Anyone please do share your view why we still employ Guka...
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Justice and power must be brought together, so that whatever is just may be powerful, and whatever is powerful may be just. -Blaise PascalOriginally posted by gypsyrose:The Gurkha soldiers are important to us. They are valuable eye candy. Have you seen them jogging near their camps. Oh makes me go into a frenzy! Beautiful pack bodies with a tight a** to boot. Really makes my day.
Gurkha soldiers are just like kitchen knifes. They can help you cut vegetable and they can harm you as well. -
The steadfast loyalty to the paymaster is a Gurkha tradition. Who is their paymaster in Singapore? We, the citizens of Singapore.
Deploying Singapore gurkha contingent to quell riots and civil disobediance in Singapore is like killing chickens with butcherÂ’s knives meant for cattle.
Singaporeans are so gentle and timid like lambs, do we need gurkhas at all?
When the gurkhas raise their sticks or batons, weÂ’ll start running off in all directions, screaming NTUC, NTUC (Not To Use Canes).
The gurkhas will complain : no challenge at all. DonÂ’t even have the chance to pull out their kukris.
Jokes aside, their bravery and close combat fighting skills are no longer relevant in todayÂ’s battles because thereÂ’s an effective defence against the brave gurkhas - to keep out of their range with sophisticated weapons.
Against the terrorists, itÂ’s also a lose situation if the terrorists are suicidal, strapped with explosives.
I respect the Gurkhas. Their outstanding work ethic and fitness are still valuable attributes. Education is the way to a better future.
Study the Dutch policing method - it is community-based, with an emphasis on discretion and improving social harmony, rather than the rigid enforcement of laws. -
With so many comments made regarding the reason of hiring them, how many of you know what operations have they done for Singapore? The Ghurkas aren't around for no particular reason. Perhaps we shouldn't be too skeptical over what the government in hiring the Ghurkas, afterall, they're doing performing well in areas even some commandos in Singapore aren't capable of doing.
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Because they fight very well?
And ns men can't fight for nuts. -
2.It will be damn easy in riots for rumors flying around ,Originally posted by Arapahoe:First of all it is the government that hire Ghulkas not the PAP. Pls dstinct the different between political entity vs government entity.
When and where is useful. Encounter Race Riot and conflicts that could potentially trigger race or reglion attack.
It is deploy against islamic terrorist threat so that there is no majority rule where all the chinese ethnic soldier start profiling malay counterpart.
Look at the bright side, at least your ICT still remain at 2 weeks or else you will be deploy to guard against installation up to 40 days a year!!!!
So please think twice before complaining about Ghulkas is costing Singaporean tons of money, talk is cheap just imagine you stand right after the woodland check point with your M16 up to 40 days a year. Cheers!!!!
especially in internet era,like:
Chinese police shot Malay or Indian
or vice versa...
3.Who will believe that Gurkha will kill or hurt any innocent
just for his skin colors?
I remember LKY mentioned this . -
If you ask me...they exist for a reason. But frankly, if we had the choice, I did say we do away with them. For simply because they are so loyal that they are deluded and may end up following commands because they're mercenaries and are obliged to do so, resulting in doing things which are wrong. Look at those PMCs operating in Iraq, Afghanistan now...they operate under a different set of rules as the rest of the troops. Interrogation with abuse etc...soldiers will face court-martial for doing those things even under the command of a superior officer. But PMCs...they are given a free reign to a wider degree, and can come and go as they wish. To me the Ghrukhas are more or less like the PMCs...as such, they may not exercise the better judgment under the same circumstances as a soldier or police officer.
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I'm not sure if you're another living testament to the horrendous failing of this regime's indoctrination or you're simply an idiot by nature.Originally posted by Arapahoe:Walesa is that what they thought you in S. to quote, i would prefer your position.
here is my take.
Singapore is still a nation building mode thru "time". If you are still building something thru "time" you cannot tear it down before it is mature. Right now you are saying this is not what we want its not good enough. Than I say since there is a system of vote than all you can do is vote it down thru the system donÂ’t tear it down and build a new system. Because you have gone thru 40 years, it may not be perfect it is doing something better than the rest in the region. Re-invent within the system not tear it down and start from scratch.
No gov is perfect all has its biased in history, especially early history. And I discourage you to compare current US policy because Singapore history do not have the depth nor being tested to be a nation. (we haven't stand up as an entity against foreign )
Our leadership handover is still at its infant stage of child holding. so stop bring democracy into Singapore because you ain't going to find it.
If you haven't the faintest idea what you're quoting and address the point you're quoting, don't quote. If you're going to quote, address the point you've quoted and not some tall tales and short stories which you can't coherently defend (and amazingly, go on to churn out nonsense totally irrelevant to what you've quoted) when challenged. In short, view things in the right context.
On to your tall tales and short stories (at least, in my view, they're). While every country takes time to mature, it's criminal and absolutely naive to suggest every country needs time to mature by engaging in a period of "maturing" that requires the "1st generation leaders" to be granted the respect and awe above the common man. It's not rocket science to suggest there're plenty of countries adopting the rule of law (instead of the rule of man) that have not only survived, but thrived without having need to live in fear of tyrants. The US didn't need to do that 200 years ago. Slovenia didn't need to resort to that when they gained independence over a decade ago either.
You can only vote out a government through democratic means where democracy is practised and elections are conducted in a manner that is free and fair. To suggest you could do that in Singapore is no more realistic than suggesting Mugabe could be ousted through the polls in Zimbabwe or Castro in Cuba for that matter. 40 years or 400 years, that isn't going to change so long as you have tyrants in power, so don't use that as an excuse. There're tonnes of examples on this planet that have shown democracy can thrive and is independent of a nation's history. Hence, your suggestion makes no more sense than a toddler's.
I'm sure your daily dosage of propaganda has served you well - Singapore must be so unique a regime everything is exclusive and there's absolutely no parallel with every other society on this planet. Every nation has a biased history? Show me an account where George Washington or Thomas Jefferson took someone to task for criticising him while he was still alive.
In essence, you've just answered your own stupidity succinctly with your final two sentences. You're never going to find democracy in Singapore simply because this is a regime run by despots purporting to be democrats. And to think you have the wisdom of suggesting this regime could be ousted at the polls... -
You've got to try looking at it from the perspective of someone who's so well-indundated with fascist propaganda that he believes just about everything from their perspective. You could be forgiven for buying his idea that "social demographics" in Singapore are so exclusively volatile that racial/ethnic tensions in Singapore are even more dire than that of the former Yugoslavia's - afterall, that's what he's been exposed to...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Look, quit avoiding facts. It is pretty much obvious in the SAF that there is some unofficial policy against the minority races, particularly evidenced by the lack of minorities in manpower depts, and even if there were, they will be given less sensitive duties. You seem to fail to see that Gurkhas' status is practically that of a private army that is wholely subservient to the Govt who writes its pay check. Essentially the Govt is creating a state within the state, not trusting its own citizens, but regard them as possible suspects and potential coup supporters.
The Govt has shown from time to time to be extremely paranoid, even going as far as accusing some 20 or so activists as Marxists and there after exiling them from the country. What 20 or so activists could do in rousing up the people is quite simply beyond my imagination, more so when they were social workers. Moreover, the Govt has always regarded its citizens with suspicion, and going so far as to discriminate its own citizens in its own army.
In fact, I don't even know what you are trying to support here, beyond some mindless rambling possibly because of you evidently bad English. -
There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice. -Charles de MontesquieuOriginally posted by walesa:You're never going to find democracy in Singapore simply because this is a regime run by despots purporting to be democrats. And to think you have the wisdom of suggesting this regime could be ousted at the polls... -
Now not much gurkhas liao ...More nepalis ...The sg govt found cheaper alternatives liao...
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that is because you have always stay in the luxury of a safe enviironment.Originally posted by walesa:You've got to try looking at it from the perspective of someone who's so well-indundated with fascist propaganda that he believes just about everything from their perspective. You could be forgiven for buying his idea that "social demographics" in Singapore are so exclusively volatile that racial/ethnic tensions in Singapore are even more dire than that of the former Yugoslavia's - afterall, that's what he's been exposed to... -
Well, I'll address the first post.
Gurkhas are not only employed in Singapore, they are also used in UK under the Army, India, Brunei as a detachement to protect the Royal family, Nepal those Gurkhas that are rejected by the UK army and Singapore under the Police.
In Singapore, we employ them under the Police so as to put them under the law enforcement arm. We could not employ a whole battalion of Gurkha as this would make our neighbours cry out. And did u know that the Gurkhas in the Plice are actually know as a Paramilitary force? They must take orders from their superiors and any defiance will be met with force. -
Hihi all,
I am Meat Pao.
For me, I thought Gurkha is a historical and special unit, and thats why it is retained. It is like the red palace guards in Britain, or some units which ride horses.
I believe Gurkhas are retained because they are special, unique, and also because they are not bad, quite high quality. So......the government just continue.
To say that Gurkhas are like a private army.....or PAP army......or politician's army....or prevent coup.....or because goverment dont trust Singaporeans.....I think those are maybe abit too far fetched. How many of them are here in Singapore anyway? Let's say they are really super good, but how good, can they defeat all Singapore soldiers? Do they have lotsa tanks and so on? More powerful than the entire regular Singapore Military? So dont think so far fetched.....I believe its just because of historical and symbolic reason.
Meat Pao. -
That's as valid an assumption to make as suggesting idiots like you are born out of wedlock...Originally posted by Arapahoe:that is because you have always stay in the luxury of a safe enviironment. -
Was Gurkhas being used to arrest the 20 person whom the gov acuse of being marxist? Gov paraniod and usages of ISA - Yes. You bring element of power and its is authority and usage. On paper the power seen available. If i follow your thoughts You are implying that gov will use Gurkhas against citizen army. Just continue to work down the thought it will lead to anarchy. Imagine News headline 500 cilivian kill by Gurkhas. The SAF is make up of civilian armies. how is the CO, general going to command the soldier not to take up arms against Gurkhas? The NS men tell the CO pls shoot my family?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Look, quit avoiding facts. It is pretty much obvious in the SAF that there is some unofficial policy against the minority races, particularly evidenced by the lack of minorities in manpower depts, and even if there were, they will be given less sensitive duties. You seem to fail to see that Gurkhas' status is practically that of a private army that is wholely subservient to the Govt who writes its pay check. Essentially the Govt is creating a state within the state, not trusting its own citizens, but regard them as possible suspects and potential coup supporters.
The Govt has shown from time to time to be extremely paranoid, even going as far as accusing some 20 or so activists as Marxists and there after exiling them from the country. What 20 or so activists could do in rousing up the people is quite simply beyond my imagination, more so when they were social workers. Moreover, the Govt has always regarded its citizens with suspicion, and going so far as to discriminate its own citizens in its own army.
In fact, I don't even know what you are trying to support here, beyond some mindless rambling possibly because of you evidently bad English.
what is the political objectives of such act? -
I really really dun think this will happen here. Not Now. Maybe in the future.Maybe when SM Lee and PM Lee and Mr Goh are dead for years, the Thailand thing will happen.Originally posted by Joshua1975:it so true.
just think if what happened in Thailand happen here in SG?
just one CO lead one BN and take over parliament = fire fight with another BN or SPF?
i dun think so. ever wonder why we change CDF and COA so often?
I think those who serve NS/regulars will know, Imagine Ur CO say to u "hey let take over parliament and kick Lee family out of the government and rule singapore."
NsF/regulars: SIAO AH!!! NTH BETTER TO DO!!! EARN MONEY BETTER!!!! -
We're talking about the potential of such an event. Not now for sure, but decades down the road, no one can predict right.Originally posted by Arapahoe:Was Gurkhas being used to arrest the 20 person whom the gov acuse of being marxist? Gov paraniod and usages of ISA - Yes. You bring element of power and its is authority and usage. On paper the power seen available. If i follow your thoughts You are implying that gov will use Gurkhas against citizen army. Just continue to work down the thought it will lead to anarchy. Imagine News headline 500 cilivian kill by Gurkhas. The SAF is make up of civilian armies. how is the CO, general going to command the soldier not to take up arms against Gurkhas? The NS men tell the CO pls shoot my family?
what is the political objectives of such act?
It's an intellectual debate at best, but I feel that many have stepped into paranoia. -
names calling is the best you can do for every forum?Originally posted by walesa:That's as valid an assumption to make as suggesting idiots like you are born out of wedlock... -
When you are dealing with a paranoid Govt, naturally, the citizens are paranoid themselves.Originally posted by LazerLordz:We're talking about the potential of such an event. Not now for sure, but decades down the road, no one can predict right.
It's an intellectual debate at best, but I feel that many have stepped into paranoia.
Already some people fear that they will be marked for voting for the opposition during the election. -
Does it quite make a difference between the tool used to perform the act, and is the intent, coupled with the general policy preferences of the said Govt more important than some quibbling of details?Originally posted by Arapahoe:Was Gurkhas being used to arrest the 20 person whom the gov acuse of being marxist? Gov paraniod and usages of ISA - Yes. You bring element of power and its is authority and usage. On paper the power seen available. If i follow your thoughts You are implying that gov will use Gurkhas against citizen army. Just continue to work down the thought it will lead to anarchy. Imagine News headline 500 cilivian kill by Gurkhas. The SAF is make up of civilian armies. how is the CO, general going to command the soldier not to take up arms against Gurkhas? The NS men tell the CO pls shoot my family?
what is the political objectives of such act?
Would you please also be more coherent? I don't even know what you are trying to say in the last few lines. And quit stuffing your head into the ground when faced with facts.
And yes, it is very possible that this country can be wrecked by anarchy and that soldiers could turn on soldiers. It is called a "civil war". And regardless what happens, it will be every bit bloody as it can get. And if we do have a Bolshevik style revolution, you can be certain it is akin to a general uprising where the soldiers join the citizens against the Govt. Would you like to start imagining the Gurkhas sent against to defend the Govt while its ministers take flight? -
Everything also PAP... you guys really wanna make me laugh till i pee in my pants.... Employing Gurkhas is also PAP's fault?
Gurkhas are professional soldiers... They are highly trained and they take their job as their profession and their pride...
Whereas for most Singaporean defence personnel, be it the police, army etc, they take their job as their career, as a source of income... See the difference?
There are many things that the Gurkhas are willing to do that Singaporeans arent willing to... I know that we have capable people too in this field but we lack the willingness and dedication unlike the Gurkhas...
When I was in army last time, there was one section in the company who started a bush fire accidentally and all of them was going "Fire fire fire"... and the rest of the company watched upon in awe... At that time, there was a group of Gurkhas doing training in tht area too... They ran over and stopped the fire... See the difference between our men and theirs? We know what is going on... we shout but we dont want to do anything, either becos we feel it's dangerous or we seriously do not know how to react....
One last point... I still dont understand how the employment of Gurkhas can be linked to the PAP and the TS even mentioned Lee... Oh give it a break man... Naivety and stupidity at its peak! -
foreign talents!!!!!
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Its gurkhas and not "gukas" FYI.
Gurkhas have been known to serve fearless and loyally to their affliated batalliaon/army/country/
proof: WWII, Falkland Islands, Battle of Mesopotamia (defeat of himller in egypt etc), gurkhas led the charge.
singapore army too comfy, havent seen the real world..cannot survive in jungles..
hence gurkhas do the best job -
Please lah don't you think the Singapore NSF during peace time is the MOST protected army in the world!? You got see our constrict soldier go and die one meh? During the other time in Tekong incident where the 3 armed robber remember? Its the grukka and police that managed to capture them not the Commandos or guards leh. Our soldier all wear the armour for 7.56 round wear until so heavy and hot cannot walk too far. Our lives are precious, only used when in war only.
Always its the ADF or Grukka that sacrifice for the rest of us. Man. You think there is not role for them!? I think for another bank robbery escaping to sg you go and catch lah.
NSF do sh it only. -
ADF chaps are admirable, not to mention more mentally aware and agile than most NSF officers I've come across.