Is singapore education system unrelated to working world?
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U see the guy that reply my notes thats how negative thought destroy creativity. Don't let anybody tell you what u should do or should not do.Originally posted by january:I study eningeering for 4 years and most of the syllabus is not about critical thinking. its simply about whether you have read the lecture notes sufficiently or not. If you have read it enough, the ideas will be understood. If you do not read it enough, no matter how creative you are, you will not be able to answer the question.
In projects, there is more creativity involve but not that much as to i will become a creative person.
In work force U r not going to always find the exact problems that you find in academic field. What is critical is to be able to transpose your knowledge to your work.
Academic Project is one area that you pick up some of your interest. Look at others people project see what they do? draw experience from them gain that perspective.
U assume too much right or wrong answer in career move. U still have work experience to pick up. -
It is said that of all the things youÂ’ve learned in school, youÂ’ll discover that only 20% is useful in work.
Today, most peopleÂ’s career decision is based on regconition and payÂ…..and how many engineers want get their hands dirty? They prefer a desk bound job to hands on work.
In the push to get through school, get a job, many people set aside their true passions in life.Then, at some point later in life they find themselves not fulfilled, not satisfied.
Take a personality test on your own to find out your aptitude, to match your true interests, passions, and values to the type of work which is right for you. Then you address the education issue.
But then again, technology advancement is too swift.. With too many changes in a short period of time and you soon lose confidence and become disillusioned with your work. -
bill gates took the idea of browser windows from macintosh and went to patent it seeing that apple was more interested in making money from producing computers rather than software and left their software system unpatented. go read something then talk lehOriginally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Are you an ass? Bill Gates was a very talented programmer before dropping out. Starting a software company built on his brillinace was a natural. Heck, there are Stanford UGrads who do that and build startups and are much smarter than you and me and let's not bring them into the equation.
Let me drive it into your thick skull again: the qualification of a job means you are taught how to think, analyse and work you way through a job when given in the way your major wants you to think. Corporations hire you based on this. If you aren't happy wiht that, go start your own bloody business as you yourself said. If you still fail to comprehend what I mean, you certainly failed English somewhere along the way.
And who the frak gives a damn about social work which is a bloody thankless job? Any damn fool can take the job, but he better be happy with having nothing more than an allowance that comes with it.
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When I meant qualification, I also included the training given to that person on how he is taught to think. The process of getting a qualification in a university includes being taught a skill set that he is meant to apply to any field he is given. A qualification isn't just a piece of paper from a university you know.Originally posted by kilua:I think you over generalize as though as you understand every single field in the world. As bear said.. not everyone is an engineer. And the funny thing is you can make such statement sounding like you are always right....
I think there are fields where you hire based or experiences and projects that you have done, e.g Advertising/ art design/modelling/acting/ IT etc...
Usually a good portfolio beats qualification anytime. The person who hires based on qualification for these fields are simply inexperienced and naive.
Besides, companies look first at qualification then experience, unless you have ridiculously good reputation that precedes you already. Even for managing positions, MBAs look good on the record. Lots of executives, say in the top US companies have MBAs for that sole reason. Job Ads for higher positions always list the minimum and they always include a degree. Experience and what not is just to add icing to the cake.
Besides, just because I used engineers as examples doesn't mean this is limited to engineering. I know of psychology majors who end up doing HR work and marketing since they are trained to know how humans think and look out for trends in human behaviour.
And by the way, a person trained in an acting school on average acts much better than the trash that Hollywood occasionally grabs. And even for advertising jobs, you are likely to get some arts major which specialises in drawing jobs unless you are some genius at art, which is hard to come by. As for modeling, that's a bit of ridiculous comparison isn't it? How many people are born with good looks? -
I assume you also know that he wrote the his own Basic interpreter. Does that diminish his skills in any way? Not least he was involved in the some of the early mac development.Originally posted by vito_corleone:bill gates took the idea of browser windows from macintosh and went to patent it seeing that apple was more interested in making money from producing computers rather than software and left their software system unpatented. go read something then talk leh -
While you could technically make a case that knowledge could be acquired on one's own initiative, there's no denying that qualifications for professional degrees - medicine, law, dentistry, engineering and accountancy are some examples of professional degrees - are still required globally should one wish to practise in that field.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it.
Say asking an engineer who used to work in an electronics firm which has since packed up and left. You certainly don't expect him to work in a biotech firm which doesn't use much of an electrical engineer's skills do you?
In that sense, interest and circumstances permitting, such professional degrees would still merit more relevance to its particular industry than say a literature degree for someone who wishes to teach literature in school. -
Half the question centres around yourself if you've actually thought about it. What you choose to study at college and what you ultimately decide to do for a living are two seperate entities altogether - while you could choose to study something that prepares you for a career in that field, you're not obliged to do so. Herein lies the paradox : what happens if you choose to pursue a career in a field unrelated to your area of specialisation?Originally posted by january:the education system seems to be different from working world.
we may study a field but end up learning another new one when we work.
i feel that this is a waste of time to learn so many things and when it comes to work, we are doing another thing.
The working world seems to just need you to have a degree but it need not be relevant to the industry, which i feel that reflects a waste of resource.
please share your views on what are the various problems and come up with better suggestions of how things should be.
Truth be told, degrees in the relevant discipline really aren't that sought after if you were to consider the practices of many of the developed nations ( I must stress this approach does not extend to include industries requiring professional certification like law, medicine and engineering ). One of the reasons why the finance industry proves so appealing ( besides the financial lure ) to all and sundry stems from the fact that most of the world's top financial institutions would actually - and quite readily - hire graduates from across a vast array of disciplines for numerous positions.
In truth, I think that has served them pretty well considering what such firms need are human beings equipped with the skills to analyse, think and make rational decisions ( known to many in such industries as "life skills" ), rather than a machine with a photographic memory capable of regurgitating knowledge/facts. In that sense, successful applicants for such jobs are deemed - at least, in the eyes of the employer - to have acquired sufficient skills to make these decisions in school ( while one may further contend that it isn't realistic to restrict such employment opportunities to college graduates, they unfortunately have to use some sort of benchmark to determine if you've been schooled sufficiently and competently to have acquired a reasonable grasp of life skills ). At the end of the day, that's what most employers care about.
Of course the abovementioned wouldn't apply to someone without a degree in a relevant field wanting to work as a doctor/lawyer/engineer/accountant... -
Originally posted by walesa:
to tell u y experience, what i have learnt in electrical engineering in NUS is mainly lecture notes, theory stuff. Hands on are lab session, progamming stuff, and project stuff also take up part of the learning.
While you could technically make a case that knowledge could be acquired on one's own initiative, there's no denying that qualifications for [b]professional degrees - medicine, law, dentistry, engineering and accountancy are some examples of professional degrees - are still required globally should one wish to practise in that field.
In that sense, interest and circumstances permitting, such professional degrees would still merit more relevance to its particular industry than say a literature degree for someone who wishes to teach literature in school.[/b]
This itheory nformation can be easily obtained. you can just ask a engineering friend to print all these things. There are also many breath modules and also quite theory based.
lab session, programming and software and project stuff do requires you to be in the school to use the facilities.
therefore the difference bewteen self learner and degree student is the inability to use lab session facilities, programming software and project related things.
i not stating any point here though. -
I too am an Electrical Engineer by training, but I don't live by the trade I've been schooled in either.Originally posted by january:to tell u y experience, what i have learnt in electrical engineering in NUS is mainly lecture notes, theory stuff. Hands on are lab session, progamming stuff, and project stuff also take up part of the learning.
This itheory nformation can be easily obtained. you can just ask a engineering friend to print all these things. There are also many breath modules and also quite theory based.
lab session, programming and software and project stuff do requires you to be in the school to use the facilities.
therefore the difference bewteen self learner and degree student is the inability to use lab session facilities, programming software and project related things.
i not stating any point here though.
What you've observed, in essence, was what I addressed earlier. While you could self-learn the rotes of the trade on your own, you can only practise as an engineer if you're certified/accredited by the body that governs your particular specialised profession (if applicable) - that, in truth, is how things work for every industry that requires professionals (ie.people without accreditation are not recognised in that industry). In our case (assuming you and I decide to become practising engineers in Singapore), we - through our degrees - are accredited by the PEB (Singapore) to do that job. That is what seperates us from those who aspire to be an engineer - and may even be more knowledgeable than us - but do not have the qualifications to allow them to practise the trade by PEB (http://www.peb.gov.sg/peb/html/index.html).
What I'm trying to say is, if your alternative career is not a job that requires professional qualifications and accreditations, you're absolutely not disadvantaged just because you decide to work in a field that is unrelated to your studies... -
He didn't wrote his own Basic interpreter. Period.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I assume you also know that he wrote the his own Basic interpreter. Does that diminish his skills in any way? Not least he was involved in the some of the early mac development. -
so which idea is he so successfully selling and monopolising now? other programmes or the windows browser that made microsoft?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I assume you also know that he wrote the his own Basic interpreter. Does that diminish his skills in any way? Not least he was involved in the some of the early mac development. -
therefore the difference bewteen self learner and degree student is the inability to use lab session facilities, programming software and project related things.
And the difference between a self learner and a degree student is the initiative.
I may not be an engineering student, but based on the softwares that my current engineering friends are using, I wouldn't say they are unobtainable. If you want to go the legal route, you have to pay for the softwares used. If you don't, go online and look for cracks or use open-sourced tools. I choose the latter.
Lab equipment wise, it will all depends on the type of engineering. I wouldn't expect someone doing biomedical engineering to have the money to buy those equipment, but those electrical engineering, to have the ability to pay for them. Even if they can't, there are lots of second hand stuff that can be bought and be used as learning materials. I have lots of second hand stuff at home, all have been repaired and is usable now. Nothing is really impossible if you are willing to take the initiative. -
PC... go and read his biography in Microsoft...Originally posted by vito_corleone:so which idea is he so successfully selling and monopolising now? other programmes or the windows browser that made microsoft?
It's ironic if you think of it. -
It is indeed ironic. All that before you discount the charm he had in life - Gates had actually offered to sell the rights of DOS to IBM, only for IBM to turn him down. What happened thereafter, as most would already know, is history...Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:PC... go and read his biography in Microsoft...
It's ironic if you think of it. -
After some thought i realized what i want to say abt singapore education system.
For primary and secondary school and JC, it does not charge alot so it is quite efficent thing.
For university and polytechnic, it charges alot for lecture fees. Lecture mainly teaches theory stuff and it brings alot of revenue to the university. Profits for university is good for university but bad for students becos if u calculate the lecture fees, it is going to cost a lot.
The point is this, lecture notes can be disseminated easily and people who are willing to read it will learn about it without the lecturer and save a lot of money.
Saving money is good news for students and it will leave us less debt when we enter the working world. This is precisely what i think the education system is not efficient enough.
The education system should allow self learning for theory part and hence allow students to save more money. This is not happening in singapore or other countries but lets leave out other countries for this discussion.
Usage of software and sophisticated computers, lab equipment, administration cost of setting test and project are hard to self learn so its fair that university charge student a certain amount of money.
As i have said, if my suggestion is implementated, the university/or polytechnic will has a great loss in revenue. -
After some thought i realized what i want to say abt singapore education system.
For primary and secondary school and JC, it does not charge alot so it is quite efficent thing.
For university and polytechnic, it charges alot for lecture fees. Lecture mainly teaches theory stuff and it brings alot of revenue to the university. Profits for university is good for university but bad for students becos if u calculate the lecture fees, it is going to cost a lot.
The point is this, lecture notes can be disseminated easily and people who are willing to read it will learn about it without the lecturer and save a lot of money.
Saving money is good news for students and it will leave us less debt when we enter the working world. This is precisely what i think the education system is not efficient enough.
The education system should allow self learning for theory part and hence allow students to save more money. This is not happening in singapore or other countries but lets leave out other countries for this discussion.
Usage of software and sophisticated computers, lab equipment, administration cost of setting test and project are hard to self learn so its fair that university charge student a certain amount of money.
As i have said, if my suggestion is implementated, the university/or polytechnic will has a great loss in revenue.
If system don't change to help students save cost where possible, many students and their families are going to bear finanical burden paying for fees which will inevitably lead to more stress among the other expenditure they are have to meet.
If system changes and allow students to save cost, then they can faster earn more money and families will has less burden, leading to increase in quality of life by abit. -
this is precisely what lectures are about. there's too much to teach to squeeze everything into a few hours a week. the notes the lecturers give you should only consist of 10% of the curriculum, the remainder you have to learn using your own initiative, and when you're stumped, then you approach the lecturers for advice, that is their role, to advice, not to spoonfeed.
the students who aren't able to come up with the remaining 90% themselves, should not deserve to pass. IMO, that is the problem with singapore's education, as well as many other universities all over the world. -
this is for china situation from straits time may 10
Jobs are scare for millions of grads who lack skills needed in booming economy
much of the blame for the graduate glut has been directed at chinese universities that are enrolling students to profit from rising number of families.
"Most of what we are taught in school is useless after graduation. We have to learn a lot in society by ourselves and try hard to survive," said Mr Gao Jian, whose financial diploma earned last year from Bejing University was not enough to land him a job.
Mr Liu Haifeng, a recrutier for an electronics company said, "Students come out of college with a degree but not much else. The only real solution is to reform our education system to ....."
I am not saying that Singapore university is like that also but i feel that singapore graduate has been shortchanged. Learning is a fine thing, so i have no complain whatsoever about every word i read for my 4 year course but to be charged such a high price, i think the university has to truly make its student become smart people who will be successful in their life and work.