What's PM's LabourDay msg got to do with the aged?
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I think May Day is about celebrating the ‘worker’. In my imagination, the ‘worker’ is someone young(ish), full of life, healthy and has a lot to live for.
But in his May Day speech, S’pore PM Lee (quoted in http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/273404/1/.html) mentioned something that I would think are not likely to be found in the same sentence: ”aged” and “labour”.
According to CNA, ”Mr Lee noted that one major long-term challenge is the rapid ageing of Singapore’s population. The key goal, said the Prime Minister, is to enable workers to work longer and retire later.”
“Which other developed nation in the world tries to get their elderly to work longer/retire later, rather than retire and enjoy retirement”, I wonder? I think this is the twisted logic of a staunchly non-welfare state where the elderly have to take care of themselves, despite how much they’ve contributed to the nation in their youths.
I’m not one to suggest that the Singapore government gives out money to the unemployed young in fits of ‘welfare’ kindness, but I’m sure that with all our wealth, the aged and elderly should be able to retire at 62 (the official retirement age) and be supported by the state (in terms of medical, daily needs…etc) if they qualify. Asking our aged to work longer/retire later is to insult their efforts of nation-building that they would’ve been engaged in for the past 4-5 decades of their lives. I know I want to retire at 62, if I can, and take a long rest.
Anyway, how many of of elderly in Singapore can get a plump job like our 80-year-old+ MM LKY who draws a few millions each year? With that salary, I would volunteer to work till the day I stop breathing. -
Very simple, this is so that they can get to keep and use our CPF money longer... -
He's learning to be like his predecessor, Goh TalkCock.
I'm still waiting for the Swiss Standard of Living.
In Sinkapoor, you are forced to retire at 35.
So if you are not self-employed by then, you can join the booming services industries as a cleaner or security guard. No disrespect to the people in these professions, but that is the reality behind his talk. -
what's not obvious to "obviousman" is that he's equated the bloody party with the country...
and it's obvious that he's been stupid enough to be hoodwinked by the bloody party..
get with the programme! -
there's this nagging suspicion that if everyone were to encash their cpf at the same time, it doesn't have enough to cover all. and they also want us to work, work and work without retirement and straight off to the grave while contributing to the taxes to pay for the salaries....
is this better than a corrupt system? i'm beginning to think not...at the very least when i give some under-table monies i can obtain some 'benefits', now i only see a very select group of people enjoying the national resource while suckers like us get sucked into the ever deepening abyss.
this is no labour day, it's labourious to be in this place....move forward together? hello, the masses are being left behind..... -
thought for our generation, CPF cashed out has already been changed to monthly withdrawal from aged 62 onwards instead of lump sum payment.Originally posted by countdracula:there's this nagging suspicion that if everyone were to encash their cpf at the same time, it doesn't have enough to cover all. and they also want us to work, work and work without retirement and straight off to the grave while contributing to the taxes to pay for the salaries....
bloody policy... -
So long as the aged Singaporeans continue to work, there will have to be CPF contributions.
With the cost of living being high as it is, can Singaporeans afford NOT to work even as they pass retirement age of 60 years ?
Unfortunately, how many plump jobs are there for a 60 year old Singaporean - when the only plump job is held by MM and SM, with an obscene salary of MILLIONS paid annually out of the struggling tax payers's pockets ?
PM's Labor Day speech seem to have a hidden message that will not be revealed that as Singaporeans reach the CPF withdrawal age, most will have accumulated a sizeable pile of money - ranging from $60,000 to $1,000,000.
The entire CPF system is dependent on a continuous entry of a large pool of new workers at the base of a pyramid, and a smaller pool of workers retiring each year - as the top of the pyramid.
The large pool of workers will add to the large amount that is available for more investments to be made, so as to pay out the huge amount accumulated through the years from the contributions of those about to retire.
With a shrinking population, the entire pyramid is now turned upside down, with a large number of retirees being supported by a reduced number of new CPF contributors.
Is it any wonder that there is also the other frantic push of new foreign talents that are freely welcomed into Singapore ?
With HDB flats sold at such high prices - that do not reflect the low cost of land and the economies of scale achieved by the HDB - the Government will make a huge profit that more then cover the cost of interest paid for using the CPF to develop the infrastructures in Singapore.
This single lifetime purchase of an HDB unit will wipe out a lifetime saving in the CPF, and many elderly Singaporeans will see their Standard of Living being compromised when they have to downgrade in order to continue living decently in their old age.
The Swiss Standard of Living is a PIPE DREAM, while the Swiss Cost of Living is here to stay.
PM LHL had to address this concern of a 'greying' labor force, as it also will affect the Government's ability to pay in cash when CPF Payout is claimed by every retiring Singaporean. The only solution is for elderly Singaprean to continue working, and for CPF to release the retirement money in trickle of $200 per month. -
It sure reads and sounds fraudulant...!!!Originally posted by Atobe:So long as the aged Singaporeans continue to work, there will have to be CPF contributions.
With the cost of living being high as it is, can Singaporeans afford NOT to work even as they pass retirement age of 60 years ?
Unfortunately, how many plump jobs are there for a 60 year old Singaporean - when the only plump job is held by MM and SM, with an obscene salary of MILLIONS paid annually out of the struggling tax payers's pockets ?
PM's Labor Day speech seem to have a hidden message that will not be revealed that as Singaporeans reach the CPF withdrawal age, most will have accumulated a sizeable pile of money - ranging from $60,000 to $1,000,000.
The entire CPF system is dependent on a continuous entry of a large pool of new workers at the base of a pyramid, and a smaller pool of workers retiring each year - as the top of the pyramid.
The large pool of workers will add to the large amount that is available for more investments to be made, so as to pay out the huge amount accumulated through the years from the contributions of those about to retire.
With a shrinking population, the entire pyramid is now turned upside down, with a large number of retirees being supported by a reduced number of new CPF contributors.
Is it any wonder that there is also the other frantic push of new foreign talents that are freely welcomed into Singapore ?
With HDB flats sold at such high prices - that do not reflect the low cost of land and the economies of scale achieved by the HDB - the Government will make a huge profit that more then cover the cost of interest paid for using the CPF to develop the infrastructures in Singapore.
This single lifetime purchase of an HDB unit will wipe out a lifetime saving in the CPF, and many elderly Singaporeans will see their Standard of Living being compromised when they have to downgrade in order to continue living decently in their old age.
The Swiss Standard of Living is a PIPE DREAM, while the Swiss Cost of Living is here to stay.
PM LHL had to address this concern of a 'greying' labor force, as it also will affect the Government's ability to pay in cash when CPF Payout is claimed by every retiring Singaporean. The only solution is for elderly Singaprean to continue working, and for CPF to release the retirement money in trickle of $200 per month.
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OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!
What the FARK, can one do with $200 per month???????
nnbcb....
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Don't just look at it that way. Not being able to withdraw all CPF funds at retirement also enables one to earn 4% guaranteed interest per annum. So, this method also enables the ordinary S'porean to survive on his money longer.Originally posted by Atobe:PM LHL had to address this concern of a 'greying' labor force, as it also will affect the Government's ability to pay in cash when CPF Payout is claimed by every retiring Singaporean. The only solution is for elderly Singaprean to continue working, and for CPF to release the retirement money in trickle of $200 per month. -
4% ??Originally posted by Rock^Star:Don't just look at it that way. Not being able to withdraw all CPF funds at retirement also enables one to earn 4% guaranteed interest per annum. So, this method also enables the ordinary S'porean to survive on his money longer.
Not sure where you get this percentage from, but you could try to get the exact interest rate of 2.5% payable to CPF accounts from the CPF Website.
At 2.5% interest paid to CPF accounts, the Government is using the CPF monies for infrastructural development at a cheaper market rate than their borrowings from bonds and development funds that the Government will have to pay others a minimum of 3.5% to 5%.
If this is not short changing Singaporeans, what is ?
Who will know if the CPF funds are being used by the GIC or Temasek Holdings - or used as capital by other GLCs - for their overseas financial adventures and shopping spree abroad ?
The glowing positive results that the GIC, Temasek and GLCs have claimed have no benefit to Singaporeans, given that every two to five years fees and prices of essential services continue to go up and adding to high profits of these GLCs. -
On this Labor Day, while the PM attempt to milk some good PR for himself, the stark reality facing Singaporeans are cleverly disguised by glowing reports in the state controlled print and broadcast media - which attempt to present the stark reality in softer ways.
Channel NewsAsia
Employment rises by 48,000 in January-March quarter: MOM
Posted: 30 April 2007 1036 hrs
Job growth in Singapore in the first quarter of this year continues to be strong on the back of healthy economic growth.
Latest figures from the Manpower Ministry show that 48,000 jobs were added to the economy between January and March this year.
The unemployment rate during the quarter stood at 2.9 percent as more people entered the labour force.
Singapore's trade-driven economy grew at an annualised rate of 7.2 percent in the first quarter, slowing from the 7.9 percent pace of the fourth quarter, advance data showed.
The Manpower Ministry said all major sectors added workers and leading the pack was the services industry with 33,400 workers.
The employment in the construction industry also picked up, with its workforce increasing by 5,000. - CNA/ch
The unemployment rate up till end-2006 was at 2.5 percent, and if jobs are a plenty, why will there be a sudden spike of 0.4 percent to bring the current unemployment rate to 2.9 percent ?
New retrenchments go unreported, as more factories downsize and relocate operations.
Straits Times - 1 May 2007
Job growth spurs more Singapore residents to seek work
THE strong economy has prompted more Singapore residents to join the queue of workers looking for jobs.
Glowing reports of jobs aplenty, and the PM's optimism of high paying jobs for Singaporeans will not make it happen, as Singaporeans compete against foreigners for the same jobs in the Open Job Market.
With new entrants into the labor force - from foreign source as well as from the annual granduands from the Universities, Polytechnics, ITEs and schools - those in their 40s to late 50s will find it even harder to look for work since their retrenchment in 2002.
A separate report in Channel NewsAsia stated that 'SMEs hurt by high rentals' - any of those in the mid-40s and late 50s that have started their own business to support themselves in their remaining years will find themselves caught in a double whammy.
Can the entrepreneurial spirit of the SMEs be further dampened by the PM's optimism of higher wages for Singaporean workers, even as their rentals are slowly killing them ?
From Channel NewsAsia
SMEs affected by high rents
By Chow Penn Nee, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 30 April 2007 1915 hrs
SINGAPORE: The booming property market is eating into the margins of small- and medium-sized businesses in Singapore.
Skyrocketing rents are squeezing their bottom lines and there has been a move away from the city area so as to manage the growing costs.
URA numbers showed that for the whole of last year, prices of office space increased by 17 percent while rentals rose by more than 30 percent.
A growing number of properties have also been spun off into REITs - or bought over by these trusts - and their rentals have also been heading north.
Kurt Wee, Association of Small-Medium Enterprises' Vice-President for Awards & Projects, said: "Larger and larger proportion of properties in Singapore are being owned more and more by REITs, and REITs actually have a performance factor in their revenue and they have been increasing rentals as well."
Market watchers say that businesses are moving out to the outskirts to manage their rental costs or shifting back-room operations to remote locations.
Philip Overmyer, Executive Director of Singapore International Chamber of Commerce, said: "This creates a big problem with employees. The people that they've employed downtown find it difficult to get out to remote locations, so it becomes (an) employment problem which creates a competitive problem at the same time."
Apart from operating costs, businesses are also finding it more difficult to attract foreign talent due to the increase in rentals for homes.
With the supply of prime grade office space expected to lag behind demand over the next few years, industry watchers say rising rentals will continue to put pressure on local businesses. - CNA/ir
Taking into consideration all the events as reported, and viewing them without the tinted glasses, is there cause for optimism or serious concerns ? -
Those who wanna know the underline msg:
Work longer, so you can put more money into our (govt) coffers. -
this is a classic pyramid scheme....you delay as long as you can to pay out entire sums to keep intact the structure...the thing is you will not likely get to enjoy the full sum...while you may secure some form of miserable existence, indirectly you stifled entrepreneurship too........too much idle money around, and what's more they are not in your pocket..Originally posted by Rock^Star:Don't just look at it that way. Not being able to withdraw all CPF funds at retirement also enables one to earn 4% guaranteed interest per annum. So, this method also enables the ordinary S'porean to survive on his money longer.
they are indeed ingenious, stripped you of your money, then dole out your money and they claim the have once again made brilliant policies to justify their stratospheric wages... -
4% interest all the way once CPF member reaches 55. He has option to park it in bank schemes or leave it in CPF.Originally posted by Atobe:4% ??
Not sure where you get this percentage from, but you could try to get the exact interest rate of 2.5% payable to CPF accounts from the CPF Website.
At 2.5% interest paid to CPF accounts, the Government is using the CPF monies for infrastructural development at a cheaper market rate than their borrowings from bonds and development funds that the Government will have to pay others a minimum of 3.5% to 5%.
If this is not short changing Singaporeans, what is ?
Click here
and here
If a member's monies has reached the minimum sum, he may withdraw up to half. Even if one does not achieve minimum sum, he may withdraw up to a certain limit.
CPF Withdrawal
1. How much can I withdraw from my Special and Ordinary Accounts when I reach 55?
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If you reach 55 between 1 July 2006 and 30 June 2007, the following rules apply:
CPF Balance at age 55 (excluding the amount in the Medisave Account)
Amount which can be withdrawn
$5,000 or less - The member can withdraw all his savings
$5,000 to $10,000 - The member can withdraw up to $5,000 and set aside the remainder in his Retirement Account*.
$10,001 to $189,200 - The member can withdraw up to 50% of the total balance in his Special and Ordinary Accounts. The remainder will be set aside in his Retirement Account.*
Above $189,200 - The member can withdraw all his savings after setting aside the Minimum Sum of $94,600 (as at July 2006) and the prevailing Required Amount ($11,500 for 2007) in the Medisave Account [see Question 2].
*The Retirement Account is created when a member reaches age 55.
SOURCE
Yes the govt would like to keep our money for as long as possible but they play fair here too. Do not let a lack of understanding of the CPF mechanics hinder one's judgement. -
Yes, I have no doubt that this govt is money-minded but on your end, how sure are you of the CPF schemes?Originally posted by countdracula:this is a classic pyramid scheme....you delay as long as you can to pay out entire sums to keep intact the structure...the thing is you will not likely get to enjoy the full sum...while you may secure some form of miserable existence, indirectly you stifled entrepreneurship too........too much idle money around, and what's more they are not in your pocket..
they are indeed ingenious, stripped you of your money, then dole out your money and they claim the have once again made brilliant policies to justify their stratospheric wages...
Dp refer to my reply to Atobe. -
With that kind of obscene salary that doesn't remotely commensurate with one's worth, most would want to carry on working even after they've stopped breathing...Originally posted by blueheeler:Anyway, how many of of elderly in Singapore can get a plump job like our 80-year-old+ MM LKY who draws a few millions each year? With that salary, I would volunteer to work till the day I stop breathing.
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In Singapore, you live to work and work until you die.
Retirement is a dirty word.
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[quote]Originally posted by Atobe:
[b]The unemployment rate up till end-2006 was at 2.5 percent, and if jobs are a plenty, why will there be a sudden spike of 0.4 percent to bring the current unemployment rate to 2.9 percent ?
New retrenchments go unreported, as more factories downsize and relocate operations
Perhaps we need some details on the level of frictional, seasonal and/or structural umemployment so that we can better arrive at an arbitrary definition of full employment.
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One thing I really hate about Chee is that he only has bad things to say about our govt. And he doesn't just say it, he rants. Just puts opposition parties in a bad light. And his sister, with that defiant face and persona, makes me think ten times before I would even vote for her.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Here's an enlightening link
>>> http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/article_A_Nation_Cheated_2.html
While there may be some truths to his argument, there is only so much faith that one may put in a "fanatic democrat" like him. -
Originally posted by blueheeler:
ha ha, not surprised he spoke what he said above. I have always doubt is he that sincere and genuine in caring for the people of Singapore. probably he wants singaporeans to work longer and retire later is to make sure he will still be paid the unreasonable super high fat salary. if majority is to retire early, then they will get less revenue and this may affect their salary. he has stated a couple of times before that Singapore is not to be a welfare state, look at what he said, do we still have faith and confidence that he will take very good care of the old. Well, think he only thinks of his own good.
I think May Day is about celebrating the ‘worker’. In my imagination, the ‘worker’ is someone young(ish), full of life, healthy and has a lot to live for.
But in his May Day speech, S’pore PM Lee (quoted in http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/273404/1/.html) mentioned something that I would think are not likely to be found in the same sentence: ”aged” and “labour”.
According to CNA, ”Mr Lee noted that one major long-term challenge is the rapid ageing of Singapore’s population. The key goal, said the Prime Minister, is to enable [b]workers to work longer and retire later.”
“Which other developed nation in the world tries to get their elderly to work longer/retire later, rather than retire and enjoy retirement”, I wonder? I think this is the twisted logic of a staunchly non-welfare state where the elderly have to take care of themselves, despite how much they’ve contributed to the nation in their youths.
I’m not one to suggest that the Singapore government gives out money to the unemployed young in fits of ‘welfare’ kindness, but I’m sure that with all our wealth, the aged and elderly should be able to retire at 62 (the official retirement age) and be supported by the state (in terms of medical, daily needs…etc) if they qualify. Asking our aged to work longer/retire later is to insult their efforts of nation-building that they would’ve been engaged in for the past 4-5 decades of their lives. I know I want to retire at 62, if I can, and take a long rest.
Anyway, how many of of elderly in Singapore can get a plump job like our 80-year-old+ MM LKY who draws a few millions each year? With that salary, I would volunteer to work till the day I stop breathing.
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So far, what he said in his position as PM doesn't carry much weight. To me he is just being superficial and not have a genuine and sincere heart to serve the nation. No wonder, so many don't respect him and think he is not capable. "Suay" to have him as our PM!
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Thanks for your clarification but looking at your referenced site given, the 4% is only applicable to the Medisave, and Retirement Account only and not for the main portion of our money in the CPF Account.
4% interest all the way once CPF member reaches 55. He has option to park it in bank schemes or leave it in CPF.
Click here
and here
If a member's monies has reached the minimum sum, he may withdraw up to half. Even if one does not achieve minimum sum, he may withdraw up to a certain limit.
[b]CPF Withdrawal
1. How much can I withdraw from my Special and Ordinary Accounts when I reach 55?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you reach 55 between 1 July 2006 and 30 June 2007, the following rules apply:
CPF Balance at age 55 (excluding the amount in the Medisave Account)
Amount which can be withdrawn
$5,000 or less - The member can withdraw all his savings
$5,000 to $10,000 - The member can withdraw up to $5,000 and set aside the remainder in his Retirement Account*.
$10,001 to $189,200 - The member can withdraw up to 50% of the total balance in his Special and Ordinary Accounts. The remainder will be set aside in his Retirement Account.*
Above $189,200 - The member can withdraw all his savings after setting aside the Minimum Sum of $94,600 (as at July 2006) and the prevailing Required Amount ($11,500 for 2007) in the Medisave Account [see Question 2].
*The Retirement Account is created when a member reaches age 55.
SOURCE
Yes the govt would like to keep our money for as long as possible but they play fair here too. Do not let a lack of understanding of the CPF mechanics hinder one's judgement.
[/b]
If the bulk of the CPF account holders have a long way to retirement, the CPF amount is still paid 2.5% per annum.
CPF Interest Rates (01 Apr 2007 to 30 Jun 2007)
(reviewed quarterly)
Ordinary account 2.5% p.a.
Medisave, Special & Retirement accounts 4% p.a.
CPF members receive a market-related interest rate (based on the 12-month fixed deposit and month-end savings rates of the major local banks) on their CPF savings. For funds that are placed for retirement and a longer period of time, like savings in the Special and Retirement Accounts, members would earn additional interest of 1.5 percentage points above the normal CPF interest rate.
From 1 October 2001, savings in the Medisave Account will also earn additional interest of 1.5 percentage points above the CPF interest rate. This is to help CPF members build up their Medisave savings faster.
Under the CPF Act, the Board pays a minimum interest of 2.5% per annum when the CPF interest formula yields a lower rate. CPF interest is computed monthly and, compounded and credited annually.
Your second referenced site merely described the manner in which the CPF payout is delayed till one reaches 55 years (payout to be completed by age 84 years), and with the amount held in the Retirement Fund to be increased up to a sum of $120,000 gradually by the target date 2013.
Any Singaporean that do not has no regular contribution into the CPF can hardly realise anything close to the required amount for Medisave, let alone into the Retirement Fund.
Your Retirement Savings And Withdrawals
Your CPF is for your retirement. You can withdraw your CPF savings when you turn 55, after setting aside your CPF Minimum Sum. Your CPF Minimum Sum can be used to buy life annuity from a participating insurance company, placed with a participating bank or left in your Retirement Account with the CPF Board. From age 62, you will receive monthly payments from your CPF Minimum Sum to help meet your basic needs in retirement. If you had bought a life annuity, you will receive the monthly income for life. If you leave your CPF Minimum Sum with a participating bank or with CPF Board, you will receive the monthly income until your CPF Minimum Sum is exhausted. To stretch the Minimum Sum, you may wish to start your monthly payouts later. If the payout is deferred by a year, they will last two more years. For example, if you start your payouts at age 63 instead of 62, the payouts will last till age 84 instead of 82.
The CPF Minimum Sum is set at $94,600 from 1 July 2006 and will be raised gradually until it reaches $120,000 (in 2003 dollars) in 2013.
If you meet the CPF Minimum Sum, you will need to set aside a Medisave Required Amount when you withdraw your CPF. If you have less than the Medisave Required Amount, you can use your Special and/or Ordinary Accounts, in excess of the CPF Minimum Sum to set aside the Medisave Required Amount. This includes the first withdrawal upon reaching 55 and all subsequent withdrawals.
The Medisave Required Amount is set at $11,500 from 1 January 2007 and will increase by $2,500 (adjusted for inflation) each year until it reaches $25,000 (in 2003 dollars) on 1 January 2013.
You can also withdraw your CPF savings if you leave Singapore and West Malaysia permanently or become permanently incapacitated.
For those reaching 55, you may apply online to withdraw your CPF using my cpf Online Services - My Request service. ItÂ’s convenient and your application can be submitted anytime, anywhere. All you need is your CPF Account Number and SingPass. Click here to apply online.
Does the government play fair by paying 2.5% to the CPF account (4% for the Medisave), and only paying a full 4% to a Retirement Fund of $120,000 only when we reach 55 years ?
Does the Government play fair, when they get to use cheap CPF funds at below market rate, using our money to build infrastructure, and thereafter charges us atrocious prices for the use of it, and in the process bloat up the National Reserves.
Wealth is transferred from the Citizens into the Finance Ministry, and justify the demand for the Cabinet Ministers to be paid million dollar salaries, while Singaporean Tax Payers face an insecure and unpredictable future. -
"Wealth is transferred from the Citizens into the Finance Ministry, and justify the demand for the Cabinet Ministers to be paid million dollar salaries, while Singaporean Tax Payers face an insecure and unpredictable future".
Agree with the above. With LHL as our PM, I really am not confident of the future of Singapore. Talking about future, yes he has a good future but I am not sure about the future of the people of Singapore. Finance Ministry - wealth ??? Lee hsien loong is the minister for this ministry. MAS under him, Finance ministry also under him, wa where $$$$ he wants to have a hand to control and have a say. Does he become a PM because of $$$? What a shame!!
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now... if only our ministers read forums...
fact is they just don't have enough contact with people below the middle class group.. i mean come on they are surrounded by elites everywhere, those open dialogue at CCs ain't enough to make a real sound policy.
(just my 2 cents don flame mi am only 17)