USA has Martin Luther King, S. Africa has Mandela.......
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Myanmar has Aung San Suu Kyi, India has Gandhi.
Can Singapore proclaim to have Chee Soon Juan? -
NO!!!Originally posted by Rock^Star:Myanmar has Aung San Suu Kyi, India has Gandhi.
Can Singapore proclaim to have Chee Soon Juan?
Hell NO!!! -
Why? How is he different from the rest?Originally posted by Hogzilla:NO!!!
Hell NO!!!
Pls reply these two qns....... -
sg have FI
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Dr chee is a trouble maker
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I want Mr Chiam
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Either Chiam or Lim... no Chee... he's a joker.
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x2Originally posted by mhcampboy:I want Mr Chiam -
It seemed Dr Chee simply liked to argue for the sake of argument.
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But he has done so much for democracy for Singaporeans (or has he?). And he campaigns for free speech and brings up the shortcomings of our govt in his books and speeches.
Doesn't he deserve to be ranked amongs the Mandelas and Gandhis? -
no no.Originally posted by Rock^Star:But he has done so much for democracy for Singaporeans (or has he?). And he campaigns for free speech and brings up the shortcomings of our govt in his books and speeches.
Doesn't he deserve to be ranked amongs the Mandelas and Gandhis?
no way~ -
If only he's as serious like the opposition.Originally posted by Rock^Star:But he has done so much for democracy for Singaporeans (or has he?). And he campaigns for free speech and brings up the shortcomings of our govt in his books and speeches.
Doesn't he deserve to be ranked amongs the Mandelas and Gandhis? -
Have u guys read his books or even seen his speeches? Do they connect with you?
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I daresay most who dismiss Chee as a clown have not listened to his speeches, been at his rallies or read his books. One would be surprised if only they bothered to scratch the surface.
The government has done a very good job at portraying Chee as a madman in the media. It doesn't help that Chee is more of an activist than a politician.. neither does he have a good camera face, and that makes it easy to take unflattering photos of him. -
I only have heard part of his rallies, read part of his books.
I wouldn't say all make sense to me, some are just too far-fetched, and seems a little like fantasy, a bit out of the world.
Not all that I've read or heard give me this feeling though... it's just that some... -
pls lah.. he deserve to be ranked together with steven lim and xia xue lah.....even steven lim is more yandao than him lor ( knn i never thought i will ever say that)Originally posted by Rock^Star:But he has done so much for democracy for Singaporeans (or has he?). And he campaigns for free speech and brings up the shortcomings of our govt in his books and speeches.
Doesn't he deserve to be ranked amongs the Mandelas and Gandhis?
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Out of so many, I only heard of India Gandhi.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Myanmar has Aung San Suu Kyi, India has Gandhi.
Can Singapore proclaim to have Chee Soon Juan?
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That's alright, try to wikipedia them. These are very interesting characters.Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:Out of so many, I only heard of India Gandhi. -
The difference between the Mandelas, Ghandhis, Walesas and Chee is the end-product.Originally posted by Rock^Star:But he has done so much for democracy for Singaporeans (or has he?). And he campaigns for free speech and brings up the shortcomings of our govt in his books and speeches.
Doesn't he deserve to be ranked amongs the Mandelas and Gandhis?
Those 3 have seen their actions result in the demise of tyrants/colonial masters - Chee's hasn't... -
That, in truth, is a problem with this society indeed. For all the first-worldness about this place, you'd be appalled to learn how some folks actually believe everything this regime's mouthpieces churn out...Originally posted by spinsugar:I daresay most who dismiss Chee as a clown have not listened to his speeches, been at his rallies or read his books. One would be surprised if only they bothered to scratch the surface.
The government has done a very good job at portraying Chee as a madman in the media. It doesn't help that Chee is more of an activist than a politician.. neither does he have a good camera face, and that makes it easy to take unflattering photos of him. -
i agreeOriginally posted by spinsugar:I daresay most who dismiss Chee as a clown have not listened to his speeches, been at his rallies or read his books. One would be surprised if only they bothered to scratch the surface.
The government has done a very good job at portraying Chee as a madman in the media. It doesn't help that Chee is more of an activist than a politician.. neither does he have a good camera face, and that makes it easy to take unflattering photos of him. -
Off Topic: No offence to 'walesa', but the real Lech Wa³êsa didn't exactly make a great president while he was in office.
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Gandhi had proved that the powerless had power and that force of arms would not forever prevail against force of spirit
Let CSJ talk the talk. Then thereÂ’s more for opposition and ruling parties to discuss and debate.
HeÂ’s smarter now. His recent speeches are supported by figures.
I guessed these are facts .So far, no one has come out to debunk him. -
If you must mock my statement in the other thread, and grind CSJ into the dust, at least have some sense of decency and respect to know something from History that characterised the struggles of those names you have mentioned in this thread and in your opening statement.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Myanmar has Aung San Suu Kyi, India has Gandhi.
Can Singapore proclaim to have Chee Soon Juan?
Singaporeans should be proud that besides Chee Soon Juan, there were also ordinary Singaporeans who were accused by LKY 'to be Communists, but with no legal charges ever filed to allow evidence to be produced to expose the accused acts of advocating armed overthrow of a legally elected government'.
Those who were incarcerated from Singapore society were ordinary people which included Barisan Sosialis Member of Parliament Chia Thye Poh (32 years), Said Zahari (17 years); and there was the 'Marxist Plotters' who were all professionals like Teo Soh Lung (2 years) - a political activist supporting JBJ, and other fellow legal councillors active in the social movement of the Catholic Church, all conveniently rounded up based on the 1950 Communist Ghost Story.
All are now without any political voices - as their Political Rights have been annulled.
Is Aung San Suu Kyi any more effective against the Myanmar Military Regime - who has strong working relations with the Singapore Government - when comparing her efforts to that of Chee Soon Juan ? Are they not of equal status in their struggle to achieve Democracy for their own community ?
Why did the efforts of Martijn Luther King and Mandela paid off in the USA and in South Africa respectively ? Did both achieve the end results of their respective struggles without any similar sacrifices to personal comfort and security; and the bigger sacrifices made by their families ?
Both were able to succeed due to a ground swell up of mass support from the local and world communities, that took actions to retaliate against the prevailing obnoxious systems that suppressed and deny Basic Political Rights.
When the World was ignorant to the excesses of apartheid policies, it enabled the White Elitist Regime to give more Extra-Ordinary perks to their minority White Community, who had emigrated into this Region as early European Explorers escaping economic hardships in their original homeland. While the minority White Elites enjoy their 'Extra-Ordinary Rights, they oppressed the majority number of South Africans native inhabitants
What caused the World to be awaken to the abuses against the majority sector of a South African Population ?
Was it not the political debates that went beyond the shores of South Africa so as to garner World Opinions to put pressure on a Government that ruthlessly and arrogantly ignore the Basic Political Rights that the majority are entitled ?
Much publicity was given to Mandela's incarceration but little was said of his crime of detonating a bomb while being a political activists to overthrow the Apartheid Government.
Was Mandela any smarter for being caught after detonating a bomb, while Chee purposefully created situations to expose the raw and abusive use of power by the Ruling Party, so as to discredit them to World ?
Why should you give more respect to a convicted criminal, more than you would give to Chee Soon Juan - who has been falsely accused ?
Are you simply following the general opinion in admiring Mandela, and enjoying the safety in numbers ?
If anything, it simply show your type who will be at the sideline and watch the struggle take place, and when success is achieved will congratulate yourself for having stood on the "Right Side".
It seems another carpet-beggar has surfaced from the woodwork of Singaporean Society - and will pander the rich and successful, and will deride all efforts to change as too disrupting to the status quo - even at the expense of gross injustice to Society.
If we were to look at the Politics of South Korea, which was under a strict Military Regime since the end of the Korean War, a democratic revolution only occurred after the assassination of the Park Chung Hee. His successor was no less a Dictator, as much as rules were being relaxed for a looser political environment.
All this while - since the rule of Korea by a willful first Korean dictatorial President Syngman Rhee, who was overthrown by a military coup and replaced by Korean strongman General Park Chung Hee - there was the single Quixotic efforts of a Korean Democrat named Kim Dae Jung; and like Chee Soon Juan, Kim Dae Jung was constantly butting his head against these Dictators, and were repeatedly inprisoned for long periods .
It took two Democratic Revolution before South Koreans were able to regain their Political Rights - to give their loudest voice in protest to any unpopular policies that are implemented by the Government.
Singaporeans could not even start a whimper to protest the obscene wage increases that this Government gave to itself, let alone to the absurd reasons given for the increases to GST.
Are you one of those disguised puppets planted in the various forums to sow seeds of ridicule to any efforts by the likes of the present or future CSJs; and to surreptiously encourage resignation to the present political status quo ?
Why deride the efforts of a local Chee Soon Juan and elevate the seemingly endless and aimless struggles by Aung San Suu Chi to that of Mandela or Martijn Luther King ?
LKY's actions towards his political opponents in the past and present, are no better than that of Mugabe in Zimbabwe.
Look up the banned film of Zahari's 17 years and listen to what is said of one who had been falsely incarcerated, then we should condemn all those who dare to lie to maintain a false image.
Those who dare to speak up should be given the support, and we should challenge and expose those who make innocuous remarks that continue the snowball effects of dampening the process opening up Singapore Political Scene.
Chia Thye Poh had given 32 years of his life in prison as he had stubbornly refused to accept the rules of release imposed by LKY - that is to confirm a lie that he had advocated an armed struggle to overthrow the legitimate government of Singapore.
Chee Soon Juan is against this Government for all the reasons that this Speaker's Corner has discussed in various threads, he may have his own methods, mannerism, strategies, tactics, plans - all of which can only be seen if we can have an insight to the workings of his mind.
One can achieve this by reading his books and even engage him in a political debate, and have the opportunity to measure the person for what he is, instead of making innocuous remarks and general statements based on bias and prejudiced images that have been purposefully angled and slanted.
Adolf Hitler was an expert in good PR and worked the ground into a feverish goosestomping tempo till no one listened to his high pitched dangerous message, but all present were totally mesmerised by him as The Messenger.
So much for those enchanted with images - better stick to comics. -
Dear Atobe,
good historical summaries you have there. Unfortunately, the purpose of my thread is to see "which country is proud enough to claim that they have which activist".
I'm not even measuring the success of those individuals here. Thus, to insist that comparing Aung San Suu Kyi with Mandela and King is a mistake, is unnecessary.
The Burmese have a repressive regime and they support Aung for her efforts. They are proud to have her as their voice. People (or races) in the various countries that I have mentioned are proud to claim that they have these activists. So here's the key: Are Singaporeans proud to claim they have CSJ? (Read my first post "Can S'porean's proclaim to have CSJ?")
Aung had intervention from the US govt, what about Chee? He does not have strong international recognition overseas, much less at home.
Yes, this thread was inspired by thoughts from the other but I just want to do a ground survey. It has nothing to do with mocking you. I suggest you stop taking my views so personally.