Is singapore education system unrelated to working world?
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the education system seems to be different from working world.
we may study a field but end up learning another new one when we work.
i feel that this is a waste of time to learn so many things and when it comes to work, we are doing another thing.
The working world seems to just need you to have a degree but it need not be relevant to the industry, which i feel that reflects a waste of resource.
please share your views on what are the various problems and come up with better suggestions of how things should be. -
Guess the "problem" of not doing something in the field that u studied is unavoidable. Read some research in my ex-company by some Headhunter company previously. It said that most people will only know which career they truely want after trying 3 different ones, OR generally between age 28-33. However they are making alot of assumptions, which I can;t recall.Originally posted by january:the education system seems to be different from working world.
we may study a field but end up learning another new one when we work.
i feel that this is a waste of time to learn so many things and when it comes to work, we are doing another thing.
The working world seems to just need you to have a degree but it need not be relevant to the industry, which i feel that reflects a waste of resource.
please share your views on what are the various problems and come up with better suggestions of how things should be.
Moreover there is this family commitment issue. Even if you dun like the particular industry u'r in, u may not take action on your part to change it, unless something like retrenchment happens.
Also, the argument on 'comfort zone' Example After 3-4 years in studying say engineering, one might be comfortable to change to business.
Also, the 'qualifications' argument. Certain industry requires qualification that one need to obtain before he can join. It will be difficult for a engineer to go into accounting, and a lawyer to be a doctor.
Bottomline is we ourselves wun know what we wanna do in future. Most are unable to see himself/herself 20-30 years down the road.
Had a friend now 56 who worked all his life for a engineering firm. He was a head trainer and head QC in the company, but was retrenched at 53. He joined Dennis Wee then. Now doing relatively well. Just bought the new camry.
Another friend, studied IT, work in IT firm for a few years, now quite sick of it due to the long hours, smelly collegues (YES! He said his collegues ALWAYS never bath!!). But he can't leave unless he find another similar level paying job cos of his HDB, car and soon coming kid.
However, at the end of the day, it's not really a "problem" like u mentioned in ur 2nd paragraph, on wasting resources. Several companies I know of nowadays are headhunting for people trained in different industry, as they think differently, hence a "fresh" view on things that currently employees may miss out.
A example last year, one of our local bank started a scheme to encourage this. They got a senior teacher and a senior engineer to come into the bank as a AVP position because of different views/thinking patterns, hence potential improvements in processes. -
One question...
we may study a field but end up learning another new one when we work
Will the new one be related to the field you studied or totally unrelated or perhaps partially related?
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The working world is not just restricted to degrees. What qualifications you need will solely depend on your field. Generally, in Singapore, a degree is what you need. If you intend to work overseas, then the answer is no. Particularly if you are in very technical fields such as information technology or engineering. These fields have exams to take, of which they are not easy to pass. On average, one needs at least 75% to pass them. The more specialized the field is, the higher the expectations.
As per usual, nothing in this world is ever absolute. What you learn today, may change tomorrow. Pluto has long been regarded as a planet (granted, it's been disputed, but most textbooks put it as a planet, we shall take it as it is), and now Pluto is no longer a planet.
Since nothing is ever absolute, then it creates problems. I studied this today, I have to study something else tomorrow. But the basic principles still remains. Take for example genetics. No matter how much it changes, no matter what discoveries we make, the four bases will still be ATCG (adenine, thymine, cytosine and guanine). ATCG forms the basis for genes.
The only way is to learn. Not learn to cope, but to relearn. As long as the basics doesn't change (not that they are absolute), the advanced topics will be built on top of these basics. How things shouldn't be important. More importantly, how you want to deal with it.
No point having the government to lay out the ground rules and forcing you, neither does changing the entire education system helps. Learning should come from motivation, not cold hard rules. Our government has implemented 6 years of compulsory education to improve literacy of the population, but that doesn't mean that all of them will bother to learn. Rules will be rules, whatever that goes will depend on the person himself/herself. -
I think that the education system in the sense of primary school and secondary school shouldn't be turned into factories where kids have to master everything that the ministry dictates. I think that the school is a place for one to learn to appreciate things in life, learn how to to learn.
Whereas in polytechnics where students are more specialized, this is where they are equipped with technical know-how about their field of study so that when they graduate, they are ready for the industry. -
That is why it is wrong to concentrate on educating and grooming the few elites and at the end after their getting all the honours and PHDs they come back only to work in jobs unrelated to their training.Originally posted by january:the education system seems to be different from working world.
we may study a field but end up learning another new one when we work.
i feel that this is a waste of time to learn so many things and when it comes to work, we are doing another thing.
The working world seems to just need you to have a degree but it need not be relevant to the industry, which i feel that reflects a waste of resource.
please share your views on what are the various problems and come up with better suggestions of how things should be.
We even have dr. who became financial advisors or manpower ministers and this reflects poor focusing in our education system.
We therefore due to excellence in applying existing knowledge at every level have missed many opportunities to bring about a more competitive country.
As posted to the Feedback Unit since 2002, it is wrong to focus on grooming of elites to take over government alone and neglect broad-based education which will be market oriented as students will learn how to do things in the real world and even start a business.
It is because our ministers are too arrogant that such ideas are not accepted or implemented because they were not mentioned in their own textbooks.
Without mass practical knowledge application and motivating citizens at every level of works to apply what they have learned all the policies and pushing of pen will not help to build a competitive and vibrant society to meet globalization challenges. -
haven't u heard learning is a life long process.
i think you have to consider higher education vs skills sets required for the kind of profession you think you are going to work in. Higher learning cultivate critical thinking, decision consideration process and application thru understanding of the various discpline. Internship is one of the method that may help you to bridge the gap. -
I study eningeering for 4 years and most of the syllabus is not about critical thinking. its simply about whether you have read the lecture notes sufficiently or not. If you have read it enough, the ideas will be understood. If you do not read it enough, no matter how creative you are, you will not be able to answer the question.Originally posted by Arapahoe:haven't u heard learning is a life long process.
i think you have to consider higher education vs skills sets required for the kind of profession you think you are going to work in. Higher learning cultivate critical thinking, decision consideration process and application thru understanding of the various discpline. Internship is one of the method that may help you to bridge the gap.
In projects, there is more creativity involve but not that much as to i will become a creative person. -
Have you ever been to the university or a polytechnic in the first place? Unless you have, you have no bloody right to even comment on this.Originally posted by Arapahoe:haven't u heard learning is a life long process.
i think you have to consider higher education vs skills sets required for the kind of profession you think you are going to work in. Higher learning cultivate critical thinking, decision consideration process and application thru understanding of the various discpline. Internship is one of the method that may help you to bridge the gap.
Engineering is a very specialised profession and jumping between professions is a very hard to thing to do. You must be a dote to have even made such a stupid comment. -
there are specialised fields which you NEED qualifications for...
and there are fields where you do not..
simple as that..
and.. the word is "dolt"
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All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it.Originally posted by the Bear:there are specialised fields which you NEED qualifications for...
and there are fields where you do not..
simple as that..
and.. the word is "dolt"
Say asking an engineer who used to work in an electronics firm which has since packed up and left. You certainly don't expect him to work in a biotech firm which doesn't use much of an electrical engineer's skills do you? -
hmmm.... you sure?
the PM's husband is running a bloody huge "corporation" with an engineering degree.. she sure as heck isn't qualified to run the place
some things, you may be qualified in other fields but you end up in it..
btw, how many police studies grads are in the REMFs of the police force? -
Damn it. Do i have spell it all out to you? Engineers are purported trained to think analytically and solve problems. If they can't think and solve problems then the uni they went to did a bloody bad job at training them as engineers.Originally posted by the Bear:hmmm.... you sure?
the PM's husband is running a bloody huge "corporation" with an engineering degree.. she sure as heck isn't qualified to run the place
some things, you may be qualified in other fields but you end up in it..
btw, how many police studies grads are in the REMFs of the police force?
Now, by your stupid argument, even a poly grad could take the job. Ever wonder why you don't get poly grads in jobs like administration or higher up the civil service etc.? -
do i have to spell it out to you?
not everyone is an engineer!!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Damn it. Do i have spell it all out to you? Engineers are purported trained to think analytically and solve problems. If they can't think and solve problems then the uni they went to did a bloody bad job at it.
Now, by your stupid argument, even a poly grad could take the job. Ever wonder why you don't get poly grads in jobs like administration etc.? -
And what the heck does it supposed to mean? You aren't an engineer aren't you?Originally posted by the Bear:do i have to spell it out to you?
not everyone is an engineer!!
Corporations hire people based on their qualifications and majors and select them if they have the skills required to do the job. It is simple as that.
However, asking someone to change his entire skill set over night is akin to asking him to go back to university and doing an entirely new degree which is absurd beyond imagination. -
Then what you suppose we ought to change it to? Could you propose some alternatives then?
Its one thing to complain and another to suggest alternatives.
Somethings you need a degree. Would you want to live in a building built by an engineer without a degree? Would you like to have your tax done by a non-degree accountant? Would you like to see a doctor that has no degree?
After all what we all choose to do is our choice. If you wanna be an engineer, nobody is forcing you to be a accountant. Its just that we do not know ourselves well enough to make a choice at that point of time.
I don't really get what is meant by "Singapore education system unrelated to working world."
What education system is related to the working world then? -
so... to be a corporate mofo, you have to be "qualified" with paper qualifications??
this is the long and short of the topic...
btw, Bill Gates isn't qualified to do anything since he's dropped out..
his skills are either innate or learnt without formal education...
Richard Branson is dyslexic and left school at 17 too.. he never had the formal education which "qualifies" him to do stuff..
school system is "unrelated to the working world"
some of it is, some of it isn't... and.. if you stop to figure out what i'm saying, engineering grads who are engineers NEED the qualification...
engineering grads who end up in the business world, uhhh.. what was that about?
engineering grads who end up in social work (there are a few)... again, what was that about?
the whole premise is that you don't have to be "qualified" to be in some jobs.. but you sure as hell better be in the specialised ones.. i don't want a rocket scientist taking out my appendix!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:And what the heck does it supposed to mean? You aren't an engineer aren't you?
Corporations hire people based on their qualifications and majors and select them if they have the skills required to do the job. It is simple as that.
However, asking someone to change his entire skill set over night is akin to asking him to go back to university and doing an entirely new degree which is absurd beyond imagination. -
ERTW!
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Are you an ass? Bill Gates was a very talented programmer before dropping out. Starting a software company built on his brillinace was a natural. Heck, there are Stanford UGrads who do that and build startups and are much smarter than you and me and let's not bring them into the equation.Originally posted by the Bear:so... to be a corporate mofo, you have to be "qualified" with paper qualifications??
this is the long and short of the topic...
btw, Bill Gates isn't qualified to do anything since he's dropped out..
his skills are either innate or learnt without formal education...
Richard Branson is dyslexic and left school at 17 too.. he never had the formal education which "qualifies" him to do stuff..
school system is "unrelated to the working world"
some of it is, some of it isn't... and.. if you stop to figure out what i'm saying, engineering grads who are engineers NEED the qualification...
engineering grads who end up in the business world, uhhh.. what was that about?
engineering grads who end up in social work (there are a few)... again, what was that about?
the whole premise is that you don't have to be "qualified" to be in some jobs.. but you sure as hell better be in the specialised ones.. i don't want a rocket scientist taking out my appendix!
Let me drive it into your thick skull again: the qualification of a job means you are taught how to think, analyse and work you way through a job when given in the way your major wants you to think. Corporations hire you based on this. If you aren't happy wiht that, go start your own bloody business as you yourself said. If you still fail to comprehend what I mean, you certainly failed English somewhere along the way.
And who the frak gives a damn about social work which is a bloody thankless job? Any damn fool can take the job, but he better be happy with having nothing more than an allowance that comes with it. -
What qualification does a chef needs?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it.
Say asking an engineer who used to work in an electronics firm which has since packed up and left. You certainly don't expect him to work in a biotech firm which doesn't use much of an electrical engineer's skills do you? -
You have heard of culinary schools and apprenticeships have you?Originally posted by SnowFlag:What qualification does a chef needs?
Perhaps you missed the piece of news where a restaurant hired some fake chef who ended up nearly poisoning customers? -
I think you over generalize as though as you understand every single field in the world. As bear said.. not everyone is an engineer. And the funny thing is you can make such statement sounding like you are always right....Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it.
I think there are fields where you hire based or experiences and projects that you have done, e.g Advertising/ art design/modelling/acting/ IT etc...
Usually a good portfolio beats qualification anytime. The person who hires based on qualification for these fields are simply inexperienced and naive. -
Sometimes it appears that we are making a "choice". For example, Singapore has the lowest percentage of smokers in the world, but the external environment plays a big role. If cigarette prices were low and advertisement for Tobacco are allowed, do you think there would more people making their "choice" to smoke?Originally posted by jianfish9:After all what we all choose to do is our choice.
Similarly, when the govt uses the state media to bombard messages on which industry is good, isnt that a similar form of influence like advertising for tobacco companies? Isnt policies like limiting Singapore's education to Maths and the Sciences (in the past) helping people to make their "choice" as an engineer?
I would believe that we do have some choice e.g. not to smoke or litter, but the environment and govt policies also plays a huge role. -
Singapore = Compromise Central.
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I won't agree with you on this.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it.
Say asking an engineer who used to work in an electronics firm which has since packed up and left. You certainly don't expect him to work in a biotech firm which doesn't use much of an electrical engineer's skills do you?
There are many experts around who have no qualifications, with some even refusing to take any sort of exams to prove their expertise.
In the computer world, as long as you prove your capabilities, qualifications are not needed. I've seen companies hiring such people, and seen people with qualifications doing things that endanger the whole company or putting people's lives in danger. Those people with experience but no qualifications do things the proper way. Then there are those who have qualifications who do things the other way round. Manual says one, they do the other way round and can't get things to work, wasting time troubleshooting and sending them for repairs because an electricity surge killed the devices.
As long as what one studies and what one experiences is partially related, I don't see how they can't jump over to another sector. The biotechnology sector is huge, and is not just limited to biology alone.
As one goes up higher in education, the lines between the different subjects blur. Maths at primary school level is just Maths, but once they move up to polytechnic levels and study engineering or computers, it's no longer Maths, it's about Science, engineering and logic. -
Bill Gates is never talented programmer and will never be.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Are you an ass? Bill Gates was a very talented programmer before dropping out. Starting a software company built on his brillinace was a natural. Heck, there are Stanford UGrads who do that and build startups and are much smarter than you and me and let's not bring them into the equation.
Let me drive it into your thick skull again: the qualification of a job means you are taught how to think, analyse and work you way through a job when given in the way your major wants you to think. Corporations hire you based on this. If you aren't happy wiht that, go start your own bloody business as you yourself said. If you still fail to comprehend what I mean, you certainly failed English somewhere along the way.
And who the frak gives a damn about social work which is a bloody thankless job? Any damn fool can take the job, but he better be happy with having nothing more than an allowance that comes with it.
He was a talented businessman, and most people would generally agree with it.
And I also drive this into the skull of yours: if qualifications means that it taught you how to think, analyze and work your way through a job the way your major wants you to be, you've failed as a human.
Social work is not a thankless job. If you aren't a social worker or have not ever been a volunteer, you better not comment on this issue. Helping people comes from the bottom of your heart, not your head.