Let's start or identify a "People self-help Fund" ?
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It will be our objective in this People's Self-Help Fund to strive towards self-help and self-reliance among the people instead of not knowing what to do in this uncertain world.Originally posted by zaxis:can we start with 6 out of 13?
that mean 5 more volunteer's
If that is our objective we must then have a good organization and good support by all volunteers forming such an organization. It is a chance for those who are sincerely interested in contributing something towards self-help or gotong royong to take one step forward to serve the community in a meaningful way than merely contributing monies.
By adding values to our fellow citizens' lives that will become our way of playing a role.
We are not interested in politics or politicking and all these will be spelt out , and adopted and followed and practised in deed and spirit by all our volunteers of 15 forming the council.
So for such a reason I will recommend having a good start with more members and 15 is a mere guidance.
I will leave it to the committee or council to decide based on such challenge of building a truly People's Self-Help Fund. -
any further update?
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We need a certain number in order to be effective and that number has not been reached. I think we need personal marketing. Please carry on trying as it will be to the credit of people if such a fund is ever set up and working.
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you shd let ppl know who you are. how can you be soliciting for public funds by hidding your identity in cyberspace .Originally posted by robertteh:We need a certain number in order to be effective and that number has not been reached. I think we need personal marketing. Please carry on trying as it will be to the credit of people if such a fund is ever set up and working. -
Not to worry, there will be no use of people's fund for estate lift upgrading for loyal members only. It will be purely people's self-help fund and no self-interest agenda.Originally posted by crazy monkey:you shd let ppl know who you are. how can you be soliciting for public funds by hidding your identity in cyberspace.
You should know who I am so beware as he is the one who judge sinners at the heavenly gate and ask "are you the kuan yin nemesis people are complaining as having no mercy"
So please do not monkey around any more and try to help people as otherwise you will be sure to be judged by I am. -
you dun walk the talk do you ? so much for the call for transparency.Originally posted by robertteh:Not to worry, there will be no use of people's fund for estate lift upgrading for loyal members only. It will be purely people's self-help fund and no self-interest agenda.
You should know who I am so beware as he is the one who judge sinners at the heavenly gate and ask "are you the kuan yin nemesis people are complaining as having no mercy"
So please do not monkey around any more and try to help people as otherwise you will be sure to be judged by I am. -
We the citizens pay ministers the millions in salaries to walk the talk. People like active citizens are not bound to provide solutions. They will just be the judge to fire them for incompetence. So please do not try to tell citizens it is their duty to do this or that. Citizens want good customer service and expect leaders and ministers to go to the extra mile to do so.Originally posted by crazy monkey:you dun walk the talk do you ? so much for the call for transparency. -
This is the first time I have heard of this.... award winning world class press indeed! Anything good to do with dishonorable people... blow up... anything bad make a few mentions...Originally posted by Trump_Card:Thats what steve chia inititated during his nus days...He was praise by then- pm gtc ...I was jus wondering who would contribute to the fund...I will support if its created...
Anything good to do with dissidents, make a few mention, if at all and anything bad (nude pics) blow up
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you way you beat around the bush and hide your identity really make you lose your credibility. if you want to raise funds from the public then you should let ppl know who you are.Originally posted by robertteh:We the citizens pay ministers the millions in salaries to walk the talk. People like active citizens are not bound to provide solutions. They will just be the judge to fire them for incompetence. So please do not try to tell citizens it is their duty to do this or that. Citizens want good customer service and expect leaders and ministers to go to the extra mile to do so. -
You are beating around the bush and not me. I have posted with my ID but yours is crazy monkey. You have not been willing to take part in a fair exchange with reasoning and you are repeating your unfruitful assumptions that the government is always right even in regard to NKF or ministers' own writing of their own pay cheques.Originally posted by crazy monkey:you way you beat around the bush and hide your identity really make you lose your credibility. if you want to raise funds from the public then you should let ppl know who you are.
One wonder where is all the cyber-countering with this kind of stereotype exchange leading to? -
i never say govt always right never support pap.Originally posted by robertteh:You are beating around the bush and not me. I have posted with my ID but yours is crazy monkey. You have not been willing to take part in a fair exchange with reasoning and you are repeating your unfruitful assumptions that the government is always right even in regard to NKF or ministers' own writing of their own pay cheques.
One wonder where is all the cyber-countering with this kind of stereotype exchange leading to?
i think you are the one making all the assumptions.
you want freedom of speech in speakers corner but ppl starting citicising you become so defensive. is tat double standards ? -
Originally posted by crazy monkey:
I have already answered to your points as stated in my last post.
[b]
i never say govt always right never support pap.
i think you are the one making all the assumptions.
you want freedom of speech in speakers corner but ppl starting citicising you become so defensive. is tat double standards ?
Whether your posts are constructive or biased only serving to postpone or cover up problems for the government with childish retorts is clear for all to see.
If you are merely another citizen surely you will see wrongs of the as posted e.g. NKF, self-interests and lack of accountability in many of its policies.
There is one salient principle behind every caring and effective government, that is people expect the government to deliver and if they do not it has to make changes or answer to the people finally. -
so in your opinion which is the best govt in the world ?Originally posted by robertteh:I have already answered to your points as stated in my last post.
Whether your posts are constructive or biased only serving to postpone or cover up problems for the government with childish retorts is clear for all to see.
If you are merely another citizen surely you will see wrongs of the as posted e.g. NKF, self-interests and lack of accountability in many of its policies.
There is one salient principle behind every caring and effective government, that is people expect the government to deliver and if they do not it has to make changes or answer to the people finally. -
One issue at a time please. If you raised certain issue, I only need to address that issue. If you come out with another question, then it will not lead us anywhere. Can't you understand this simple ettiquette.Originally posted by crazy monkey:so in your opinion which is the best govt in the world ? -
Originally posted by crazy monkey:you dun walk the talk do you ? so much for the call for transparency.
this i discovered sometime ago. -
In criticizing the government or government policies, must critics walk the talk? Who should walk the talk - the paid ministers and civil servants or the critics?Originally posted by sgdiehard: this i discovered sometime ago.
If ministers keep talking about their talents and success, who should prove such boast or blowing of trumpet?
If our government is not so full of boast would it not be more respected by the citizens? -
you not boastful ? you keep boasting about your process management.Originally posted by robertteh:In criticizing the government or government policies, must critics walk the talk? Who should walk the talk - the paid ministers and civil servants or the critics?
If ministers keep talking about their talents and success, who should prove such boast or blowing of trumpet?
If our government is not so full of boast would it not be more respected by the citizens? -
Not boastful as or like the ministers. Where is our Swiss Standard of living and other first-world incomes for majority of citizens? Where is our gracious society and community bonding? Where are our biomedical hub, and has it achieved any breakthroughs?Originally posted by crazy monkey:you not boastful ? you keep boasting about your process management.
A minister must serve with humility and grace treating all citizens including opponents with respect. Even opponents have a role to play in nation building for without them offering views and suggestions which so far have been regarded as whiners and anti-government, the nation will be worse off. -
you are equally boastful as the ministers. they boast with little results, you boast with no results at all.Originally posted by robertteh:Not boastful as or like the ministers. Where is our Swiss Standard of living and other first-world incomes for majority of citizens? Where is our gracious society and community bonding? Where are our biomedical hub, and has it achieved any breakthroughs?
A minister must serve with humility and grace treating all citizens including opponents with respect. Even opponents have a role to play in nation building for without them offering views and suggestions which so far have been regarded as whiners and anti-government, the nation will be worse off.
Ministers' oponents are those in the opposition parties, Chiam, Loh, Sylvia, Jayerathnam.... they meet the people, organise actions, raise their voices on the websites, on papers, magazines..... they walk the talk.
Critics are like newspapers commentators, you see many pro government ones writing for the straits times, surf the net you can find thousands of suggestions and criticisms on all the governments in the world, including Singapore, hardly worth the time reading them. Where in history has any critic succeed in making any changes to society? Talk no action never work. -
It is a fundamental principle of any business entity and commerce that "he who pays the piper calls the tune".Originally posted by sgdiehard:you are equally boastful as the ministers. they boast with little results, you boast with no results at all.
Ministers' oponents are those in the opposition parties, Chiam, Loh, Sylvia, Jayerathnam.... they meet the people, organise actions, raise their voices on the websites, on papers, magazines..... they walk the talk.
Critics are like newspapers commentators, you see many pro government ones writing for the straits times, surf the net you can find thousands of suggestions and criticisms on all the governments in the world, including Singapore, hardly worth the time reading them. Where in history has any critic succeed in making any changes to society? Talk no action never work.
Our ministers are elected, employed and paid by the citizens to govern the country to look after citizens' diverse needs and aspirations. But seriously, have they regarded themselves as people's servants and be subjected to their queries for any lack in performance.
I am not a minister so I do not owe citizens a duty to serve them nor do I need to boast my abilities. I only need to post my views and suggestions objectively without fear or favor. Where government policies have gone wrong or created problems to the people, I will say so.
It would appear that due to self-centredness or certain lack of maturity whenever ministers are criticised by the newspaper critics like mr. brown or oppositions, people mentioned by you as walking the talk on nkf or any failures of duties they would get upset and many a time they would resort to threatening critics with defamation suits etc.
Citizens have to endure this kind of high-handedness and arrogance and are being prevented to raise issues and were being threatened or intimidated by such uncalled for high-handedness or abuse of power.
Let's be honest, how then do you expect these people, newspaper columnists or oppositions or mr. brown whom you cited as people who walk the talk to suit your convenience to give their views or stand for elections given all these threats and hypocrisy.
Go and conduct a national survey and find out how many people are put off by such hypocrisy and double-talks as stated in the foregoing.
PM Lee himself in his inauguration speech in 2004, has actually openly invited citizens to take an active part by giving their views and opinions on government actions and policies and said he would be worried if citizens are having no views for which he said he could be more worried.
Surely you are not going to engage in such hypocrisy or calling the critics whiners and quitters and challenging them with libel suits or telling them to walk the talk when clearly these people are doing what PM Lee has actually invited them to which is also what you are trying to stop.
So please do not confuse people with double talk. You should check with him on his inauguration speech and see for yourself whether it is the PM who has invited them to take an active part in offering views and suggestions on government performance. Whether the government is able to see the contributions of ideas and suggestions of view the criticisms as a cup half empty and half-full, it is a matter of mindset. I think you are the one the government really has to worry about as you will be the one running down citizens' active participation with all your hypocrisy and double talk. -
Mr robertteh, self appointed campion of the poor, protecter to the underclass, expert on process management, judge of the govt .... etc.
Any progress on your self help fund so far ? -
I am not paid 3 million dollars pa to be the minister for community development or minister in charge of estate upgrading. If I am duly appointed as such, I will no doubt make sure that there will be equitable use of public funds for such purpose and not only for residents who voted for PAP.Originally posted by crazy monkey:Mr robertteh, self appointed campion of the poor, protecter to the underclass, expert on process management, judge of the govt .... etc.
Any progress on your self help fund so far ? -
do you get paid when your letters get published in the Straits Times ?Originally posted by robertteh:I am not paid 3 million dollars pa to be the minister for community development or minister in charge of estate upgrading. If I am duly appointed as such, I will no doubt make sure that there will be equitable use of public funds for such purpose and not only for residents who voted for PAP. -
Don't you need to worry that I don't get paid for starting a people's self-help fund. It is also my business if I am writing to Straits Times without payments as I may get a kick out of such letting off of steam or just to get something off my chest especially with so much hypocrisy and false pretences of government ministers who are trying to get all kinds of benefits for themselves while majority of citizens are still suffering from dropping wages and struggling with the rising costs of living to no end.Originally posted by crazy monkey:do you get paid when your letters get published in the Straits Times ?
It is sad that the government does not understand people's problems and continue to play with words and hypocrisy without answering for their mistakes and failures. -
if setting up a self-help fund does not kick-off, can look to the west, and set up people's companies..
... providing basic services and things, and people holds the shares of the companies, no selling or buying of shares. It's called people's power, by mr.brown.