Then no need interview already fail.Originally posted by ditzy:Next time you'll have to wear a paperbag over your head to attend a job interview.![]()
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Commendable but obstacles aplenty.
What I suggest is a grassroots approach, you can't expect soceity to simply change now but you can.
Learn more about other cultures, work with them, when you raise your children teach them about the importance of racial harmony. Speak out in defence of other races when you hear members of your own making ignorant remarks about them, help them understand the POVs of other cultures. Treat everyone fairly.
These are the things that will truly change us at the end of the day.
Sometimes, it really feels impolite to defer, when at the dinner table, everyone is having a great time poking ridicules at his very own race from another country. Call that prejudice of being educated differently if you like.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:What I suggest is a grassroots approach, you can't expect soceity to simply change now but you can.
Learn more about other cultures, work with them, when you raise your children teach them about the importance of racial harmony. Speak out in defence of other races when you hear members of your own making ignorant remarks about them, help them understand the POVs of other cultures. Treat everyone fairly.
These are the things that will truly change us at the end of the day.
Who said it will be easy? But all things have to start somewhere and you may not even see the benefits in your lifetime.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Commendable but obstacles aplenty.
What will motivate these parents to speak well of other races and to encourage their children to do inter-racial marriages?
A lot of Singaporeans were taught from young to observe racial harmony but what happened when we finally grew up? Different races going out with their own. Very true of crowds at MRTs, hawker centres, pubs, cinemas etc.What our soceity needs to strike now is a healthy respect for our own culture and that of others.
This is the strong force of cultural differences, not something which may be easily rectified.
NEVER in my adult life, have I ever believed that they have solved anything, or are serious and on the ball about solving anything... it's all Instant Noodles all the time!Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Exactly, so what makes you think they will really be on the ball to solve this issue given the current employment situtation has worked so far, and that Singapore needs to be more welcoming to FTs, a large proportion of which will be from the PRC?
Hence while a lot of noise is made about discriminatory employment requirements, they might pass some law but never actually getting down to the root of the problem because as long as it works why fiddle with it too much? Fiddling with the employment culture too much will alienate our PRC FTs.
Or minorities may find some laws in their favour, but at the end of the day they will still experience the same difficulties and discrimination, just that it has some back in some other way.
Good analysis but what will motivate these parents to speak well of other races and to encourage their children to do inter-racial marriages?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:What our soceity needs to strike now is a healthy respect for our own culture and that of others.
I think the goal of being able to see people of all races mix equally in all situtations then it's going to be a very long shot and still worth aiming for (if not the eventual goal) But a more realistic goal would be to remove the nagging forms of racism that still nip at our heels.
What I am saying, in other words, is that by all means if we still decide to stick with people of our own race when we go out and stuff like that fair enough... but when it comes to crunch time we have the ability to treat all races equally and with respect.
At the end of the day unique cultures require some form of soluitude (or segregation if you may) in order to retain their own uniqueness and flavour. This is not inherently wrong any more then you need some time on your own as well... it becomes an illness when we start to indulge in our cultural solitude at the expense of others and forgetting that they are like us, a member of the human race as well.
The opposite error would be to become a 'phile of any other culture while neglecting your own. For example one starts to think that inter-racial marriages are somehow more noble then those of the non inter-racial fare, or that to be proven not racist one has to disown his own culture.
Balance, at the end of the day, balance. The novice rushes to extremes in his actions but the wise man knows how to balance.
As I said it's a grassroots thing.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Good analysis but what will motivate these parents to speak well of other races and to encourage their children to do inter-racial marriages?
In what ways can the govt teach the various races to be more racially tolerant and not say things like, "Malays are lazy, Chinese are calculative etc etc?
Incorporating such teachings in the textbooks obviously have not helped. Any other ways besides talking idealistically that "people should respect one another" or "one should not over-indulge in his/her own race" etc etc?
Slavery was abolished because Abraham Lincoln stayed true to his faith. He did not give up the war against the the Confederacy even when the odds were against him.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:So how to convince the common man? At the end of the day it starts with people who are willing to fight racism as and where they see it, just as we might stop a theif even if there was no policeman around to catch them.
Was slavery abolished overnight? Did the civil rights movement in America that allowed the African American much of their rights come about easily? No, it all started with an idea that men believed in the goodness of, and then put their lives and work in the direction of that idea.
I don't think "Mandarin Speaking Only Need Apply" discriminates against the race. It may discriminate against the Non-Mandarin Speaking folks.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Have you ever come across the many job ads stating "Mandarin speaking only need apply"?? While "Must be conversant in English" is acceptable...
If this isn't some form of discrimination, then I don't know what is...
The example on its own may seem odd, but the logic doesn't sound remotely discriminatory if you get my drift. I mean, "mandarin speaking only need apply" and "chinese only need apply" have two totally different connotations. That is pure logic - just like why certain jobs in Singapore specifically demand its applicants to possess a good command of English despite that being the lingua franca in this country. You can't assume anyone remotely associated with an ethnicity that speaks a particular language would naturally be versed in one (for instance, not all ethnic chinese can speak decent mandarin and those who fall under this category wouldn't be qualified for jobs that are "mandarin speaking only need apply" either).Originally posted by ShutterBug:I find your example odd; because if Greek is required in Singapore, to me I'd view it that they are seeking largely European applicants. However, there are some Asians who too, can speak Greek. Come on, LANGUAGE is always tied to RACE. Unless words like translator, teacher, or any posts under the linguistic profession are used, stipulating a certain language only indicates preferences of RACE.
It is not impossible to deter employers from being discrimnatory, our Multi Million Dollar government can surely dish out some dictatorial rules or regulations to do so. It's not difficult for such high salaried men and women to do.. just dictate.
The problem with people here in Singapore, is that we grumble and rant about how our government is so dictatorial but yet, do things in such ways that leaves them, our gov., no choice but to BE dictatorial. Otherwise people don't buck up...
I don't see how encouraging inter-racial marriages has to do with racial tolerance. In fact, the opposite might even be true. It usually leads to the female side totally ditching her own culture or both adopting western norms. I find it funny when someone can have two Christian names followed by a Chinese surname. Given another generation, the Chinese surname would just disappear.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Good analysis but what will motivate these parents to speak well of other races and to encourage their children to do inter-racial marriages?
In what ways can the govt teach the various races to be more racially tolerant and not say things like, "Malays are lazy, Chinese are calculative etc etc?
Incorporating such teachings in the textbooks obviously have not helped. Any other ways besides talking idealistically that "people should respect one another" or "one should not over-indulge in his/her own race" etc etc?
Originally posted by ShutterBug:Just because it is not a perfect environment does not mean that we should encourage or allow discrimination to take roots, and assume that it is Okay to practice selective discrimination.
[b]Not fair form to ask these questions?
Lee U-Wen
[email protected]
THE next time you pick up a job application form, it could look different.
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Certain fields — such as those asking for your gender, religion or marital status, even the space where you attach your photograph — could be absent.
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As part of a national push to fight discrimination at the workplace, a new set of guidelines for fair employment practices will be launched tomorrow. These are expected to address, among other things, some of the biggest bugbears among job-seekers here — the interview questions and application forms.
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Giving Today a foretaste of what might be announced, Madam Halimah Yacob, co-chairperson of the one-year-old Tripartite Alliance for Fair Employment Practices, said existing guidelines were not so "specific" about what the forms could or could not ask.
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"Now we are saying that questions such as religion, gender, marital status — even photographs — unless absolutely necessary should be cut out," said the assistant secretary-general of the NTUC.
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The eight-member panel's aim was to update and replace the Code of Responsible Employment Practices issued about five years ago.
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Said Mdm Halimah: "We had a lengthy discussion about making the guidelines for the forms law. But we looked at other countries which ran into difficulties with this. We decided that if the company still chooses not to hire you for whatever reason, it is difficult for any law to catch it. Discrimination is hard to prove."
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With the job market heating up, and a record 176,000 jobs created last year, combating workplace discrimination is ever more vital. Each year, the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) receives an average of 70 related complaints.
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Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, at the May Day Rally yesterday, said Malays and Indians had told him it was harder for them to get jobs.
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He urged employers to be fair and objective, and base hiring decisions on merit alone. "For example, they should not demand that candidates speak or write Chinese in jobs where this is not necessary," he said.
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Then there are the complaints from pregnant workers and job-hunters. Last year, the MOM attended to 71 cases of working mothers-to-be who complained about unfair dismissal.
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At the interview stage, the new guidelines will advise employers on the 'dos' and 'don'ts' of asking questions.
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"Let's not ask inappropriate questions, such as when are you going to have children or getting married," said Mdm Halimah, adding that initiatives such as the baby bonus and longer maternity leave were "pointless" if women risk losing their jobs when they choose to have children.
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But Singapore Human Resources Institute president Ho Geok Choo noted that there were "exceptions" where employers had to know certain personal details.
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For example: If a job requires a civil engineer to be posted to a remote area. "Practicality is going to tell you that it's going to be tough for a female," said Ms Ho. "As long as the employer can justify the reasons, a job-seeker who did not make the cut is less likely to feel discriminated against."
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A group Ms Ho was "very concerned" about: Executives, who do not enjoy much recourse via the unions or the Manpower Ministry.
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Calling for a code of conduct for the way such workers are dealt with in the event they are let go of, Ms Ho said: "I have been advocating that the MOM extends its scope of regulation to cover managers and above.
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"They can be victims of higher politics. Sometimes, it's a new leader that comes into the company ... Increasingly, we have been hearing of foreigners who bring their own team, and they just get rid of the old team."
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Singapore Business Federation council member Lawrence Leow said bosses' welfare must not be forgotten, too.
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"The Employment Act largely protects workers. But fair employment must go both ways. We must spare a thought for employers too, who have to deal with difficult workers, such as those who try to cheat them with false education certificates," he said.
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Other initiatives in the pipeline include the establishment of a new centre for fair employment, to collect public feedback and advise workers and employers keen to adopt such practices.
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The tripartite alliance's Pledge of Fair Employment Practices — a movement launched in September last year — has 419 companies on board to date, with the target being to reach 500 by June. Ministries, statutory boards and Government agencies signed the pledge last month.
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Stamford Tyres staff can only speak Chinese and not English and the Company is the main distributor for Pirrelli tyres ?Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yes, I agree too, not all employers...
What I detest the most are little retail outlets or stores that employs assistants who can only speak well in Mandarin. And when faced with an English speaking local asian Chinese, they get all tongue-tied and blunder over the customer's orders and screws it all up.. why? Because she/he cannot understand English well... ONLY Mandarin...
I once called up Stamford Tyres to enquire about their products, and was told by the salegirl on the phone, to get somebody who speaks Mandarin to call again!!! Can you farking BEAT THAT???
Honourable Atobe,Originally posted by Atobe:Stamford Tyres staff can only speak Chinese and not English and the Company is the main distributor for Pirrelli tyres ?
Marco Polo's long journey to Ancient China must have been the cause.
Strange experience encountered is that the Michelin tyre distributor - Chin Seng Hin had all their staff able to speak English and employ a fair number of Malays in the Company too.
New guidelines on fair employment by TAFEPOriginally posted by walesa:The example on its own may seem odd, but the logic doesn't sound remotely discriminatory if you get my drift. I mean, "mandarin speaking only need apply" and "chinese only need apply" have two totally different connotations. That is pure logic - just like why certain jobs in Singapore specifically demand its applicants to possess a good command of English despite that being the lingua franca in this country. You can't assume anyone remotely associated with an ethnicity that speaks a particular language would naturally be versed in one (for instance, not all ethnic chinese can speak decent mandarin and those who fall under this category wouldn't be qualified for jobs that are "mandarin speaking only need apply" either).
The point about legislation is no known legislation has been proven to work to effectively deter employment discrimination. Through "affirmative action" to promote equal opportunity employment, the US has effectively legally outlawed any discrimination at the workplace on the basis of gender and race. While that seems theoretically fair, there's nothing in the book that can deter an employer from firing you (if you're hired) or denying you an employment opportunity on the basis that your merits are not up to scratch (which could effectively be a smokescreen to mask the true reasons behind his/her discrimination).
Originally posted by ShutterBug:That's what happens when you've people disconnected from reality making decisions for the common folks. I'm sure such talents are worthy of multi-million dollar salaries too...
[b]New guidelines on fair employment by TAFEP
By Ashraf Safdar, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 03 May 2007 1952 hrs
New guidelines on fair employment by TAFEP
SINGAPORE: Advertisements like "only females may apply" or "Indian workers wanted" may soon be a thing of the past.
A tripartite body representing government, management and workers has issued a series of guidelines to reduce discrimination in the workplace.
About 70 people complained of workplace discrimination last year.
Though the number has been relatively stable over the past three years, the Tripartite Alliance for Fair Employment Practices (TAFEP) is not sitting still.
"What we hope to see is a change in values, norms, mindsets... that people are being employed, people are being promoted, sent for value skills, training, upgrading, solely on the basis of merit, and not any other consideration," says Halimah Yacob, Co-Chair, TAFEP.
And so, Madam Halimah and her team have published a series of guidelines on fair employment practices.
For instance, criteria for employment should be specific to job requirements.
Things not relevant - like skin colour, sexual orientation, marital status and age - should be excluded.
"Some of them say that they do find it difficult to get a job because of their age, gender, discrimination or something. But it depends on the role as well. There tend to be some kind of practices, I should say, that are still out there. But as time goes by, we are seeing more and more clients open to hiring people not of a certain mould," says Jagjit Gill, Senior Manager of Operations, Kelly Services.
With these guidelines, the tripartite body hopes workers can look forward to more transparent hiring and employment practices. - CNA/yy
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