A Danish responds to MM Lee’s “mediocre government” comment
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Even locals are not happy with him, and we think he is trying to make things more difficult for us.Originally posted by Gazelle:cut you bullshit about calling Singapore sillypore. Just because you are a bloody white pri.ck sucker living in bloody white racist pussieland, that doesnt mean you have the right to condemn this country. right MATE!! bloody pussie.
Some time back I was still hearing people say the Singaporean passport is an invaluable asset in the global market. Why don't I hear this nowadays anymore? -
despite what you want to say, Singapore is still one of the most sort after country for foreigners, and weather they decide to become Singaporean, that is not really a big issue for us Singaporeans isnt it? However there is a rising trend of foreigner settling down in singapore, which goes to show that Singapore is not a bad country like some quitters or overseas student try to describe.Originally posted by ^tamago^:Even locals are not happy with him, and we think he is trying to make things more difficult for us.
Some time back I was still hearing people say the Singaporean passport is an invaluable asset in the global market. Why don't I hear this nowadays anymore?
In long run singapore will be better off with more FT because singaporean just doesnt appreaciate being a singaporean anymore, so what difference does it make if we have a FT or not.
If you want to quit, you should quit totally and happily, dont quit with a heavy heart and behave like a fox trying to reach the grapes -
If you run a system of taxing and cost recovering all possible costs against the people resulting in large surpluses being created from redundant taxes, honestly are you still to say honestly to the citizens you are successful in govering the country.Originally posted by Gazelle:despite what you want to say, Singapore is still one of the most sort after country for foreigners, and weather they decide to become Singaporean, that is not really a big issue for us Singaporeans isnt it? However there is a rising trend of foreigner settling down in singapore, which goes to show that Singapore is not a bad country like some quitters or overseas student try to describe.
In long run singapore will be better off with more FT because singaporean just doesnt appreaciate being a singaporean anymore, so what difference does it make if we have a FT or not.
If you want to quit, you should quit totally and happily, dont quit with a heavy heart and behave like a fox trying to reach the grapes
Have our ministers realized that such a system leads to perpetual rising coss of living and losses of economic competitiveness and dropping incomes of middle and lower-income earners.
Are you successful even if foreigners come in large number because orchard road and IR rich people projects are doing well.
If by your easy-way importing of foreigners called talents you are able to replace your own disenchanted migrated citizen talents and by taking in new citizens called talents for better pr or if you take advantage of temporary world recovery to get out of our moribund domestic economy, are you able to conscientiously claim success. -
Guys, I look up on the person who replied to MM Lee's. I couldn't find any information about him leh.
Although I knew what this Gregory Glen said is somewhat quite true, I couldn't find any information about him, so I think I'll have some reservations.... -
Does it change anything? The Scandinavian countries have been very economically agile even considering the fact that they had to make substantial commitments during the Cold War, not least Finland suffered considerably during WWII. Yet countries like Sweden have been able to maintain a dynamic economy that is more advanced than ours.Originally posted by Hogzilla:Guys, I look up on the person who replied to MM Lee's. I couldn't find any information about him leh.
Although I knew what this Gregory Glen said is somewhat quite true, I couldn't find any information about him, so I think I'll have some reservations.... -
From 2002 or so, I have posted many suggestions to Feedback Unit that Singapore ministers must learn how to motivate people to apply their practical talents at every level and study from Finland's and Denmark's practical broad-based education system.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Does it change anything? The Scandinavian countries have been very economically agile even considering the fact that they had to make substantial commitments during the Cold War, not least Finland suffered considerably during WWII. Yet countries like Sweden have been able to maintain a dynamic economy that is more advanced than ours.
Nothing was heard of my suggestions but subsequently, ex-minister Dr. Tony Tan went to Finland for a study tour. What happened to his study we do not know.
Probably Dr. Tony Tan found it too difficult to convince MM Lee to change the autocratic system to one involving all citizens in promoting broad-based knowledge application economy.
One man can sit on one or two tight-fisted policies which no longer work resulting in all the citizens in missing out greater opportunities and suffering from ever-rising high costs of living and lack of education and economic restructuing. -
The idea of a broad based education system doesn't gel well with MM Lee's elitist education system and obviously the idea that citizens are given training to serve the economy rather than trained to think. For some obscene reason, the education has simply been overloaded more with project work that makes kids work for hours a day instead of a good sleep. Not least the education isn't an inclusive system but rather runs people down when someone is too slow to catch up or something.Originally posted by robertteh:From 2002 or so, I have posted many suggestions to Feedback Unit that Singapore ministers must learn how to motivate people to apply their practical talents at every level and study from Finland's and Denmark's practical broad-based education system.
Nothing was heard of my suggestions but subsequently, ex-minister Dr. Tony Tan went to Finland for a study tour. What happened to his study we do not know.
Probably Dr. Tony Tan found it too difficult to convince MM Lee to change the autocratic system to one involving all citizens in promoting broad-based knowledge application economy.
One man can sit on one or two tight-fisted policies which no longer work resulting in all the citizens in missing out greater opportunities and suffering from ever-rising high costs of living and lack of education and economic restructuing. -
This talk of the Singapore Government Leaders being deserving to the highest salary - paid to any Government in the World - simply for its ability to lead a tiny red dot to a First World status in the face of Global Compeititon, is simply self-congratulatory and self-aggrandizing so as to justify and legitimize their raiding of the Singapore Reserves.
The only Singaporeans living in First World conditions are the Government Leaders with their Million Dollar wages, upgraded homes bought with soft loans, and 24 hour security paid for by Tax-paying Singaporeans.
For all the poorly paid Scandinavian Government leaders, it is surprising that these Scandinavian Countries are able to nurture Citizens that turn out to be world beating entrepreneurs, workers, inventors, designers, engineers, and talented and artistic creators of world beating products that are much sought after by the World Consumers.
After all the monies spent on campaigns after campaigns to nurture talents, entrepreneurs, designers, artistes and creative Singaporeans, what has this boastful Singapore Government achieved over the last 40 odd years ?
It is so telling that even as Singaporeans struggle to cope with the last economic dislocation, this Government will continue to live in their Million Dollar World and totally dislocate themselves from the realities on the ground - by approving the increases to costs in transport, hospital fees, education fees, utilities, fuel, GST, and now inflating the cost of Government.
Is it so difficult to govern Singapore, when the population has been beaten and cowed by draconian laws that dates back to the Colonial Days ?
While the First Generation Leaders have ALL retired, MM LKY has continued to cling on to political power, and will unashamedly use Third World tactics to kick out any resident - or disenfranchise any Singaporean - who will dare to enter the political arena; as what he has done to CSJ, JBJ, Tang Liang Hong, Francis Seow, Tan Wah Piow, and the social activists in the Catholic Church.
When will the last straw come to break the back of the thirsty Singaporean camel trodding in this political desert ? -
When a leader is too self-centred and obsessed with his own leadership and talent he will carry on saying he is right and others are wrong no matter what happen.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The idea of a broad based education system doesn't gel well with MM Lee's elitist education system and obviously the idea that citizens are given training to serve the economy rather than trained to think. For some obscene reason, the education has simply been overloaded more with project work that makes kids work for hours a day instead of a good sleep. Not least the education isn't an inclusive system but rather runs people down when someone is too slow to catch up or something.
During recessions and Asian Financial crisis there was no similar talk about leadership but only despair with denial like world economic recessions beyond their control or people lacking in skills or retraining.
But once the world recovers and China and India are leading the world economic recovery, it is time to claim credit again and there will again be all the talks about his leadership and talents. -
Do any of you guys share a bleak view about SG's future ?
Whenever i see old people selling tissues and playing music to make ends meet i wonder how will the ever-rising costs of living such as the GST increase help them.
Just saw 4 of these poor old folks each trying their best to earn money at a MRT underpass...
When will the Lees' or the goverment ever wake up ? -
the answer doesn't lie there ...... the writing is already on the wall ..... change is inexorable ......Originally posted by Sagara:Do any of you guys share a bleak view about SG's future ?
Whenever i see old people selling tissues and playing music to make ends meet i wonder how will the ever-rising costs of living such as the GST increase help them.
Just saw 4 of these poor old folks each trying their best to earn money at a MRT underpass...
When will the Lees' or the goverment ever wake up ?
the answer lies in who's going to take over ......... and that .... sadly ... is partly up to the pappies too .... how they handle the opposition will determine the caliber of the people taking over ... if they squeeze too hard ... then we'll get showmen and clowns, and we'll really be done for .....
I do wish that the pappy chaps doesn't make the mistake of thinking of the fear of the worse case scenario would be enough to make people vote for them ... personally, the threshold has already been crossed ... I was once a staunch lightening supporter (not that I ever got a chance to exercise that support at a real ballot box, so very ironically) .... but no longer .... -
This article is not convincing enough
I read with interest Mentor Minister Lee Kuan YewÂ’s remark in SingaporeÂ’s Parliament that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers.
From this statement, we can see that MM Lee is saying that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers. He is not saying that they have mediocre government. He is saying that even with mediocre government, they are able to survive. But not Singapore.
So this shows that the Danish writer is already out of point in his argument. What he should point out is that Danish cannot survive with mediocre government. Perhaps he can give some examples on this point. Then he can go and counter MM Lee that even with mediocre salary, they were able to attract top talents that could ensure the survival of their nations. This would make MM Lee's argument invalid.
What the Danish writer had achieved here is only to show how good their country is compared to Singapore. -
You forgot that MM Lee followed up that comment with another: "Their government have never produced the sort of transformation we have." And that is a cunning way of putting them down.
Of course, those comments were B.S. Suomi was in shambles after WW2 and there was a civil war as well after that.Originally posted by matleep:This article is not convincing enough
I read with interest Mentor Minister Lee Kuan YewÂ’s remark in SingaporeÂ’s Parliament that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers.
From this statement, we can see that MM Lee is saying that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers. He is not saying that they have mediocre government. He is saying that even with mediocre government, they are able to survive. But not Singapore.
So this shows that the Danish writer is already out of point in his argument. What he should point out is that Danish cannot survive with mediocre government. Perhaps he can give some examples on this point. Then he can go and counter MM Lee that even with mediocre salary, they were able to attract top talents that could ensure the survival of their nations. This would make MM Lee's argument invalid.
What the Danish writer had achieved here is only to show how good their country is compared to Singapore. -
What the Danish writer had achieved here is only to show how good their country is compared to Singapore.
Actually I am kind of worried leh, why indeed are the Danish or Finns better then us?
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yeah, funny that u r comfortable with pple coming all over to pillage, rape and take what they can b4 they head back? i know it is an uncouth way of putting it, but dun u think sinkapore `opens' itself, or should i say `herself' too willingly in accepting this FTs?Originally posted by Gazelle:despite what you want to say, Singapore is still one of the most sort after country for foreigners, and weather they decide to become Singaporean, that is not really a big issue for us Singaporeans isnt it? However there is a rising trend of foreigner settling down in singapore, which goes to show that Singapore is not a bad country like some quitters or overseas student try to describe.
In long run singapore will be better off with more FT because singaporean just doesnt appreaciate being a singaporean anymore, so what difference does it make if we have a FT or not.
If you want to quit, you should quit totally and happily, dont quit with a heavy heart and behave like a fox trying to reach the grapes
u think about it, sinkapore wants to be all things to all mankind. so the broadest talent can come and `help' sinkapore prosper. how realistic is that? hub this, hub that, we got this we got that...i recently attended a social enterprise talk organized by nus biz club and the mp penny low mentioned that dreaded words that made me walk out halfway thru' the seminar....that sinkapore can be the hub for social entreprenuership for the region as we have the ppl resources and talents that will mk sinkapore as THE hub. what the fcuk? i think u need pple in the right mindset first to embark on such thing b4 u talk abt putting the infrastucture and resources to it. talk about putting the cart b4 the horse.
MM Lee, nor you can nvr win a subjective argment like the one he raised. i think he is `smart' enuf to put it forward becos one can adequately isolate the points for a pin point rebuttal. bangladesh has a nobel prize winner, is the country better than singapore? not necessarily so, but no one will view bangladesh any worse. In fact, i think the folks who are humbly quiet about their achievements are the ones who deserves the loudest applause. take the macarthur's foundation fellowship winners, most of them are humble geniuses who dun go about braggin' abt what they have achieve.
MM Lee, i think overstep the line. he may have done singapore well over the last 30-40 years, and definitely still yield considerable nfluence in the way singapore is run, but his arrogance and mindless rapping about the other countries is uncalled for, and showed little class. i am sure he is aware that the country exist as a `journey', not a `destination'. the sinkapore story is not finish yet, but surely he is not making it any easier for future sinkaporean leaders to follow his snooty behaviour and ruin the good work he has done. and certainly we hope future sinkapore leader will learn to eat humble pies b4 shooting off their mouth and loud hailed abt what a great nation she is. sinkapore is great only if others say so.... -
I dont see that way, i see it as, we used to be slave working for the white boys under the british rule and now they are working for us.Originally posted by weiqimun:yeah, funny that u r comfortable with pple coming all over to pillage, rape and take what they can b4 they head back? i know it is an uncouth way of putting it, but dun u think sinkapore `opens' itself, or should i say `herself' too willingly in accepting this FTs?
I dont thing opening up is as bad as sucking up. -
The fact of that matter is, like it or not, the minister’s are going to get their pay rise no matter how much we debate it. I am against this pay rise myself, but as a pragmatist I recognize that with our current political climate, things will be the way they are no matter how much we debate or protest this amendment. That is not to say debate isn’t healthy, in fact, the debates they have gone on and the reactions they have triggered from the ministers and those in authority if brought about a more conscious awareness upon the state of things. So I say, cautiously, let’s move on, but as good citizens lets be mindful of the pledges and promises that have been used to justify these pay rise. I’m certain that even individuals like Gazelle would agree with the simple economic notion of – you pay for what you get.
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Why this elitist attitude? Can't any citizen of Denmark reply and comment about this issue? It was a comment posted to one of the blogs that featured the comment by LKY. It wasn't an official reply to LKY like a press release by the Danish government.Originally posted by Hogzilla:Guys, I look up on the person who replied to MM Lee's. I couldn't find any information about him leh.
Although I knew what this Gregory Glen said is somewhat quite true, I couldn't find any information about him, so I think I'll have some reservations....
Frankly, if I were Danish, I'd have shot a very angry letter to LKY's press office. -
Originally posted by matleep:
You might like to know that mediocre govts in such countries are more likely to collapse and be replaced by another in their countries very quickly.
[b]This article is not convincing enough
I read with interest Mentor Minister Lee Kuan YewÂ’s remark in SingaporeÂ’s Parliament that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers.
From this statement, we can see that MM Lee is saying that Denmark, Finland and Switzerland can afford mediocrity in the remuneration of their ministers. He is not saying that they have mediocre government. He is saying that even with mediocre government, they are able to survive. But not Singapore.
So this shows that the Danish writer is already out of point in his argument. What he should point out is that Danish cannot survive with mediocre government. Perhaps he can give some examples on this point. Then he can go and counter MM Lee that even with mediocre salary, they were able to attract top talents that could ensure the survival of their nations. This would make MM Lee's argument invalid.
What the Danish writer had achieved here is only to show how good their country is compared to Singapore. [/b]
Singapore, on the other hand..... -
He is saying that his countryÂ’s govt is not mediocre as what our MM lee has implied, and he backed up his comments with some facts.Originally posted by Hogzilla:Guys, I look up on the person who replied to MM Lee's. I couldn't find any information about him leh.
Although I knew what this Gregory Glen said is somewhat quite true, I couldn't find any information about him, so I think I'll have some reservations....
Nevermind his background. HeÂ’s a citizen speaking up in defence of his country after reading our MMÂ’s remarks.
Despite the govt officials having low salaries, his country managed to progress with low corruption level and because of high level of trust between citizens and govt.
WhatÂ’s more, they are welfare states with high taxation on citizensÂ’ income.
ItÂ’s all summed up in his last paragraph.
If you know what Gregory Glen has said is quite true, then should not have reservation. -
I've always thought that the Lee family is the pillar of Singapore. No kidding... you guys might have issues with them but you have to admit that they are doing a pretty decent job.
Unfortunately, MM Lee now... dunno what. Maybe it's age or maybe as some of you said, too arrogant and too obsessed. The Lee family's tight-fisted rule is obviously slowly crumbling but that's not too surprising. I've never expected the family to be politicians for three running generations.
Once the Lee family is gone, things will go worse because we all know who's going to be our future leaders --- the elites.
Do the elites care for us? Are they in touch with reality, and with the middle and lower class citizens? I doubt so.
So yes, it's going to be worse for us in years to come. -
You know, that's how monarchies crumble and die..... which people have inadvertently supported and allowed to prosper.Originally posted by Slipshade:I've always thought that the Lee family is the pillar of Singapore. No kidding... you guys might have issues with them but you have to admit that they are doing a pretty decent job.
Unfortunately, MM Lee now... dunno what. Maybe it's age or maybe as some of you said, too arrogant and too obsessed. The Lee family's tight-fisted rule is obviously slowly crumbling but that's not too surprising. I've never expected the family to be politicians for three running generations.
Once the Lee family is gone, things will go worse because we all know who's going to be our future leaders --- the elites.
Does the elites care for us? Are they in touch with reality, and with the middle and lower class citizens? I doubt so.
So yes, it's going to be worse for us in years to come. -
The thing is that many Singaporeans like to judge a person's credibility by his status, education and work that he or she does.Originally posted by googoomuck:He is saying that his countryÂ’s govt is not mediocre as what our MM lee has implied, and he backed up his comments with some facts.
Nevermind his background. HeÂ’s a citizen speaking up in defence of his country after reading our MMÂ’s remarks.
Despite the govt officials having low salaries, his country managed to progress with low corruption level and because of high level of trust between citizens and govt.
WhatÂ’s more, they are welfare states with high taxation on citizensÂ’ income.
ItÂ’s all summed up in his last paragraph.
If you know what Gregory Glen has said is quite true, then should not have reservation. -
Well when pple are in a high position for too long , they become too egoistic assuming they are always right and soon lost touch with reality obsessed with their own ideas . Maybe they are most of the time very good but everyone makes mistakes , most important is to admit it and try not to do it agn . But now what i see is trying to cover up any mistakes they done and try to justify it making it seems like they are doing the right things and even carry on doing it . Well nevermind there are retributions in this world and whatever they do will eventually come back to them some day , time will tell .
Maybe after few hundred years or whatever there may be a guy begging in the streets for money or food due to previous deeds . -
well, the way I see it .... if some european parliamentarians want to comment about Singaporean politics, ..... then reciprocally, they should shut up and lun when some Singaporean politician comment about their goverment, right ? ....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Why this elitist attitude? Can't any citizen of Denmark reply and comment about this issue? It was a comment posted to one of the blogs that featured the comment by LKY. It wasn't an official reply to LKY like a press release by the Danish government.
Frankly, if I were Danish, I'd have shot a very angry letter to LKY's press office.
or is there some hypocrisy here ? ....