Upgrading of skills and huge influx of immigrants - LPPL?
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I cant see the logic on how the govt always ask Singaporeans to upgrade their skills but at the same time opening the floodgate for immigrants to come in. Its like asking you to work hard and spend money to marketing your property without restricting land supply in Singapore.
Isnt it hypocritical to ask workers to upgrade skills, when one of their key of policies is to suppress wages with huge supply of labor to keep Singapore attractive to MNCs? -
Why? Because I want my roads to be swept by workers who charge less than $600 a month. Because Singaporeans will not work as construction workers or in the IT fab, accept shifts or work overtime. Because I don't want restaurant owners to increase bills because their Singaporean waiters demand a higher salary. Because foreigners can do many jobs as well as Singaporeans but are willing to work harder and longer for less pay.
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No, it makes perfect sense. If you do not upgrade your skills, if you cannot function at a higher level than foreign workers, you cannot justify your higher pay. If foreigners can do the same job for less, why should anyone employ you?Originally posted by kilua:Isnt it hypocritical to ask workers to upgrade skills, when one of their key of policies suppress wages with huge supply of labor to keep Singapore attractive to MNCs? -
Obviously, you do not understand the plight of the lower rung in society. You wouldn't say the above if you were them.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Why? Because I want my roads to be swept by workers who charge less than $600 a month. Because Singaporeans will not work as construction workers or in the IT fab, accept shifts or work overtime. Because I don't want restaurant owners to increase bills because their Singaporean waiters demand a higher salary. Because foreigners can do many jobs as well as Singaporeans but are willing to work harder and longer for less pay. -
I understand the point you are putting across. Lower wages would also help to keep cost of living down e.g. food, transport and other services etc.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Why? Because I want my roads to be swept by workers who charge less than $600 a month. Because Singaporeans will not work as construction workers or in the IT fab, accept shifts or work overtime. Because I don't want restaurant owners to increase bills because their Singaporean waiters demand a higher salary. Because foreigners can do many jobs as well as Singaporeans but are willing to work harder and longer for less pay.
But Singaporeans are already facing rising costs and possibly declining wages.For those who bear the brunt of the immigrant policy, that is double whammy . If the govt cannot raise the wages of the bottom 40%, it should at least try to contain cost of living for Singaporeans. For example the MRT is already making huge profits, is there still a need to raise fares? -
It only makes "perfect sense" if you either allow yourself to either be completely dictated by the principles of a market economy or practise protectionism that at least safeguards the livelihood of your own citizenry - for all their excesses, at least many of the EU member states are doing something right by toughening immigration laws, instead of deliberately loosening them to garner a constant supply of cheap labour at the expense of compromising its own citizen's interest. Evidently, going out of the way through the relaxation of immigration legislation to woo foreigners doesn't make "perfect sense"...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:No, it makes perfect sense. If you do not upgrade your skills, if you cannot function at a higher level than foreign workers, you cannot justify your higher pay. If foreigners can do the same job for less, why should anyone employ you?
If what you said made perfect sense, there shouldn't be any locals working as waiters, factory workers and other low-paying menial jobs in the developed world. -
Don't bother about what OM says, he's a PAP Bot...
hard-wired to see things their way... -
Our FT policy is kind of "forced-hand" policy due to our too successful "Stop at 2" children campaign. Together with escalating costs of living, our population growth is slow. So our extra-ordinary team invented the FT Policy and marketed it as a high-class act to cover up their mistakes.Originally posted by kilua:I cant see the logic on how the govt always ask Singaporeans to upgrade their skills but at the same time opening the floodgate for immigrants to come in. Its like asking you to work hard and spend money to marketing your property without restricting land supply in Singapore.
Isnt it hypocritical to ask workers to upgrade skills, when one of their key of policies is to suppress wages with huge supply of labor to keep Singapore attractive to MNCs?
Dun fall into the upgrading trap. It is what our leaders tell the frustrated to do so that they will not revolt. At least make sure you have the chance to apply what you learn before you consider upgrading yourself. Too many people upgrade their skills but have no chance to apply them in the end. -
I am sure you won't want to be a construction worker or a cleaner?
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if they give me a monthly salary of more then 5k to work as a cleaner, am willing to do it, it really doesnt what kind of field you are in, all does matters is the amount you are gettingOriginally posted by soulwinner:I am sure you won't want to be a construction worker or a cleaner? 
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How many days of OT you pull per month and how many hours each time? I tend to pull roughly 20 per month and havn't complained much about the 19 hours of work per day during those OTs. I doubt even a foreigner wants my job at the present level of pay.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Why? Because I want my roads to be swept by workers who charge less than $600 a month. Because Singaporeans will not work as construction workers or in the IT fab, accept shifts or work overtime. Because I don't want restaurant owners to increase bills because their Singaporean waiters demand a higher salary. Because foreigners can do many jobs as well as Singaporeans but are willing to work harder and longer for less pay. -
Originally posted by ShutterBug:
Already resigned not to give any energy even to think of the views as perceived from the mind of a parasitical spore - at least, not until the spore decide to go beyond the OB Markers of our sensibilities.
Don't bother about what OM says, he's a PAP Bot...
hard-wired to see things their way... -
The irony of OM is that he seems to be totally set out against economic protectionism, but yet has no issues with the political protectionism that exists in Singapore? Perhaps the disadvantages of economic protectionism (being e forced to stick with an inefficient and ineffective system, not opening oneself up to real competition and having no real motivation to improve) somehow do not transpose onto our political arena?
And also, one needs to wonder where exactly does the line cross from the moral obligation to provide the people who voted you in a decent and fair shot at staying in the fight to protectionism? Or can everything that even remotely resembles extending a proper helping hand to those who have no alternative be sacrificed on the altar of anti-protectionism?
Also are what many of the people suggesting here a call for protectionism? Or for the system to play fair for once and not keep thinking of the bottom line that seems oddly enough, to benefit only those at the top of the social ladder more then the masses at the bottom.
Indeed, what would happen if we decided to “globalise” our political system and daringly benchmark it against systems from all over the world. Would some people who keep using the buzzwords of “globalisation” suddenly resort to a new buzzword called “extraordinary” and say that you can’t compare?
Why just stop at economic globalisation? -
Originally posted by kilua:
Sorry, lower wages DO NOT help to keep COST of Living down.
I understand the point you are putting across. Lower wages would also help to keep cost of living down e.g. food, transport and other services etc.
But Singaporeans are already facing rising costs and possibly declining wages.For those who bear the brunt of the immigrant policy, that is double whammy . If the govt cannot raise the wages of the bottom 40%, it should at least try to contain cost of living for Singaporeans. For example the MRT is already making huge profits, is there still a need to raise fares?
With lower wages it will simply lower our STANDARD of Living - our Quality of Life, as we have less income to afford even to maintain a reasonable standard of living.
Cost of Living is dictated by the Government - firstly by the land cost that it is prepared to accept when it releases land for developers to buy - so as to build homes, hospitals, schools, shopping malls, offices, and all other amenities relevant to our lives.
When cost of land is purposefully kept ARTIFICIALLY HIGH - it affects the selling price of the homes, shops, offices, schools, hospitals, etc.
With such high costs, the shop owners must charge higher costs to pay for the rentals or bank loans.
As workers, we will need a minimum higher wage so as to cover our mortgages and leave some money to pay for our daily necessities, our children's education, and the family's future.
The Government can affect this cost input if it is willing to be LESS GREEDY in setting the minimum price that it is prepared to dispose of the land for development; as well as to remove unnecessary burden in high development charges and stamp duties on the cost and type of development that is planned for the plot of land.
The other factors that can influence our Cost of Living are also the cost of Essential Services that are dictated by the Government - even though these Essential Services are now provided by "Private Companies" - these Companies are basically Government Owned Companies that are registered as Private Business Entitites.
These Companies are involved in Electricity Generating, Electricity Supply, Water Production and Sewage Treatment, Water Distribution, Garbage and Sewage Collection.
Temasek Holding is the major shareholder of Electricity Generating and sells Electricity at a fixxed price to all the Electricity Supply Companies that add only an extra cent or two on the high supply price.
This means that Temasek is making profit by the minute as we use the computer, the airconditioner, the lightings, the household appliances - and with the money not even going back to the Government Finance Ministry, but into the Profit and Loss Account of Temasek Holdings (probably to be lost in another UNACCOUNTED Shin Corp disaster).
One will need to ask - Why is Temasek Holdings given this extra-ordinay privilege of making money from Singaporeans ?
Is it not supposed to be managing Singapore Reserves by making our reserves earn profits OVERSEAS ?
The other Government Private Owned Companies providing essential services are similarly earning profits from Singaporeans, and are not returned or reported in the Finance Ministry Annual Report - unlike in the past when PUB, PWD and ENV were responsible for these essential services.
With the COST of Living in Singapore NOT dictated by Market Forces, but by the wilful profit goals set by the Government aka the Ruling Party, Singaporeans are paying a higher price than necessary that make our Cost of Living higher than our neighbors.
As the Cost of Living spiral out of control, and gets higher, this will affect the Standard of Living, as we can afford less quality when we must spend more on the essentials to keep ourselves alive.
Cost of Living is not affected by our wages - even when our wages will affect the cost to our employer, who will recover this cost with a higher selling price; in the same manner that this Government will recover the money given to Singaporeans by charging a higher price for all the essential services that are in their monopolistic control. -
Well, it will all depends on what fields you are in. Technology, Science, Engineering, you can't say no to upgrading your skills. The changes in these fields are so fast, that your knowledge/skills will be outdated in a few years.Originally posted by ObviousMan:Dun fall into the upgrading trap. It is what our leaders tell the frustrated to do so that they will not revolt. At least make sure you have the chance to apply what you learn before you consider upgrading yourself. Too many people upgrade their skills but have no chance to apply them in the end. -
Why? Because I want my roads to be swept by workers who charge less than $600 a month. Because Singaporeans will not work as construction workers or in the IT fab, accept shifts or work overtime. Because I don't want restaurant owners to increase bills because their Singaporean waiters demand a higher salary. Because foreigners can do many jobs as well as Singaporeans but are willing to work harder and longer for less pay.
lower wages meaning lower cost of living? maybe for the rich and middle classes. it certainly dont make sense for the lower30-40% of Singaporeans.
lower wages meaning lower standard of living for the btm 30-40% of singaporeans!!! these are group of ppl that will feel the tsunami waves of foreign talent into singapore.
eat more ba chor mee and not oxford mushroom to better understand singapore. -
I guessed some of these foreigners might not want to stay in Spore after working here.
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I know a handful of good foreign peeps who thave worked here..Originally posted by will4:I guessed some of these foreigners might not want to stay in Spore after working here. Interestingly, more than half of them were of the opinion that Singapore was not a good place for Singaporeans to work and live.. and out of those who were offered Singapore citizenship, none of them accepted, saying they had a better deal as PR -
According to a minister's speech on Spore being an extraordinary country, 150000 locals have moved to other countries n the figure will double in a decade.Originally posted by spinsugar:I know a handful of good foreign peeps who thave worked here.. Interestingly, more than half of them were of the opinion that Singapore was not a good place for Singaporeans to work and live.. and out of those who were offered Singapore citizenship, none of them accepted, saying they had a better deal as PR
The idea of having foreign professionals becoming PR n later encouraging them to becoming a citizen will boost the population. The subsidy for PR will be reduced so as to encourage PR become citizen. -
Their staying here is secondary. Even if they did, how many would want to take up citizenship here?Originally posted by will4:I guessed some of these foreigners might not want to stay in Spore after working here.
Why settle for being the wife if you get the better deal as the cocubine?