the Taiwanese.
The Filippinos have a culture not unlike the Americans, and with a political system that is a duplicate of the US, what else can you expect from a community in love with those who rich and famous ?
Are you suggesting ordinary Singaporeans having the same mentality as the Filippinos or the Taiwanese ?
Surely, you cannot possibly think ourselves on par as them, or fear that we could possibly turn out like the Taiwanese or the Filippinos ?
Even Malaysia, with a political system, ethnicity, culture, social practices, and food that bear the closest resemblance to us, they have not seen their multi-party parliamentary proceedings turn as bad as the Taiwanese; and despite their more liberal political environment, there is nothing that resemble the Filippino political culture.Originally posted by Fatum:
When the habits of that gambler uncle becoms compulsive, would you not have to seek external help ?
hmmmm yeah ... I like that logic .... perhaps the goverment is "ass raping" the people by squeezing them too hard eh ? ...
I'm not talking about "guo fa" I'm talking about "jia fa" .... if an uncle of yours is a chronic gambler ... do you go round the wet market announcing his ways to the world ? ... or do you call a quiet family conference to take things in hand ? .....
perhaps you will announce to the world you have a gambler uncle ... but it'll be the latter option for me ....
still, this nit-picking is pointless .... CSJ in parliament would be an entertaining spectacle, not as good as the long-haired chap in hong kong of course, but good nonetheless ... he just won't coast in there with the help of my vote ... and I think he'll be a one hit wonder too ...
When that gambler uncle becomes abusive and aggressive to get more money from the family to satisfy his gambling habits, will you not have to seek the help from the external community ?
If this Singapore Government continue to terrorise Singaporeans with the legal processes, so as to abuse an entire population into fearful silence, while they continue with their abusive wayward ways - who else can the helpless Singaporeans turn to, so as to change the status quo ? -
At 51%, they may hold absolute majority, but at least they will have to push up their standards because not every Bill will get by without scrutiny. More ideas, more critical policy analysis will only improve things.
We should start thinking ahead, spread the need for change -
and at least vote in 40+ oppositions!
Your lives would be less pressurised and manipulated if that can happen. -
Originally posted by justiceforall:We should start thinking ahead, spread the need for change -
and at least vote in 40+ oppositions!
Your lives would be less pressurised and manipulated if that can happen.